Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - Houston, we are go for launch!

[rebs]

I posted about that couple pages ago, Reb.  Did they change something like the carrier their using? NOthing beyond project was announced last time.

No it's the press release.  Sorry, forgot you posted that already.  It is exciting news, though.

[rebs]

More bad news from spaaace...

The Boeing Starliner capsule is returning from tests back to the factory.  Details below.

https://www.space.com/amp/boeing-starliner-oft-2-indefinite-delay-factory-return

[Daryk]

13 valves?!  That's something more than component failure.  Sounds like something systemic needs changing to me, and I think it just might be the oxidizer...

[rebs]

You know?  I hope we are at or near the end of the space capsule age.  We need something better than the Orion or this.

But I do understand it's necessary because a next generation space shuttle never materialized.

[BirdofPrey]

You know?  I hope we are at or near the end of the space capsule age.  We need something better than the Orion or this.

But I do understand it's necessary because a next generation space shuttle never materialized.

Honestly, this seems more like Boeing has lost their edge to me.  Their planes have also had issues in the recent past.
Orion progress is slow but seems like it's otherwise going well.  Dragon seems to also be solid; cargo dragon at least is reasonably proven by now though only time will tell how good these new crew capsules are.  Soyuz and Progress have performed admirably for decades.

Really, it seems to me what needs work is the launch vehicles.  Get more rockets to have reusability like the Falcon 9 does, get upper stage reusability.

As for spaceplanes, the main reason they keep getting canceled is the flight capability really eats into the payload capacity, and the aerodynamics of the Space shuttle itself contributed to it being a deathtrap (granted some of those issues could have been mitigated had they developed liquid boosters that can be shut down in an emergency).

Really, I don't see anything better until we can get single stage to orbit vehicles.  A spaceplane that can just take of from a runway and climb to space might actually be able to justify wings on a spacecraft

[rebs]

Good insight.  I wasn't saying aerospace planes, but I was still saying aerospace planes, lol...

I long mightily for the magic fusion power plants we know and love in BT.

[BirdofPrey]

I would certainly love to see a larger craft, of course.  While the Space Shuttle was somethin of a boondoggle, it did serve some functions that are now left unfulfilled.
The ability to carry cargo and crew and grapple with other craft allowed for on-orbit servicing of satellites.  Hubble has been refurbished multiple times.  That's something that seems important, but cant be done now, though they are looking into automated craft for that.

The other big thing the Space Shuttle did was assemble the ISS.  While it's not strictly necessary given other space stations, the Russian Orbital Segment, and even the fact other craft have delivered equipment to the US Orbital Segment (and Axiom has plans to deliver full-sized modules in a few years), I would imagine it could be helpful for early construction stages before all the primary systems are installed and online.

There is Starship which is a heavy lift vehicle that's supposed to be able to carry cargo and crew, though I am not sure how well it will be able to perform the above tasks, but it does at least demonstrate an alternative to a winged craft than can return and be reused (and I would say it's not a space capsule, perhaps even reminds me of the old B space films of yore, landing the rocket on another planet).


In the long term I would LOVE to see the STS plan tried again and actually succeed.  That's what the Space shuttle was a part of, and an overall successor that includes all of the components (ground to orbit crew and cargo craft, space tugs and ferries, orbital station all to support larger/longer missions) this time is what would really be good.  At the very least the ISS is approaching the end of its lifespan, and the proposed Lunar Gateway is much smaller even if its mission is a bit bolder.

As for capsules, until we're regularly ferrying dozens of people up and down, they still make a lot of sense.  Have a small craft when you only need to move a few people and save the costly larger stuff for when you need more.


and yes, magical fusion drives would be great.  Though, once in space, NERVA's not bad.

[Wrangler]

There was talk between the guys on NASA spaceflight whom cover all spaceflight related things. The guys over the weekend had suspect the heavy storms were likely cause of the issue due to moisture effecting fuel  detoritating the valves. The Space Shuttle had same issues with their valves. They remedy that issue with covers over the valves.

[Sabelkatten]

I wonder what the remaining hurdles for VentureStar was? From what I heard the big problem was the fuel tank, and that was supposedly solved?

Admittedly if SpaceX gets Starship flying as planned we'll have a fully reusable launch vehicle. That it's two-stage won't take away from the reusability.

[kato]

For a newer spaceplane project:

The German Space Agency DLR has a TSTO spaceplane launcher project called "Aurora" under development since 2016.

Planning is for a reusable light satellite launcher with 800-1000 kg LEO payload using a lightweight kicker stage launched by Aurora at very high (suborbital) altitude at hypersonic (Mach 10+) speed.  Conceptually unmanned, although an option for manned suborbital flights in particular for space tourism or astronaut training is technically on the table. Unmanned suborbital research missions with heavy payload up to 10 tons are explicitly part of the project, as that's what DLR was partially interested in.

Long-term it is planned to shift it over to full SSTO. The system is supposed to use Linear Aerospike engines like Venture Star, with a downscaled rocket-powered version to be implemented first in early stages if it is built. Unlike Venture Star the concept is intended for horizontal takeoff from conventional runways. The idea is to minimize non-reusable parts to 5-10% of the launch system, achieve cost reductions by between 66% and 90% over conventional launchers (i.e. being cheaper than SpaceX backend costs) and allow for a launch-on-demand responsive launch capacity.

The project is apparently sufficiently advanced that DLR has shifted the project over into a commercial exploitation spinoff company. They're currently trying for military applications to raise some money (scaled-down version as suborbital reconnaissance drone, evaluation contract from the German Air Force Space Command).

[Daryk]

This has some serious potential, I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz165f1g8-E

3D printed rockets could really change things (finally)...

[rebs]

Scientists have been using ripples in Saturn's rings to determine the size of the second largest planet's core.  Results are in, and it seems the Saturnian core is quite large, being 17 times the mass of Earth, and composed of mostly hydrogen, helium, water ice and rock.  Now to re-explain almost everything we thought we knew about Saturn's magnetic field and other physical aspects.

More to read here...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/ripples-in-saturns-rings-reveal-the-planets-giant-slushy-core/ar-AANnIQp

[Wrangler]

Dragonfly mission to Titan explained little more detail using the RTS Powered Quad Coptor on Gizmo  In nut shell, the mission scheduled to launch in 2027.  The bot is scheduled to arrive in 2030s.  Taking advantage of the moon's thick atmosphere, the copter will fly about examine the surface in ways not seen before outsider tiny copter on Mars.  Titan is one of the only known planetoids in the solar system which has thick atmosphere to allow for liquids to exist on the surface outside of Earth. 

I love how the writer of the article was saying its not unlike the fictional Dune novel world of Harkonnen planet of Giedi Prime, which has oily surface.

It will be interesting once the missing gets off the ground.

[rebs]

Think they will use the SLS to propel the the Dragonfly mission to Saturn?  It would be a great way to display the power of the vaunted SLS.

[Wrangler]

At rate the SLS program is going cost wise and delays, it will be cheaper to use the Falcon Heavy with it using the center core on a long burn vs having it return to base like their doing for the Europa Clipper.

[rebs]

That's true.  But I read that the SLS would be able to take a Casini type probe to Uranus directly, without any gravity assists, and do it in 7 years.  Extrapolating from that, it could get to Saturn in just under 4 years.

I feel the need for speed, so I hope NASA gets its ducks in a row and we get our SLS.

Edit: I'm just a fanatic of the outer Solar System and our exploration there is just as critical as exploring Mars, Venus and Mercury.   The SLS is much needed for our efforts.

[Daryk]

Mars and Venus are the only remotely terraform-able bodies though, and Mercury is just easier to get to than anything in the outer system.

That said, I think the outer system needs to be explored too, but trying to boost the priority above Mars and Venus just doesn't make sense.

[rebs]

Mars and Venus are the only remotely terraform-able bodies though, and Mercury is just easier to get to than anything in the outer system.

That said, I think the outer system needs to be explored too, but trying to boost the priority above Mars and Venus just doesn't make sense.

I didn't put it above it, but equally each needs attention I feel.  Especially not above Mars, which will be more of a near future project for us. 

I was just saying the SLS is going to be a very valuable tool for getting our robotic probes to these far flung places.

[Daryk]

Totally agreed!  :thumbsup:

[rebs]

Another thing we can look to the future for is the recent advance in fusion. 

Bear with me a bit, but in the future, as we bring manufacturing capabilities up into the heavens, we can perhaps build those gigantic lasers lasers up there.  That's the hard part.  Parts like lenses would probably have to still come from Earth.  But an open ended system for exhaust and propulsion would be much easier to build than full containment.  It is feasible, but far off still.

And if we manufactured it and assembled it in either the outer parts of the asteroid belt or the Jupiter family of Trojans, we would not have to worry about radiation for workers doing spacewalks. 

Thank you for bearing with me, dear readers.  This is why I'm excited for the Lucy mission.  If the Trojans have a good mix of iron/nickle/cobalt, rock or agragate, and water ice, then it's perfect.  Lucy will get a close look at a few Trojans, and will be in position to closely observe the spectra and other features of several more. 

[Daryk]

My personal goal is just live those "30 years" to see fusion finally be commercialized...  ::)

[rebs]

Haha!  We were once told (mostly by Disney) that we would all have flying cars and jetpacks for several years now.  WHERE'S MY JETPACK?  I want to be a jump infantry reservist.  ;D

But fusion?  I read those articles and think of the SMAC Fusion cutscene:

"Fusion is now".

We still need to research a few supporting technologies first.

[Natasha Kerensky]

I was just saying the SLS is going to be a very valuable tool for getting our robotic probes to these far flung places.

Unfortunately, SLS can’t help.  Production/launch rate is too low, and acoustic environment poses problems.  Even without these issues, higher cost of SLS swamps any savings from shorter mission ops.

[Weirdo]

Haha!  We were once told (mostly by Disney) that we would all have flying cars and jetpacks for several years now.  WHERE'S MY JETPACK?  I want to be a jump infantry reservist.  ;D

Having seen people's driving and flying, I'm honestly kinda glad those things have yet to pan out...

[Daryk]

Amen to that, though I'll say the vehicle that came closest to creaming me as a pedestrian was a bicycle...

[rebs]

Having seen people's driving and flying, I'm honestly kinda glad those things have yet to pan out...

Cojent, to be sure...

I have one comment about car accidents.  I'm glad my head is still attached after mine (23 years ago...  still got the scars on my neck).

But if I was flying, I could have flew over or dived under the cabbie that backed out in front of me.

[Weirdo]

Ah, but how much would you trust that cabbie with a third dimension to steer in? :)

[rebs]

Ah, but how much would you trust that cabbie with a third dimension to steer in? :)

Yeah, I could be dead and not present to have enjoyed the Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration thread.  :thumbsup:

[Daryk]

Here's an interesting discussion of nuclear propulsion for spaceships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMLgJlJX0Rk

[rebs]

Good video!  Glad you posted it.