Fortress-class as a combat vessel

[Alan Grant]

I was recently reviewing some info on the Medusans and couldn't help but notice that the Fortress-class dropship seems to be a popular combat dropship in that command. Aside from a single modified Excalibur, the Fortresses are the command heavy elements.

Do you think that's typical in the Great House fleets? Do you think Fortresses are assigned to attack or assault dropship flotillas or squadrons?

I guess I'm talking about the eras in which the Fortress-class is less rare. I know at one point it was threatened with extinction.

[Archangel]

The Lyran Commonwealth was the only state that deployed Fortresses in any significant numbers being as they were the only state to continue manufacturing the Fortress throughout the Succession Wars.  The other states had few, if any, Fortresses.  IMO only the most prestigious units were assigned Fortresses as a command DropShip.  The rest were likely held in reserve for critical offensives or counter-offensives for which a few "special" flotillas/squadrons may be formed.  As far as I am aware, only the Lyrans had enough to form an entire assault group out of Fortress-class DropShips.

[Weirdo]

That's during the Succession Wars. I would guess that they become more common afterwards.

As a combat ship, I think it was mostly a case of using what they could get ahold of. The Fortress's firepower is decent enough in the forwards arcs for anti-fighter work, but not gonna crush DropShips in a single blow or anything, and it's hardly particularly tough or fast enough to be noticeable in either category.

[Jellico]

Its a function of its real world age.

The Fortress is in the Assault Ships section of DropShips & JumpShips alongside the Avenger, Intruder, and Achilles.

From DropShips & JumpShips

The Fortress Class DropShip is the best-armed and armored DropShip still in operation

Originally designed as a heavy troop transport, the ship's tremendous firepower makes it among the deadliest of the assault DropShips.

It is still classified as an assault ship in TRO3057.

[Weirdo]

Yeah, alongside those ships, it's got the guns to rumble. Keep it the hell away from PWSes, though.

[pheonixstorm]

Unless you do as one posted did in one of the forums and refit the Fortress to use a LOT of Long Tom Cannons. Then its boom boom bye-bye

[Weirdo]

Bye-bye to the Fortress, you mean. Replacing the conventional guns with artillery makes it useless as a space combatant. It would be unable to fire anything in space, making it only a little more useful in combat than a conventional JumpShip. You *could* use it as an assault craft what with those infantry bays, but it's not fast enough to get them onto anything but stationary targets, or maybe a Behemoth.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Artillery cannons, which can fire in space, not artillery pieces, which can't.  See the Transit 13G from TR:Prototypes for an example.

[Archangel]

Per 3057r, the Long Tom III Cannon can only be fired when the DropShip is grounded.  In addition, by 3057, the increasing rarity of the Fortress curtailed its use so that it would generally only operate from secured landing zones.

[Col Toda]

Lacks a little armor and lacks aerospace fighters .  That makes the Fortress less than Ideal for an offensive .  Had the same problems as the Excaliber I had .  Managed to get one fortress and use it to cart around my training cadre .

[pheonixstorm]

Per the rules Long Tom CANNONS are direct fire while the Long Tom ARTILLERY are indirect. There is a difference.

See TacOps pg 284 construction rules (first I could find)

All of the Artillery Cannons presented here may be installed on their respective Available Unit types in accordance with the unit’s standard construction
rules (for aerospace units, Artillery Cannons are classified as autocannons and may be mounted as part of an autocannon bay).

LT Cannons can also be mounted on space stations, warships, etc.

While normally LT Artillery are stuck firing from grounded units. Though would small craft be able to fire a normal artillery piece while flying or only grounded... I know VTOLs and I believe Conventional Aircraft can..

You are now informed :) Please Long Tom responsibly.

[serack]

the only artillery that can be fired while not grounded is the Arrow IV whether its on VTOL ,Aero, Conventional, or Small craft/ Dropship :)

[Weirdo]

Apologies, I thought you were referring to the artillery piece. Though going with an all-LTC load seems pretty inefficient to me. You'd be better off going with normal guns and winding up with far more raw punch.

[Wrangler]

Am I crazy to think the designation of "assault" meant something different in early early books? Like designation what used, such as planetary assault.  Takes a beating going in, Lands in the contested hot zone where it holds out using its artillery type of "assault" verse like large big gunned ship meant to fight biggest units in the field and bully the rest?

[Alan Grant]

Well the Avenger, Intruder and Achilles were definitely all intended for combat in space. Whether that meant a gun fight or marine boarding or both.

It sounds like the Fortress was sort of the "combat lander" among them. It has more firepower than the larger Overlord. I think it was designed to be able to fight it's way to the surface, tearing up space attackers as it flew past them and then land and potentially fight some more to support its troops. It's not stellar at that role because it's somewhat thin-skinned, but that seems to be a problem with all the early dropships (and many warships).

It typically doesn't get used that way from the Succession Wars on because it is fluffed as being rarer. But I think that kind of operation was what the designers had envisioned. They were picturing Fortresses headed for atmo, guns blazing with fighters and combat droppers and even warships on both sides duking it out at the same time.

[pheonixstorm]

When I brought up the Long Tom Cannons I was making a reference to this thread Pocket Warship, 3025 style.

I think that the LTC will also cause AE damage to all units in the hex though I am not positive. So in some regards a much better choice that regular guns as Weirdo pointed out.

[Jellico]

Well the Avenger, Intruder and Achilles were definitely all intended for combat in space. Whether that meant a gun fight or marine boarding or both.

It sounds like the Fortress was sort of the "combat lander" among them. It has more firepower than the larger Overlord. I think it was designed to be able to fight it's way to the surface, tearing up space attackers as it flew past them and then land and potentially fight some more to support its troops. It's not stellar at that role because it's somewhat thin-skinned, but that seems to be a problem with all the early dropships (and many warships).

It typically doesn't get used that way from the Succession Wars on because it is fluffed as being rarer. But I think that kind of operation was what the designers had envisioned. They were picturing Fortresses headed for atmo, guns blazing with fighters and combat droppers and even warships on both sides duking it out at the same time.

It didn't get used that way before the Succession Wars, as the fluff in DS&JS makes clear. It was a heavily armed troopy that was thrown into the assault role when all the WarShips went away because it had guns and armour when other ships didn't.

[Weirdo]

I think that the LTC will also cause AE damage to all units in the hex though I am not positive.

Nothing will.