Pulse Lasers and Targeting Computers

[Azathoth]

I miss them.  The Viper was one of my favorite Mechs.  I never really understood why Targeting Computers aren't just a special ability that gives -1 to TN.  I mean, Basic Fire Control does the opposite, so it's not like there is no precedent for a special ability making a permanent adjustment to attacks. 

As for Pulse Lasers, I'd love to see a special ability like SRM, LRM, and AC, where it is just Pulse (x/x/x) and you can use those lower damage values instead of your normal damage values for a -2 to TN.  Heck, there are plenty of mechs that only use Pulse weapons who should get the bonus all the time.  I know the mech's base damage would be lower to compensate, but it would be worth it and a nice option.

Anyway, not really a rant; more of a wish list.  What do you all think?  Would these be too powerful or a nice tactical option when picking units?

[Col.Hengist]

You can still use tc and pulse lasers. You just can't target a specific location.

[nckestrel]

You can still use tc and pulse lasers. You just can't target a specific location.

He's referring to Alpha Strike, where there are no pulse or targeting computers at all.

[Cambo]

He's referring to Alpha Strike, where there are no pulse or targeting computers at all.

The effects of Targeting Comps and Pulses are taken into effect though, they're just rolled into the damage amount.  You have to consider that both those bonuses only affect some of the weapons.  Take for example a hypothetical Vulture Prime that has a targeting computer.  It would have Pulse weapons, and a Targeting computer that would help target those lasers, but it also has the 2 LRM 20's that aren't effected by either a pulse or tarComp bonus. 

The Vulture Prime has base damage of 4/4/4 and weapon abilities of LRM 1/1/2 and IF2.  IF2 is exclusively for Indirect Fire (That almost nobody uses), and the LRM ability is basically for Ammo tracking on campaigns.   (Remember that abilities are subtracted from the damage amount when they come into play in AS as opposed to the old BF rules that added the ability).   If your potential pulse/tarComp rule was added in for a regular non LRM/IF ability attack, how would you reflect that the LRM part of the 4/4/4 damage values doesn't get the plus 1/2?  (As a Vulture pilot I usually fire 1LPL + 2 LRM's to maintain heat, how do you reflect that?)

Two rolls you say- but...

From my inferences of questioning the AS rules it appear the whole guiding principle of AS is "One Roll to Rule them All" that's why you can't do physicals AND weapons fire in the same turn... that would be 2 separate rolls (which also means nobody uses the physicals anymore... at my games this is allowed as a house rule).  The core design principle of AS is a single roll for all attacks, one roll per unit, then the turn is done.

Yes the +1/+2's would be nice, but would mean multiple rolls, so they compromised and rolled the ability into the damage potential...  Yes this gimps the ability a little bit, but it was sacrificed in the name of round speed, and you still get some positives out of it.

[Col.Hengist]

He's referring to Alpha Strike, where there are no pulse or targeting computers at all.

 Ah. I just noticed this is the alpha strike section.

[M4cr0Dutch]

As for Pulse Lasers, I'd love to see a special ability like SRM, LRM, and AC, where it is just Pulse (x/x/x) and you can use those lower damage values instead of your normal damage values for a -2 to TN. 

I agree about the pulse lasers, this would be a great idea. The only issue is having to add more to the record sheet, but I think it would be worth it.

I would like to see targeting computers grant the Variable-Range Targeting (VRT, page 103) special ability. Rolling the effect of targeting computers and pulse lasers into damage doesn't work at the moment because the PV values are out by so much. Clan Mechs with this equipment still have a lot of trouble hitting so rarely take advantage of their damage bonus.

[Cambo]

It's just an idea, and one I haven't tested yet, but I've always wondered if maybe the equipment that uses Clantech should have their own rangebands...  ie. an extra hex or two, or 2-4" for each band to reflect range bracket difference the clans love so much.

[Greywind]

By the time you get done adjusting for this item or that item or this tech base, you might as well go back to playing BattleTech.

[Azathoth]

I'm not trying to make things more complex, and I'm certainly not suggesting that a mech with both Pulse and LRM could use both abilities in the same turn.  In fact, mechs with only 1 or 2 pulse weapons buried in a list of other types shouldn't even get this ability.  I'm primarily suggesting this for mechs like the Wraith, Nightsky, or Rifleman IIC that only have pulse weapons, or mechs like the Viper which has all pulse weapons except for a machine gun.  Same thing with the targeting computer - only mechs where all weapons can take advantage should get it to keep things simple.

Of course, this would mean reviewing each mech with that equipment on a case by case basis.  I think that type of effort is worth it to support Alpha Strike, but I understand that may not be a feasible request. 

[t9nv3]

I would love to see something like this. I've been thinking that the game needs one attack that can deal specifically with movement modifiers. A special pulse or targeting computer value at lower damage that specifically negates movement modifiers would be great. This would differentiate pulse lasers from the AC special that gives a universal -2. This attack would deliver 1-2 damage depending on the weapons available to the mech. It certainly wont nuke any of the fast light units in one shot, but it'll give just add that extra tactical dimension. Seems to me that all the game is really lacking is one good hard counter to high movement modifiers. Right now arty is your best bet for bringing the numbers down, but i think the game needs one other option to really balance high mov. 

[Hellraiser]

The only real compromise I see would have been to give a different range band/damage grouping for each type of weapon.


So for example.
Archer-2R would have an LRM band that is 2-2-2
And have a LAS/DE band that is 1-1-0
This would reduce their roles down to 2 instead of 4 on an alpha strike.

Using the above mentioned MadDog-Prime you would have an LRM & Pulse band at 2-2-2 & 3-3-2 respectively.

Using the Orion-2M you would have 3 groupings.
LRM = 1-1-1
Gauss/DB = 2-2-2
Pulse = 2-0-0

You would have to come up with a new way of managing heat.
Off the top of my head I'd give each mech a "Heat Rating" for every 5 heat it can vent, rounded.
Then rate each weapon group by its heat/5 & rounded.  You can fire up to you vent & cause "Overheat" under the penalties we have for "Overheat" now based on how much you go over by.

So in the MadDog-Prime case your heat for the "Pulse" bracket would be 6.   Your LRMs would be 2.  And your "Vent" rating would be 5.  So firing the Pulse gets you an automatic penalty the next turn.

This way things like LBX, Pulse, TC all get their bonus to hit & things like Ostscout-7J's are not godsends anymore.

Basically this method kind of treats it all like Aerotech groupings with like weapons in bays & bays firing all or nothing so its simplified w/o being gimped.

[iamfanboy]

What about having PLS similar to something already in the system: namely, FLK? Only instead of having the bonus to hit airborne targets, change it to hit ground targets only.

The whole principle behind FLK is that even if you 'miss', as long as it's a near-miss, you still deal damage; seems fairly intuitive to apply it to pulse lasers...

This is just a thought, though, and my feelings on the matter of fast vehicles is pretty clear: it's a problem with the points system, NOT the game system. Speed is just way undervalued when applying BV2.0 to Alpha Strike.

[Hellraiser]

You could have PLS being a separate stat, like AC or IDF, which IMHO is what it should be.
Anyone who has played AT knows the bays go by a bit faster compared to separate rolls for every weapon.
That is what I would have done w/ AS/QS instead of just a single roll.  It would have also allowed you to split fire.
I get what they were going for with speed, I think its just dumbed things down TOO much to the point that many people don't care for it.  I like the idea, just wouldn't have gone so far with it.


Speed isn't undervalued IMHO.  Per se.
The issue is that according to AS defensive modifiers, Terrain is nonexistent.
Speed is no more powerful, AFAIK, than if you were playing on a frying pan.
The issue is, most of us play on mixed terrain which ends up slowing down lights so that they don't get their full potential every turn.
Which IMHO isn't an issue of BV but more just us being used to catching that light at some point & squashing it.
If anything, AS is showing us the full potential of a light mech that we rarely see in standard CBT games.

[jairb]

Speed isn't undervalued IMHO.  Per se.
The issue is that according to AS defensive modifiers, Terrain is nonexistent.
Speed is no more powerful, AFAIK, than if you were playing on a frying pan.

I'm not so sure I agree with "Terrain is nonexistant."  Partial Cover, Concealment from Woods, Smoke, what other Terrain effects am I missing from TW in AS?

[Azathoth]

I'm not so sure I agree with "Terrain is nonexistant."  Partial Cover, Concealment from Woods, Smoke, what other Terrain effects am I missing from TW in AS?

Water!  Yeah, I feel even without touching advanced terrain rules there are plenty of good options.