Author Topic: Much maligned mechs  (Read 6736 times)

WarGod

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Much maligned mechs
« on: 06 October 2014, 11:21:42 »
Some one once asked me to post my top ten maligned mechs.

after playing a few games over recent months here some of my summaries.  throw your two c-bills in as needed.

The Ostol:  honestly the only thing that kept me from using this mech was the orginal art.  But a 5/8 heavy cav design with all torso mounted weapons, has earn a special place in my cold black heart.  keep it moving at max speed, do not let it get pinned down, and when in doubt, charge.  If you can keep it screen from one Axis of fire the better. 

Now I've never been a fan of the loki, its just over gunned under sinked, and woefully under armored.
I finally used two in a scenario game a few months back.  not as pleasantly surprised as the ostol, but not as bad as I imagined.  Its now a staple in my clan ghost bear star.  2 Hellbringers, 2 arcas , and one griffin IIC. 

I used the primary, and the E.  To offset the rather pitiful armor, I keep them moving at max speed, and tried to get them into some type of cover from one axis of attack.  The tactic seemed to work rather well.  The E with the two large lasers, and LRM 10 did well opening holes, then I started using the HAG 20 to exploit the holes.  took awhile with the two 10 point whacks with the Large lasers, and the average of 6 to 7 missiles from the LRM 10, but once I got into to position to use the hag things go interesting.  The primary Barage firing the twin PPC's.  Fire two, fire one, and two ER mediums, seemed to do ok.  Using the Streak 6, and medium laser spam, proved effective.   The machine guns, ate a infantry platoon, and the A-pods helped when they attempted to swarm.  Between the ECM, and AMS it was difficult to bring all the really fun toys against it.  The targeting computer, helped alot with the loki moving at max speed.  I do have to say though managing the heat curve was not for the faint of heart.    Fire supported by two Vulture primes also helped.  I almost want to try the B with the guass,and LB=5 combo to see what happens.  Any thoughts or tactics I didn't use, or other uses for the loki is greatly appreciated.

.  the rifleman with the two AC/10s actualy did some cool things during a succession wars Game.  Expended its ammo fairly quickly, but with a veteran pilot it wrecked some shop.  I also tried a assassin,  the assassin only really good at harassing, and being a nuisance.   I do have to give credit where its due, the few times it connected with the medium laser, srm, lrm combo it plinked enough armor to allow the riflemen to breach armor.  The Shadow hawk, between the AC/5 and LRM 5, also contributed to the harassment.   
The standard rifleman:  You have to push the heat curve quite a bit, not for the faint of heart.  Also any cover is your friend considering its rather light armor.  It’s a riflemen if your not pushing the red line your doing it wrong. 

The Quickdraw: fast for a heavy in it era, the 5a is nice.  However the bog standard quickdarw, makes for a nice platform.  Keep it jumping from cover to cover, and dump it rather anemic Lrm battery until the ammo is expended, then keep to the enemy 6, and fire medium lasers, and srm 4.  The variant with the 4 medium lasers in the front was rather nice.  Also use cover to screen one axis of fire from enemy units. 

Assassin:  like anyone else I hated the assassin not a bad little harasser in all honesty.  Keep jumping, use it missiles and stay out of easy fire arcs.  Assassin are great against conventional forces, with the right ammo load. 

The Dervish:  I pretty much place this mech as the king of all team players.

Clint:  6/9/6 mover with a AC/5.  Light on the armor department, but keep it moving, and fire away with the AC/5 .  Putting a veteran MechWarrior in the clint was rather interesting.  Not exactly the best at fighting other mechs unless it’ fighting one with equal or lesser weight.  Against bigger mechs do not get into slugging matches.  I use the PPC clint much the same way.

The Panther:  much hated.  Decent armor (more than the clint).  Jump jets, plus PPC allows it to work great as a sniper, best used in teams.    I fell in love with the 8Z it can jump, fire its large laser, and keep at it all day long.

The Crusader:  Huge ammo bomb yes, I had a lot of fun with mech.  Expended the LRMs, then go play rock’em sock’em robots with it.  There a tough choice between using the Srm-6 or kick, honestly while going into close combat I say blaze away. 

The Mauler:  Ok I seriously got nothing on this one.  Quad ac/2?  The older brother Daboku?  Had some interesting results using its Ac/2, and lrms to crash vtols, Aeros, and hovers.  Against mechs plink away and launch lrms.  When you get to large laser range, bracket fire.  2 L lasers, 1 large 3 ac/2 to keep heat manageable.  It’s a assault class mech, and a rather poor one, but as a team player its ok.

Cataphract:  ugly as sin and the standard 3039 model is actually respectable.  I originally hated the look of the cataphract until I actually got to play one.    2 10 point whacks, and a decent heat control?  This has became my go to new guy mech. 

The stinger:  yes I know the bugs are poor scout mechs in the current era.  Slow, under armored death traps.  The 5m however with it flamer, medium laser is rather interesting, throw in the ams and its not bad.  on a side not rapid fire machine guns rules makes the old 1r model a little more interesting. 

The hellspawn:  it’s a faster dervish.  6/9/6 with 2 lrm 10s, and a Ecm.   It’s a great team player, plus the 3 medium pulse lasers make it ok as discouraging battle armor.   Of course it has a XL, and no CASE equipment but I honestly like it, and was plesently surprised by the hell spawn.

Thanotos:  The base model I have heard bashed on numerous occasions.  Its not a Thor and never will be.  I like using it as intended a heavy cav mech great for exploiting gaps, it’s got just enough armor to jump in, blaze away and jump out to cool down.  The guardian ECM is just icing on the cake, and I’ve had fun fighting wobbies with this mech.  Jump in, mug the spotters, jump out. 

The Zeus: under armored for its class yes, under gunned compared to its peers yes.  What it can do is fire its 3 primary weapons All day long.  Or until the lrm ammo runs out.

Centurion:  Personally I love this mech.  The original was about as unimaginative, but solid as it gets.    Decent armor for its time, Ac/10 Lrm 10 combo has some nice overlap. 

So feel free to pipe, throw your two c-bills in.
« Last Edit: 06 October 2014, 11:31:54 by WarGod »
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2014, 11:35:44 »
Now I've never been a fan of the loki, its just over gunned under sinked, and woefully under armored.

I've been a fan of the Loki Prime for a long time. It's cheap as far as Clan heavy Omnis go, and for that price I end up with twin headcappers with above-average accuracy, and active defenses that make shooting back problematic. I keep it at long range to offset the armor, and use it as a sniper. The backup guns don't come into play at all until someone finally closes, at which point they make excellent finishers.

Quote
Clint:  6/9/6 mover with a AC/5.  Light on the armor department, but keep it moving, and fire away with the AC/5 .  Putting a veteran MechWarrior in the clint was rather interesting.  Not exactly the best at fighting other mechs unless it’ fighting one with equal or lesser weight.  Against bigger mechs do not get into slugging matches.

I recently played a backwoods militia vs. pirates scenario, and in games like that, I've learned that units with AC/5s are often the heavy hitters on the board. In such situations, combining that kind of firepower with the Clint's maneuverability makes for a lethal combination.

Quote
The stinger:  yes I know the bugs are poor scout mechs in the current era.  Slow, under armored death traps.  The 5m however with it flamer, medium laser is rather interesting, throw in the ams and its not bad.  on a side not rapid fire machine guns rules makes the old 1r model a little more interesting.

I LOVE the -5M Stinger. Not really suited for frontline combat, it's a great way to boost the capabilities of your militias, which is where you'll find most of those Stingers anyway. You keep all the ability of the original, but add a marked increase in durability vs. missile-heavy units. Absolutely lethal vs. SRM infantry, and in theory, you could even take one against a squad of earlier-model battle armors(the kinds that rely on SRMs to deal any damage outside 3 hexes) with reasonable odds of victory, or at least tying them up for a long time.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #2 on: 06 October 2014, 13:11:55 »
The Panther:  much hated.  Decent armor (more than the clint).  Jump jets, plus PPC allows it to work great as a sniper, best used in teams.    I fell in love with the 8Z it can jump, fire its large laser, and keep at it all day long.
Very few don't respect the Panther (other than the -10K).

It's a light 'Mech packing a PPC, and has typical speed (4/6 is about normal in IntroTech games). Like the Hollander from TRO:3055, it's a light with a heavy weapon, and useful to support light and medium weight units.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #3 on: 06 October 2014, 14:19:13 »
Cataphract - since the first time I saw it I've been in love with it. It's a great intro-tech mech. I really wanted to figure out how to get one into my Lyran force and finally did with the fedcom civil war.
 
 Crusader - I have loved this guy  since day 1. I used to glue toothpicks to it's head so it looked like the TRO image.

Panther - another one I really like. Who wouldnt like a ppc on a light, with srm critseekers.

 Zeus - what can I say... I'm Lyran. Swap out that ac5 and go old school with the ppc. Th3 TRO entry in the original 3025 is crap... Feedback from the ppc? Life is cheap, battlemechs aren't... Oh and the original intro date of before the Mackie? Please.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #4 on: 06 October 2014, 15:36:11 »
What  no WASP?????????
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #5 on: 07 October 2014, 06:37:05 »
I recently played a backwoods militia vs. pirates scenario, and in games like that, I've learned that units with AC/5s are often the heavy hitters on the board. In such situations, combining that kind of firepower with the Clint's maneuverability makes for a lethal combination.

In the SW era I've found the Clint to be a great scout hunter.  The PPC upgrade is good in theory - sort of a poor man's Wraith TR2 - but it lacks the armour to stand up to 3050's firepower.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #6 on: 07 October 2014, 10:33:58 »
I have never once used an Assassin.  It's just. . . unimpressive.  It's fast sure, but it has the smallest missile launchers available, and its 3050 variant drops one of those to stick an Artemis IV on an LRM-5. . . is that one ton worth an extra missile out of five?  Ugh.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #7 on: 07 October 2014, 10:48:24 »
I think a big part of the Assassin's problem is the name. People expect it to sneak up on someone and actually assassinate things, when it lacks the firepower for that, and that isn't its job anyway. If you want to improve your view of the Assassin and your combat record with it, scratch out the name, and write in Toddler on Crack. That should help.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #8 on: 08 October 2014, 01:47:20 »
...scratch out the name, and write in Toddler on Crack. That should help.

I call it the "does the Spider's job with more armor and options". It's the best scout/light harasser of 3025/3039 and its generally bad name is just nuts.

I'd put the Black Jack on the list, but people seem to hold it in higher regard these days. 10 years ago, I would have been laughed at calling it the best thing in 3025.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #9 on: 08 October 2014, 09:53:26 »
The blackjack's not bad , kind of bland though. Besides, every one knows the best mech of 3925/3039 is the Battlemaster  ;D ::)
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #10 on: 08 October 2014, 10:46:28 »
Very few don't respect the Panther (other than the -10K).

Count me among the very few.  I'm not an oldtech fan, where the Panther punches above expectation.  The Panther is terrible once SL tech hits the scene.  It wasn't until it finally discarded the 4/6/4 movement profile that it began to grudgingly sneek back into the modern battlefield.  The Wight should have killed the Panther off entirely.  I haaaaaate the Panther.

I like the Blackjack.  Something about a medium that tries to attack like a heavy.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #11 on: 08 October 2014, 16:09:28 »
The Garm is typically disliked in my experience. While having extra long range firepower in the form of the LBX is nice, most players I know dislike what it costs when compared to the Valkyrie-QD. In comparison, the Valkyrie gets armor that's nearly twice as strong, CASE, an Art IV system for its LRMs and an ammo-independent close quarters weapon. While the Garm is superior in unopposed long-range direct fire support, when used for indirect fire support it's inferior, and will be typically forced to retreat sooner when performing opposed direct fire support.

That said, the Garm can be a useful anti-air and anti-vehicle unit. Not perfect by any means, but usable. Still uglier than a bulldog licking urine off a stinging nettle though.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #12 on: 08 October 2014, 16:23:18 »
Gargoyle, the Clan Charger. This mech would have gotten a far better reputation if the primary and alt A config were switched around.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #13 on: 10 October 2014, 12:17:19 »
Gargoyle, the Clan Charger. This mech would have gotten a far better reputation if the primary and alt A config were switched around.

Fluff on how configurations were "ranked" is kind of grey.  Who cares.  The Gargoyle A is a good mech in 3145.  In 3050 against the IS its a monster and it's good against its clan peers.

Please don't call it a Charger IIC though.  It's far superior.


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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #14 on: 11 October 2014, 11:58:20 »
The Thanatos mentioned in the first entry . It replaces firepower for maneuverability and a C-3 Slave . A very poor exchange .

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #15 on: 11 October 2014, 13:39:47 »
I actually used a gargoyle A in a receant game not bad, just use it like you do the loki or gladiator keep it moving, use cover.  The B seems kinda fun.

The Assassin I do like to use it like a spider, fast harasser.   Granted anything packing more the a Medium laser means the assassin is in trouble.

The hellspawn is another mech I here bashed.  Its a faster dervish with a ECM.  not a bad mech, but defiantly geared towards being a team player.  Armors a little thin, ammo supply is light but you have the added bonus of 6 jump, so if you keep it moving cover to cover, and raining lrms its not a bad ride. 

The Bushwacker.  designed to go long range with clan mechs.  Low ammo for the AC, 2 lrm 5s, a large laser, and a 5/8 movement profile.  I always used the bushwacker as a run and gun type of mech.   

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #16 on: 11 October 2014, 15:32:43 »
The Ostsol is  tough  and dangerous if it gets in
a position to get behind it's target . The twin PPC version
can put down some surprising firepower .

The maligned standard Rifleman actually puts out a decent
amount of firepower for a 60 tonner . The all energy
variant with the twin PPCs can put out good firepower
and the ability to flip arms and fire 2 PPCs
backwards allows it to cover it's lance mates against
flanking units .

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #17 on: 11 October 2014, 17:59:13 »
The Thanatos mentioned in the first entry . It replaces firepower for maneuverability and a C-3 Slave . A very poor exchange .

You want fun, take the Thanatos that drops some maneuverability in exchange for pure evil. >:D
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #18 on: 12 October 2014, 19:02:49 »
The hellspawn is another mech I here bashed.  Its a faster dervish with a ECM.  not a bad mech, but defiantly geared towards being a team player.  Armors a little thin, ammo supply is light but you have the added bonus of 6 jump, so if you keep it moving cover to cover, and raining lrms its not a bad ride.

Personally I consider the Hellspawn to be the modern replacement for the Whitworth...

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #19 on: 12 October 2014, 19:17:20 »
Of late, I've been tooling around with a slight rework of the basic 4S Thanatos that carries an SNPPC and an MML-9 as the main guns. Results have been mixed, but I think it's defintely better then the regular 4S. It's a nice concept for a 'Mech, but suffers from some dubious wepaons choices.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #20 on: 12 October 2014, 22:17:13 »
My maligned mechs (having or showing an evil disposition; malevolent; malicious)

Most evil:
Hellstar
Sphinx
Scepticemia (Prime)

Old School evil (3025/3039):
Jenner F
Hunchback 4P
Grasshopper 5N
Warhammer 6M
Imp
Marauder II


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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #21 on: 15 October 2014, 11:25:36 »
I like the Blackjack.  Something about a medium that tries to attack like a heavy.
 
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #22 on: 16 October 2014, 09:57:57 »
The old 3025 Blackjack was a fairly nasty in-fighter, despite the bad reputation.  Its long-ranged weaponry was good against vehicles, but any attempts by me to use it as a sniper against other 'Mechs ended in the Blackjack getting wrecked from beyond 9 hexes.  It just didn't have the speed to dictate the range.  If the opponent made the mistake of trying to close within 9 hexes of it, then it generally ended up as a rather brutal knife fight in which the Blackjack gave as well as it got, or better.  The 4xML battery was highly effective; the ACs less so.

The 60 ton "Osts" fell into the equivalent role of naval "heavy cruisers": able to out run anything they can't outgun, or outgun anything they can't outrun.  Not bad, although spurned by a lot of players.

When's the last time you saw a Hermes I on the table?  I found them fairly decent to use against most other Lights.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #23 on: 16 October 2014, 17:58:22 »
Assassin is a scout and scout hunter. Its not even really a harasser. It kills little weak mechs. Vs scout lances its going to kill most of them with ease.  With the exception scout command mechs like the Phoenix Hawk, an Assassin is a perfect mech to wipe out the enemy scouts.

It works very well in that role and is a feared unit in lower BV games.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #24 on: 17 October 2014, 01:39:11 »
I have never once used an Assassin.  It's just. . . unimpressive.  It's fast sure, but it has the smallest missile launchers available, and its 3050 variant drops one of those to stick an Artemis IV on an LRM-5. . . is that one ton worth an extra missile out of five?  Ugh.

When i first saw that, i was like WTF??  That would be like putting artemis IV on a SRM-2...  DUMB as heck.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #25 on: 17 October 2014, 06:54:02 »
...unless you really want that second SRM to hit reliably, and don't want to lose the flexibility a Streak system would cost you.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #26 on: 17 October 2014, 11:27:25 »
Just my opinion, but the weight if that Artemis would be better used on something else... Just seems like new toy syndrome to me.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #27 on: 17 October 2014, 14:18:01 »
Just my opinion, but the weight if that Artemis would be better used on something else... Just seems like new toy syndrome to me.

Exactly.  They pulled the SRMs for an Artemis and swapping the medium up to a pulse.  So I've got one long-range gun and one short range gun. . . I'd rather they'd have pulled the LRMs and increased the SRM rack size or something.
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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #28 on: 17 October 2014, 14:26:42 »
Just my opinion, but the weight if that Artemis would be better used on something else... Just seems like new toy syndrome to me.

That defines a lot of the 3050 IS 'upgrades'. They added a new toy but usually in a way that didn't actually help and in many cases the change actually made the upgraded version worse than the original.

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Re: Much maligned mechs
« Reply #29 on: 17 October 2014, 14:48:07 »
Totally. Now later on I like to slap an mml on it and a pair of standard ml's . that seems much more effective.
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