Adaptions of RL military technology to Battletech

[Red Pins]

This is new technology for my AU project that I've adapted - RL stuff from magazines, modern military tech, and extensions of existing battletech stuff.  Which do you like, what's over the top, and what homebrew tech would you add?

[Sigma]

Well technically some stuff already exists. Like you can mount a lift-hoist on a regular battlemech to get the hardpoint effect. Dedicated Airmechs have been proposed many times so I can see them having a go. The current trend of partial wings and IJJ's makes them plausible as battlefield units. The SDS systems of many capital planets already have similar stuff to your JS listen-kill fly-by-wire missiles. Making TAG compatible with ELRM's seem like a logical tech jump in the DA. Small Craft can already be built to serve as heavy interceptors or bombers without using aerotech engines. Mobile turrets also probably already exist but I can't remember where they are detailed.

Most of the IS hates AI and cybernetics so too much drone stuff probably isn't going to happen outside WoB/C* or old SL stuff. A mobile drone command center could be detailed in Jihad: Final Reckoning if I had to guess seeing as we've heard rumors of drone battlemechs in that book.

[MadCapellan]

For the record, Laser-Guided Bombs are already guided by TAG and can be found in Total Warfare.

[FedComGirl]

# 6-legged 150 tonners, and 8-legged 200 tonners - basically, two mechs welded together.

Well, we're supposed to get 100+ ton mechs with 3 legs at some point. Having the ability to have more legs would be nice.

# Permanent AirMechs - a LAM stuck in AirMech mode, without conversion gear but suffer the penalties all the time.  Heavy PAMs between 60-75 tons are possible and follow the same rules, but have only x2 jump.

That would be very cool.

# FighterShips - Small craft between 110-200 tons, they use twin fusion engines.  They're used for air superiority, tanker, anti-WS (carries a single cap missile in an internal bay) , bombers, etc.

Well, small craft have that ability now. Except the twin engine thing which could just be fluffed.

# Extra-Light Mechs - the IS-tech equivilant of Protomechs; between 11-19 tons with 'open' cockpit, engine, gyro.  They follow most of the rules for Protos, but although they have fewer locations, they don't have the 'Near Miss' opt

We have extra light mechs now but they're not open cockpits. It'd be nice if they had IS tech protomechs though. Maybe with more conventional controls based on some of the battle armors, like the Sloth.

# Portable Turrets - literally, a turret mounted on a set of hydraulic legs to stabilize and balance it.  5-10 ton turrets can be remote operated, but 15-20 ton ones might be manned or drones.

Um... aren't those called mechs?

# 'Follow-me's - wheeled/tracked vehicles that use drone tech to maintain a set distance between an emitter and the drone.  I imagine it would carry a generater for recharging battlearmor, drive ammo carriers, or carry LRM artillery for support.

I don't know why you can't do that now.

# Hardpoints - since mechs can carry 10% of their weight in their hands, a HP carries weapon/ammo (MG and ammo, HS, coolant pods - but nothing over 1 ton.

Do you mean hand held weapons? The older fluffed ones should be able to use the rules for dropping physical weapons as they're both hand held.   Or do you mean things like mounting a single shot missile launcher on a shoulder or something, like the art for the Griffin and Goliath?

# Stilts - a purely mechanical way to increase ground speed, mostly on quads or the >100 tonners.  They may be extended 'bones' between leg actuators or attached to the leg like normal stilts.

That would be interesting but I'm not sure how practical it'd be.

# Armor Rescue Pods - basically, an armored component from TO that protects vehicle crews.  (I wanted a way to explain elite vehicle crews.)

There is a Combat Vehicle Escape Pod. But maybe Armored Components could be applied to Vehicles as well?

# ER-TAG - a 7/14/21 weapon to povide a longer-ranged spotter.  I figured why not, they can make ER lasers.

That makes sense.

# Cassette Missile System - a trailer mounted system to replace missile carriers.  Each Cassette holds a third of a ton of missiles (32/34/34 SRMs), and fires in 2/5/ALL increments.

Um... you can mount missile systems on trailers now.

# Point-C3 System - 2 tons, links a single pair of vehicles/AS fighters.

Could be, or they could just give us official rules on the Partisan AA Tank's C3 capabilities.

# Jump Point Missile/Mine system - a set of cap missiles with rad/meteor shield, fires at incoming JS guided by a base station or on bearings from the radiation wave until it 'sees' a target.

Can't they do that now?

# White Phosphorus LB-X ammo - if they're submunitions, why can't they be incendiary spikes of death?

Probably because they'd only be useful against infantry plants and buildings. I know Tracer Rounds do 1 point less damage.

# TAG-guided ELRMs - the same rules for TAG-LRMs.

Makes sense.

# Anti-ECM Missiles - anti-radiation missiles, they home on the radar signals or ECM emitters rather than use the launcher's targeting information.

There are Anti-Radiation Missiles that are more effective against units using ECM

# HAG-style AP Gauss - a version of the Clan AP Gauss that gets the HAG treatment.  The capacitors blow up when it gets hit, like a full size Guass rifle.

I suppose lower classes of HAG Guass Rifles is possible.

# Thunderbolt-TOW - a wire-guided thunderbolt missile - something like a teleoperated cap missile.

I suppose it's possible but it'd loose damage because it'd have to store the wire. I'd think it'd also have big penalties for moving while firing.

# TAG-guided bombs - perfect for dive bombing.

There are laser guided bombs. There are Air Launched Arrow IVs that are dropped as bombs.

[Khymerion]

Could we add an SRM version of the thunderbolt to the list?

[Youngblood]

Could we add an SRM version of the thunderbolt to the list?

Wouldn't that just be an AC/20?

[Ghostbear_Gurdel]

...that can be shot down by AMS, works for me  }:)

[Khymerion]

I know it is an AC-20 but something smaller...  SRMs have never really felt right to me over the years.  A single short ranged heavy missile that could be smaller than an AC but interceptable by AMS would be nice.  I have liked the thunderbolt in it's various incarnations now for years... it's always been a bit odd but a nice change from the random clusters of the LRM (because no one likes firing 20 missiles down range and only getting like 6 to stick).

Even up the weight to the size of a streak launcher (I know streak does also all hit but it still scatters)...

So yeah, I guess I am asking for a smaller, shorter ranged AC that has some oomph to it but with major flaws (namely reduced ammo and interceptable).  I would pay 4.5 tons for that ability honestly... even if I only get half the shots of a normal ton of ammo.

Also... could I request a torpedo thunderbolt please?  No more macross swarms for underwater please.  If I fire a spread of torpedoes, I want to know that it is 4 really GOOD torpedoes...  not 80 tiny things in a randomly strewn about mess (Assuming that the example given is 4 Thunderbolt-20s verse 4 LRT-20s).

Addendum...  also request a fighter launched missile capable of breaching the barrier between atmosphere and low orbit for purposes of giving a way to pop spy satellites and people hanging out in low orbit to conventional, non-ASF equipped forces without resorting to sub-capital weapons.  Kinda like the F-15 and the cancelled ASM-135 program...  or a ground based incarnation like the RIM-161 SM-3... not be as powerful as a Sub-Cap missile or a full blown Cap missile...  a slightly less damaging arrow IV missile would work (maybe just 15 pts instead of it's normal damage). This way it would still give conventional ground forces a way to fire back, so to speak, against marauding dropships, light warships, or fighter carriers that are hanging in low orbit and being annoying.

[Red Pins]

Well technically some stuff already exists. Like you can mount a lift-hoist on a regular battlemech to get the hardpoint effect.

...The lift hoist is for service mechs (Forestry, Demolition Mechs) while HPs are modular - one day, a pair of coolant pods, the next a quad machinegun mount, a MG array, and a half ton of ammo.  Its a neat way to give your flashbulb mech extra heatsinks at no weight cost when designing one, but they can be shot off pretty easily.

Small Craft can already be built to serve as heavy interceptors or bombers without using aerotech engines. Mobile turrets also probably already exist but I can't remember where they are detailed.

...The FS engine formula is mass x safe thrust=x, divided by 2.  I can't remember is they can be XL, but it cuts the mass required by a significant amount, leaving a 200 ton areodyne small craft with a HUGE amount of mass saved - the problem is, it has the same space as a small craft.  A lot of the remaining mass is taken by things like cargo, fuel, and armor with only the largest, heaviest weapons to maximize the use of the remaining slots.  Both engines take a single wing slot - and they can be shot off.  I think that's fair.

Most of the IS hates AI and cybernetics so too much drone stuff probably isn't going to happen outside WoB/C* or old SL stuff. A mobile drone command center could be detailed in Jihad: Final Reckoning if I had to guess seeing as we've heard rumors of drone battlemechs in that book.

...Ironically, both the tow vehicle for the missile trailer (Grapeshot APC) and an 18-ton Extra-Light Mech with a single drone control slot can control them.  Done Battlemechs are a little to unrealistic for me - something that expensive or complex really needs a MW to get the full advantage from it, I think.  But a 'follow-me'...  the leader (say, a suit of BA) is restricted to a path the drone can use to follow given its movement type, whether it carries a mech mortar, LRM system, or just a generator with food and water.

We have extra light mechs now but they're not open cockpits. It'd be nice if they had IS tech protomechs though. Maybe with more conventional controls based on some of the battle armors, like the Sloth.

...The 12 ton Striker is the most common, as a for instance - if I remember right, they're 6/9, with about 69 points of Proto/Elemental-style armor (I don't remember how many locations - 4 or 5, I think), and a ML/SML in each arm with a pair of RL-10s in each torso.  Think MadCat, with a different style of cockpit, shrunk down to about 1/3 the size of a mech, or about twice as tall as a Proto.  Eggshells with sledgehammers, but fun to play.

Do you mean hand held weapons? The older fluffed ones should be able to use the rules for dropping physical weapons as they're both hand held.   Or do you mean things like mounting a single shot missile launcher on a shoulder or something, like the art for the Griffin and Goliath?

Remember the absurd one-shot SRMs on a War Dog?  I envision them as two parts; on the arm a hook, and the equipment is in a armored shell secured to the arms.  For example, it might mount an one ton items; heatsinks or coolant pods are a favorite, but a 100 ton mech might have 3 tons of space after paying for a ton of armor (on the shell) and the hardpoint equipment.  You might put a couple Clan SRM-2s and a ton of ammo or 4 MG, a half ton of ammo, and IS Case as an example.

There is a Combat Vehicle Escape Pod. But maybe Armored Components could be applied to Vehicles as well?

Dang it!  Where?

Um... you can mount missile systems on trailers now.

...Think 34 SRMs/40 LRMs/80 MRMs/ (whatever) ELRMs - of any type that doesn't require support from the launcher (like artemis or Streak, but Narc are ok because they get their benefit from the Narc beacon, not the launcher) behind waxed paper circles on a hydraulic post...  Now imagine firing only 2, or 4, or 12, or all 34.  >BOOM!<  ...But it takes a single turn to reload after the cassette is empty.

I suppose it's possible but it'd loose damage because it'd have to store the wire. I'd think it'd also have big penalties for moving while firing.

...TOW launchers on vehicles had to stop to fire, so I guess the same for this, too.  Fire only after a turn stationary.  And not so much - after all, its only - what? 21 hexes x 30 meters - 630 meters, of fine wire?  And T-Bolts don't even have the same range, if I remember.  Maybe -1 or -2 damage?  For a teleoperated missile, unaffected by ECM, I think its pretty good.

I know it is an AC-20 but something smaller...  SRMs have never really felt right to me over the years.  A single short ranged heavy missile that could be smaller than an AC but interceptable by AMS would be nice.  I have liked the thunderbolt in it's various incarnations now for years... it's always been a bit odd but a nice change from the random clusters of the LRM (because no one likes firing 20 missiles down range and only getting like 6 to stick).

...Something like a dumb-fire?  I'll have to think about how to do that - any suggests on mass, crits, and ammo?

Also... could I request a torpedo thunderbolt please?  No more macross swarms for underwater please.  If I fire a spread of torpedoes, I want to know that it is 4 really GOOD torpedoes...  not 80 tiny things in a randomly strewn about mess (Assuming that the example given is 4 Thunderbolt-20s verse 4 LRT-20s).

...Seems reasonable - a T-Bolt/T?  Wire guided, maybe.

Addendum...  also request a fighter launched missile capable of breaching the barrier between atmosphere and low orbit for purposes of giving a way to pop spy satellites and people hanging out in low orbit to conventional, non-ASF equipped forces without resorting to sub-capital weapons.  Kinda like the F-15 and the cancelled ASM-135 program...  or a ground based incarnation like the RIM-161 SM-3... not be as powerful as a Sub-Cap missile or a full blown Cap missile...  a slightly less damaging arrow IV missile would work (maybe just 15 pts instead of it's normal damage). This way it would still give conventional ground forces a way to fire back, so to speak, against marauding dropships, light warships, or fighter carriers that are hanging in low orbit and being annoying.

...I could use sub-cap missiles underslung by conventional fighters - what's the smallest, and how much does a single missile weigh?  A FighterShip could carry a dozen or so, but then, it could enter orbit and wipe them out by itself.

Thanks for voting!

[Khymerion]

...Something like a dumb-fire?  I'll have to think about how to do that - any suggests on mass, crits, and ammo?

Mass and crit, equal to the Inner Sphere Streak launchers...  ammo, 1/2 rounded up.  It is a big missile after all and the increased bulk is difficult to maintain.  Dumb launch... if it fires...  ammo expended.  Just like a regular SRM in it's traditional applications.

...Seems reasonable - a T-Bolt/T?  Wire guided, maybe.

Doesn't have to be wire guided... even if all it functions like is a simple Thunderbolt as a torpedo... I would be okay.  It may not be a Mk 48 ADCAP... I'll settle for a just a WWII Mk 14 torpedo.  Because I want to say fire tubes 1 and 4... not...  fire Tube array 1 and 4 and then go deaf from the sound of mass transits.

...I could use sub-cap missiles underslung by conventional fighters - what's the smallest, and how much does a single missile weigh?  A FighterShip could carry a dozen or so, but then, it could enter orbit and wipe them out by itself.

Sub-Cap almost feels too big...  Honestly, it would be okay to have it be a modified Anti-Ship or Anti-Air Arrow missile...  6 hardpoints for the airborne version...  needs to be launched from fighter at a high altitude and only against targets in near space.  Damage can be even half an Arrow IV warhead due to the need to have an extra powerful booster stage... 10 pts of damage.  A ground launched version might still be from an Arrow IV launcher but due to the massive size of the booster, only 3 missiles are available per ton instead of the traditional 5.   The ground and air launched versions would be incompatible. 

This way the ASMs and AAA external ordinances still retain have their roles, just this is a specialized round that could have easily be attempted during the dark days of the Jihad...  something that would not be general issue but definitely on important worlds or given to offensive units in an attempt to keep their airspace clear.

[Charlie Tango]

Permanent AirMechs:  They're called WiGEs.

Hardpoints:  there are already rules for hand-carried weapons.

Point-C3:  We already have this.  It's called C3i

White Phosphorus LB-10X.  Considering Infernos make W-P look like a candle flame...

Thunderbolt-TOW:  Sure,  if you're willing to accept that the firing vehicle would have to be immobile (i.e. -4) for that firing turn. 

[Tslammer]

Sorry I cannot vote for any of these. With the explosion of new weapons and house rules into the core books I see no need for any of these.

[Red Pins]

This is new technology for my AU project that I've adapted - RL stuff from magazines, modern military tech, and extensions of existing battletech stuff.  Which do you like, what's over the top, and what homebrew tech would you add?

...There - I think that clears things up.   [legal]  :)

Permanent AirMechs:  They're called WiGEs.

...You say tomay-to, I say tomot-o...  I wanted something different from canon, and I came up with these nearly...  Jesus - 23 years ago - to keep a unit with destroyed conversion gear in the field.  I just wasn't going to give up on the idea when I got the chance to put in with The New Clans: Volume 1.

Hardpoints:  there are already rules for hand-carried weapons.

...These babies hang off the arm, not the hand - which is why most of them are not combat-oriented - because my AU guys are poor enough that two less actuators makes a tidy profit down the road in spent resources.

Point-C3:  We already have this.  It's called C3i

...Invented by ComStar, in 30-whatever.  The NC weren't so blind to the advantages, besides being desperate to find any equalizer for vehicle vs. Mech fights, and created it sometime in the 2900's.  Besides, you can't expand it.  It wasn't until a major inter-Clan conflict they adapted it for up to 10 units, for use on mechs/vehicles/ASFs/drones

White Phosphorus LB-10X.  Considering Infernos make W-P look like a candle flame...

...The idea was originally to fluff the same effect as RL depleted uranium rounds, but I haven't researched it enough yet to tell if it would work.  The other was to extend the range of an Inferno-type of anti-vehicle ammunition.  And IIRC, Infernos 'bobble' in flight due to the liquified payload in the missile, making them less accurate - I haven't checked TW, though.  Finally, I wanted new and different.  Not something that Kerensky went to war with.

Thunderbolt-TOW:  Sure,  if you're willing to accept that the firing vehicle would have to be immobile (i.e. -4) for that firing turn. 

...I can live with that.  Just park behind a rise, and let the P-C3 deal with it.  Besides - who realistically believes every weapon needs to be a superweapon?  You play lousy Mechs sometimes because they're interesting, not because you know they're going to win, right?

Look at the Cassette system - massive 1 turn firepower, but they have to have a platoon of unarmored infantry help to reload from ammo left without overhead cover, and a 1-turn reload time.  They really are artillery bait.  Granted they make cities deathtraps - on one of the trial runs, one Grapeshot APC tow vehicle and its four trailers gutted a Lance of Medium Mechs - but they belong on the far side of terrain features supporting the infantry and vehicles with indirect fire.  I wouldn't want to serve in one.

[FedComGirl]

...The lift hoist is for service mechs (Forestry, Demolition Mechs) while HPs are modular - one day, a pair of coolant pods, the next a quad machinegun mount, a MG array, and a half ton of ammo.  Its a neat way to give your flashbulb mech extra heatsinks at no weight cost when designing one, but they can be shot off pretty easily.

There are some Battlemechs who use lift hoists to carry hand held rifles, so they have a choice of weapon.

...Ironically, both the tow vehicle for the missile trailer (Grapeshot APC) and an 18-ton Extra-Light Mech with a single drone control slot can control them.  Done Battlemechs are a little to unrealistic for me - something that expensive or complex really needs a MW to get the full advantage from it, I think.  But a 'follow-me'...  the leader (say, a suit of BA) is restricted to a path the drone can use to follow given its movement type, whether it carries a mech mortar, LRM system, or just a generator with food and water.

Drone Battlemechs are are limited to Quads but remote controlled can be either type.

...The 12 ton Striker is the most common, as a for instance - if I remember right, they're 6/9, with about 69 points of Proto/Elemental-style armor (I don't remember how many locations - 4 or 5, I think), and a ML/SML in each arm with a pair of RL-10s in each torso.  Think MadCat, with a different style of cockpit, shrunk down to about 1/3 the size of a mech, or about twice as tall as a Proto.  Eggshells with sledgehammers, but fun to play.

Lost me on that one. Is that an actual design?

Remember the absurd one-shot SRMs on a War Dog?  I envision them as two parts; on the arm a hook, and the equipment is in a armored shell secured to the arms.  For example, it might mount an one ton items; heatsinks or coolant pods are a favorite, but a 100 ton mech might have 3 tons of space after paying for a ton of armor (on the shell) and the hardpoint equipment.  You might put a couple Clan SRM-2s and a ton of ammo or 4 MG, a half ton of ammo, and IS Case as an example.

I don't see the connection with the War Dog but I don't know why you couldn't house rule fighters hard point abilities for mechs. They can mount backpack style jump packs. I would keep any launchers to one shot though.

Quote from: FedComGirl on 24 May 2011, 23:32:39

    There is a Combat Vehicle Escape Pod. But maybe Armored Components could be applied to Vehicles as well?

Dang it!  Where?

Tactical Operations.

...Think 34 SRMs/40 LRMs/80 MRMs/ (whatever) ELRMs - of any type that doesn't require support from the launcher (like artemis or Streak, but Narc are ok because they get their benefit from the Narc beacon, not the launcher) behind waxed paper circles on a hydraulic post...  Now imagine firing only 2, or 4, or 12, or all 34.  >BOOM!<  ...But it takes a single turn to reload after the cassette is empty.

Um... that sounds like you'd just be mounting 6 LRM 20 Launchers( or whatever) and a single ton of ammo.

...TOW launchers on vehicles had to stop to fire, so I guess the same for this, too.  Fire only after a turn stationary.  And not so much - after all, its only - what? 21 hexes x 30 meters - 630 meters, of fine wire?  And T-Bolts don't even have the same range, if I remember.  Maybe -1 or -2 damage?  For a teleoperated missile, unaffected by ECM, I think its pretty good.

I think that works out to 21 hexes. Thunderbolts have a range of 18. I suppose its technologically possible but why stand still and become a target while losing damage points to wire when you could just make Streak Thunderbolts, or Artimis equipped, or Laser Guided, or Narc Equipped, etc.

Quote from: Khymerion on Today at 06:24:25

    I know it is an AC-20 but something smaller...  SRMs have never really felt right to me over the years.  A single short ranged heavy missile that could be smaller than an AC but interceptable by AMS would be nice.  I have liked the thunderbolt in it's various incarnations now for years... it's always been a bit odd but a nice change from the random clusters of the LRM (because no one likes firing 20 missiles down range and only getting like 6 to stick).

Short range thunderbolt?

...Something like a dumb-fire?  I'll have to think about how to do that - any suggests on mass, crits, and ammo?

Could do that too.

    Also... could I request a torpedo thunderbolt please?  No more macross swarms for underwater please.  If I fire a spread of torpedoes, I want to know that it is 4 really GOOD torpedoes...  not 80 tiny things in a randomly strewn about mess (Assuming that the example given is 4 Thunderbolt-20s verse 4 LRT-20s).

A Thunderbolt torpedo sounds reasonable. Or maybe house rule an Arrow IV launcher to fire Torpedo Bombs? Or carry them in a "bomb bay"?

Quote from: Khymerion on Today at 06:24:25

    Addendum...  also request a fighter launched missile capable of breaching the barrier between atmosphere and low orbit for purposes of giving a way to pop spy satellites and people hanging out in low orbit to conventional, non-ASF equipped forces without resorting to sub-capital weapons.  Kinda like the F-15 and the cancelled ASM-135 program...  or a ground based incarnation like the RIM-161 SM-3... not be as powerful as a Sub-Cap missile or a full blown Cap missile...  a slightly less damaging arrow IV missile would work (maybe just 15 pts instead of it's normal damage). This way it would still give conventional ground forces a way to fire back, so to speak, against marauding dropships, light warships, or fighter carriers that are hanging in low orbit and being annoying.

You could house rule that some of the air launched Arrows could do that.

...I could use sub-cap missiles underslung by conventional fighters - what's the smallest, and how much does a single missile weigh?  A FighterShip could carry a dozen or so, but then, it could enter orbit and wipe them out by itself.

The smallest sub capitol missile is the Piranha which weighs 10 tons.

Permanent AirMechs:  They're called WiGEs.

WiGEs can't truly fly nor can they walk through terrain restrictions.

Look at the Cassette system - massive 1 turn firepower, but they have to have a platoon of unarmored infantry help to reload from ammo left without overhead cover, and a 1-turn reload time.  They really are artillery bait.  Granted they make cities deathtraps - on one of the trial runs, one Grapeshot APC tow vehicle and its four trailers gutted a Lance of Medium Mechs - but they belong on the far side of terrain features supporting the infantry and vehicles with indirect fire.  I wouldn't want to serve in one.

Still lost on the Cassette system. Why don't the launchers just share 1 ton of ammo? It's still going to take 3 turns minimum to rearm per ton of ammo while under fire and that's risky.

[Red Pins]

There are some Battlemechs who use lift hoists to carry hand held rifles, so they have a choice of weapon.

...which is just dumb, if you ask me, but I gotta admit, its creative.

Drone Battlemechs are are limited to Quads but remote controlled can be either type.

...No, no.  Remote Mechs don't do it for me - I just want something to pull ammo and supplies, maybe a 20-ton wheeled vehicle with trailers.

Lost me on that one. Is that an actual design?

...Yeah.  I wanted IS Protos, but I couldn't see EI ever getting the nod from IS leaders.  So I fluffed an alternate origin; "Clan Surf Dragon" wanted an improvement of the industrial exo-skeleton to get a infantry weapon, but they couldn't do it.  So they crammed a cockpit, gyro, etc. into the smalled frame they could make - 11-19 tons.  The Striker is just the most common, but there are 8 others.  I particularly like the 16 ton PAM - its not a fighter, its a scout, only x2 jump with every mike and camera in battletech I could cram in, plus a 'mission space' for cargo.

I don't see the connection with the War Dog but I don't know why you couldn't house rule fighters hard point abilities for mechs. They can mount backpack style jump packs. I would keep any launchers to one shot though.

...I wanted modularity for non-Omnis, among other things - its not much, but it provides more space and mass.  And a couple of ELMs do mount jump packs for combat drops.

Tactical Operations.

...Drat.  Well, I'll just adapt the official rules.

Um... that sounds like you'd just be mounting 6 LRM 20 Launchers( or whatever) and a single ton of ammo.

...:)  The cassette system, at its base, is nothing more than a 1/3rd of a ton of missile ammo on a steel rack, pointed at a target.  A replacement for missile artillery by the groups of my AU, its vulnerable to artillery, airstrikes, ambush by infantry, lots of things.  But they're cheap, and when you get in front of it at the wrong time, you're dead.

I think that works out to 21 hexes. Thunderbolts have a range of 18. I suppose its technologically possible but why stand still and become a target while losing damage points to wire when you could just make Streak Thunderbolts, or Artimis equipped, or Laser Guided, or Narc Equipped, etc.

...Its an adaption of a RL system, the TOW missile.  They had to stop to launch, so it seems fair this one has to, too. 

Still lost on the Cassette system. Why don't the launchers just share 1 ton of ammo? It's still going to take 3 turns minimum to rearm per ton of ammo while under fire and that's risky.

...Does this help?  Keep in mind, it needs editing still.

Cassette Missile System
   After the conclusion of the Legacy Civil War, Clan Piranha, the most numberous of the New Clans, began to turn their attention towards improving the equipment issued to their Infantry garrisons.  After identifying the issues facing the Touman, research began into a cheaper, more flexible method of fire support.
   The eventual design of the Piranha’s missile trailers was optimized from the beginning to preserve flexibility; selecting the unpowered trailer as its base, Technicians chose the 5-ton chassis as the smallest possible base to mount a viable weapon system.  With the prevailance of small armored vehicles to move its Infantry garrisons, most APCs would be able to tow several of the new weapon, dramatically increasing the odds of holding their positions.
   The actual design of the missile trailer, however, is extremely simple.  Little more than a hydraulic post controlled by its tow vehicle, the design features minimal armor protection.  Storing its missile ammunition in ‘cassettes’, the trailer only carries three to minimize damage from ammo explosions.  Designed to offer massive salvos of Short- and Long-Ranged Missiles, the trailer has supplanted the SRM and LRM carriers still found in the Inner Sphere.  Due to its limited utility, there are no plans to extend the concept to other missile systems such as the Arrow artillery missiles.

Construction Rules
   The cassette system is very much a one-trick pony; because of the lack of armor and chances of an ammo explosion, they are generally relegated to trailers to prevent damage to more expensive equipment.
   The simple system requires a ton of ammunition, and a single ton of equipment.  Armor and ammunition is separate from the cassette system, saving weight and space to fit on the small trailer.

Game Rules
At its most basic, the system consists of racks of pre-loaded launch tubes covered by a paper seal, providing a multiple-launch capability by offering the operator a choice of munitions and numbers in standard 2- and 5-missile groupings or a single launch of the complete cassette.  The interaction of the CMS and its tow vehicle comprise the bulk of these rules.
·   Cassettes are loaded with 1/3 of a ton of any missile type; they may contain any style of missile which does not require supporting electronics, such as Streak or Artemis.  Trailers may carry a mix of cassettes, but each cassette may contain only a single type of missile.
·   Each missile type retains its standard rules; for example, Inner Sphere LRMs require a minimum range of 6 hexes, while Clan LRMs do not.
·   To determine the number of missiles per cassette, determine the total number of missiles per ton of ammunition and divide by three.  One cassette will contain the extra missiles that will not fit into the other cassettes.
Ex.  A single ton of SRM-2 ammunition consists of 50 missiles; (2 missiles x 50 shots) 100 missiles / 3 gives you two cassettes of 32, and a single cassette of 34.
·   In order to deploy the CMS, it must be deployed with power and control cables connecting it to the tow vehicle.  A Infantry squad is also required to reload and maintain the system.  A trailer in motion or without a crew is considered inoperative.  When in motion, it uses standard rules and the appropriate hit location table.
·   When fighting from Improved Positions (pgs. 198-199 of TO), the trailer is placed side out, allowing the clamshell armor to provide a second layer of protection.
·   To fire missiles from a CMS, declare the number of missiles fired, in appropriate increments.  Once a cassette is emptied, it requires a full turn spent removing the frame and mounting its replacement.  When replaced, the cassette is aligned with the side of the trailer, facing outward.
Ex. A cassette containing SRM ammo may fire any number of missiles in increments of two, up to the full number of missiles in the cassette (32 or 34, depending on the cassette.  Normally the largest cassette will be used first, given the fragile nature of the trailer.
·   Each trailer is connected by power and data cables to a control vehicle; this is commonly, but not always, the tow vehicle.  Cables are normally buried by crews and are immune to damage, but depending on the scenario may be vulnerable.  If the cables are left without protection, 20 points of damage from artillery, large autocannon, or missile fire forces a cable check on the table below.  With buried cables, projectile fire may damage the cables, but require 40 points of damage from artillery, large autocannon, or missile fire.

Cable Check Table
   1  Cable Check; roll 2d6.  Data cable is severed on a 2.
   2  No effect
   3  No effect
   4  No effect
   5  No effect
   6  Cable Check; roll 2d6.  Power cable is severed on a 12.

[A. Lurker]

Hmmm...not particularly sold on that cassette system, here. We already have a cheap, lightweight, and ultimately expendable missile delivery system for what seems to be its intended role, after all.

It's called a rocket launcher. ;)

(Sure, those can't fire any type of special ammo. But then that's what proper LRM/SRM/MML racks are for.)

[Knightmare]

It's called a rocket launcher. ;)

(Sure, those can't fire any type of special ammo. But then that's what proper LRM/SRM/MML racks are for.)

Or the MRM...which is basically a multi-shot RL.

[Red Pins]

Exactly.  But, the system was invented around 2850, not 3050.  The New Clans had enough missiles, just not enough resources to build all the weapons and infrastructure they wanted.  So, the CMS - useless on anything BUT a trailer, but at 5 tons, even a 60 ton MBT can haul a shitload of them.  Voila!  LRM artillery!

...You haven't had fun until you try them with ELMs and E's, with some portable turrets and vehicles against mechs.  Its like playing whack-a-mole!  The mechs might, accent might, eventually win, but its going to be touch and go.  Even a 200 ton Heavy Assault Component treads lightly around an infantry unit with these, and it shows why they never go without supporting infantry and vehicles to protect them.

[Solarmech]

...Yeah.  I wanted IS Protos, but I couldn't see EI ever getting the nod from IS leaders.  So I fluffed an alternate origin; "Clan Surf Dragon" wanted an improvement of the industrial exo-skeleton to get a infantry weapon, but they couldn't do it.  So they crammed a cockpit, gyro, etc. into the smalled frame they could make - 11-19 tons.  The Striker is just the most common, but there are 8 others.  I particularly like the 16 ton PAM - its not a fighter, its a scout, only x2 jump with every mike and camera in battletech I could cram in, plus a 'mission space' for cargo.

I made rules for a IS unit called the MicroMech (which are 11 to 19 tons) many many years ago. Wonder where I put them? sm

[FedComGirl]

...No, no.  Remote Mechs don't do it for me - I just want something to pull ammo and supplies, maybe a 20-ton wheeled vehicle with trailers.

Those can be built with the rules we have as a piloted truck and trailer, a remote truck and trailer, or as a drone truck and trailer.

...Yeah.  I wanted IS Protos, but I couldn't see EI ever getting the nod from IS leaders.  So I fluffed an alternate origin; "Clan Surf Dragon" wanted an improvement of the industrial exo-skeleton to get a infantry weapon, but they couldn't do it.  So they crammed a cockpit, gyro, etc. into the smalled frame they could make - 11-19 tons.  The Striker is just the most common, but there are 8 others.  I particularly like the 16 ton PAM - its not a fighter, its a scout, only x2 jump with every mike and camera in battletech I could cram in, plus a 'mission space' for cargo.

There are XL Mechs though. Protos are 2-9 tons. How did you put battle armor equipment into the mech?

...I wanted modularity for non-Omnis, among other things - its not much, but it provides more space and mass.  And a couple of ELMs do mount jump packs for combat drops.

Like I said I don't know why you couldn't house rule hard points onto mechs. If you look at some of the unseen their missile launchers are pretty much on hard points. Especially when you look at the original source material.

...Drat.  Well, I'll just adapt the official rules.

??? okay

...:)  The cassette system, at its base, is nothing more than a 1/3rd of a ton of missile ammo on a steel rack, pointed at a target.  A replacement for missile artillery by the groups of my AU, its vulnerable to artillery, airstrikes, ambush by infantry, lots of things.  But they're cheap, and when you get in front of it at the wrong time, you're dead.

It sounds like a rocket launcher.

...Its an adaption of a RL system, the TOW missile.  They had to stop to launch, so it seems fair this one has to, too.

Wouldn't that make the Thunderbolt's range 15 hexes then? Depending on how many hexes are lost to the cable. That or the range being the same and the damage decreased.

Cassette Missile System

Um... :-\

At first thought it sounds like you're mounting Rocket Launchers that can use alternative munitions and are destroyed by ammo explosions. After some thought it sounds like you're mounting and firing Battle Armor Missile Launchers on the trailer. Personally I don't have a problem with house ruling either. I don't know why a 2 ton robot can mount equipment when a 2 ton truck can't.

The reloading doesn't sound  possible though. You're not just reloading but replacing the entire launching mechanism. That's got to take more than 10 seconds. It takes a minimum of 30 to reload 1 ton of ammo and doing so has great risk of errors. I'm also not sure why the clans would use cables unless they're worried about ECM interfering with communications. And the paper seal? It'd be destroyed by rain high wind an impact and the missiles own exhaust.

There's also a problem using alternate munitions. You said ·   

they may contain any style of missile which does not require supporting electronics, such as Streak or Artemis.

Except all except Dead Fire Missile require some form of electronics to aim and arm them. Granted the Tractor should have a fire control system of some kind. Still it really sounds like a rocket launcher, or Battle Armor missile Launchers.

Exactly.  But, the system was invented around 2850, not 3050.  The New Clans had enough missiles, just not enough resources to build all the weapons and infrastructure they wanted.  So, the CMS - useless on anything BUT a trailer, but at 5 tons, even a 60 ton MBT can haul a shitload of them.  Voila!  LRM artillery!

...You haven't had fun until you try them with ELMs and E's, with some portable turrets and vehicles against mechs.  Its like playing whack-a-mole!  The mechs might, accent might, eventually win, but its going to be touch and go.  Even a 200 ton Heavy Assault Component treads lightly around an infantry unit with these, and it shows why they never go without supporting infantry and vehicles to protect them.

I'm presuming you mean Extended and Enhanced LRM missiles? Both were developed by the Federated Commonwealth. I also don't think the Extended Range Missiles would work. Even an improved 1 shot ELRM 5 launcher still out masses the trailer by a half a ton.

Right now, it sounds like you just want to fire your missiles straight from the ammo bin. I suppose that could be arranged  but they'd be just as likely to blow up as launch and they're no no telling where they go without any aiming mechanism. Which means they could hit friendlies.

[Red Pins]

Those can be built with the rules we have as a piloted truck and trailer, a remote truck and trailer, or as a drone truck and trailer.

...What do you think of the drone truck and trailer idea?

There are XL Mechs though. Protos are 2-9 tons. How did you put battle armor equipment into the mech?

...First, there's a rule somewhere in TM that BA equipment could be mounted on mechs if there was no equivilant equipment.  Eventually, I made a house rule to allow it on ELMs, given that I had to calculate mass by kg anyway.  Its worked out pretty well.

At first thought it sounds like you're mounting Rocket Launchers that can use alternative munitions and are destroyed by ammo explosions. After some thought it sounds like you're mounting and firing Battle Armor Missile Launchers on the trailer. Personally I don't have a problem with house ruling either. I don't know why a 2 ton robot can mount equipment when a 2 ton truck can't.

The reloading doesn't sound  possible though. You're not just reloading but replacing the entire launching mechanism. That's got to take more than 10 seconds. It takes a minimum of 30 to reload 1 ton of ammo and doing so has great risk of errors. I'm also not sure why the clans would use cables unless they're worried about ECM interfering with communications. And the paper seal? It'd be destroyed by rain high wind an impact and the missiles own exhaust.

There's also a problem using alternate munitions. You said ·    Except all except Dead Fire Missile require some form of electronics to aim and arm them. Granted the Tractor should have a fire control system of some kind. Still it really sounds like a rocket launcher, or Battle Armor missile Launchers.

I'm presuming you mean Extended and Enhanced LRM missiles? Both were developed by the Federated Commonwealth. I also don't think the Extended Range Missiles would work. Even an improved 1 shot ELRM 5 launcher still out masses the trailer by a half a ton.

Right now, it sounds like you just want to fire your missiles straight from the ammo bin. I suppose that could be arranged  but they'd be just as likely to blow up as launch and they're no no telling where they go without any aiming mechanism. Which means they could hit friendlies.

... No, the CMS is loaded with standard SRMs or whatever.  The problem was, I designed the system maybe 10 years ago - the RL system didn't exist, yet.  As for reloading, I'm afraid you're right, after considering it for a while.  But I thought it was 30 seconds/turn?  As for the paper, its just remembering from my childhood this image of missiles being launched from a ship and shattering the white cover over the tube as it fired. ;D

The specialty missiles...  The rulebook says trailer mounted weapons can be controlled by the tractor (Don't ask me where.), so...  But because Artemis or Streak have their systems mounted to the launcher, I didn't think I could justify being able to claim the system could use them.  The beautiful thing with the system, though, is that I'm not using the massive launcher of Extended Range LRMs - because they have fewer shots/ton, I have fewer mounted per cassette, but that's it.  I maintain a very limited contact with the IS for most of the NC's existence, and when they have a chance to grab samples of new IS tech they just buy it and reverse-engineer it on the NC homeworlds.

...Oh - my Bad.  "E's" stands for Elementals - according to the fluff for the AU, my group maintains contact with the Burrocks to blackmail them.  I get the specifications and a couple samples roughly a decade after their introduction by the Wolves.  Some of the NCs decided to produce the Elemental phenotype, but most didn't.  It explains how I maintain a 'Mixed' tech rating (so that, among other things, I don't need the IS Enhanced LRMs).

[FedComGirl]

...What do you think of the drone truck and trailer idea?

It's cool.

...First, there's a rule somewhere in TM that BA equipment could be mounted on mechs if there was no equivilant equipment.  Eventually, I made a house rule to allow it on ELMs, given that I had to calculate mass by kg anyway.  Its worked out pretty well.

There is? Where?

... No, the CMS is loaded with standard SRMs or whatever.  The problem was, I designed the system maybe 10 years ago - the RL system didn't exist, yet.  As for reloading, I'm afraid you're right, after considering it for a while.  But I thought it was 30 seconds/turn?  As for the paper, its just remembering from my childhood this image of missiles being launched from a ship and shattering the white cover over the tube as it fired. ;D

Maybe one shot disposable launcher would be a better term?

The specialty missiles...  The rulebook says trailer mounted weapons can be controlled by the tractor (Don't ask me where.), so...  But because Artemis or Streak have their systems mounted to the launcher, I didn't think I could justify being able to claim the system could use them.  The beautiful thing with the system, though, is that I'm not using the massive launcher of Extended Range LRMs - because they have fewer shots/ton, I have fewer mounted per cassette, but that's it.  I maintain a very limited contact with the IS for most of the NC's existence, and when they have a chance to grab samples of new IS tech they just buy it and reverse-engineer it on the NC homeworlds.

I don't know why not. The big factor would be weight. However both would mean that the launchers are far from disposable 1 shot systems.

...Oh - my Bad.  "E's" stands for Elementals - according to the fluff for the AU, my group maintains contact with the Burrocks to blackmail them.  I get the specifications and a couple samples roughly a decade after their introduction by the Wolves.  Some of the NCs decided to produce the Elemental phenotype, but most didn't.  It explains how I maintain a 'Mixed' tech rating (so that, among other things, I don't need the IS Enhanced LRMs).

Oh. Okay.

[Red Pins]

...You know, I have to ask the writers.  I don't have time to look for it - I hope I haven't been lying to myself and just got lazy.  But 'one shot disposable launcher' lacks that snappy patter.

[FedComGirl]

Okay  ???  well as far as I know Battle Armor equipment can only be mounted on Battle Armor or I would mount it on other things.

[VF1LAM]

I like LAMs, but the idea of PAMs (Permanent AirMechs?) doesn't appeal to me.

[Red Pins]

...I figured, I only wanted to play with one mode on a LAM, and since obviously they understood the engineering well enough to allow the mech to reconfigure itself it should be far simpler to design one as a permanent version.  It was a bonus that it took out the 10% mass of the complex conversion gear.  Later, I went back to 'expanded avionics suite and fuel storage for two tons and crits to prevent people really optimizing the crap out of them. :P

[FedComGirl]

...I figured, I only wanted to play with one mode on a LAM, and since obviously they understood the engineering well enough to allow the mech to reconfigure itself it should be far simpler to design one as a permanent version.  It was a bonus that it took out the 10% mass of the complex conversion gear.  Later, I went back to 'expanded avionics suite and fuel storage for two tons and crits to prevent people really optimizing the crap out of them. :P

I would have thought that pure airmechs would have been a possibility and even remain in production as they'd be less complicated than LAMs. I don't think the avionics and fuel would be weight free though. 

[Red Pins]

...Ok - I've been thinking about the idea of a single close-range SRM equivilant of a heavy Thunderbolt.  Unfortunately, because a TOW must be fired from a stationary unit, being in SRM range would be bad.  LRM range, maybe.

With that comes an expansion of the rules for it.  It must fire from stationary, suffers no penalty for ECM, has a wider field of fire than normal (to the Left and Right arcs) because of its guidance capability, can target specific points with the normal modifier, triggers AMS, usable for vehicles only (requires a dedicated gunner), LOS is blocked by smoke, may be used in darkness (low-light function), minimum range of 3.  Comes only in TOW/10, /15, /20.  Range is the same as the normal T-bolt, same with launcher mass, crits, but minus 1-2 shots/ton of ammo.  Heat and damage remain the same.

And a couple new ideas raise their ugly heads.  Enhanced-Jump cores, fire-resistant armor for vehicles (not fire-proof), Air-launched Arrow V artillery missiles, and a Naval Gauss and AP Gauss HAG types.  The full list of Unique Technology is now;

PG 182 Unique Technology (H-AC), 19 pages;
    Heavy- and Assault Components
    Permanent AirMechs
    FighterShips
    Extra-Light Mechs
    Portable Turrets
  New Construction Equipment
    Hardpoints
    Stilts
    Armor Rescue Pods
  New Weapons
    Cassette Missile System
    AP Gauss Repeater
    Naval Gauss Repeater
    Extended-Range TAG
    Arrow V Artillery Missile
    Jump Point Missile/Mine
    Thunderbolt/TOW

  New Equipment
    Point C3 System
    Enhanced-Jump Core
    Fire-Resistant Armor

...And I've decided to standardize it for all 4 Volumes.  Gah.  I must be crazy.

[FedComGirl]

...Ok - I've been thinking about the idea of a single close-range SRM equivilant of a heavy Thunderbolt.  Unfortunately, because a TOW must be fired from a stationary unit, being in SRM range would be bad.  LRM range, maybe.

With that comes an expansion of the rules for it.  It must fire from stationary, suffers no penalty for ECM, has a wider field of fire than normal (to the Left and Right arcs) because of its guidance capability, can target specific points with the normal modifier, triggers AMS, usable for vehicles only (requires a dedicated gunner), LOS is blocked by smoke, may be used in darkness (low-light function), minimum range of 3.  Comes only in TOW/10, /15, /20.  Range is the same as the normal T-bolt, same with launcher mass, crits, but minus 1-2 shots/ton of ammo.  Heat and damage remain the same.

You could just make it an alternative ammo for all Thunderbot sizes, and have the cable reduce the range by a third. The rest sounds cool.

And a couple new ideas raise their ugly heads.  Enhanced-Jump cores, fire-resistant armor for vehicles (not fire-proof), Air-launched Arrow V artillery missiles, and a Naval Gauss and AP Gauss HAG types.  The full list of Unique Technology is now;

PG 182 Unique Technology (H-AC), 19 pages;
    Heavy- and Assault Components
    Permanent AirMechs
    FighterShips
    Extra-Light Mechs
    Portable Turrets
  New Construction Equipment
    Hardpoints
    Stilts
    Armor Rescue Pods
  New Weapons
    Cassette Missile System
    AP Gauss Repeater
    Naval Gauss Repeater
    Extended-Range TAG
    Arrow V Artillery Missile
    Jump Point Missile/Mine
    Thunderbolt/TOW

  New Equipment
    Point C3 System
    Enhanced-Jump Core
    Fire-Resistant Armor

...And I've decided to standardize it for all 4 Volumes.  Gah.  I must be crazy.

We have enhanced jump drives, extra light mechs, escape capsules air launched Arrows./

Repeaters?     Jump Point Missile/Mine?

[Khymerion]

Jump Point Missile/Mine?

Space based captor mines?   That would be great!  Of course, start adding too many mines to a jump point and there will have to be a counter eventually developed.