Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn

[HobbesHurlbut]

Jihad Era Refit for Rifleman C Blood Spirit is posted.

[alex blood spirit]

Did the Spirit,s have blood named Protomech bloodnames

[StCptMara]

Did the Spirit,s have blood named Protomech bloodnames

This is kind of tricky. Technically, since all their Protomech pilots were True Born, they did qualify for Bloodnames, however, I think there is only a single, canonical Protomech pilot to have earned a Bloodname.

[Sjhernan3060]

This is kind of tricky. Technically, since all their Protomech pilots were True Born, they did qualify for Bloodnames, however, I think there is only a single, canonical Protomech pilot to have earned a Bloodname.

Do you recall which blood house they were from?

[Wolf72]

Most Many should be from aerospace bloodlines, if they were used.  Not every clan was gung-ho on going for the aerospace phenotype and either went with standard trueborn or a mixed result too (no hard evidence, but I recall reading something about this ... although it could have been on an early incarnation of the message boards fwiw.)

[tassa_kay]

This is kind of tricky. Technically, since all their Protomech pilots were True Born, they did qualify for Bloodnames, however, I think there is only a single, canonical Protomech pilot to have earned a Bloodname.

Iris McFadden, in the Cecerops entry in TRO 3075.

[Stormlion1]

Iris McFadden, in the Cecerops entry in TRO 3075.

Would make sense that it's a Aerospace genetic line and the Spirits were tge first to push the Protomech phenotype.

[alex blood spirit]

how many Protomech designs did the Spirit's have

[HobbesHurlbut]

how many Protomech designs did the Spirit's have

The Master Unit List give that answer.

[alex blood spirit]

During the Wars of Reaving what if the Spirit's joined with the Scorpions and moved towards the Inner Shpere.

[tassa_kay]

During the Wars of Reaving what if the Spirit's joined with the Scorpions and moved towards the Inner Shpere.

Ironically, years before the WoR book came out, I was running the Blood Spirits in the FGC on the old forums and had them take over Nueva Castile. 

[ColBosch]

I think it would've been a great deal of fun to have the Blood Spirits do the last-minute Invasion instead of the Ice Hellions.

[tassa_kay]

Hard pass on seeing the Spirits follow up on the Absorption War with another ill-conceived "let's throw our whole touman in here, what could go wrong?!" venture.

[Stormlion1]

Moving elsewhere would have been a good idea. Heaven knows they were used to being self supporting and there are plenty of worlds fhey could have moved to and taken over in the Periphery or even into the Inner Sphere. They had Star League era star charts. They could have moved to worlds that have fallen off the maps!

[Gaiiten]

They should have ended the feud with the Star Adders. Shortly after the Absorption War. Getting rid of Karianna Schmitt (and all those of their leadership responsible for the desaster of interferring the Burock Absórption).
This would have freed up resources and they could have begun an invasion.

[StCptMara]

They should have ended the feud with the Star Adders. Shortly after the Absorption War. Getting rid of Karianna Schmitt (and all those of their leadership responsible for the desaster of interferring the Burock Absórption).
This would have freed up resources and they could have begun an invasion.

From a practical perspective, yes. Then again, hindsight also says the Burrocks should have been Annihilated, not Absorbed. In fact, if that had been the case, the whole Wars of Reaving might not have happened. However, I think the bad blood between the Adders and the Spirits was already so firmly entrenched at that time, that neither side would have made peace. I think that if the Adders had chosen to give an olive branch to the Spirits after the Wars of Reaving, however...Had reminded them of why The Founder created their Clan, perhaps things could have fared differently. The Spirits were not wanting to trust others. If their "great enemies" had been the ones to move for peace, instead of just destroy them, perhaps...

I feel this classic quote is the epitaph of Clan Blood Spirit:
"For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.'"- John Greenleaf Whittier

[tassa_kay]

From a practical perspective, yes. Then again, hindsight also says the Burrocks should have been Annihilated, not Absorbed.

I'll go a step farther: the Star Adders should not have simply been handed the Absorption the way they were to begin with. There was no bidding involved between the Clans that we ever saw mention of, with the Absorption going to the Clan that bids the lowest, and I find it impossible to believe that the conservatively-bidding Star Adders would beat out the Spirits... or even most of the other Clans, to be honest.

I also firmly believe that Ben Rome missed a big opportunity during the WoR to have the Adders approach the Spirits after the reborn Burrocks were discovered and extend an olive branch to them by letting the Spirits get in on their destruction. I feel like, with all of the bad blood between the two Clans (and let's not fool ourselves here, the Adders hated the Spirits every bit as much as the Spirits hated them), that might've been the one truly extraordinary circumstance that would get them to see beyond that mutual hatred to a truly common enemy.

But simply saying "they should have ended the feud with the Star Adders", especially given the fact that the Adders were pursuing that feud every bit as much (moreso, actually) as the Spirits were, is a silly notion. The Adders certainly had no desire to end their feud, and made a point to escalate their bullying of the Spirits until, eventually, they decided that wiping out tens of millions of people on York was somehow morally justified. That feud was only ever going to end the way that it did. 

[Gaiiten]

The Grand Council awarded the right of Absorption to Clan Star Adder. Has to be a reason for giving this the right to the Star Adders and not to the Blood Spirits, has not be?

In the Wars of Reaving, the Star Adders were honor-bound to defeat the traitorous nuBurrocks alone. If the had not done this, have not being capable of do this, they would have been weak and unworthy. So Ben Rome did it right.

Before the Absorption War the Star Adders were not an enemy of the Blood Spirits, the Absorption and aftermath changed this.
Everything the Blood Spirits did, was done of revenge and hate. They did immediately start with raiding and Trials of Possessions against the Star Adder, so starting the feud. Without this Clan Star Adder could have concentrated on rebuilding its touman and being ready for the new invasion.

Giving some sort of surkairede to the Star Adders would have helped the Blood Spirits. Instead they followed the path into darkness and finally into oblivion.

[tassa_kay]

The Grand Council awarded the right of Absorption to Clan Star Adder. Has to be a reason for giving this the right to the Star Adders and not to the Blood Spirits, has not be?

It shouldn't have given to anyone. Absorptions are supposed to be bid on by all the Clans. Simply handing that off to the Star Adders was grossly improper.

In the Wars of Reaving, the Star Adders were honor-bound to defeat the traitorous nuBurrocks alone. If the had not done this, have not being capable of do this, they would have been weak and unworthy. So Ben Rome did it right.

That's not true. The Adders not only had the Cobras helping them retake the Tanite worlds from the Burrocks, they forced the Cobras to help them.

Everything the Blood Spirits did, was done of revenge and hate.

And everything the Adders did was done of revenge and hate.

They did immediately start with raiding and Trials of Possessions against the Star Adder, so starting the feud.

That's not true, either. The Spirits withdrew into complete isolation after the Absorption War, with their only known action against the Adders being their retaking of their Arcadia enclave, something pretty much every Clan was doing during the Wars of Possession. The Adders were the ones who turned it into an actual feud by invading York and flat-out declaring that the feud wouldn't be over until the Spirits had paid for every Adder life lost in the Absorption War.

Giving some sort of surkairede to the Star Adders would have helped the Blood Spirits.

The Adders getting away with their genocide of tens of millions on York without a single repercussion was surkairede enough.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

The Spirits lost half their Touman on the Burrock Absorption issue, and then lost more as they kept picking at their scab. They antagonized the Adders (and Burrocks) to no fruitful resolution. You oils have thought they would have learned maybe not to hit one of the Strongest Clans in Clan space with their numerically MUCH weaker forces.

It’s one thing to constantly raid your enemy: sure you’re annoying him but the bear is not likely to charge after you if it’s a couple small bee stings. But again poke the bear enough and they’ll just get tired and murder you.

At one point or another if they had made ‘peace’ of a sorts the Spirits might have survived in some form: they probably would have ended up after the WoR like the Lions or Coyotes.

[tassa_kay]

Not sure why people keep repeating "it's all the Spirits' fault for attacking a stronger enemy" as if it's adding something new to the conversation (it's not; this dead horse has been beaten to the marrow), or that it's even strictly true to begin with (because, again, the Adders pursued the feud just as much as the Spirits did).

[Stormlion1]

The Council gave the right to Absorb the Burrocks to the Adders for a single reason. To get the job done. Any other Clan? The Burrocks might have won. Only a few Clans had the ability to do so. And then there was the question of the absorbing Clan becoming too powerful as the Adders did become so. There was no interest in making the Wolves or Bears more powerful and the Spirits were considered to weak to have a chance to do so.

[Wolf72]

There was enough of a voting bloc to keep any IS clans from getting them and CSA had the clout to take the vote.  In the "what ifs" I think that would be a cool turning point to change.  Additional Drama once CCC lets out (or is forced to let out) the Tanite worlds.

[tassa_kay]

The Council gave the right to Absorb the Burrocks to the Adders for a single reason. To get the job done. Any other Clan? The Burrocks might have won. Only a few Clans had the ability to do so. And then there was the question of the absorbing Clan becoming too powerful as the Adders did become so. There was no interest in making the Wolves or Bears more powerful and the Spirits were considered to weak to have a chance to do so.

This is all headcanon, though.

First, Absorptions aren't assigned or voted on after the Absorption motion passes, they're bid on, with the lowest bidder winning. The Adders had nine of their ten Galaxies participating in this Trial, which doesn't strike me as a particularly low bid. There's absolutely no way that if this had been written properly, the Clans wouldn't have been falling over themselves to get the chance to Absorb another Clan and raising a stink about it being assigned in the first place, whether it's because they're conservative sticklers (thinking Clans like the Falcons, the Vipers, etc.), have an ax to grind against the Burrocks/Adders (to the Jaguar POV, the Adders interfered in their Absorption of the Mongooses, and the Coyotes certainly didn't like the Adders), or are just plain thirsty for isorla.

Second, the Spirits actually had a larger touman that the Adders at the time of the Absorption: twelve Galaxies to the Adders' ten. They stood just as much of a chance on paper against the Burrocks as the Adders did. Granted, the Spirits would be at a disadvantage technologically, but I'd argue that that might be evened out by the fact that they have a lot less territory to defend, and thus could focus more into their offense. They gave as good as they got in the Absorption War (they lost five Galaxies but took down almost seven).

Even the argument that the Clans were concerned about the Absorbing Clan gaining too much power doesn't hold much water in this instance. The Spirits certainly wouldn't have become more powerful than the other Clans in this case, mostly because there likely would a lot less (if any) of the "let's just switch sides" we saw with the Adders: the Spirits and Burrocks hated each other, and odds are the Spirits would've, at best, broken even because that Trial would've been nasty.

[truetanker]

I love Zeta Galaxy, Snow Raven, er Blood Spirit. 

TT

[Stormlion1]

This is all headcanon, though.

First, Absorptions aren't assigned or voted on after the Absorption motion passes, they're bid on, with the lowest bidder winning. The Adders had nine of their ten Galaxies participating in this Trial, which doesn't strike me as a particularly low bid. There's absolutely no way that if this had been written properly, the Clans wouldn't have been falling over themselves to get the chance to Absorb another Clan and raising a stink about it being assigned in the first place, whether it's because they're conservative sticklers (thinking Clans like the Falcons, the Vipers, etc.), have an ax to grind against the Burrocks/Adders (to the Jaguar POV, the Adders interfered in their Absorption of the Mongooses, and the Coyotes certainly didn't like the Adders), or are just plain thirsty for isorla.

Second, the Spirits actually had a larger touman that the Adders at the time of the Absorption: twelve Galaxies to the Adders' ten. They stood just as much of a chance on paper against the Burrocks as the Adders did. Granted, the Spirits would be at a disadvantage technologically, but I'd argue that that might be evened out by the fact that they have a lot less territory to defend, and thus could focus more into their offense. They gave as good as they got in the Absorption War (they lost five Galaxies but took down almost seven).

Even the argument that the Clans were concerned about the Absorbing Clan gaining too much power doesn't hold much water in this instance. The Spirits certainly wouldn't have become more powerful than the other Clans in this case, mostly because there likely would a lot less (if any) of the "let's just switch sides" we saw with the Adders: the Spirits and Burrocks hated each other, and odds are the Spirits would've, at best, broken even because that Trial would've been nasty.

I put it down to the Blood Spirits being so secretive the other Clans didn't know how large they had grown. Seriously, look up in a Clan Dictionary the word 'secretive' and you get a picture of the Blood Spirit symbol.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Moving elsewhere would have been a good idea. Heaven knows they were used to being self supporting and there are plenty of worlds fhey could have moved to and taken over in the Periphery or even into the Inner Sphere. They had Star League era star charts. They could have moved to worlds that have fallen off the maps!

The biggest issue for the Homeworld Clans was finding *more* suitable worlds. There's a good reason the Clans had only a few worlds colonized to begin with.

[Stormlion1]

The biggest issue for the Homeworld Clans was finding *more* suitable worlds. There's a good reason the Clans had only a few worlds colonized to begin with.

Point I'm making is there where known worlds to go to. Heck, the Outworlds Alliance has half there Star League territory fallen off the map by the 3050's. Not nuked, just no longer part of the Outworlds Alliance. And the SLDF had maps of those territorys. They didn't need to search our new worlds.

[alex blood spirit]

have a question when Khan KARIANNA Schmit was injuried and remove as Khan why was she reinstated instead of some one more leveled head and some foesight

[tassa_kay]

have a question when Khan KARIANNA Schmit was injuried and remove as Khan why was she reinstated instead of some one more leveled head and some foesight

Per WoR, page 193, she was re-elected after Troy Boques' death because "the Spirits were looking for any way to regain their former glory."