Abandoned and dead-end tech

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Battletech has certainly had a lot of tech advancements, but not all of them have proven to be something that's really caught on.  Some things just seem to have been a case of everybody looking at the item in question and letting out a resounding "meh."

More than anything, I think that the NARC missile beacon and iNARC seem to have been hit by this- the iNARC in particular seems to have been regarded in-universe as uninteresting, given that it was introduced in the Comstar FM and I honestly can't think of anything produced after 3067 that actually made use of it.

Beyond that, in 3145 I have to wonder if the X-Pulse Laser and Enhanced LRMs are really worth pursuing.  Both were developed in an attempt to mitigate the superiority of the Clans' versions of the weapons, but now the Inner Sphere is capable of producing Clan tech so it really begs the question of why anyone would bother to use either weapon instead of Clantech unless it was for a cheap militia vehicle or something.

[JPArbiter]

Enhanced LRMs and X Pulse lasers next step is to bring the weapons in line with Clan Tech.

iNARC is usefull, but the problem is that the pods demand to much tonnage.  Really I Narc Pods need to be made avaliable for standard launchers.

[YingJanshi]

I'd say the NLRMs and X-Pulse's may have a spot for mid-level units and factions. Ones that have enough resources to go for more advanced tech, but not enough to go to full Clan tech.

And as for the iNarc...the Capellans use it far more often than regular Narc.

As for dead-end tech...look no further than the Blazer. :D

[Jal Phoenix]

Three words:
Mechanical
Jump
Boosters

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The problem with X-Pulse lasers and NLRMs is that even after the IS becomes capable of mass producing Clantech, they're still producing top-end mechs and vehicles that use the cheap knockoff tech, like the Gunsmith and Manticore II- both are particularly egregious examples since they both make use of ultra-expensive XXL engines so the decision to skimp on their weaponry is mind boggling.

[Jal Phoenix]

If you are using NLRMs at all, then you are outright Doing It Wrong.  There is no excuse whatsoever for NLRMs.  Even discounting just using Clantech, the extra tonnage you are spending to lose those lousy three hexes of minimum range could be spent upgrading to an MML launcher, or just mounting some more short-range weapons. 

Besides, if you are letting the enemy get that close to your LRM boat, then that's an entire separate class of Doing It Wrong. Now consider that the in-universe reason that LRMs even have a minimum range is that the missiles don't have time to arm, then you have to ask why the NLRM launcher is heavier when the problem is with the ammo.

NLRMs are the absolute embodiment of GarbargeTech, something so astoundingly stupid and unnecessary that I can't imagine how it got into the game. 

[jklantern]

Three words:
Mechanical
Jump
Boosters

But...but...they go so well with my custom Urbie's spinning rims and bass system!

[Arkansas Warrior]

XPLs are better than regular IS PLs most of the time.  Unless you're really worried about heat, why wouldn't you take XPLs over regular ones?  I mean sure, they pale in comparison to clantech, but you can say that about most IS Tech.

[SCC]

Class 2 and 5 AC's, they do too little damage and they make up for it with range, that isn't useful most of the time

[Arkansas Warrior]

Class 2 and 5 AC's, they do too little damage and they make up for it with range, that isn't useful most of the time

For that matter the UAC-2.  The LBX-2 is superior in almost every way, and I really don't see a chance of 2 extra damage (and 1 less crit) being worth all the downsides.

[Shatara]

Alas, poor Narc. I can just visualize the first guy who tried to use that. "Haha! After three turns taking massive focus fire at short range, I landed a Narc pod! Now my missile boat's LRM15 damage has been boosted from nine to...*checks table*...nine...*sigh*..."

XPLs are a thing I'm fond of. I like all kinds of 'intermediate tech', and tend to abuse it on my customs.

NLRMs were something I was excited about for this reason, until I found the construction data. I just...don't understand how you can take Seeker A, which has trouble aquiring targets up close, make it more like Seeker B, which does not have such issues, and somehow making the launcher a ton heavier...

[SCC]

If you are using NLRMs at all, then you are outright Doing It Wrong.  There is no excuse whatsoever for NLRMs.  Even discounting just using Clantech, the extra tonnage you are spending to lose those lousy three hexes of minimum range could be spent upgrading to an MML launcher, or just mounting some more short-range weapons. 

Besides, if you are letting the enemy get that close to your LRM boat, then that's an entire separate class of Doing It Wrong. Now consider that the in-universe reason that LRMs even have a minimum range is that the missiles don't have time to arm, then you have to ask why the NLRM launcher is heavier when the problem is with the ammo.

NLRMs are the absolute embodiment of GarbargeTech, something so astoundingly stupid and unnecessary that I can't imagine how it got into the game.

The Manticore II would benefit more from having MML-9's then the NLRM-10's that it has

[glitterboy2098]

Besides, if you are letting the enemy get that close to your LRM boat, then that's an entire separate class of Doing It Wrong. Now consider that the in-universe reason that LRMs even have a minimum range is that the missiles don't have time to arm, then you have to ask why the NLRM launcher is heavier when the problem is with the ammo.

IIRC, there is an optional rule to 'hot load' your LRM's to remove those minimum ranges, but it brings a major downside in terms of safety.. it makes the luancher explosive if hit.

so the extra tonnage is probably additional protection so the missiles can be loaded while armed without the risk of blowing up..

[Khymerion]

There are a ton of dead end technologies that litter the landscape.  Here is just two of my favorites...

The old acid warhead missiles from the ancient Field Manual for instance.   You would think that with the prevalence of FF armor on so many units, someone might have continued to push these but they fell off the face of the earth.   They were not even updated to the more modern rule sets.   Guess having all the disadvantages just didn't balance out there.

The infamously fun Dead Fire missiles.   Oh, how I wish these would have continued to be a thing instead of being left behind in favor of the MRM.   Like the old AX missiles, these just were fun to play with and long before the ATM, hitting someone with a albeit garbage Dead Fire LRM-20 for potentially 30 to 40 points at long range was just hilarious or smacking someone upside the head with an 18 pt SRM-6 salvo was just nice.   Sure, it means that you blow up extra-spectacularly on crits and are a walking bomb but heck, isn't that supposed to be half the fun?    Oh well, they were deemed not to have continued...  luckily I still have the old books and will still gladly throw trucks armed with DF-LRM-20s out there, they are going to blow up anyways, what is a little bit more pyrotechnics?

The Hyper Velocity Autocannon.  Wow.   Really.  In theory, this was so much fun.   In practice, ehhh... usually had a tank per company blow up per turn from self immolation.   But the results were fun for as long as the luck held.   Had they not put the self-destruct detail in on this weapon, would have worshiped the paper it was printed on.   Real shame there too...  always love the idea of a range 20 10 pt ballistic attack or a range 28 5 pt direct fire strike, rivalling the old AC-2 in actually being useful...  then again, the HVAC-2 was spewing shots at range 35, often making one wonder if there was ever an open area large enough to actually be able to make use of this crazy almost artillery like range.    Sadly, this feels ultimately like a failed/dead end development thanks to that whole explodes every other shot thing (4 AC-2s firing every turn from 4 tanks... you are going to get a 2 pretty fast.)

Too bad some of these ideas couldn't be resurrected elsewhere in different or more reliable forms.   And yes, I know the DF missile became the MRM.

[Weirdo]

The old acid warhead missiles from the ancient Field Manual for instance.   You would think that with the prevalence of FF armor on so many units, someone might have continued to push these but they fell off the face of the earth.   They were not even updated to the more modern rule sets.

Yes they were. TacOps, page 367. They got better.

[Khymerion]

Yes they were. TacOps, page 367. They got better.

Oh thanks!   I must have missed them.   I was still using the ancient ones.

[Weirdo]

My advice to all players is to reread a random chapter of TacOps every once in a while. There's always something you missed, and that something is almost always something you can use to murder your opponents in new and hilarious ways. >:D

[glitterboy2098]

The Hyper Velocity Autocannon.  Wow.   Really.  In theory, this was so much fun.   In practice, ehhh... usually had a tank per company blow up per turn from self immolation.   But the results were fun for as long as the luck held.   Had they not put the self-destruct detail in on this weapon, would have worshiped the paper it was printed on.   Real shame there too...  always love the idea of a range 20 10 pt ballistic attack or a range 28 5 pt direct fire strike, rivalling the old AC-2 in actually being useful...  then again, the HVAC-2 was spewing shots at range 35, often making one wonder if there was ever an open area large enough to actually be able to make use of this crazy almost artillery like range.    Sadly, this feels ultimately like a failed/dead end development thanks to that whole explodes every other shot thing (4 AC-2s firing every turn from 4 tanks... you are going to get a 2 pretty fast.)

still around, and in rather (suicidally) extensive use by the Capellan confederation by 3145..

[Jal Phoenix]

Ah yes, the HV AC-10... which is totally and completely inferior to the Gauss Rifle, at a savings of 1 ton.  Or the HV AC-5, which is totally an completely inferior to the Light Gauss Rifle, at no savings in tonnage. 

Really, the only reason to use some of this stuff is for flavor.  If different weapons were only available to certain factions, then it would make more sense. Like if the Capellans were so backwards that they couldn't make Gauss rifles, but were able to pull off HV ACs, then it would be fine to mount those on Capellan 'Mechs where another faction would put Gauss rifles, and so on.

[Gus]

There are a ton of dead end technologies that litter the landscape.  Here is just two of my favorites...

The infamously fun Dead Fire missiles.   Oh, how I wish these would have continued to be a thing instead of being left behind in favor of the MRM.   Like the old AX missiles, these just were fun to play with and long before the ATM, hitting someone with a albeit garbage Dead Fire LRM-20 for potentially 30 to 40 points at long range was just hilarious or smacking someone upside the head with an 18 pt SRM-6 salvo was just nice.   Sure, it means that you blow up extra-spectacularly on crits and are a walking bomb but heck, isn't that supposed to be half the fun?    Oh well, they were deemed not to have continued...  luckily I still have the old books and will still gladly throw trucks armed with DF-LRM-20s out there, they are going to blow up anyways, what is a little bit more pyrotechnics?

Too bad some of these ideas couldn't be resurrected elsewhere in different or more reliable forms.   And yes, I know the DF missile became the MRM.

You may wish to read page 34 of Alpha Strike Companion. I predict that DFMs, along with a few other older (and newer) pieces of technology mentioned in ASC, will appear in the upcoming Interstellar Ops Historical Rules beta test.

[martian]

More than anything, I think that the NARC missile beacon and iNARC seem to have been hit by this- the iNARC in particular seems to have been regarded in-universe as uninteresting, given that it was introduced in the Comstar FM and I honestly can't think of anything produced after 3067 that actually made use of it.

Actually, there are some new NARC/iNARCs carriers available:

• Tufana Hovercraft - it has got two variants - one model with NARC and one model with iNARC (Technical Readout: 3085, p.20)
• Bardiche Heavy Strike Tank - wheeled vehicle with iNARC (Technical Readout: 3145 - Free Worlds League, p.18)
• Scapha Hovertank, Alt.C. D - one configuration with iNARC; ammo is quite limited, but acceptable (Technical Readout: 3145 - Republic of the Sphere, p.21)

Seeing the Tufana and the Bardiche, it seems to me that both the Regulans and the anti-Regulans still consider the NARC/iNARC technology to be viable, if they design vehicles around it.

The RAF has access to it as partial successor of ComGuards/Word of Blake Militia.

[martian]

Beyond that, in 3145 I have to wonder if the X-Pulse Laser and Enhanced LRMs are really worth pursuing.  Both were developed in an attempt to mitigate the superiority of the Clans' versions of the weapons, but now the Inner Sphere is capable of producing Clan tech so it really begs the question of why anyone would bother to use either weapon instead of Clantech unless it was for a cheap militia vehicle or something.

1) Not everybody can afford to equip his entire army with ClanTech Lasers. I guess that IS weapons are cheaper and easier to maintain too.

2) Actually, X-Pulse Lasers can be found not only on militia vehicles: FedSuns' brand new Assault Command 'Mech AS7-D3 Atlas III is armed with four X-Pulse Lasers. Ditto the Gunsmith.

3) Even nations with their own Clans combine IS Tech and ClanTech on their 'Mechs (possibly from financial reasons): The Draconis Combine used X-Pulse Laser on its premiere Heavy Dragon II; the Lyran Commonwealth uses X-Pulse laser on their favorite Light Zeus-X from the newest TRO.

[jymset]

Three words:
Mechanical Compact
Jump Heat
Boosters Sinks

Fixed that for you O0

[DarkISI]

Fixed that for you O0

Ah, come on. There are uses for Compact Heat Sinks.
None come to mind, but I bet somebody can find something (after enough necrosia, that is).

[Redman]

1) Not everybody can afford to equip his entire army with ClanTech Lasers. I guess that IS weapons are cheaper and easier to maintain too.
...

According to TechManual p.290ff the costs for IS and Clan weaponry of the same type are identical. I was so astounded by that that i had to clear it up with TPTB and they confirmed it (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/techmanual/(answered)-costs-of-heavy-weapons/). This makes x-pulse lasers completely useless as they cost considerably more than a corresponding clan-tech laser. For instance a medium pulse laser costs 60.000 c-bills but the medium x-pulse is 110.000 c-bills.

The only thing going for the x-pulse laser is that it doesn't suffer the +2 penalty to maintenance checks if an IS Tech is working on it (StratOps p.171).

[Col Toda]

X-Pulse lasers have it's niche as it costs less in XP to upgrade your IS mech with them than to bump up to the Clan Mix tech for   " A Time of War RPG " . Some mechs from the prototype book particularly the Wolf Trap do not lose anything for having them and in the 3085 - 3130 time line it makes sense .  The Dark Age comes up with new armors that make X - Pulse lasers less than ideal . The X - Pulse laser particularly the small one is one of the most under appreciated weapon in the game .  I am glad that the iNarc has not caught on . My unit has to kill any unit fielded with it first in any battle with conventional rounds so I can use my Homing and Semi-Guided rounds later in the battle without interference from Nemesis Pods .  The fielding of iNARC is so rare that  a veteran unit that  uses  TAG and C3 to clean the Clocks of Elite ; Clan ; and WOB opposition with better hardware and pilots does not have to worry too much about the rare situation in which someone fields it . As for enhanced LRMs you tend to be much better off with standard LRMs as the logistics train for special ammo is better .  Clan LRMs lack of min range is very nice but having to spend double for weapons systems and ammo cost or better is wearing quickly in most campain settings as you go through LRM ammo so fast  .  The Clan Streak missile systems of all kinds at least makes the efficacy of ammo good enough to almost break even . Artemis IV and V does not .

[martian]

According to TechManual p.290ff the costs for IS and Clan weaponry of the same type are identical. I was so astounded by that that i had to clear it up with TPTB and they confirmed it (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/techmanual/(answered)-costs-of-heavy-weapons/). This makes x-pulse lasers completely useless as they cost considerably more than a corresponding clan-tech laser. For instance a medium pulse laser costs 60.000 c-bills but the medium x-pulse is 110.000 c-bills.

The only thing going for the x-pulse laser is that it doesn't suffer the +2 penalty to maintenance checks if an IS Tech is working on it (StratOps p.171).

So - if understand it correctly - as a Dark Age CEO of Irian BattleMechs Unlimited I can buy either IS Large Pulse Laser with range 10 or I can visit our local Clan Sea Fox representative to buy Clan Large Pulse Laser with range 20 and one ton less weight for exactly the same money?

As you said: Why buy IS Medium X-Pulse Laser if the Clan Medium Pulse laser:

• is cheaper - it costs a half of MXP Laser
• fires farther
• does greater damage
• produces ¹/₃ less waste heat than MXP Laser

?

[Jal Phoenix]

Fixed that for you O0

Err, yeah.  I'll go along with that.   O:-)

[Redman]

So - if understand it correctly - as a Dark Age CEO of Irian BattleMechs Unlimited I can buy either IS Large Pulse Laser with range 10 or I can visit our local Clan Sea Fox representative to buy Clan Large Pulse Laser with range 20 and one ton less weight for exactly the same money?

As you said: Why buy IS Medium X-Pulse Laser if the Clan Medium Pulse laser:

• is cheaper - it costs a half of MXP Laser
• fires farther
• does greater damage
• produces ¹/₃ less waste heat than MXP Laser

?

That's exactly how it seems to work. The only possible way out of this is that strictly speaking the prices in TM and TO are manufacturing costs and not retail prices.  Of course this would lead to the question what the actual market prices for equipment are.

[DarkSpade]

What about their availability?