Tell me about....Jump Infantry

[Hellraiser]

Karnovs aside, what are your other favorite vehicles for deploying jump infantry or carrying them around the battlefield?

Nothing. Is there something better?

I'm with CH.  Karnov is my default as well.
That said, if you were going a really long way, Planet Lifters.

A while back I had a side project I was working on to build an RCT from the various TW + 3085 Infantry types & used the 4th SW Atlas Mechanized Infantry Regiment Template.
1 Battalion of Foot (Para) Troopers,  1 Battalion of actual Jump Infantry,  1 Battalion of Transports/Escorts that was composed of a Company of 12 Karnov, Company of 12 Warriors, & Company/Squadron of 6 Planet Lifters, or something close to that IIRC.

[glitterboy2098]

There is a picture of them in the original MW RPG IIRC.
They use Hand Controls.
And I don't believe they shoot while jumping.
They jump to navigate obstacles & land from air deployment, but they seem to fight while standing on the ground.

sarna's pic.. from one of the merc handbooks.



compare it to some real world jetpacks..

Bell rocket Belt at Super Bowl I in 1967. had a 20 second flight time using hydrogen peroxide monopropellant.


the WR19 turbojet powered pack, 1965. had a 25 minute flying time.

[solmanian]

Reflex are probably the most important, since they're trained to fire while in the air, probably at the peak of the arc.

Shock troops, definitely, since IIRC shoving them out of a dropper for orbital insertion is a thing. And they hit the ground a lot faster than paratrooper, which can subjectively be considered a positive thing.

Ideal for Anti-Mech operations. Who needs a grappling hook when you can boost at the cockpit, stick a demo-brick to the canopy and mip-mip the hell outa there before anyone's the wiser.

Also great for urban operations. being able to quickly move from street level to rooftop, bouncing from roof to roof. They would be really difficult to intercept.

Their biggest asset is speed; strategic speed, that is. Almost like a battlemech, they can quickly deployed to just about anywhere anytime.

The FWL VTOL infantry? Now that taking it to the next level. Closest thing we got to "sky troopers".

[ijewett]

The Cavalry with the 4 ton bay has been my go to for BA, I'd probably use it for Jump Infantry as well, if BA wasn't available.

Big fan of this one also. It can even do a bit of combat if badly pressed. The Karnov falls out of the sky if anyone looks at it sideways. That said I recently bought a Cavalry Infiltrator (in campaign) and want to give it a go at dropping off specops. 

[Alan Grant]

Starleague Sourcebook has then bouncing from rooftop to rooftop during the coup trying to get into the Throne Room, then fighting down the halls, another minute & Amaris would have been dead before he ever controlled the TH.

There's an interesting urban combat tactic....

[Kidd]

Starleague Sourcebook has then bouncing from rooftop to rooftop during the coup trying to get into the Throne Room, then fighting down the halls, another minute & Amaris would have been dead before he ever controlled the TH.

that was a great touch, its the little near-misses like that which adds to the drama of history. Like how WW1 could've been averted.

Second the Cavalry BA. Probably my favourite general purpose VTOL.

[Alan Grant]

It's interesting to try an analyze the tactical ramifications of the jump pack.

Chain link fence in the way? Jump over it. Wall? Jump over it. Need to bypass a hardened fixed urban position? Run along building rooftops. Need to assault a skyscraper? blow out some windows on an upper level and jump into it from a VTOL. Need to assault a surface water vessel? Pull up along side and jump from one hull to the other.

Come under long range indirect artillery fire? Jump out of the kill zone. Discover a fortified MG position in front of you? Jump to flank it.

I'm not saying it's good for all occasions, it isn't, it potentially tells everyone in the area where you are just as if you'd shot up a flare. But deciphering what it is good for at a practical level is kinda fun, especially trying to come up with options you maybe hadn't thought of before. Gets the creative brain juices flowing...

[Col.Hengist]

Better yet, if you want to assault a surface water vessel? Take monitors and their attached jump infantry squad.

[nerd]

Better yet, if you want to assault a surface water vessel? Take monitors and their attached jump infantry squad.

"AWAY BOARDERS" from 3 hexes!

Also, good for herding pesky guerillas back into the killzone.

[Hellraiser]

I think the big thing to recognize is these are not "Toads", they don't bouncy bouncy shooty across the battlefield.
Looking at the real world backpack shown above & the realization that they have no reinforced leg actuators to support their weight.
They use the jetpack for a controlled jump & then land & fight as Leg infantry.
If they actually fought like toads they would all shatter their knee joints in the first minute of combat.  That or they would take so long landing every time that they get shot up as they slowly hover/land softly.

Using that SLSB example, I'd imagine they hop from one building edge to the other, then run the length of the building on foot, then stage up for another short hop across the alley/street to get to the next building.

[solmanian]

Fluff says they're trained to shoot mid-jump... Fighting on the ground like PBI negates their main advantage.

[Welshman]

Fluff says they're trained to shoot mid-jump... Fighting on the ground like PBI negates their main advantage.

You'll notice the little tubes on the backpack of the trooper. That's the SRM launcher.

Jump troops have more advanced versions of the weapons used by their foot brethren. The more advanced likely have HUDs displays with "look, shoot" systems.

And reality is they probably need to have some kind of mechanical leg braces to help absorb the shock. Back when  this art was done, reality was not as big a factor in the game. Cool art was.  If you look at the RAF Jump Trooper in TRO3085s you'll see a big pivot hinge on the side of the knee. The braces are under the pant leg above and probably incorporated into the boot below.

In retrospect, I should have asked the artist to gimble mount the rifle so it was more obvious that it could be fired while jumping. We'll just say he's got it dismounted from the gimble right now and it's stowed away. :)

The Stone's Track SpecOps trooper is also using a jump pack. You'll notice it only has one control. As a SpecOps trooper most of the controls are probably built into the HUD with the big handle being more of a manual override. This allows the trooper greater flexibility. If they need to drop the jump pack quickly, they don't lose their weapon. As SpecOps, the jump pack is more for mobility than for combat maneuver.

[Col.Hengist]

I think the big thing to recognize is these are not "Toads", they don't bouncy bouncy shooty across the battlefield.
Looking at the real world backpack shown above & the realization that they have no reinforced leg actuators to support their weight.
They use the jetpack for a controlled jump & then land & fight as Leg infantry.
If they actually fought like toads they would all shatter their knee joints in the first minute of combat.  That or they would take so long landing every time that they get shot up as they slowly hover/land softly.

Using that SLSB example, I'd imagine they hop from one building edge to the other, then run the length of the building on foot, then stage up for another short hop across the alley/street to get to the next building.

 Good thing this isn't reality because I use them just like toads.

[Hellraiser]

Good thing this isn't reality because I use them just like toads.

Meh, who doesn't?  I'm just say there is a difference between what we like them to do on the CBT map & how they probably work.

[Hellraiser]

Fluff says they're trained to shoot mid-jump... Fighting on the ground like PBI negates their main advantage.

What fluff?  Can you provide a source?
Every description of Jump Infantry I can find says they are very hard to train & use the Jump Pack to overcome terrain/obstacles not shoot from the air.
We could even look at the RPG-MW3 game where using a Jet Pack took up an Action & you could NOT shoot in the same phase.

[Hellraiser]

You'll notice the little tubes on the backpack of the trooper. That's the SRM launcher. 

Actually Welsh, that picture is from MW1 & is fluffed as being used for marking targets.
The Anti-Mech SRM Launcher is a much larger shoulder fired weapon.

And reality is they probably need to have some kind of mechanical leg braces to help absorb the shock. Back when  this art was done, reality was not as big a factor in the game. 

I'm all for some braces in art but I'm still not sure I'm buying into their moving/shooting like Toads.
IMO, If they could actually do that then the Toads wouldn't have needed to be introduced.
Not to mention if they actually jumped everywhere they'd run out of fuel fairly quickly.

Heck even mechwarriors in the books have to focus hard to make sure they land properly when they use Jumpjets & there's no trauma to their legs.  I'm having a hard time picturing the controlled fall that is using a jetpack in the manner-frequency that the CBT game lets us do it.

[Col.Hengist]

Toads have armor. I know you know that, but that's  the big reason they were introduced.

[UnLimiTeD]

I think firing from above is rather impractical, you more or less have only one hand free, or you need some serious artistic talent, and you won't be accurate at all.
I can see them dropping a grenade, but accurately firing a rifle, that sort of needs a targeting computer.

[Scotty]

I think firing from above is rather impractical, you more or less have only one hand free, or you need some serious artistic talent, and you won't be accurate at all.
I can see them dropping a grenade, but accurately firing a rifle, that sort of needs a targeting computer.

Or the jetpack isn't linked to arm controls all the time, or the jetpack has weapon mounts rather than the weapon being carried separately.

[Welshman]

So the intent is that Jump Infantry can fire while moving or when on the ground. We recognize that art has not been great at showing how things would work and we have never gone into details.

- Yes, jump infantry would need some kind of head up display to assist with targeting.

- Rifle Jump infantry probably shoot while jumping the least.

- Elementals were introduced because of the armor, not because they could fire while jumping.

- At the end of the day, none of this changes game mechanics, so whatever works for you.

[solmanian]

What fluff?  Can you provide a source?
Every description of Jump Infantry I can find says they are very hard to train & use the Jump Pack to overcome terrain/obstacles not shoot from the air.
We could even look at the RPG-MW3 game where using a Jet Pack took up an Action & you could NOT shoot in the same phase.

TechManual p.272, the part about infantry motive systems.

[Hellraiser]

So the intent is that Jump Infantry can fire while moving or when on the ground. We recognize that art has not been great at showing how things would work and we have never gone into details.

- Yes, jump infantry would need some kind of head up display to assist with targeting.

- Rifle Jump infantry probably shoot while jumping the least.

- Elementals were introduced because of the armor, not because they could fire while jumping.

- At the end of the day, none of this changes game mechanics, so whatever works for you.

I'm all for having fun while playing a game.
After all, while it might be realistic to have a Move or Shoot rule for Jump like Foot Support Weapon platoons, It would take away all the fun of playing with them.
I'm just thinking of the realities of shooting while trying to stay balanced in a controlled fall.  Great for Hollywood, not so great for reality  ;)

[Hellraiser]

TechManual p.272, the part about infantry motive systems.

Yes, I found this not 5 minutes ago. 
Nothing in BMR, TW, 4 Field Manuals, etc etc.  Then finally found that 1 line. 
I still don't buy it as something that works outside of a Hollywood film  :D

[Welshman]

I still don't buy it as something that works outside of a Hollywood film  :D

I would point out the main character in this film is a 10 meter tall robot with techno-organic musculature, a super complex gyro and a human pilot who uses their sense of balance to keep the machine upright and moving at freeway speeds.

The entire game is based on several "Hollywood" premises that we all suspend our disbelief on to allow the game to be enjoyable.

Jump Packs in BattleTech are not just an evolution of the ones we have today. They draw on the same technology and learning that allows a 50 ton BattleMech to fly 180 meters (about two football fields) and land without any damage.

So welcome to Hollywood and have fun shooting womp rats.  :)

[solmanian]

Frankly, I figured that being true to their role as shock troops, they'll gravitate toward shock weapons with high-risk/high-reward. Like shotguns, "noob tubes"  ;) or dual-wielding SMGs; because WTH... You ain't gonna be accurate, might as well throw a lot of firepower at the enemy general direction; at the very least, you'll supress them.

[Hellraiser]

Jump Packs in BattleTech are not just an evolution of the ones we have today. They draw on the same technology and learning that allows a 50 ton BattleMech to fly 180 meters (about two football fields) and land without any damage.

So welcome to Hollywood and have fun shooting womp rats.  :)

I was thinking about how a 90m jump at freefall speeds will take 4 seconds just to land & that is nearly half the combat turn & if slowed down to avoid splatting will take more than the entire combat turn is long............. and then I decided your right & its best not to think about this too much.


What IS a womp rat anyway?  Has anyone ever seen a womp rat?  And why would you shoot them with a starfighter?

[Welshman]

Did we mention each jump pack comes with a TARDIS built into it? :)

Welcome to FASA physics, try not to think to hard on it, you'll break it.

[Shatara]

I think of them as elite Airborne/Air Assualt troops. I tend to stick with lighter weapons, since while small arms can get by on rule of cool, there aren't enough suspenders in the multiverse to hold up the idea that these guys can service Support Machine Guns and Heavy Recoilless Rifles while bouncing around like Daffy Duck.

[Martius]

TRO 3085 shows some Jump Troopers with rather heavy waponry, the support weapons just part of the Jump Module/Jump pack.

Look at the lady from the 292nd League Regulars- you can see sophisticated targetting gear, ammo and the missle launcher. OTOH you have the Gurkha- who carries a rifle and normal backpack like jump pack.

So there is a lot of variety.

[Col.Hengist]

we're killing catgirl in this thread  :'(