Canonicity of MW4

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I cant seem to find info on this topic, so i wanna ask, is MW4 Black Knight canon? The Vengeance canon is obviously semi-canon because it was featured in the FCCW sourcebook, while Mercs was non-canon, but whats the status of Black Knight?

[Frabby]

Computer games aren't canon per se.

However, there are canonical stories out there that basically tell the same story (Loren Coleman wrote Trial Under Fire which I'm told essentially retells the MW4 storyline, for example). Those sourcebooks and stories (typically BattleCorps stories) are canon; but that still does not canonize the original computer game.

Now there's a caveat: Mendrugo once postulated that
"As long as a piece of fluff from an official source (FASA, FanPro, Catalyst, Infocom*, Activision*, Microprose*, Microsoft*) isn't directly contradicted, and makes sense, you can assume it to be part of the shared universe.
(*Fluff from these sources is 'canon' in the sense that the story that takes place in the game happened in canon in the same general broad strokes - Gideon recovered the Chalice from the Matabushi-backed Dark Wing; Jason found the Star League cache and rescued his father, then fought with the Hounds on Luthien; mercenaries helped Carver V become Liberty, FedCom forces on Port Arthur disrupted Smoke Jaguar operations as part of Operation Bird Dog, etc. - but the details are likely to be significantly different than the ones you experienced during your gameplay)."
And Herb (as the Line Developer) commented that "it looks like Mendrugo has the long and short of it right".

Since I never played MW4 or any of its expansions I cannot comment on how compatible they are with canon. But unless they're positively contradicted (and that's almost never the case) then you "can assume them to be part of the shared universe" at least in broad strokes. Of course, they become less reliable with higher levels of detail.

Edit: Link to canonicity thread: Here

[JadeHellbringer]

At least the basic framework of Vengeance made it into the FedCom Civil War sourcebook. But there's no mention of anything like the fighting on Kentares from Black Knight that I've ever seen. To be fair, there's not much mention of what's been happening on Kentares AT ALL since Ian took over, unless I've missed something along the way- so anything is possible. But without solid info, it's probably best to view Black Knight as a 'what if' story rather than as canon in any way.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Thanks Frabby, JadeHellbringer! Actually, JHB gave me the answer i was looking for. Its really good to hear Black Knight was less canon.

I guess the mods can delete this thread since its purpose have been fulfilled. Thanks again!

[Timerlane]

IMO, it feels like BK was deliberately aimed to appeal to some sort of hatedom for the Vengeance characters. AFAIK, none of the Vengeance VAs reprised their roles, and having you systematically hunt down all of your old wingmen(sans Jen McQuarrie; I don't recall any mention of her), and then...'you', is kind of a morbid shift of tone if that wasn't part of the intent.

(Loren Coleman wrote Trial Under Fire which I'm told essentially retells the MW4 storyline, for example). Those sourcebooks and stories (typically BattleCorps stories) are canon; but that still does not canonize the original computer game.

Trial Under Fire recounts MW3, often quoting lines from the game, word for word(which was quite awesome, IMO; I could hear the MW3 voices in my head as I was reading, along with Sinclair's VA from Pirate's Moon).

It was bundled with the MW4: Mercs free release, though.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I absolutely hated Black Knight precisely for that part about hunting down all the Vengeance characters. Even people who were supposed to be allies from Vengeance suddenly turned on Duke Ian, but of course that part was covered a lot in FCCWSB.

[FedSunsBorn]

I prefer the FCCW handbooks ending. An honorable fight and victory over the Combine invading forces.  [rockon]

Makes Vengence seem slightly less sappy when I think of what happens after.

Black Knight was a fun game but I just take it all with a grain of salt.

[pickledtezcat]

I seem to remember that at the end of the game, playing as Ian, you get to make a choice of what final mission to take. One good choice, where you save your allies and friends, and one bad choice where you sacrifice everyone for victory. Both lead to different endings.

Black night takes over from the bad ending, as such it's a kind of "alternative history" game, like the mirror universe in Star Trek. :) Ian is evil, he let his sister die in order to win, Jen left when she found out what kind of monster he has become etc...

Been a while since I played the games though, so I can't quite remember if it's true.

[JadeHellbringer]

IMO, it feels like BK was deliberately aimed to appeal to some sort of hatedom for the Vengeance characters. AFAIK, none of the Vengeance VAs reprised their roles, and having you systematically hunt down all of your old wingmen(sans Jen McQuarrie; I don't recall any mention of her), and then...'you', is kind of a morbid shift of tone if that wasn't part of the intent.

I think McQuarrie is in Ian's command lance during the attack on the palace, but it's been a while since I went through BK, so I may be wrong.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Shes in the command lance, along with Jules Gonzalez and Terra Risner, if i'm not mistaken.

[martian]

Composition of Omega Lance was:

• Ian Dresari - Daishi
• Jules Gonzales - Sunder
• Jen McQuarrie - Mad Cat Mk. II

Ian sounds pretty pissed off when you kill Jen McQuarrie first.  ;) (Something like "You will pay for this!" said with a guttural voice)

You as Eric McClair already killed Casey Nolan at the shooting range (piloting a Mauler). Terra Risner wasn't mentioned in BK.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The videos in Vengeance did heavily imply that Jen had feelings for Ian, so i'm not surprised that was his reaction in BK.

[Dark Jackal]

I cant seem to find info on this topic, so i wanna ask, is MW4 Black Knight canon? The Vengeance canon is obviously semi-canon because it was featured in the FCCW sourcebook, while Mercs was non-canon, but whats the status of Black Knight?

Like with most MW games post MW2 Mercs, there is a healthy amount of Clan 'Mechs to go around which can be considered as cannonfodder added into the game. Of course, clan 'Mechs as well as the latest in IS tech are fielded in unlikely numbers on a planet far removed from any major action. That being said, you can take the liberty of replacing some odd ball Clan 'Mechs, like enemy cougars with Panthers for example, if you're itching to recreate a different experience via the boardgame.

[martian]

I have a question about Argus Battlemech.  Model AGS-3D (with twin Ultras) - is it canon (for boardgame), or is it not? Where did the designation come from? Is there any Record sheet for it?

Because this 'Mech debuted in MW4, I am posting this question here...

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Sarna lists it as well, but they also only say its from MW4.

[Your Name Is]

I know it advertised a new mech that was exclusive to it (I still have all my MW4 boxes) in the manual and box.

[Timerlane]

A few of them. I'm pretty sure the Osiris, Chimera, Hellspawn, Uziel, Argus, Thanatos and Mad Cat MKII were MW4 before they were CBT(TRO: 3067).

Obviously, some didn't come out as well as others(Thanatos). :P

[Your Name Is]

I'm pretty sure Uziel is older than MW4. I could be wrong, though.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Nope. The Uziel debuted in Vengeance.

[Your Name Is]

I didn't know that. The more ya know... Which is amusing considering its all but become one of the most widely recognized mechs.

I'm debating canonicity and the stupidity of the defenders in the introduction on Youtube. Shouldn't have gotten myself involved :X

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Well, it was based on a weapon that became one of the most widely-recognized and used SMGs.