Author Topic: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?  (Read 4375 times)

abou

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Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« on: 07 January 2016, 20:02:34 »
This has been an idea I've been thinking about for about a year now. The main driver is that there is no longer a good place to play games in my area with terrain, which would always be a venue where the community could gather. Essentially, it would be a storefront where there would be gaming tables, terrain, and beer. The main bonus is that there would be no merchandise to sell, which means my only overhead is beer and the fixed costs of running a business.

My thought was a cover per day to play as long as you want. In between rounds or games, you can have a round of beer and snacks. Ideally it would all be on draught. No drinking at the tables, of course.

Pros:
1. The majority of the gaming community seems to be older, tastes have changed, and they like to drink beer.
2. No merchandise means competition with other hobby stores is nonexistent.
3. Fills a niche -- or rather creates a niche -- as no one else in my area has done something similar.
4. Low fixed costs.

Cons:
1. May be difficult to find the right location.
2. Paperwork.
3. Overestimating potential enthusiasm.
4. Underestimating potential costs.

As I've said, it's just something I have been thinking about. I would be curious as to the community's opinions or whether anyone has seen something similar. It may never happen, but it would be nice.

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #1 on: 07 January 2016, 20:06:30 »
One of the game stores in my area has a liquor license and uses the vast majority of its floorspace for gaming tales.  It's working out pretty well for the owner thus far.  (He doesn't use a cover as he still has a small area of the building set aside as a store... be he does let us take our drinks to the tables!)
« Last Edit: 07 January 2016, 20:12:05 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #2 on: 07 January 2016, 21:05:28 »
Okay, just in case you don't know anything about running a business - everything is going to take allot more work than you think, everything is going to cost more than you think, take longer than you think and unless you're already wealthy, tie you down to the management and operation of the business as long as it is a going concern meaning long days, no vacations and allot more stress. If you're fine with all that, then welcome to small business. :D

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #3 on: 07 January 2016, 21:10:13 »
And it being a bar mean you have to prohibit those younger than 21. Might be problematic if you want new blood to the gaming community.
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abou

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #4 on: 07 January 2016, 21:12:22 »
I wouldn't want drinking at the table mainly because of worries about spills. The risk just seems to be too high.

In regards to running a small business, I am a veterinarian and run my own clinic. I guess since I have a source of primary income, this would really be a vanity project and I would have worker drones do all the work for me. I should have mentioned that in my original post.

GreekFire

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #5 on: 07 January 2016, 21:37:13 »
Something that's *highly* popular where I'm at is board game bars. Not quite what you're talking about, but they're incredibly accessible to the general public.

Maybe there'd be a way to combine what appears to be a proven concept (I know of four in my general region, and they're all always packed, sometimes with line-ups) with your wargaming idea? Attract both casual customers and serious wargamers at the same time?
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #6 on: 07 January 2016, 23:47:42 »
And it being a bar mean you have to prohibit those younger than 21. Might be problematic if you want new blood to the gaming community.

That's a big one. At the very least, you're cutting out an ENORMOUS bit of revenue in terms of game sales and other merchandise due to this. Yes, you make money on alcohol sales, but take the beers and such you sell and weigh it against how much you lose from not having gamers under the drinking age allowed in. At the least, keep the sales area of the store booze-free, but that's something to seriously consider- I suspect it's one of the key reasons places like this aren't common.

Another consideration- and I speak about this as a former bartender- is that booze can be a problem for some people. A lot of people handle alcohol by being cheerful, drinking responsibly, etc... and some do, ah, not that. Are you ready for people who have too much and stumble onto a table full of miniatures, breaking them? Booze-fueled rules lawyer fights? Security to remove problems? This isn't anything to take lightly- after watching football fans fight over something happening on a screen that they have no control over, having gamers fight over rules and such is potentially a huge problem.

I love the idea though, and I really wish there was something like that near me.
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Bosefius

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #7 on: 08 January 2016, 00:35:46 »
Don't some states allow someone under 21 in bars as long as they have a wristband/stamp showing they can't drink?
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #8 on: 08 January 2016, 00:52:55 »
Don't some states allow someone under 21 in bars as long as they have a wristband/stamp showing they can't drink?

And very, very stiff penalties if those people are caught with alcohol in there. My bar used to get hit with stings every so often- people paid by the police to come in and order drinks to see if they got carded or not, to see if they could spot people under 21 drinking (served by the bartender/wait staff or just enjoying the drinks of someone over 21 at the table, either way)... didn't get caught myself, because I didn't like the idea of going to jail, but they did fire a bartender on the spot for it on one of my nights off- some girl was caught sneaking her boyfriends' drink, and the bar was responsible for it legally.

Now make it a game store, and you can imagine the double-whammy of not only having the whole minors-being-served issue combined with the very business of selling games to people of all ages...
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Drop Bear

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #9 on: 08 January 2016, 00:55:15 »
also think about having a "Wet" and a "Dry" area.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #10 on: 08 January 2016, 01:07:33 »
The gaming store that I normally play at put in a 21 and over section last year where you can buy drinks.  Most of our Battletech games get run there, since there's typically less noise and competition for space.  I don't know about trying to make money off of a bar with gaming space, though.  Though I do know of a bar that's also a video arcade.  It opens in the afternoon and doesn't serve alcohol until around 8pm, at which point minors are no longer permitted inside.

I would recommend seeing if there are any Small Business Development Centers in your area.  They're really good at helping you figure out all the licensing you'd need and what your income and expenses are likely to be.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2016, 01:09:24 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Cannonshop

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #11 on: 08 January 2016, 01:54:24 »
they've actually got one of those in Everett, Wa. called the AFK lounge-it's fairly popular and likely profitable.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #12 on: 08 January 2016, 01:56:44 »
The store I was talking about in my area was definitely not a bar that happens to provide gaming tables.  It's a gaming store that happens to sell booze.  They're not necessarily the same thing at all.

Grey

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #13 on: 08 January 2016, 02:24:52 »
Not quite the same thing but I started, in partnership with knowledgeable and motivated others (trust me, those are very, very important) a games store that mostly does board games, that also serves coffee. We have a games library and charge a flat fee for the full day, we also have a table fee for playing your own games which attracts a few RPGs. We've been told by people many times, mostly tourists, that there are bars that do board games, usually the traditional ones like Monopoly, Scrabble and Risk, but between the two I think you can take it that as a business model it's an idea that can work.

That being said the year has been extremely challenging, both in terms of growing the business, simply keeping our heads above water and minor trials and disasters that you just never see coming, or with hindsight realise they're pretty obvious. And don't get me started on some of the people issues.

While the games library is proving popular (it's good for play before you buy which has helped us out several times) it's slow going, but we do have some regular gaming groups coming in, and they do buy refreshments.

On the plus side it sounds like you've identified a need, or an opportunity, making plans and asking for advice. Those last two are important, take your time with them, and don't ever stop. Even in the last year I've gotten advice from knowledgeable people that have helped make a difference.

Keep in mind that regardless it will be stressful, will eat into your time, you'll never have enough money, especially in the beginning and there will always be costs, monetary and otherwise, with everything you do, and a few things you don't.

Sorry if this has turned into a bit of a rant, or TL;DR.

That's the challenge of owning and operating a business though, there's never a dull moment. Dammit.

E6010Roots

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #14 on: 08 January 2016, 14:12:21 »
I have though of a scheme like this before, but always framed it as a private/social club kind of approach. Maybe have a small storefront to bring people in and the club area through the back. People have to be a member to enter and drink and maybe run it as an open space on certain days for minors.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #15 on: 08 January 2016, 14:31:22 »
Making it some sort of exclusive club with a membership requirement is pretty much guaranteeing that it it will fail.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #16 on: 08 January 2016, 14:41:18 »
Making it some sort of exclusive club with a membership requirement is pretty much guaranteeing that it it will fail.

Pretty much. Would you go to a game store where you had to pay a membership fee to be able to use the tables? I know I wouldn't (and it's come up before). What about a bar that did that? Nah, no thanks- there's a thousand other places for me to get a drink where I don't have to pay a fee just to have the option to drink there.

So... just because we're combining the two doesn't mean that makes that idea any more appealing.
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abou

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #17 on: 08 January 2016, 14:49:50 »
Thanks for all the replies, guys. It's given me a lot to think about.

As first brought up by Hobbes, the bar does eliminate -- or at least act as a barrier to -- potential new blood. However, one of the problems I foresee is that the space for four, five, or even six terrain tables means a lot of square footage; which translates to a high cost in rent. Booze seems to be a good way to offset those costs compared to having a bunch of merchandise on the shelves. BattleTech is my love, but from a business standpoint I know I cannot have a lot of minis and books in inventory because it is not that popular.

One thing I did not consider was making it a more generalized venue. It is supposed to be a new golden age of board games. That could bring in a much bigger crowd and the terrain tables may be more of a guilty pleasure. Then it's just a matter of attracting the right people and the right crowd.

Jackmc

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #18 on: 08 January 2016, 14:51:52 »
And it being a bar mean you have to prohibit those younger than 21. Might be problematic if you want new blood to the gaming community.

Please localize the OP before saying stuff like this which is incorrect in certain areas.  Frex.  In much of the Midwest US, it's ok for minors to be present where alcohol is served as long as they are not drinking.   In other places/areas, it's legal to have beer and/or wine at "all ages" pizza or Italian restaurants.

To the OP, if you consider also carrying a limited selection of gaming merchandise priced with a "convenience store" markup, you essentially be replicating the new model of games store that has evolved to deal with the age of online retail. 

-Jackmc
« Last Edit: 08 January 2016, 15:11:05 by Jackmc »


Marwynn

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #19 on: 08 January 2016, 14:56:26 »
Booze may be more of a hindrance. Here in Toronto I could probably do okay if I sold lattes and bubble tea (plus some light snacks) for some people who wanted to play. In fact, some bubble tea places have boardgames already. Really does depend on your area.

Snakes and Lattes here does the same thing, though of course not for wargames.

idea weenie

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #20 on: 08 January 2016, 18:55:15 »
Don't some states allow someone under 21 in bars as long as they have a wristband/stamp showing they can't drink?

It likely works the other way around.  You have to show ID to get the wristband/stamp.  If you lose the wristband, you have to get ID's all over again.  Add in a small fee (recouped when buying your first drink) to help make sure people don't lose their wristband.

Otherwise, you'd have someone under 21 who gets the wristband, then cuts it off to go drinking.

Drop Bear

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #21 on: 08 January 2016, 19:30:45 »
Check your local/State licensing laws, it may be cheaper and easier to open as a "Club", get adjoining tenancies, nominate one as the "Club House" (where there is Booze & Tables) and the other as a "Club Venue" (where there are Tables and everything else), charge a $1 "Life Membership" put out a Guest sign in book, you can even rent the Clubhouse and Venue out for Guild events and such, don't let unaccompanied minors in to the Club House in your licensed hours or Booze out of the Clubhouse.

Heck for extra cash you may even be able to get a Gaming License for the Clubhouse and put in Keno, Pokies and a Betting Shop.

E6010Roots

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #22 on: 08 January 2016, 20:20:32 »
Drop bear articulated my idea a fair bit better than myself, its not like charge people $500 dollars a year to game. More of a shell corp sorta deal to isolate your interests. And I imagine if its a club and not a buisness you can serve alcohol in a more relaxed manner. Kinda like a motorcycle club house, or the Dave attell's Insominac type establishments that gave me the idea lol
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Drop Bear

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #23 on: 08 January 2016, 21:21:39 »
I don't know if they do it in other parts of the world but down hear Community Sports clubs can get licensed to serve Alcohol and even get Gaming Licenses to let them have Porkies (Slots), Keno, Sports/OT  betting. (your Kids Little league and your adult sand lot, majority funded by the local Drunks and Degenerate Gamblers).

It's usually cheaper to be a licensed Club than say a Pub, Bar or Night-Club or a Fully Licensed Restaurant.

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #24 on: 08 January 2016, 22:24:21 »
I would strongly recommend against putting in any sort of gambling unless you really want to create a bar with gaming as a side attraction.
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abou

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #25 on: 08 January 2016, 22:27:36 »
I'm currently living in Joliet, IL. It's one of those towns that has gorgeous architecture in an empty downtown. Part of the problem is how the city is managed. I want to be careful about not stepping into discussions of politics, but I feel it is unavoidable here. When it comes to Joliet, many things are talked about and planned, but rarely seem to come to fruition. As a result, more businesses seem to start in neighboring Plainfield or further north in Naperville. Naturally, something close to me is preferred.

If the local and states regulations could be navigated, it is possible I could get a good location for a decent price. Downtown Joliet does have a pinball arcade that somehow survives -- so why not my concept?

Coffee, beer, and board games. Ha! We could even serve PPCs.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #26 on: 08 January 2016, 22:56:57 »
Isn't serving PPCs counterproductive from the standpoint of keeping your customers awake and able to play Battletech?
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abou

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #27 on: 08 January 2016, 23:29:44 »
Like being back in college: no better way to end the night than with carbombs.

Drop Bear

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #28 on: 08 January 2016, 23:46:21 »
I would strongly recommend against putting in any sort of gambling unless you really want to create a bar with gaming as a side attraction.

I was pointing it out as an option we have for Community Clubs, also as a Club you can put up advertising around your Venue/Field and Club House without as much cost regulation and oversight from the authorities than than if you ran it as a business.

But (at least by the Laws in my parts) if you run it as a Club you have to have a Board elected by your full members (your $1 memberships can be classified as Social Memberships so don't get a Vote).

Luciora

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Re: Idea for a business: Bar and wargamming venue?
« Reply #29 on: 09 January 2016, 09:40:50 »
Why not a coffee/cafe idea instead?  A local game store for me is opening up a coffee bar in an adjoining area.  I think that might have a broader appeal.

 

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