Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II  (Read 18143 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« on: 30 January 2015, 07:04:58 »
’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II

Rifleman II. Rumored find of Gray Norton, who then used it to game fame and fortune in the arenas of Solaris VII. Star League “Royal” upgrade of the iconic Rifleman.

Even if it showed up fifty years before the RFL-3N.

Besides rumors in early products, this machine comes to us courtesy of a short blurb in Technical Readout: 3075. A second, personalized variant is also seen in Historical Turning Points: New Dallas.

The original RFL-1N Rifleman first appeared in 2505, with a standardized version, the RFL-2N showing up in 2556. With both models in use during the Reunification War, they were able proliferate throughout the Inner Sphere. With the SLDF always wanting to keep at least a step or two ahead of the forces of the Houses, somewhere in the next century and a half the idea of updating the Rifleman must have been put forward. It took until 2720 for that idea to come to fruition.

The RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II is built around an endo-steel skeleton and mounts a 320-rated extralight engine, giving it speeds equivalent to the earlier (and later) Rifleman. Twelve tons of standard plate armor give the design 77% of maximum protection, laid out in a 9, 29/10, 20/6, 20, 26 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively). Fourteen double-strength heat sinks provide adequate heat dissipation. Weapons consist of a Class-10 LB-X autocannon and a large pulse laser in each arm and a medium laser in each side torso. Two tons of ammunition feed the autocannons. A Beagle Active Probe allows for spotting hidden units before they can spring nasty surprises.

The Rifleman II probably was popular with the SLDF. Since records are a bit sparse, it is hard to tell for sure. That said, at least one higher-ranking member did take to the design: Major General Carlos Kataga. The commander of the SLDF training camps on New Dallas, he had his own customized ride, and in late 2766 was called upon to put it to use with the outbreak of the Amaris Coup. He died during that action, and while I’d like to say valiantly, when someone decides to ortillery your base down around your head, I’m not sure if that qualifies.

His variant swaps the Class-10 autocannons for a Gauss Rifle, placed in the right arm. Two tons of ammunition feed the headcapper. Both large pulse lasers are now in the left arm. The remaining weight is filled with four jump jets, to give the design additional maneuverability. Three tons of armor was added, upping protection to a 9, 39/10, 25/9, 25, 32 pattern.

The Amaris Coup and the Liberation that followed it covered the period where the RFL-3N arrived in 2770. While most Rifleman IIs went with the SLDF on their Exodus (and may have led to the Rifleman IIc), at least one appears to have survived in the Periphery, where Gray Norton found it. With the proliferation of the New Dallas Core during the Jihad, the Rifleman II also may have reentered production. As such, one should keep an eye out for them.

Using one is relatively simple. Use the LB-X autocannons to spread flak at VTOLs, aerospace fighters, and other targets of opportunity. Solid shells are to be used against tougher targets. The pulse and medium lasers are more useful against close-in units. Do keep an eye on your heat, as constant Alphas will cause trouble eventually (having succumbed to that in the past). Kataga’s ride is even easier. Use the Gauss to snipe, the jump jets to maneuver around issues, and the lasers to deal with irritants.

Fighting one is a bit trickier, as it is with most assaults. The old standbys work, so bring high-damage weaponry. Any that enter the modern era can also be fought with targeting computers and specialty ammunition. If you must close with him, use cover as much as possible to reach him. (I find that lucky shots happen a lot more often than they should. For both sides.)

The Rifleman II is a creation of its time, and as such might be slightly anachronistic in the modern era. Still, it is a dangerous foe and should be kept an eye upon. That said, I am unsure if the WoBbles (or any of the Jihad or post-Jihad powers) put it back into production. Otherwise, it is likely only to be in some of the oldest Brian Caches or in second-line ranks. And there is the possibility one is sitting out there undiscovered in a LosTech cache somewhere.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #1 on: 30 January 2015, 07:26:33 »
at least one appears to have survived in the Periphery, where Gray Norton found it.

Objection. No evidence of this exists.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #2 on: 30 January 2015, 07:47:02 »
Nice rare machine, If i get into late Star League campaign, it would be nice machine to have on my side.

Liam's Ghost not wrong saying there no evidence he had one.  However the Gray Norton thing was a rumor started in TRO:3075, but its a canon rumor.  People in-universe gossiping about it, doesn't make it not a thing though. If it were still true, Justin Xiang Allard would have been using that bad boy in his final fight instead of that standard 3N named the "Legend Killer".  Some Merc unit aliged to gotten the "Legend Killer".  It was the 3N.

Anyways, i think the Customized one pretty darn neat.



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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #3 on: 30 January 2015, 08:07:15 »
Objection. No evidence of this exists.

Hence the word "appears"

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #4 on: 30 January 2015, 08:08:01 »
Nice review on a very good (especially so for its time) mech and its still a solid fighter by modern standards.  I honestly didn't know about the variant which is also a nasty bit of work. Its a bigger, fatter Gallant that works. 
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #5 on: 30 January 2015, 08:22:39 »
Liam's Ghost not wrong saying there no evidence he had one.  However the Gray Norton thing was a rumor started in TRO:3075, but its a canon rumor.  People in-universe gossiping about it, doesn't make it not a thing though. If it were still true, Justin Xiang Allard would have been using that bad boy in his final fight instead of that standard 3N named the "Legend Killer".  Some Merc unit aliged to gotten the "Legend Killer".  It was the 3N.

The origin of the rumor goes back to the solaris boxed set. Back then the rumor was based on the notion that Noton couldn't possibly compete in the open class in a mere stock rifleman.

Hence the word "appears"

"Appears" suggests there is evidence of it. People say "appears" when they're pretty sure it's true, not when the question is still up in the air. There's no neutrality in "appears". At best, you say "X appears to be Y, but and so forth" and hope your reader is studious enough to read the whole sentence.

If you're going to present the Noton Rifleman rumor in such an auspicious format as Mech of the Week, it behooves you to present the whole case, not just "appears" with no qualifiers.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #6 on: 30 January 2015, 09:02:38 »
Why is the Rifleman II's number RFL-3N-2, even though the actual RFL-3N did not exist yet? Continuity snarl? If it were called RFL-2N-2 there'd be no problem....
How very annoying. Were it up to me, i'd just retcon the RFL-3N being considerably older than it is, something like 70 years, or perhaps 63 years so its intro date would be 2707.
Not that this is the first time there are odd designations. Consider the Catapult CPTL-C2, which is a '62 mech, C1 is pre-Succession Wars design and C3 is '49 design...  Guess i'll just have to live with it.

In any case... The Rifleman II doesn't really feel like a Rifleman to me. It has so much shorter range while having more firepower, it feels odd. Of course, i'm not generally fan of variants with upped mass. Or variants with lesser mass. I wonder, is this still meant to be AA mech? I'd imagine longer range is desirable for that purpose (in fluff if not rules-wise).

I can see how the Clan Rifleman IIC might be based on this Royal Rifleman: remove unnecessary mass (and speed, considering its role) and reduce ammunition dependency while increasing overall range, while retaining the (Beagle) Active Probe.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #7 on: 30 January 2015, 10:10:41 »
Why is the Rifleman II's number RFL-3N-2, even though the actual RFL-3N did not exist yet? Continuity snarl? If it were called RFL-2N-2 there'd be no problem....
IMHO the most likely explanation is that the designation was assigned by an analyst who was operating in the Dark Age. He named it the RFL-3N-2 because it appeared to be a variant of the RFL-3N he was more familiar with. Maybe the SLDF did call it the RFL-2N-2 like you suggest, but all the records for that designation were lost.

Another possibility is that the RFL-3N and 3N-2 were both on the manufacturer's drawing boards at the same time and they used those designations to distinguish between the two models. Sort of like the F-35A, F-35B, and F-35C today.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #8 on: 30 January 2015, 10:36:08 »
Makes sense... and asking the Clans, who probably knew the exact designations, would be no help likely (because 1: You need to ask the Homeworld Clans and 2: the Wars of Reaving probably wiped out relevant data).

Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #9 on: 30 January 2015, 10:41:18 »
The origin of the rumor goes back to the solaris boxed set. Back then the rumor was based on the notion that Noton couldn't possibly compete in the open class in a mere stock rifleman.

"Appears" suggests there is evidence of it. People say "appears" when they're pretty sure it's true, not when the question is still up in the air. There's no neutrality in "appears". At best, you say "X appears to be Y, but and so forth" and hope your reader is studious enough to read the whole sentence.

If you're going to present the Noton Rifleman rumor in such an auspicious format as Mech of the Week, it behooves you to present the whole case, not just "appears" with no qualifiers.

See, until they actually decide to put out an actual record sheet for Gray Norton's Rifleman... Both the Rifleman and the Rifleman II appear equally likely to me. So around 50/50. And being around a large number of people who would use "appears" in regards to a rumor when there is, perhaps, a 10% chance of it being true... well, one learns context somehow...

glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #10 on: 30 January 2015, 12:50:30 »
See, until they actually decide to put out an actual record sheet for Gray Norton's Rifleman... Both the Rifleman and the Rifleman II appear equally likely to me. So around 50/50. And being around a large number of people who would use "appears" in regards to a rumor when there is, perhaps, a 10% chance of it being true... well, one learns context somehow...
nope. Warrior: En Garde was quite specific about the weight of what Justin was driving. and justin got access to it by robbing grey's secret safe, taking a portable lockbox filled with his emergency escape passports, bug-out money, and the key to legend killer's secret storage site.
in short, pretty much impossible for it to have been anything but a regular 60 ton -3N.

further, Noton was driving this mech on solaris. where as we know from that book and other books set there, that both participants in the games and the referees use seismic sensors and the rest to track the fighters, where betting is by mech, including specific damage, and both the legal and criminal authorities scrutinize everything.

something as blatant as an assault class rifleman running around would be like a person bringing a formula 1 car to compete in a soapbox derby.. it just isn't gonna go unnoticed, and will be found out quick.

so the odds are more like 1%.. and that accounting mainly for the fact that a retcon is always possible, no matter how absurd it would be.

it is much easier to believe that he was just that good a pilot and tactician (high pilot/gunnery and the ability to out think his opponents and get the most from his mech), combine those with a few pilot abilities from the RPG and you'd easily be able to take on the mechs of introtech solaris.
and if you really need to think he cheated somehow, it is a lot easier to believe he got a hold of something harder to detect.. like say a set of laser insulators for LL's off a chippewa or some improved cooling jackets... something that could be hidden from the prying eyes of the game world's authorities.
« Last Edit: 30 January 2015, 12:55:51 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #11 on: 30 January 2015, 12:55:41 »
He also probably had Edge to burn ;)

Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #12 on: 30 January 2015, 14:37:39 »
Well, the Technical Readouts I have access to give both as possibilities, not definite knowledge.

As for the novels... The novels I have read are Far Country, Ghost of Winter, Decision at Thunder Rift, Wolves on the Border, and Masters of War. In that order. Any others I have not had access to, or have never gotten around to reading.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #13 on: 30 January 2015, 14:45:24 »
By the way, new sources trumps old ones these days.  Not saying this is case here, but there that possiblity.

Let's drop Gray Norton thing?  Save it for another thread, talk about possibilities of Rifleman II?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #14 on: 30 January 2015, 14:53:01 »
As far as the RFL-3N-2 designation goes, for all we know, the 80 ton design was the second consideration for the 3N upgrade. Unfortunately (Or fortunately, I have fond memories of the 3N) the 60 ton 3N was entered into mass production as it was more easily produced than the 3N-2.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #15 on: 30 January 2015, 15:05:02 »
By the way, new sources trumps old ones these days.  Not saying this is case here, but there that possiblity.

Let's drop Gray Norton thing?  Save it for another thread, talk about possibilities of Rifleman II?

Wouldn't THAT be something?

OK, for me, it reminds me less of a Rifleman, more of the Emperor- and in a good way. Excellent weapons for urban fighting, I really need to give this a test run sometime.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #16 on: 30 January 2015, 15:22:57 »
Wouldn't THAT be something?

OK, for me, it reminds me less of a Rifleman, more of the Emperor- and in a good way. Excellent weapons for urban fighting, I really need to give this a test run sometime.
Maybe you should try running scenario from Historical Turning Points: Dallas?  Run one with the Major-General is duking it out with the Republicans?  City battle with his variant be interesting.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #17 on: 30 January 2015, 16:08:29 »
I know of a couple of people who have run the Kataga variant through the scenario. I'd be interested in reading about additional experiences with the unit.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #18 on: 30 January 2015, 16:46:52 »
The unseen tale of Rifleman II's origin....

SLDF procurement officer: Hello, Kallon guy, we like your Rifleman, it is fairly good. But we need something better... an improved version. For our (wink) special units, you know, the really good ones that nobody knows about.

Kallon CEO: Ahh... got it. And what do you have in mind for those special units?

SLDF procurement officer: The usual, twin LBX10 for VTOLs and tanks, large pulse laser to catch fast units and more armor. And double heat sinks, too. Don't forget double heat sinks.

Kallon CEO: It is possible to do an upgraded Rifleman, but all what you want doesn't fit into a normal Rifleman. Only an assault mech with an XL engine would have that array of weapons.. it would be expensive to design and each mech would be very expensive.

SLDF procurement officer: Ah, it is doable. Ok, build 5000. Pronto. By the way, you keep saying the word "expensive". I have heard it several times but I don't know what does it mean. Please, can you explain what it means to me?

Kalloon CEO: Five thousand assault mechs? (waters his mouth).

SLDF procurement officer: Yes, I think that a lot of generals will love to have this Rifleman as a bodyguard... and we have so many generals. Deal?

Kallon CEO: Deal! (faints and falls to the ground)

SLDF procurement officer: Sigh, I don't know where they find those guys, they keep fainting all the day. And I have 15 minutes before I meet that Welsh Technologies guy. I like they scout mech idea...
« Last Edit: 30 January 2015, 16:48:57 by God and Davion »
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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #19 on: 30 January 2015, 16:57:40 »
As far as the RFL-3N-2 designation goes, for all we know, the 80 ton design was the second consideration for the 3N upgrade. Unfortunately (Or fortunately, I have fond memories of the 3N) the 60 ton 3N was entered into mass production as it was more easily produced than the 3N-2.

In the Rifleman article, I posited that the RFL-3N was put into production in 2770, because during the Liberation the need for a lot of cheap BattleMechs became apparent. Mind you, the only reasons they wouldn't have started producing more II's after the Exodus would likely be honoring the past deal... and if the production line for the Rifleman II didn't survive to restart.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #20 on: 30 January 2015, 17:57:43 »

I won't be surprised if the RFL-3N was stick in 'development hell' for all those years.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #21 on: 30 January 2015, 19:06:18 »
It's actually due to an error behind the scenes, but feel free to keep trying to justify it. ;)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #22 on: 30 January 2015, 19:55:17 »
Haven't driven a Rifleman II yet. But it does look promising.
(Never really been a fan of the Rifleman, would much rather take the JagerMech.)

And as for the whole Gray Noton thing, Record Sheets: 3055 Upgrade has three record sheets for his Legend Killer in the back. Two custom RFL-3Ns and one custom RFL-3N-2. So basically you can run it however you want to...   

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #23 on: 30 January 2015, 20:01:26 »
So the Kataga variant...
4/6/4
15 tons of armor
Gauss rifle
2 x LPL
2 x ML

That's a pretty stout mech.  Hard pressed to find many contemporaries at that size that it couldn't mess up.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #24 on: 30 January 2015, 20:19:01 »
It's actually due to an error behind the scenes, but feel free to keep trying to justify it. ;)

LOL; we are battletech fans, we can justify anything  O:-)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #25 on: 30 January 2015, 22:10:59 »
I gave this a couple of test runs, it was quite good against fighters, naturally, but I had trouble bringing the pulse lasers into range. The LB-X's were usually in range and perfect for the job, it just felt as if longer range weapons like standard PPCs might have been better.

Utterly slaughters any vehicles that get in range. Even if the lasers can't reach them the cannons usually immobilise them and, well, the target doesn't last past the next turn.

No surprises with enemy 'Mechs, it's a brawler, an urban fighter, other than that it's an improvement on the original.

Over all a useful design, enjoyed the article and the romp through history. :)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #26 on: 31 January 2015, 03:07:20 »
A question about the Rifleman II, is this in essence the 'Royal Rifleman' or was there actually also a Royal Rifleman as well?  The Rifleman II is still a formidable machine and whilst built for mid to close range punch ups i'd not want to be on the reciving end of its guns in a modern design. 
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #27 on: 31 January 2015, 06:59:53 »
A question about the Rifleman II, is this in essence the 'Royal Rifleman' or was there actually also a Royal Rifleman as well?  The Rifleman II is still a formidable machine and whilst built for mid to close range punch ups i'd not want to be on the reciving end of its guns in a modern design.

No, it is not a proper "Royal" machine (it would instead have the designation RFL-2Nb or the like), but instead an example of what the Star League could truly field, as opposed to the rightly-derided designs from TR2750. Its existence is a bit of an in-joke, poking fun at the interminable Gray Noton debates, but it is a fully-canon machine that was produced in some limited numbers. If I was to come up with an explanation of its designation, I'd say that it is the "true" RFL-3N, but because it was produced so late in the Amaris Civil War and knowledge of it was lost, that code was given to the classic 60-ton machine we know so well. Once rediscovered, whoever was tasked with coming up with a new designation took the easy way out and just appended "-2."

However, keep in mind that just because a unit was in the "Royal" section of a Technical Readout doesn't mean that knowledge of it was lost. In Warrior: Coupe, pg. 223 (FASA edition), we have this from the mind of Andrew Redburn: "I've seen specs for my new 'Mech, and I've seen the same data for a Star League model of my Marauder. Even after 300 years, one of those antique Marauders would make mine look sick." Even in some of the earliest fiction for the game, it was well-established that people knew, in general and in some cases very specifically, what was lost. 25 (real) years later, we finally see what those machines were really like, and yeah, the MAD-2R makes the -3R look very, very sick in comparison.

tldr: Gray Noton wasn't piloting a RFL-3N-2. <sits back and basks in the flames> ;D
« Last Edit: 31 January 2015, 07:09:27 by ColBosch »
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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #28 on: 31 January 2015, 07:46:52 »
And as for the whole Gray Noton thing, Record Sheets: 3055 Upgrade has three record sheets for his Legend Killer in the back. Two custom RFL-3Ns and one custom RFL-3N-2. So basically you can run it however you want to...

Really? I wish they had added those to the 3055 Upgrade Record Sheet compilation then (or the appropriate ones, otherwise).

mbear

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II
« Reply #29 on: 02 February 2015, 09:58:07 »
It's actually due to an error behind the scenes, but feel free to keep trying to justify it. ;)
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