Author Topic: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?  (Read 31699 times)

Daryk

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #150 on: 04 January 2019, 18:11:03 »
I'm good with the variation in neurohelmet design.  Not everyone can get the latest...

Apocal

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #151 on: 04 January 2019, 19:36:22 »
I'm good with the variation in neurohelmet design.  Not everyone can get the latest...

I'm referring to how the 3025-era neurohelmets got a facelift in the new games. They no longer look like giant buckets with holes for faceplates cut out of them.


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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #152 on: 04 January 2019, 19:43:34 »


God I love this picture

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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #153 on: 04 January 2019, 19:52:39 »
I don't care how good the artwork is: if the neurohelmet doesn't look like that the art is wrong.

Daemion

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #154 on: 05 January 2019, 00:04:59 »
The ones out of FM: Draconis Combine and the Sword and Dragon Starter Book cover are how I envision a lot of them. It's the right mix of both worlds.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #155 on: 05 January 2019, 20:07:34 »
Well per the Novels and what nought

Machine guns range from 50 cal to 30 millimeter, though interestingly IIRC most Mech based ones seem to be 50 cal and ones on vehicles are 20mm, though support units seem to have 50 cals as well, thier is a 15mm HMG in use by infantry, called a Spanner

AC-2s in general range from 20 to 50mm, though 30mm is some what more common, the only RAC-2 I know of was referenced as being 40mm
AC-5s range from 40 to 120mm, 50 to 80mm being the most common range (50 being the most common around), though three systems have been listed as being above 100mm
AC-10s Range from 75 to 100mm, Clans seem to favor 75 with the IS favoring 80mm, with a few 100mm in the mix
AC-20s range from 100 to 203mm, with 120mm being the most common by far.

Autocannon shells are of coarse describe as HEAP with a "tip" of DU, as such I view them as a variation of the Mk 211 Raufoss, the novel describes them being fired as high speed streams and chewing through the armor. Most auto cannons are largely are burst firing machine guns.

Gauss rifles have few references on size one such IIRC was 100mm, their very commonly depicted as either canon ball or melon shaped, made from Nickel Iron, though their are a few references to a DU core, unlike Autocannons Muzzle velocity is fairly common, with the majority being hyper sonic (about 70-75% of the totals, ~45 vs ~15), mass weight is the same as the game (for both standard and heavy versions). Novel depictions often entail smashing of armor, ripping off limbs in not unknown.

Lasers are for me a bit contentious, Im actually in a argument right now on another forum on this, basically theirs largely enough arguments to go any number of ways I think which makes this a bit frustrating. Basically one can find examples of out right vaporization of armor, as well as melting of the armor, explosive vaporization (remove some armor that allows the rest to fly off), and a mix of explosive and melting. So how much energy this takes is up for grabs...

Their are examples of armor falling off in semi molten heaps, small streams of molten armor, as well as examples of armor being explosively removed.

Missiles are slightly smaller versions of modern AT weapons, though perhaps with a bit more yield than one might expect.


As for computers I would not know how B-tech compares but they do have ridiculously high data storage capacity (even in 3025 "mainframes" had the ability of 100 billion books). Though I do not think B-tech strictly uses a smart mainframe and dumb terminals, though I suppose it might be common for "public terminals".
Small tablets are common that do much of what every one uses smart phones for (sans the phone bit), data searches, games music & data editing.

Theirs holographic gaming consoles, heck B-tech can make a pore mans holodeck, they have 3d displays, smell o vision and tactile feed back...

Caedis Animus

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #156 on: 05 January 2019, 23:53:40 »
I don't care how good the artwork is: if the neurohelmet doesn't look like that the art is wrong.
Complete opposite for me. The new style's vastly preferable and actually looks like something useful instead of a literal bucket.

Or in that particular picture, a tic-tac with greebles mixed with MODOK.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #157 on: 06 January 2019, 00:18:27 »
I'll have to agree that some of the 80's art regarding helmets range from goofy to laughable. I can believe a helmet that's roughly the same size and shape of a modern welding helmet but some of the old art looks like a Dark Helmet Space Balls joke.
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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #158 on: 06 January 2019, 00:30:34 »
yeah, i love the snake dance art exactly because it looks incredibly silly. i always got the impression that a mechwarrior's center of gravity was about a foot above their head

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #159 on: 06 January 2019, 03:43:07 »
I like the modernization of a lot of the technical aspect of Battletech, that's just aesthetic evolution in progress. It's why the 2019 Chevy sedan doesn't look like a high tech Desoto! 😁
But I made peace with Battletechs divergence from reality regarding weapons capabilities long ago.Those choices permeate Battletechs rules and lore, it's the way the creators meant them to work; if I let that bother me then I really should play something  else for my own sanity. Our group has a saying: "keep your realism out of my Battletech".  ;D
 Battletech was built from the crazy ashes of 70s and early 80s pulp sci fi. It had LOTS of artistic styling that look more like Flash Gordon than Mechwarrior Online to today's tastes (bubble shaped repair mechs with tentacle arms comes to mind...), and its stylistic growth has given us some terrific new art and miniatures!!  I like the slightly silly older artwork, but I also love the new high tech direction the art is going. Times change, I choose not to be one of those grumpy old fossil gamers who start every comment with "back in MY day, Battletech  was...."
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Diamondshark

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #160 on: 06 January 2019, 10:14:06 »
I do like how the HBS game shows the weapons, for the most part:

Lasers are just a beam; they fire and the beam is (essentially) instantly on-target (or hitting something in the distance). Pulse lasers are more like a strobe; the pulses would still travel at the speed of light, so you wouldn't be able to see more than one of them at once.

My MechAssault into to Battletech prejudices me to think of the PPC as a bolt instead of a beam, but either way the particles would be crackling like a stun gun all the way to the target; they may even sound like one.

Flamers would probably either be a continuous spray or just a puff of propellant depending on whether you are venting from the fusion reactor or drawing from propellant.

Autocannons vary wildly, although for the life of me I can't picture LB-X Autocannons as anything except for single-shot weapons. Seeing HBS portray them all as burst-fire weapons makes sense to me, though.

Missiles are pretty straightforward, just what you're probably imagining.

Gauss Rifles are themselves almost silent, but the slug would cause sonic booms as it traveled, so that would be deafening (I doubt they would have the rings around them like you see in the games, but it does look really cool that way).

I like the modernization of a lot of the technical aspect of Battletech, that's just aesthetic evolution in progress. It's why the 2019 Chevy sedan doesn't look like a high tech Desoto! 😁

I've noticed that and I really like it--the aesthetic is starting to be less like the future of the '80s and more of a hybrid of the better parts of the '80s and today (hence why the computers look more like holographic tablets than Commodore 64s). I'm much younger than a lot of the fanbase, so I'm not really nostalgic for the '80s (I was born around the same time as the Clans irl :o), so I really appreciate cutting down on the early cheese in modern stuff, but still keeping the essence of retro sci-fi.
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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #161 on: 07 September 2019, 12:03:53 »
That annoying PPC field inhibitor that creates a 90-meter minimum range?

That exists to prevent the beam arcing through everything nearby and doing this to people.
IDK if this is really worth its own thread...

Offer you could adjust the "disengage PPC FI" rule, such that if an explosion results, the firing unit only suffers damage equal to their Margin of Failure (MoF) on the safety saving throw roll?  E.g. if you require a 10/6/3 and roll a 2, you incur 8/4/1 damage & crit ?? 

Because some of your particles are surely discharged before the arc-over occurs ??

---

also offer that the canon rules make a lot of sense, if interpreted on a more grand tactical scale, of 100m hexes & 30s turns, and remembering that "hits" are "hits doing damage" and not including ricochets & armor which gets "paint-pealing hot but not slagged"

Kidd

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #162 on: 07 September 2019, 15:20:28 »

also offer that the canon rules make a lot of sense, if interpreted on a more grand tactical scale, of 100m hexes & 30s turns, and remembering that "hits" are "hits doing damage" and not including ricochets & armor which gets "paint-pealing hot but not slagged"
180m hexes and 1 minute turns work really well for me

Thunderbolt

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #163 on: 07 September 2019, 22:02:12 »
180m hexes and 1 minute turns work really well for me
Yes, aligns better with AT2

could even round up to 200m, for slightly faster units and more round numbers ?

what would you do about HS and weapons fire, 6x per turn ?

Kidd

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #164 on: 07 September 2019, 22:36:01 »
Yes, aligns better with AT2

could even round up to 200m, for slightly faster units and more round numbers ?

what would you do about HS and weapons fire, 6x per turn ?
Doable, but multiplying by 6 keeps things simple. And units don't need to be faster than they already are.

This number is also appropriate because it means the Light Gauss reaches out to the horizon at long range

It's just fluff so heat and weapons fire doesn't matter - 1 "shot" of AC/10 doesn't mean anything in solid numbers, and "1 heat" doesn't mean anything in Fahrenheit or Celsius

Heck, I've even wondered if the Mechs and hardware might make a little more sense scaled up 5 times - 500 ton Atlas might fit better for a 12-meter tall walking tank?

CrossfirePilot

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #165 on: 07 September 2019, 22:45:24 »
yeah except a 500 ton Atlas probably would sink into all but the firmest of pavements.

Kidd

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #166 on: 07 September 2019, 23:10:21 »
yeah except a 500 ton Atlas probably would sink into all but the firmest of pavements.
Oh yeah right

Welp. Back to BT magic metallurgy.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #167 on: 07 September 2019, 23:27:39 »
How do I image battletech weapons? As reality-breaking monstrosities that obey the 'rule of cool' and 'anime physics' instead of anything we live in, same as battletech armor.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #168 on: 08 September 2019, 00:38:49 »
Compare Battlemechs to modern tanks - and consider the 'Mech to be laying down.  They're not that much bigger, really; an armored beast like the M1A1 Abrams weighs in at 57 metric tons - right between, say, a Quickdraw and a Griffin.  And it's 7.93m long in the hull, 9.77m with the gun, while being 3.66m width and 2.44m high, which honestly is not going to be all that much different than a 'Mech's dimensions. 

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #169 on: 08 September 2019, 01:07:27 »
Please remember that fan rules and all discussion thereof go only in Fan Rules. C:-)
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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #170 on: 09 September 2019, 10:06:58 »
Okay.  After having thought a little bit about ACs, and how I meta specialty ammo types that aren't Precision and AP, it got me remembering the write-up behind the Precision and AP ammo and their developments.

They use intrinsic properties already found in AC munitions and amp up certain aspects.

I always knew that the HEAP designation was layman's terms, and that AC munitions already had some sort of armor piercing qualities, and yet in the game, they don't readily breach armor or get a bonus on TACs or such.  But, then we get the specialty AP round, which does.

That's already a thing for me, but then there's precision ammo, which homes in on fast moving targets, effectively negating their TMM.  At some point in the past, I had considered that AC rounds might have some sort of homing capacity to explain why they group as solidly as they do.  The RAC would confirm this especially, since it strictly does 5-point groupings.  Same with ultra cannons, though I always looked at that as quick-reloading of a cassette and firing two separate bursts.

So, I've come to revise my vision of AC rounds in-flight, and that they do have some sort of homing capacity.

That same may be true of Machine guns, by-the-way, and maybe HAG rounds, too.

On the infantry front, at one time, I figured that guys toting support weapons had gyro-stabilized support harnesses that the weapons were mounted to, like in Aliens, and that explained why the could run and gun with those heavy MGs, SRMs and what-have-you.

Not sure if that's been upheld in the updated house books, but it helped with the imagery a little, especially for front-line infantry meant to be duking it out with Mechs, tanks, and battle armor.

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Kidd

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #171 on: 09 September 2019, 10:13:52 »
What I recall from novel fluff (Imminent Crisis) is that Precision AC rounds are actively self-steering, probably that means fins and a seeker head.

"Armour-piercing" AC rounds are just more armour-piercing than regular armour-piercing AC rounds thanks to the use of advanced materials, probably that means penetrators or novel explosives or both.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #172 on: 09 September 2019, 17:18:43 »
I'm currently toying with figuring out how infantry support lasers would be mounted on larger things like 'mechs.  They don't really stack up to the Medium Laser in any way, but few things do.  I suppose it just goes to show how "right" the engineers that built that thing got it.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #173 on: 09 September 2019, 17:28:59 »
I'm currently toying with figuring out how infantry support lasers would be mounted on larger things like 'mechs.  They don't really stack up to the Medium Laser in any way, but few things do.  I suppose it just goes to show how "right" the engineers that built that thing got it.

Don't try to mount a thousand squad support weapons on battlemechs. That way lies madness.

Daryk

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #174 on: 09 September 2019, 18:00:38 »
I once designed a LAM with 30 Small Lasers... it doesn't get much worse than that.  Especially since the minimum tonnage I'm contemplating for all the remote weapon station targeting, stabilization and cooling connections is the ER Micro Laser's 0.25 tons.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #175 on: 10 September 2019, 08:17:12 »
That's already a thing for me, but then there's precision ammo, which homes in on fast moving targets, effectively negating their TMM.  At some point in the past, I had considered that AC rounds might have some sort of homing capacity to explain why they group as solidly as they do.  The RAC would confirm this especially, since it strictly does 5-point groupings.  Same with ultra cannons, though I always looked at that as quick-reloading of a cassette and firing two separate bursts.
RACs group based on gun size.  RAC 2's do 2 point groups.


At one point I played with the idea that AC calibers weren't all that different since the damage per ton of ammo is about the same across the the board. The main difference was in rate of fire.  AC/2's fire in the low thousands of rounds per minute, while AC/20's fire ALL the rounds per minute.  Bigger, beefier, feed mechanisms translated into bigger, heavier weapons.  An M134 will fire as fast as the motor will spin.  Replace that 1.5kW motor with a 6kW motor, design a stronger link for the ammo belt to account for being pulled into the gun a LOT faster, scale up the de-linker to handle the new links and higher forces, and add a separate motor to push the ammo belt along, put on you your brown pants, and 18 thousand RPM is not out of the realm of possibility.

Neglecting the issue of keeping such a monster fed, how long could a modern tank hold up to 7.62mm at just under 20,000 rpm?
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Apocal

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #176 on: 10 September 2019, 10:44:08 »
Neglecting the issue of keeping such a monster fed, how long could a modern tank hold up to 7.62mm at just under 20,000 rpm?

An extremely long time, most likely.

One of the ranges I shot at while I was in the military had an old tank (an M48?) there for just such a purpose. The thing had been there for years, pock-marked to hell and back, but still absolutely proof against a handful of 7.62mm machine guns banging away at it (and other targets) for minutes at a time. It almost certainly never hit 20,000 rpm, but that experience makes me skeptical that sending tens of thousands of intermediate caliber rounds downrange at an armored vehicle was a good idea for anything but sending ricochets to decorate the landscape.

The rounds themselves either skip off or don't survive the impact enough to actually penetrate. Imagine piercing concrete by throwing carrots at it, if a mental image would help.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #177 on: 10 September 2019, 13:05:05 »
Imagine piercing concrete by throwing carrots at it, if a mental image would help.
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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #178 on: 10 September 2019, 19:58:03 »
Doable, but multiplying by 6 keeps things simple. And units don't need to be faster than they already are.

This number is also appropriate because it means the Light Gauss reaches out to the horizon at long range

It's just fluff so heat and weapons fire doesn't matter - 1 "shot" of AC/10 doesn't mean anything in solid numbers, and "1 heat" doesn't mean anything in Fahrenheit or Celsius

Heck, I've even wondered if the Mechs and hardware might make a little more sense scaled up 5 times - 500 ton Atlas might fit better for a 12-meter tall walking tank?

Agree 100%.  When I think of a Warhammer, I don't think of something that is the same weight as an Abrams.

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Re: Battletech weapons. How do you imagine them?
« Reply #179 on: 11 September 2019, 00:29:39 »
BT lists the height range of mechs as 7-17m

If you calculate the volume of say a very rectangularish blocky Thanatos from MW4V, you get something like 250 cubic meters implying its 70 tons would float on water

7m tall and everything checks out, more similar to a MBT