Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I just asked this question earlier today in the New Releases Thread

Do you have a link, quiaff ? Cannot seem to find it 8)

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Do you have a link, quiaff ? Cannot seem to find it 8)

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/upcoming-releases-xxvi-unboxing-days/msg1907233/#msg1907233

[Istal_Devalis]

A little bit in the Hellhound/Hellcat BattleMech

And lots of dreaming about orbital bombardment of Luthien and New Samarkand

Lots and LOTS of dreaming.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/upcoming-releases-xxvi-unboxing-days/msg1907233/#msg1907233

Thank you

[parable]

Lots and LOTS of dreaming.

For in these dreams, what visions may come?  Thinking about it now, a couple whiskies in, I think perhaps that aspect of Clan Nova Cat helps explain its popularity.  While we wish to return to the Star League and we of course honor the Kerenskys' ideals...we ultimately trust in visions and prophecy, which are inherently forward-looking.  Sure, other Clans enacted their changes and adaptations better, they never really asked nor acted upon the question, "what might be next for us?"  Our Clan made mistakes along the way, but we always actively tried to change things.

[cmerwin]

Our Clan made mistakes along the way, but we always actively tried to change things.

I like this. And this is also why the Nova Cat cannot die.

[Istal_Devalis]

Yeah, well, maybe we could afford to not stir the hornets nest quite as much if we ever get a reprieve. :D

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Yeah, well, maybe we could afford to not stir the hornets nest quite as much if we ever get a reprieve. :D

Maybe the Ghost Bears can commit less war crimes in the future too…

[cmerwin]

Just as Clan Nova Cat always looks to the future, we also are aware of our past. The Ways of Seeing teach us to be mindful of how the threads of the past intertwine with the strands of the present and the future.


I'm not affiliated in any way, but recently Sven van der Plank posted a fantastic BattleTech lore video on YouTube entitled "Star League Civil War: Rim Worlds Republic Invasion". The video features a couple of nice segments of our founding Khan, Khan Philip Drummond: father of Khan Sandra Rosse (praise the name of she who gave us the Ways of Seeing).

If you haven't seen it yet and want to get insight as to why the Great Father valued our founding Khan, it's worth a watch. Also gives nice insight into the disillusionment the SLDF felt after Operation CHIEFTAIN and the Hegemony Campaign. Also has some great voice-overs from others (including Tex).


Thanks @SvenVanDerPlank for the shout-out to our great Khan!

[Rncavenger]

Maybe the Ghost Bears can commit less war crimes in the future too…

 What war crimes do Bears have? War crimes against Nova Cats do not count. Nobody remembers much about them. Both among writers and fans and among the characters inside the universe. Why remember the genocide of hundreds of thousands or even millions of civilians? Several times. And no one ever answered. An ordinary event. And it was mostly the good guys who did it. Bears, Yori Kurita. It's not tragedies like Kentares or Edo to remember it often.

[Geg]

The real question...  When Kisho comes back.  Will you back the...

• Spirit Cats

or the

• Nova Cats

Maybe turning control over to a non-Bloodnameble Mystic is what will get Rikkard to finally get his Bloodname.

[cmerwin]

The real question...  When Kisho comes back.  Will you back the...

• Spirit Cats

or the

• Nova Cats

Maybe turning control over to a non-Bloodnameble Mystic is what will get Rikkard to finally get his Bloodname.

Nova Cats are Nova Cats. If the traditions of the Oathmaster and the Ways of Seeing are followed, and the Bloodname properly earned, then that warrior is a Nova Cat. I would love to see Rikkard win the Drummond, Rosse, or Leroux Bloodname.

For my own fire dancing ceremonies - and I think what Kisho ultimately accepted - the Spirit Cats *are* Nova Cats. And I don't care if we call ourselves Nova Cats, Spirit Cats, or something else - as long we are true to our Vision - like both Rikkard and Kisho, then we are Cats - true to General Kerensky's Vision.

[Rncavenger]

I agree with Cmerwin. Personally, it makes no difference to me. If the Clan is called Spirit Cats, but at the same time the warriors will have "nova cat" as the second name and in the name of the clusters - I'm OK with that. The main thing is that there would be legal succession. Genes, technology, tradition, culture. Yes, and from the point of view of "revival". Many are dissatisfied with the revival of factions. Spirit Cats do not need to be revived, they are already here. Strengthen them with all the surviving Cats with genes and technologies and we will get a full-fledged Clan of Cats with a slightly changed name. Which would be logical from the point of view of the storyline. Remember the visions of Kev Ross and why he created Spirit Cats at all. The only thing that does not fit into such a plot is the story of Kisho himself and the caste of mystics. In the Clan Protectorate, they are simply not needed in terms of their history.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

I agree with Cmerwin. Personally, it makes no difference to me. If the Clan is called Spirit Cats, but at the same time the warriors will have "nova cat" as the second name and in the name of the clusters - I'm OK with that. The main thing is that there would be legal succession. Genes, technology, tradition, culture. Yes, and from the point of view of "revival". Many are dissatisfied with the revival of factions. Spirit Cats do not need to be revived, they are already here. Strengthen them with all the surviving Cats with genes and technologies and we will get a full-fledged Clan of Cats with a slightly changed name. Which would be logical from the point of view of the storyline. Remember the visions of Kev Ross and why he created Spirit Cats at all. The only thing that does not fit into such a plot is the story of Kisho himself and the caste of mystics. In the Clan Protectorate, they are simply not needed in terms of their history.

If Mystic Kisho reappears I have a feeling that a few things might happen.

A) Alaric will grant him a new bloodname house "Kurita" (To really thumb the eye of the Dragon)
B) Kisho will offer, under the name of Alaric, a union with the Spirit Cats for a reborn Nova Cat Clan in exchange for IlClan loyalty and the entire genetic repository.

Or perhaps Kisho will just show up in the Clan Protectorate, the two will merge into Spirit Cats, and they'll stay away from the IlClan. But it doesn't seem like TPTB are going to let that happen.

[Dragon Cat]

The real question...  When Kisho comes back.  Will you back the...

• Spirit Cats

or the

• Nova Cats

Maybe turning control over to a non-Bloodnameble Mystic is what will get Rikkard to finally get his Bloodname.

Considering they are in the FWL the place of great debates... its almost appropriate the Nova Cats are there

Honestly although I'm first a Nova Cat and second a Spirit Cat reading about how the Nova Cats changed from the Jihad to Extinction I'd lean more towards the Spirit Cats now

Argue all you want that they are the same the Spirit Cats carry the Spirit of the first Clan that threw itself into the Jihads grinder, the one that arguably paid the most for their efforts

The Spirit Cats are (at their core) the descendants of the best the Clan had in its most trying times

I'd argue if the Clan were to be recognised by its fellow Clans a change is needed

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I think moving away from the Combine and the Dominion would be the move. Regardless of whose fault it is, that area of space has not been kind to them. Black Dragon, Kurita proper and the Ghost Bears all have various issues with them.

[cmerwin]

I think moving away from the Combine and the Dominion would be the move. Regardless of whose fault it is, that area of space has not been kind to them. Black Dragon, Kurita proper and the Ghost Bears all have various issues with them.

Agreed. I was about to say that Khan Drummond's home planet was Apollo, but that appears to currently be in the Hell's Horses Occupation Zone.

Maybe someplace out anti-spinward in the Lupus Cloud?

Or even out past the Chainelane Isles where some of those old abandoned systems like Wark and Trinity are in the Deep Periphery?

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Agreed. I was about to say that Khan Drummond's home planet was Apollo, but that appears to currently be in the Hell's Horses Occupation Zone.

Maybe someplace out anti-spinward in the Lupus Cloud?

Or even out past the Chainelane Isles where some of those old abandoned systems like Wark and Trinity are in the Deep Periphery?

I think they need to stay within the Inner Sphere proper. Alaric was willing to restore the Smoke Jags, I would assume he would be willing to do the same for the Nova Cats, both of whom were ‘illegally’ Annihilated. One can assume with the precarious position of the ilClan Wolves they’d want allies close by.

Also I don’t know how well of their navy is. Who knows if they could even transport enough stuff to get that far.

[Jellico]

I feel I have to throw in that the Sea Foxes get a say. The Clan Protectorate is rules by two Clans. If the Foxes pulled the plug thigs get exciting.

[cmerwin]

I think they need to stay within the Inner Sphere proper. Alaric was willing to restore the Smoke Jags, I would assume he would be willing to do the same for the Nova Cats, both of whom were ‘illegally’ Annihilated. One can assume with the precarious position of the ilClan Wolves they’d want allies close by.

Also I don’t know how well of their navy is. Who knows if they could even transport enough stuff to get that far.

You bring up a couple of interesting, and I think, important points. True, we were "illegally" Annihilated, but we *were* very legally Abjured. Sure, Alaric can snap a finger and say we "had the right idea, at the wrong time," or something. But the other Clans might have very strong feelings about us coming back into the fold.

In a similar vein, I guess a lot would depend on how the remaining Cats feel about still being Clan. We tossed our hat in with the (2nd) Star League because we believed it was the right thing to do, it fulfilled Kerensky's vision, and fulfilled the visions of our leadership. But the treatment we received during the Nova Cat Abjuration _might_ give us some bitter feelings towards the other Clans. A kind of "Hey! Acknowledge that what we did back then was *right*!"

In terms of our (previously very large) navy, I think very little of it remains, and I am also not sure which group has what (I'm still updating the page on Sarna on that). But I think you are absolutely right, there is very little. All we know is that Kisho had enough to have a mini-Exodus and take a sampling of the whole Clan with him, but I assume it was a very very small sampling.

[parable]

Honestly, the size of our navy (IIRC, once described as second largest in both the IS and Clan space) feels miswritten.  I think it comes from works that muddied JumpShip, WarShip, and DropShip numbers.  We always had a good navy but I find it hard to believe that we outnumbered most of the great houses and probably Clan Snow Raven. 
Kisho did abscond with copies of all our Bloodheritages though, so if he comes back, he could conceivably resurrect the Clan.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

In a nut shell, what's going on with Kisho ?

[Dragon Cat]

Honestly, the size of our navy (IIRC, once described as second largest in both the IS and Clan space) feels miswritten.  I think it comes from works that muddied JumpShip, WarShip, and DropShip numbers.  We always had a good navy but I find it hard to believe that we outnumbered most of the great houses and probably Clan Snow Raven. 
Kisho did abscond with copies of all our Bloodheritages though, so if he comes back, he could conceivably resurrect the Clan.

They had the 2nd largest in the Clans before the invasion after it well it kind of fell apart piece by piece

The Nova Cats biggest naval problem was 2 fold first it was a Cruiser navy (nothing bigger than a Black Lion)

2nd they didn't have a portable shipyard

The Trial of Possession for the Rasalhague ripped the heart out of the navy and then the Jihad finished it off

What the Nova Cats needed was to capture or trade for a Faslane and win the Rasalhague trial if they'd done those 2 things the Combine might have thought twice and the Nova Cats could have probably moved to the Republic

Unfortunately the Jihad sunk any such hope as WarShips were lined up and sunk in glorious fashion. Honestly I didn't mind that it was that the infrastructure was never rebuilt

Even post jihad a decent pocket warship would have been good for the Cats and stopped Irece from happening so easily

[Jellico]

A cruiser navy is plenty adequate. Typically as written a battleship in a Clan navy was balanced with a destroyer. As a rule battleships were not superior enough over a cruiser to compensate for the destroyer.

The issues with the large Nova Cat navy come back to one of the Field Manuals listing a random large number (40 comes to mind) without looking at what the rest of the Clans were getting. The initial solution was dozens of Carracks. When it was pointed out what dozens of Carracks could do we got the Carrack (Merchant).

[cmerwin]

They had the 2nd largest in the Clans before the invasion after it well it kind of fell apart piece by piece

The Nova Cats biggest naval problem was 2 fold first it was a Cruiser navy (nothing bigger than a Black Lion)

2nd they didn't have a portable shipyard

The Trial of Possession for the Rasalhague ripped the heart out of the navy and then the Jihad finished it off

What the Nova Cats needed was to capture or trade for a Faslane and win the Rasalhague trial if they'd done those 2 things the Combine might have thought twice and the Nova Cats could have probably moved to the Republic

Unfortunately the Jihad sunk any such hope as WarShips were lined up and sunk in glorious fashion. Honestly I didn't mind that it was that the infrastructure was never rebuilt

Even post jihad a decent pocket warship would have been good for the Cats and stopped Irece from happening so easily

Yeah, it's really hard to say and I think we just don't have enough information, as in all things Nova Cat. First, we had a pretty large navy all things considered, even if they weren't McKenna class WarShips. But I would argue, second, the Nova Cats always prided aerospace assets, so high maneuverability WarShips may have been a good thing. (It has *always* baffled me that Khan Leroux, one of the greatest aerospace jockies the Clans ever produced, constantly bid away his aerospace).

Agreed on the portable shipyard - but as I have argued earlier - we really have no idea how much we lost once the Abjuration was declared. How much we couldn't bring with us to the IS. The Ghost Bears had WAAAAAAYYYY more time to relocate to the IS than we did, and under much less stressful conditions. Hence, orbital shipyards. And the Kuritans weren't about to give us anything. We were a speedbump for the Combine, as later proved out. (If I am not mistaken, Minoru complains to Omiko, who complains to Victor, about how the Nova Cats are being treated unfairly immediately after relocating).

To be honest, the descriptions of New Barcella in Path of Glory kind of shocked me with how much the Cats were able to rescue and rebuild from the Homeworlds in so little time. Until I understood how much the Bears were able to bring with them to Rasalhague. Post-Abjuration, the Cats were always set up for failure. The fact that we were able to be as resilient and honorable as we were afterward is a testament to our people.

As usual - to put it in an old Terran dialect: "We done gots ourselves screwed". So I suppose we agree, although I think the Cats never had a chance, through no fault of our own to do what's right and be good at doing it.

[Jellico]

To be honest, the descriptions of New Barcella in Path of Glory kind of shocked me with how much the Cats were able to rescue and rebuild from the Homeworlds in so little time. Until I understood how much the Bears were able to bring with them to Rasalhague. Post-Abjuration, the Cats were always set up for failure. The fact that we were able to be as resilient and honorable as we were afterward is a testament to our people.

When Path of Glory (3063) was published the only confirmed Sphere built CGB Mech was the Ursus, later established as 3059 and the first Mech they built. Arcas is 3061.
Executioner and Fire Moth aren't confirmed until 3071 (TRO3050U).

It puts some context around what the Bears and Cats were doing.

[parable]

When Path of Glory (3063) was published the only confirmed Sphere built CGB Mech was the Ursus, later established as 3059 and the first Mech they built. Arcas is 3061.
Executioner and Fire Moth aren't confirmed until 3071 (TRO3050U).

It puts some context around what the Bears and Cats were doing.

So we got to producing one of the premier (IMO) heavy Omnimechs, our titular Nova Cat, at the same time the Ghost Bears were building an (admittedly quite good) second-line Battlemech in the Ursus?  Now that you've highlighted it, that's an interesting disparity.  Outside of it simply being oversight, I could see that the Nova Cat, having lost galaxies, millions of civilians, and confined to a few worlds, would focus on their strength of arms and offensive ability.  The Ghost Bear, having relatively peacefully and uneventfully both annexed a large population and moved wholesale into the Inner Sphere, would focus on infrastructure, logistics, and defense.  The Nova Cat, an implacable sniper, fits CNC.  The Ursus, a mixed-tech defender, fits CGB.

[Jellico]

So we got to producing one of the premier (IMO) heavy Omnimechs, our titular Nova Cat, at the same time the Ghost Bears were building an (admittedly quite good) second-line Battlemech in the Ursus?  Now that you've highlighted it, that's an interesting disparity.  Outside of it simply being oversight, I could see that the Nova Cat, having lost galaxies, millions of civilians, and confined to a few worlds, would focus on their strength of arms and offensive ability.  The Ghost Bear, having relatively peacefully and uneventfully both annexed a large population and moved wholesale into the Inner Sphere, would focus on infrastructure, logistics, and defense.  The Nova Cat, an implacable sniper, fits CNC.  The Ursus, a mixed-tech defender, fits CGB.

If I am being honest a lot of it is the timing of the books. TRO3060 was 1998 when IS built Mechs first started showingup. TRO Project Phoenix was 2003. TRO3050U which the Bears rely heavily on was 2007. In the mean timeline had progressed from 3060 to 3071. For all we know GB construction started some time, probably after the Arcas and before 3071. There are some internal documents narrowing it down but they won't be made public. Another hint are the second line RATs in FM Warden Clans (3060) and Updates (3067). Very heavily SLDF tech suggesting the Brian Caches are being heavily utilised.

Ultimately we don't know. The Cats got a big burst of information around 3065ish. The Bears don't catch up till the 70s at which point the non Mech hints given have given them the industry for the craziness of the Jihad releases.

[Dragon Cat]

You could argue the Bears built an entire shipyard in that time

They also had a sizable Touman and were in the process of training locals

The Nova Cats on the other hand were crash building as much as they could trying to rebuild and piece a Touman together (lots and lots of variants of Mechs, new vehicles etc)

Although I know in reality it's how designs landed in the TROs it also fits the two factions exceptionally well. One is fighting for survival and relevance while the other is taking the slow nation building route

[cmerwin]

I could see that the Nova Cat, having lost galaxies, millions of civilians, and confined to a few worlds, would focus on their strength of arms and offensive ability.  The Ghost Bear, having relatively peacefully and uneventfully both annexed a large population and moved wholesale into the Inner Sphere, would focus on infrastructure, logistics, and defense.  The Nova Cat, an implacable sniper, fits CNC.  The Ursus, a mixed-tech defender, fits CGB.

Exactly. And a few worlds in a territory previously considered the "enemy" for centuries (even if we do have some Kuritan Bloodnames).

It was produced in 3059, as a result of our loss on Tukkayid (yes, we lost BOTH objectives, YET we were 1) KAMIKAZED! and 2) *still* managed to cause MORE materiel damage than any other Clan), by a Khan who had already seen that we needed to join the Star League and proceeds to enact that plan. And this omnimech carries the very name of our Clan.

While Ghost Bear quietly moves most of their Clan to their Founder's homeworlds.
(In sincere curiosity, because I don't remember and I don't see it on Sarna - how did the Bears vote regarding our Abjuration? For or Against?)

@parable - I think you've nailed it.