Author Topic: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - Houston, we are go for launch!  (Read 117462 times)

kato

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Oystein once clarified that for every habitable star system on our map there are hundreds and up to a thousand uninhabitable systems between.  Not sure if those numbers still hold, but that gives one an idea of how many stars jumpship captains have to work with.
If you
a) take a sample of all (known today) stars in a certain diameter of 3D sphere around Earth
b) constrain them to jumpable stars only - no solitary brown dwarfs etc
c) calculate their average distance from each other
d) based on that average distance cast them onto a 2D map

Then depending on diameter chosen for a) you get a pretty consistent result of around 10,000 to 11,000 stars within the area of the Inner Sphere on a 2D map base.
I've typically used 100 LY spheres around Earth as a sample base, as beyond that you get a bit unmanageable numbers initially (SIMBAD TAP lets you draw Gaia DR2 results out to about 300 LY before it hits its output limits).

You actually have to play with the local density a bit (it varies in real life too of course, although on a minor order of magnitude) in order to accomodate the numbers you need for the Alliance Grand Surveys, and depending on how you massage those numbers you´ll end up at 90-100% "once settled" systems within about 120 LY of Terra and the perception that humanity spread like cockroaches in the 22nd century.

In order to even accomodate those numbers though you also have to assume massive efforts of terraforming and domed colonies like Sirius V, and not just using statistically habitable planets as per the current set of rules. At one point i was looking into modeling that factor possibly based on Era, Tech Level and Economy, and came to the conclusion that most likely in the Periphery, what we're seeing on the map is pretty much what's out there in settled systems, with sufficiently sparse numbers to always allow some extra pirate base but nowhere on the scale of 1:1 added worlds as has been hinted at for the Houses.
« Last Edit: 11 December 2021, 05:43:36 by kato »

worktroll

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Capturing a super-jovian in a binary system does not sound energetically stable.
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Maybe it was almost a trinary, or it actually was one and the two larger stars pulled too much material off the third?
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rebs

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The boys and girls at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab are on to a new idea for a system of propulsion that is much stronger and three times as efficient than any current rocket in testing or use.  Called Solar Thermal Propulsion, it would involve heating Hydrogen fuel with the sun to produce thrust.

Read more about it here, courtesy of Popular Mechanics.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a34757028/rocket-engine-solar-thermal-propulsion-interstellar-travel/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBPOP
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Natasha Kerensky

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The boys and girls at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab are on to a new idea for a system of propulsion that is much stronger and three times as efficient than any current rocket in testing or use.  Called Solar Thermal Propulsion

There is nothing new under the Sun...

https://www.space.com/4559-darpa-readies-demonstration-radically-space-propulsion.html

Besides, laser and microwave thermal propulsion is where it’s at...

https://www.space.com/10658-laser-rocket-propulsion-technology.html
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rebs

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There is nothing new under the Sun...

https://www.space.com/4559-darpa-readies-demonstration-radically-space-propulsion.html

The scale of the project is what's new; it's not simply pushing an existing satellite into a new orbit.  The article I posted was about being able to fling a space probe out of the solar system twice as fast as Voyager 1 took to "leave". 

On the other hand, how practical it will be for human interstellar space flight deserves more skepticism.  Microwave and laser propulsion systems might be better suited for that.
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worktroll

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The other thing is that you can only use the engine while close enough to the sun to get the efficiencies they're talking about. So minimal ability to course correct, slingshot further off Jupiter, etc.

I can't help but wish to see the maths that shows this intense short-period thrust beats the "slow but steady" of ion drives, or even (from this keyboard to Ghu's ears) VASIMR.
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rebs

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The other thing is that you can only use the engine while close enough to the sun to get the efficiencies they're talking about. So minimal ability to course correct, slingshot further off Jupiter, etc.

I can't help but wish to see the maths that shows this intense short-period thrust beats the "slow but steady" of ion drives, or even (from this keyboard to Ghu's ears) VASIMR.

VASIMR looks very interesting.  Not gonna lie, I had to look it up because it's new to me. I hope to see some of these technologies (VASIMR or Laser/Microwave Thermal) not just developed, but put to use.

And yeah, with Solar Thermal Propulsion there would be no maneuvering for a slingshot off of Jupiter, would there be?  Rhetorical, of course, since you already said as much. 
« Last Edit: 12 December 2021, 00:53:05 by rebs »
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Natasha Kerensky

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The scale of the project is what's new; it's not simply pushing an existing satellite into a new orbit.  The article I posted was about being able to fling a space probe out of the solar system twice as fast as Voyager 1 took to "leave".

Interstellar mission concepts using STP have been around for decades:

https://kiss.caltech.edu/workshops/ism/presentations/AIAA-2001-3377-169.pdf
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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VASIMR looks very interesting.  Not gonna lie, I had to look it up because it's new to me. I hope to see some of these technologies (VASIMR or Laser/Microwave Thermal) not just developed, but put to use.

VASIMR doesn’t look so good when the penalties of the power source are included.  Beamed thermal leaves the power source on the ground, which is enormously advantageous.

Quote
And yeah, with Solar Thermal Propulsion there would be no maneuvering for a slingshot off of Jupiter, would there be?  Rhetorical, of course, since you already said as much.

You’d want to fall towards the Sun and use the STP system to do a slingshot around the Sun.  A second gas giant slingshot is possible, ideally using the same STP system.  But even a secondary propulsion system could do the second slingshot as long as he slingshot delivers more dV than the secondary propulsion system subtracts.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

rebs

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It's incredible the Probe is managing survive such conditions. 
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kato

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It's incredible the Probe is managing survive such conditions.
Lack of a transfer medium. While there are heated particles most of space around the probe is still a vacuum and hence around -273°C.

It's expected that the heatshield will be heated to around 1400°C through the corona particles it impacts. It's tested to about 250° more than that.

Bedwyr

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What's the current status of the JWST launch? Delayed till New Years?
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Wrangler

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What's the current status of the JWST launch? Delayed till New Years?
Slated for a Christmas Eve launch
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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rebs

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ESA scientists have recently discovered a large concentration of Hydrogen atoms in the center of a stretch of Valles Marineris on Mars, indicating abundant water ice.

https://www.space.com/mars-water-below-valles-marineris-canyon?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=space.com
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rebs

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Here's an interesting theory.  Primordial Black Holes that could possibly help explain early star formation. And if we're good, it may also explain more about Dark Matter.

https://www.space.com/primordial-black-holes-explain-dark-matter-universe-mysteries?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=space.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow
Playing Guitar On My YouTube Channel:
Current cover tune: "The Wind Cries Mary" (by Jimi Hendrix)
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"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

Wrangler

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I don't have the article link handy, however I read recently that one of the dwarf galaxies that's getting absorbed by the Milky Way actually has a rather large black hole or a strange one in it.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
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rebs

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Playing Guitar On My YouTube Channel:
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"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

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Hopefully that will help explain the dark matter problem...

Bedwyr

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It's not often you successfully complete a complex orbital launch and say "OK, easy part's done" yet here we are.

JWST on it's way.
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And power positive, too.  Everything seems to be working!  :thumbsup:

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Huzzah JWST! Bon Voyage! :)
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rebs

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Here's a launch video from YouTube, in case anyone wants to see it.

https://youtu.be/rhtQeqx-riI
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"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

worktroll

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Anyone know the rationale for using an Ariane?
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Death_from_above

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https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/launch.html

Launch Vehicle
The James Webb Space Telescope will be launched on an Ariane 5 rocket. The launch vehicle is part of the European contribution to the mission. The Ariane 5 is one of the world's most reliable launch vehicles capable of delivering Webb to its destination in space. The European Space Agency (ESA) has agreed to provide an Ariane 5 launcher and associated launch services to NASA for Webb. The Ariane 5's record for successful consecutive launches is 80 (as of June 28, 2017).

Sabelkatten

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IIRC launching from Kourou was also slightly more efficient for the target orbit.

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I suppose it's 81 now for consecutive successful launches.  And they talked about the extra boost from launching close to the equator in the pre-launch discussions this morning.

Frabby

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Have there been no Ariane 5 launches since June 2017?
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Daryk

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If guess I should have said "at least 81"...  :)

 

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