Clan ultra AC/5: what's the point?

[willydstyle]

When Clan LRMs can put 5-damage clusters down range for much less weight, with no chance of jamming, what's the point?

[Youngblood]

When Clan Large Pulse Lasers can put 10-damage clusters down range for much less weight with increased accuracy, with no chance of jamming or exploding, what's the point?

When Clan ERPPCs can put 15-damage clusters down range for much less weight, with no chance of jamming, what's the point?

Because LRMs don't dakka, that's that point.

[Ratwedge]

Because LRMs don't dakka, that's that point.

This. This so much.

[Stormfury]

I think the real killer is that for 3 tons and three less hexes of range, you can pack the LB or Ultra series of A/C.

You don't lose that much in the transition; the smaller A/C calibres are unusual on Clan machines due to the effectiveness of their laser systems.

[LastChanceCav]

When Clan LRMs can put 5-damage clusters down range for much less weight, with no chance of jamming, what's the point?

I don't think this issue is exclusive to the Clan version of the UAC5.

Cheers,
LCC

[Thatguybil]

Heat and shots / ton

Not the best reasons , but reasons none the less.

[Diamondshark]

I don't think this issue is exclusive to the Clan version of the UAC5.

Cheers,
LCC

Yeah, but the super-light Clan LRMs are what make the difference. 

The only advantage I can think of is that the UAC-5 is not affected by (L)AMS, Reflective, or Reactive armor, just Hardened and Ferro-Lamellor.  That's not common enough to be too big of a deal, though.

[Demos]

Because LRMs don't dakka, that's that point.

Really, the best explanation of all!

In the standard BT-Play AC(of all kind) are very inefficient (Hey, I love AC's!).
In-universe there is the chance, that the AC have a hidden advantage, which enable them to compete with e.g. missiles. This is best reflected in the S7-Dueling Rules or the computer games: the recycle time. You can fire an AC more often in a given time with less heat.
Let's face it: our beloved game is just an abstration, not a reflection of "reality".

EDIT: correct a typo.

[willydstyle]

Really, the best explanation of all!

In the standard BT-Play AC(of all kind) are very inefficient (Hey, I love AC's!).
In-universe there is the chance, that the AC have a hidden advantage, which enable them to compete with e.g. missiles. This is best reflected in the S7-Dueling Rules or the computer games: the recycle time. You can fire an AC more often in a given time with less heat.
Let's face it: our beloved game is ust an abstration, not a reflection of "reality".

I think the AC/10 and even the oft-malingned AC/5 have a decent role as low-heat, decent-range weapons in 3025 play, the AC10 especially, because of it's lack of minimum range.

[I am Belch II]

To have a better gun then the IS AC/5. Many Clan weapons can be replaced by other Clan weapons, and be a better mech.

[Spheroid]

perhaps there is an economic rationale.  The Kingfisher is fluffed as having a bidding advantage because of its cheaper standard engine, maybe the expense of multiple LRMs and their associated ammo works against them in a similar fashion.

[A. Lurker]

There are two main reasons to use autocannons (and large ballistic weapons in general):

1.) You think they're cool and want them on your 'Mechs et al. because of that. No, really, that's a perfectly valid excuse. I use it myself. :)

2.) You can spare the weight for them and their ammo more easily than you can spare the room for a lighter weapon and its attendant heat sinks. This one comes up mainly at the heavy/assault end of things and really only applies to 'Mechs since other unit types don't consider heat sinks distinct items for space purposes in the first place.

Their main advantages over missiles are more easily concentrated damage (though that doesn't apply so well to UAC/5 vs. LRMs in particular), somewhat lower heat, and immunity to anti-missile systems. Their main drawback is, well, mass.

[Shijima_3085]

Have a  look in TechManual for weapon and reload costs.  I know, economics for the Clans are a little different (and this will sound like a Diamond Shark merchant), but by the values in the book it could be easier and faster to produce both the weapon and ammunition for cannons than missiles.  I don't think its covered in the repair/maintenance rules but I would think cannons would also be easier to both repair and maintain.

[Istal_Devalis]

An Ultra Ac/5 is only 2 heat at full firing rate.
An LRM-10 is 4.

The only other advantage the AC has is less vulnerability to certain defensive systems.

[Kit deSummersville]

The AC can be used with a TarComp, the missiles cannot.
The AC does 5 points of damage a hit, the missiles do an average of 3.

I'm not sure how the Jupiter would work with LRM-5s instead of ACs. Drop 4 ACs, add 8 LRM-5s and 2 more tons of ammo, now we've got 18 tons and two crits. Drop the ES and add four DHS, still leaves us with 9 tons and one crit. I dunno, I'd leave the ACs there.

ETA: Oh, and the ACs are much better in high winds.

[Fear Factory]

ETA: Oh, and the ACs are much better in high winds.

AND in high-heat environments.

[Nibs]

ETA: Oh, and the ACs are much better in high winds.

The most unappreciated weather condition in BattleTech!  :D

[dirty harry]

There was a need for a 5 class AC as there was always an AC 5 between an AC Ping (a.k.a. AC 2) and an AC Boom (AC 20).
Without special conditions hardly any other clan weapon system is a good substitute for a single U/AC 5. There are only few chances that your Clanmech runs out of slots instead out of necessary tons (larger and with lightweight material loaded mechs still do...), so the only advantage is its extremly low heat.

[Beukeboom Fan]

I think that the AC ammo is also much less expensive on a per ton basis that LRM ammo if I remember correctly.  (Not that that impacts gameplay in any way whatsoever!)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Have a  look in TechManual for weapon and reload costs.  I know, economics for the Clans are a little different (and this will sound like a Diamond Shark merchant), but by the values in the book it could be easier and faster to produce both the weapon and ammunition for cannons than missiles.  I don't think its covered in the repair/maintenance rules but I would think cannons would also be easier to both repair and maintain.

Which makes the Blood Kite fluff pretty funny.

[JPArbiter]

LRMs are less consistent then Autocannons.  with an LRM 5 you know you will be dealing UP TO 5 points of damage, with an LRM ten, anywhere from 3 to 10 with 7 being average, you are only guaranteed 5 points of damage on a 20 Rack which has considerably less ammunition and endurance, for more heat.

an AC five has a solid 5 point hit on target at decent range for low heat, and if you double tap a good 40% chance of a second 5 point hit on the target.

and then there is the Helen Miran Factor.  remember in the movie RED when Helen Miran was firing a .50 cal with a smile on her face like it was doing "special" things for her.  you don't get that with LRMs or lasers