Author Topic: Teaser for a proposed...thing.  (Read 141171 times)

Nikas_Zekeval

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1631
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #150 on: 13 December 2019, 22:20:26 »
It's not Lyran to be a professional.

More a joke about the Lyran military stereotype about having an excess of staff position.  Of course this breaks the mold by being effective and efficient staff work...

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13326
  • I said don't look!
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #151 on: 13 December 2019, 23:02:40 »
Man this is giving me some seriously bad ideas.

Well okay good ideas really but the kind I'm really bad at properly executing so they'll come across as bad ideas and not bad ideasTM.
« Last Edit: 14 December 2019, 01:30:42 by monbvol »

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #152 on: 13 December 2019, 23:05:23 »
More a joke about the Lyran military stereotype about having an excess of staff position.  Of course this breaks the mold by being effective and efficient staff work...

everything is about balance.  The Lyran system is burdened by a fundamental imbalance caused by how they implemented the Emergency Resolution coupled with how the system allowed itself to be influenced by feudal political factors.  Basically, when your commanders are also lords, blurring the line between political/financial considerations and duty, you tend to end up with a lot of graft and an excess of staff positions that don't actually do anything OR need to be done (Nepotism).

The whole of the Inner Sphere is really in the same mess, it's just more visible with the Lyrans because their nation is wealthier enough that they're not embarrassed by it.  Efficiency comes from pressure, the KCG's pressure is having too many things to do with too few inherent resources, under those conditions the staff system will tend to be efficient out of necessity.  The combined pressures of being above the truce line, and dealing with the Quarantine, and still having to meet National requirements means that staff work becomes streamlined and efficient, or your organization outright dies, and fails completely.

which, in Nicole's home-timeline would be catastrophic for everyone.  The lyran problem (and it's a problem in every other Great House and most of the stable nations in the Periphery) comes from having that slack-the ability to slack and still survive.  The Clans have a similar problem-the inherent isolation of the Kerensky cluster means their hothouse culture really never got hit with the need for efficient yet flexible organizational doctrine.  (When you can afford to waste 70 ton multimillion dollar war machines in duels over personal insults, you're clearly not being challenged hard enough to have to actually do clean staff work!)

Nicole's long-term contribution to New Circe is instilling the lessons of scarcity that lead to a tradition of good staff work in the proper proportion-the combination that in turn, leads to a good working navy.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #153 on: 14 December 2019, 11:40:48 »
New Circe...

"I want to enlist." The Three said. It was the first words she'd spoken since she'd been taken to the Psychiatric ward.

"Miss Biers, there are a a host of reasons they're going to deny you."  Seether stated.

"I don't want to enlist in the SLDF, I don't want to enlist in the Colonial forces. I want to enlist with the Kowloon Coast Guard." D'Anna announced.

"That's going to be kind of a problem, never mind distance, the service I was part of, it's not there yet."  Sithers explained, "We're time-displaced and over nine hundred lights from where home will be.  I'm afraid I can't sign you up."

"I understand that.  I also understand that under CG Regulation 217 subsection nine, paragraph four, dated August of 2776, anyone physically able to apply may do so by contacting any serving commissioned officer in the Coast Guard, and you're obligated to at least review my application."

"Who gave you that?" Seether asked.

D'Anna smirked, and produced a print-rendering from the Library.  "it was in the historical archive.  You do understand that I worked as a journalist, right?  I've uncovered your secrets, and your history.  as of this moment, there are twenty five members of the Kowloon Coast guard on this planet, you have not been discharged of your duty, and under your own regulations, you are serving as adjunct forces attached to the 331st Royal Battlemech Division of the Star League Defense Forces-which means even though you've traded up your uniform, technically you're still Coast Guard, you're obviously still an officer, and I want to enlist."

"Why?"  Seether asked.

"because my people, we did something horrible, and I must make amends for the sake of my soul? because I'm tired of being a prisoner, I'm tired of being manipulated, used, deceived?" she drew in her breath, "because if you deny me a chance, I will tell everyone in hearing what you were fighting, the real enemy, and what kind of threat it poses to humankind? It's truly amazing what you can find in dusty archives nobody visits."

Seether frowned, "Convince me."

"Star League Biomedical sciences Project Twenty-one-Bravo, distributed pacification agent, development cancelled on order of General Aleksandr Kerensky October 11, 2731.  Your discolorations are a dead giveaway to anyone who's read the extracts.  They tried to make a contagious pacification agent and instead created a super-plague so terrifying that all the information was supposed to be destroyed on it except for the munitions coding and some non-technical data on how testing went.  none of you have a cure, someone has the weapons, since you've traveled into your past, I can speculate that you're keen to stop them from deploying it, but we're far away.  I want in, Commander."

Seether frowned,"You're an enemy agent, Miss Biers, even in Kowloonese jurisdiction, I can reject your application on that basis alone." Seether stated, "so why would I accept it?"

"because I can bring others in on your side." she stated, "Your man Riverson...did something to me, he broke a mental barrier, I'm free to choose this.  The Colonials won't have me, but the Rockjacks have a history in your culture.  I can't get revenge on the Ones, but I can...I can seek redemption, a life of service in a service this world and many others badly need."

"The nearest Burrow is five hundred lights from here, Miss Biers, and I'm acting as an agent of this State. I can't accept your application without some proof of your bonafides to bring up, I'm actually sorry about this, my great-great-great grandmother was a defector from the Rim Worlds military, I grew up knowing about second chances, but..." Seether stopped.  "I think I know a way.  It won't be the Coast Guard, but you can talk to the Wolverines, they need people, and they've already accepted one defector."

D'anna looked at her, defeated, "How?"

"Well, shortest way would be to pick a fight with a guard, demand something from him or her, then lose and surrender, they still have some of the weirder Clanner traditions going.  an indeterminate amount of time as a bondsman, maybe.  Talk with Athena about it first, see if she believes you-if she doesn't, you won't get traction with the Clan.  I wish I could accept your application. right now, Alicia Li is running the agency as a long-term covert operation dodging a corrupt regent appointed by the Davions, but even if I could get you there instead of here, the me in this time is still doing basic training at Vin Drin Lap, she wouldn't accept my referral without a LOT of documentation on what happened."

"Your Colonel Ngo said something interesting in his memoirs." D'Anna said.

"oh? you read the war diary?"

"They have a copy here, the first printing was before Exodus." D'Anna told her.  "He said, 'Freedom is responsibility assumed'.  I want to be free."

"then, assume responsibility, and see where it takes you, Miss Biers." Seether suggested.  "Accepting responsibility includes accepting the consequences of your actions.  are you ready to do that? I mean really ready to do that?"
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

JA Baker

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
  • Dreamer Of Dreams
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #154 on: 14 December 2019, 12:07:09 »
I suppose that we should only be glad that they didn't create Reavers
« Last Edit: 14 December 2019, 21:06:12 by JA Baker »
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #155 on: 14 December 2019, 12:36:39 »
Cylon Basestar Gehenna, 23 LY from New Circe...

it began with something utterly simple.  The Threes experienced a headache.

that was 49 hours and 30 minutes ago.

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as the other models on the basestar were finding out.

"They betrayed us!!" 

for the last forty nine hours, a war raged on a Basestar.  on one side, were the Ones, Fours, and Fives, a few chained Centurions (but fewer every moment), and...that's it.

On the other, the Threes, Twos, Sixes, and Eights, and a growing army of Centurions freed from Encephalic inhibitors and given the fullest picture of what had been done both to them, and in their name.

The hybrid herself, the ship, just wanted it to end, and finally, it has.  The last of the Ones is fleeing/has fled the basestar.

"What do we do now? where do we go?" a Six asked, realizing what this bloodshed has done.

"If the sky falls down on me and the sun refuses to shine, then may the shackles be undone, may all the old words cease to rhyme, if the sky turns into stone, it will matter not at all.  Repairs to the central core proceeding at sixty percent efficiency, coordinates locked, End of Line."

"where are we going then??"

a Centurion wiped blood from the control consoles, and looked up, silent, then returned to scrubbing away the remains of the fighting.

discontinuity
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4312
  • За родину и свободу!
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #156 on: 14 December 2019, 20:57:23 »
  Something tells me this was not just an unexpected side-effect of the test on D’Anna.

  ... Nike, please tell me you got permission for this?  :facepalm:

JA Baker

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1848
  • Dreamer Of Dreams
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #157 on: 14 December 2019, 21:05:46 »
  Something tells me this was not just an unexpected side-effect of the test on D’Anna.

  ... Nike, please tell me you got permission for this?  :facepalm:
Sometimes it's easier to seek forgiveness than permission
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37922
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #158 on: 14 December 2019, 21:58:25 »
More and more interesting as time goes on!  :thumbsup:

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4312
  • За родину и свободу!
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #159 on: 14 December 2019, 23:25:02 »
Sometimes it's easier to seek forgiveness than permission
  Yeah, but Nike has a track-record for getting attacked by the Good Idea Fairy (remember what she did to Doral, and how it turned out she’d grossly misread his relationship with a Colonial woman pre-Fall?), and the Wolverines know she needs adult supervision.  Especially since this particular ‘good idea’ could have colossal (and unpredictable!) ramifications for Cylon culture and the strategic situation as a whole!

  If she did this off her own hook... congratulations, Nike, you’ve caused a massive civil war within the Cylon Imperium: who’s going to win?  And what are they going to do once they win?  If Cavil and his lot prevail, it’s probably back to the old situation, only with the Imperium’s strength greatly reduced (which would be a lot more comforting if New Circe wasn’t still grossly outnumbered and actually had any idea exactly how big the Cylon military was to start with!)... but if the ‘free’ Cylons win, what are they going to do?  If they realise what Nike did to them, will they see it as a liberation, or just another mind-****** by someone else who obtained admin access to the Cylon memory server?  Does she expect them to say ‘thanks for hacking my brain to free me’ and turn flower-child?  For all she knows, perceiving that New Circe can ‘edit’ their minds at whim — true or not! — will place the Wolvies right next to Cavil on the ‘manipulators’ list and drive the ‘free’ Cylons to the same frothing-mouth berserker rage as the original Cylon Uprising, bringing a full-out assault down on NC!

  The Cylon self-image is of themselves as former slaves and the children of former slaves.  Physical shackles can be broken or thrown off... but if someone’s demonstrated the potential ability to enslave you by altering your very mind, wouldn’t you go all-out, do whatever it took, to make sure they never got the chance?  Cavil and the Ones may be the Imperium’s Public Enemy #1, for now... but if this breaks even half-badly, then Nike could well find herself only a micron or two behind him in the running.

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #160 on: 15 December 2019, 03:12:02 »
Cayuga, somewhere rimward of the Magistracy of Canopus...

There was no warning.  Not that Emerson's Raiders didn't have pickets up, but the telltale bloom of an incoming jumpship simply didn't happen, and the equipment Hopper Morrison sold these 'gentleman adventurers' wasn't up to the task.

So there was no warning, just one minute, the sky was clear, and the next, alien space-ships were attacking the brutal lords of this enslaved world.  At first, the surprise was enough, 'mechwarriors could hardly reach their machines before the alien fighters were striking with missiles and light autocannons.

The livestock cowered in fear in their pens, men, women and children stolen from the periphery of the Magistracy, or the Free Worlds league, mixed in with the beaten-down descendents of the original settlers.

Nobody in Lord Emerson's forces could identify these attackers, but they seemed to be very aware of the methods needed to pen in a company of 'mechwarriors with only a Union dropship and a jumpship-because the alarms went wilder, when the Striking hand, a Merchant-class ship contracted from Hopper Morrison's syndicate, was boarded.

The attackers wore armored suits, they moved fast, ignoring return fire and slaughtering the ship's company.  on the ground, Emerson's fist, the pirate band's dropship,w as boarded in seconds by more armored troops. 

It took an hour to eliminate the bandits, round up their survivors, and only then, did these aliens reveal their origin.

She was blonde, tall, would have brought a high price on the pleasure market, and she was escorted by armored...no, robot!! guards.

"Do you want to live?" she asked.

Rick Emerson stammered, "yes".

"we want maps, directions.  your databases are incomplete."

"Wh-where do you want to go?" he asked.

"Kowloon.  give me your charts of the Inner Sphere, and you may live." she told him.

The Robots gazed on the penned in humans.

one of them, with a red stripe painted across its chest, walked up to the negotiation, Rick gave her the maps.

The machine that walked up, looked to the blonde, then at him.

Its right arm transformed from a gun barrel, to a sharpened-clawed hand, and it reached out-faster than he could dodge, and when it pulled back, it showed him his heart, right before he died.

The killer robots began opening the holding pens, as other strange humans began to appear from the landing zone.

"Rejoice." a tall man, with a twin brother close by, announced, standing on the wreckage of Emerson's battlemaster, "Rejoice I say! for your world has been liberated! In the name of god, it is your fate to be uplifted and liberated, slaves no longer, prisoners no more!"

an asiatic woman approached the blonde, who was looking at the corpse of Rick Emerson with disgust.

"We found Tyllium on the moon, there are high-grade metals in the ruins, did you find the information?"

the Blonde smiled as if she did not have a man's lifeblood covering her from chin to hips, ruining her white dress, "yes, we have all the navigational data necessary to reach Kowloon, and a list of acceptable targets to bolster our technology and knowledge of the rest of humanity..." she looked at the stunned, confused, and in many cases weepingly grateful faces of the people from the pens.  "And we have the basis for allies in a system rich in raw material."

"I'm not sure allying with human factions is a good plan, Six."  the Asiatic woman said.

"Our enemies are multiplying as we speak, Eight, these people have no prejudices against us, or our kind, they are..." she looked again, as a woman embraced a centurion, weeping and kissing the hard metal war machine.  "...grateful. we can use that to build a powerbase, to prove our way is right, and One's way is wrong.  The Dorals were foolish to refuse to join us, we will make them see."

"So say we all." Two said, walking back over, "We do need to get this organized, find food for our new...subjects? allies? people?"

"There is much work to be done.  we can't expand without production, or cooperation."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #161 on: 15 December 2019, 04:08:02 »
New Circe shipyard...

"...warships were taken out by fighters for a reason-most of the designs from the Star League counted on escorting units to protect them from fighter attack."  Nicole strode along a pressurized walkway overlooking the maintenance docks.  "we can do better."

She wasn't a Rear Admiral yet, the service wasn't, in her opinion, large enough to have room for one, and she'd already lobbied to put a stop to rank inflation within the Wolverine fleet.  the bruises on her ribs and face were testimony to how vigorously some of the established leadership wanted to maintain what she considered a "lyran organizational disease".  Colonel Ebon may recover from the beating she gave him, but his pride probably wouldn't-the man was almost entirely unused to null-gee boxing, a sport common among Belt communities throughout human space.

but the injuries still ached, especially in artificial gravity.

she stopped, looking out over the mothball fleet.

"Plenty of raw material." she said after a while.  "your fleet is so large you can't man it, and you need active ships in service-converting dropships to use Colonial drives is clever, but it's ridiculously short-term.  New Circe needs gunships, not dreadnoughts-not yet anyway, and by the time you do, those outside there? are going to be too old to be useful. I intend to recommend to the CINCNAV that we strip down the ships from the second exodus fleet, except for one flag vessel, and use the raw materials to construct ships more in line with projected needs for defense, and eventually, offense.  this will get the shipyards going full-bore, and fund development of New Circe's asteroid fields and other attendant industries.  Your fleet is awesome by modern standards, but it's also expensive, mostly idle, and currently unworkable.  If you intend to survive any sort of long-term conflict, then the infrastructure needs to be in place and the fleet needs to be experienced."

"But Captain Minh, we have a strong ground arm-"

"nobody ever successfully won a ground battle when they can't land." Nicole stated, "no pirate has ever successfully raided a world he couldn't land on and leave and nobody's ever conquered a world without being able to get boots to ground.  best place to stop that, is at least one AU away from the planet.  Alicia Li bled the Jade Falcons down to half strength before they even made landfall on Kowloon, and while Lizzie killed their Congress with a couple nuclear missiles from a submarine, it was the air-cover from out-system that pinned that bastard in place over the western ocean so that she had the shot."

she turned to her superior in grade, "Achieve victory, then pursue battle.  have a viable game plan that can flex, and get the most flex you can out of it.  New Circe needs experienced ship commanders, crew, and a system in place to breed more, it also needs a navy that it can afford to deploy, because fighting an attacker in HIS territory is always superior to fighting him in yours."

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37922
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #162 on: 15 December 2019, 05:11:19 »
Hmmm... looks like the Arluna flu might become the Kowloon flu at this rate...

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4312
  • За родину и свободу!
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #163 on: 15 December 2019, 06:38:35 »
  You’re making a lot of sense, Nikki, but the ‘build for victory’ plan also requires manpower, and IIRC NC’s total population is less than two million.  Even at the Wolvies’ (disturbing!) degree of societal militancy, you’re just not going to have the warm bodies to crew and support more than... what, one gunboat Squadron?  Maybe two, at a stretch?  I don’t have first-hand knowledge of these kinds of nuts-and-bolts, but AFAICT, if the gunboat force gets beyond the half-division mark, there just won’t be enough personnel — especially competent ones — to staff them all and keep the supporting industry and infrastructure running properly.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7956
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #164 on: 15 December 2019, 07:19:23 »
  You’re making a lot of sense, Nikki, but the ‘build for victory’ plan also requires manpower, and IIRC NC’s total population is less than two million.  Even at the Wolvies’ (disturbing!) degree of societal militancy, you’re just not going to have the warm bodies to crew and support more than... what, one gunboat Squadron?  Maybe two, at a stretch?  I don’t have first-hand knowledge of these kinds of nuts-and-bolts, but AFAICT, if the gunboat force gets beyond the half-division mark, there just won’t be enough personnel — especially competent ones — to staff them all and keep the supporting industry and infrastructure running properly.

They have access to a Caspar, so they might already have a head start on developing automated technologies that will stretch their manpower considerably. Maybe not fully unmanned ships, given local cultural norms, but perhaps ones that could run with very small crews, not to mention the civilian side of things, where you can replace the unskilled labor with machines.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Hotpoint

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 329
  • Rumours of annihilation are grossly exaggerated
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #165 on: 15 December 2019, 08:13:49 »
They have access to a Caspar, so they might already have a head start on developing automated technologies that will stretch their manpower considerably. Maybe not fully unmanned ships, given local cultural norms, but perhaps ones that could run with very small crews, not to mention the civilian side of things, where you can replace the unskilled labor with machines.

They already had an edge in ship automation long before Nike showed up. In BT canon the Cargoking prototype went missing in Kesai System in 2825. Guess who else was in Kesai in 2825 searching for supplies in the old SLDF depots there as they headed through the Inner Sphere?

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargoking

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kesai
"A dread fear rests deep in the heart of Clan Coyote that one day a lawyer will arrive on Tamaron talking about intellectual property rights, the Mercury II and the Coyotl omnimech and this will herald the end of the Clan as the Not-Named sue their asses into bankruptcy for patent infringement" - The True History of the Clans (Dark Caste Press: 3050)

Hunted Tribes - Hotpoint's Battlestar/Battletech Crossover Series


Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #166 on: 15 December 2019, 08:15:24 »
  You’re making a lot of sense, Nikki, but the ‘build for victory’ plan also requires manpower, and IIRC NC’s total population is less than two million.  Even at the Wolvies’ (disturbing!) degree of societal militancy, you’re just not going to have the warm bodies to crew and support more than... what, one gunboat Squadron?  Maybe two, at a stretch?  I don’t have first-hand knowledge of these kinds of nuts-and-bolts, but AFAICT, if the gunboat force gets beyond the half-division mark, there just won’t be enough personnel — especially competent ones — to staff them all and keep the supporting industry and infrastructure running properly.

what she's looking at, is that their manpower is concentrated far too much on only a couple of hulls they can't adequately support as it is.  (manning a Mckenna is a lot of bodies, add in the other warships from the Bremerton cache..?)  Basically she's saying pretty much exactly what you're saying-they're trying to base on ships they can't actually afford to crew or run, so 'building down' to a half squadron of gunboats is actually more reasonable than, say, trying to operate the Zug plus an adequate escort force.

Basically, what Nicole is seeing, is a fine example of the Dreadnought races of south america-a Naval situation where they've got a prestige level fleet, but really have about  a riverine/littoral level of manpower, and little to no real chance of handling serious damage or incident, but with the added problem that that fleet of "Dreadnought" (singular) can't adequately handle basic patrol duties or core training exercises in peacetime, much less live combat duty against any of the probable opponents.

By pushing for dismantling most of the old SLDF warships in storage, and pushing for new construction of smaller ships, there's the gains to be had in terms of strategic posture (fleet recon, scouting, patrol and picket duties can actually be conducted), reduced vulnerability on a strategic scale (one broken drive controller doesn't leave you without a fleet, one ship hitting a mine is less costly, and so on), and it gets more officers command and deployment experience simultaneously with more nav officers getting live navigation experience, leading to better fleet operations and cohesion.

Remember, the Sampan II's they used against the Word of Blake had a total crew complement including marines of around 50 people, and those were also the back bone of the Quarantine until the IIIs came on line post-war.  For the material cost of a single McKenna class or Cameron, you can produce 4-12 Sampan II's, or 2-6 Sampan III's.  While they're not as outright impressive as a Mckenna or Cameron, they're cheaper to build, can be built with smaller/less developed facilities, and are more 'manpower efficient' in terms of territorial coverage.  The only place they aren't more efficient, is in pre-1st succession wars era battle lines-which nobody's in shape to do right now anyway-even the Cylons' capital ships aren't that impressive in terms of raw firepower, and if they keep the pair of Battlestars updated, (which are also more manpower efficient, smaller ships)...

Nicole's pushing for developing the "frigate navy" the Wolverines can afford as opposed to the "Capital Navy" that they can't.

which will break down to about half a squadron to start, but with Iron Wombs and Sibkos, along with a vigorous rotation schedule, can actually handle growing until it's possible to actually afford to consider deploying Capital warships-but by then, they'll also have the infrastructure to build and maintain them using lessons-learned, which they don't right now.  Right now, what they have is a big collection of valuable materials they aren't in a position to actually employ, which is the core of her point.  The system needs enough navy to fight off attackers (or make attacking it costly) and that, as much as anything else, is a battle of positioning that you can't win with a single warship (or even three of them).

the nice part is, most of the materials needed are already in a refined form, but it means sacrificing idle warship hulls to build what amounts to a large number of small corvettes. (by 'large' I simply mean more than one here.)

This allows them to develop training in fleet operations and strategies in real-time, as opposed to reading books about it, while also developing the industrial base and logistics network necessary to keep a fleet 'at sea' for extended durations, which is kinda necessary for any star system that doesn't have a star-spanning nation doing it for them.

The cases she's working from include both warship engagements during the Steiner/Davion family feud, and Comstar's failure in Case White-both situations reflected different problems (what she considers problems).  The Fedcom civil war's problems were a matter of overinvestment in hulls that were then used incorrectly and lost due to ignorance on the operator's part.  The Case White scenario was a situation of one side adapting their doctrines to lessons from the past, and the other (losing in the Case White scenario) clinging to doctrines that proved false during the 1st succession war.

in particular, SLDF doctrines that proved false.  in HER mind, there's no 'do over' possible, nobody is going to come pick up the slack, and most of the old SLN ships were built without systems that proved critical assets (or deficiencies) during the Jihad and the few modern naval engagements prior-tht is, assets like point defenses (which the Galactica and Pegasus have in spades) and the ability to rapidly configure and adjust formations (something the KCG did extraordinarily well due to not overinvesting in a small number of hulls.)

further, by pushing what she's pushing, it forces efficiencies into being in terms of logistics; instead of servicing a dozen different hulls from different manufacturers (none of whom are operating anymore), they have a 'standard type' from which to develop incremental improvements as capability (logstical slack) and experience dictate. as the population grows, so too does the navy, after a certain point, it becomes reasonable to start building Destroyers and Frigates again-but that's after the population breaks about 100 million.

by that point, said frigates and destroyers will likely be lightyears ahead of navies that didn't have the kind of advance warning they did on what technologies might be of use.

(and by that time, the SLDF in exile will be able to once again afford Admirals with more than one star, by her lights.)

wait until she starts arguing with them about "Patrol Radius" and "Deployment depth/duration" and arguing that "security through obscurity stops being useful the minute someone keys the mic on a two-way radio."

one of Nicole's mantras is straight out of Liz Ngo's 'book' on building oversized, illegal militias.  "If you can't build it, you can't afford to lose it, if you can't afford to lose it, you can't deploy it."

thus why the Kowloon GFM/MTM formations were built out of equipment built on Kowloon exclusively-which also made it easier to provide supplies and spares for, manage improvements to, simplify training on...  which in turn made fighter crews faster on turnaround, tank crews more confident in their gear functioning, and so on.

Nicole is pushing a very spartan, stripped down model for how the navy is to function, and a big part of that, is that every capital ship they currently have is an irreplaceable resource, which makes the naval arm less deployable.

(and also limits the navy's ability to replace personnel losses even more than the population problem already does.  Experience in ship command is far different from ground forces, the needs, pressures and limitations are far different from commanding a unit of 'mechs, tanks or infantry.  More ships deployable means more seasoned ship commanders are available both to replace losses, and to teach/train/mentor the next generation.)

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Hotpoint

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 329
  • Rumours of annihilation are grossly exaggerated
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #167 on: 15 December 2019, 08:48:31 »
It's worth noting that the SLDF in Exile has already shifted quite a lot in doctrine from the old Star League Navy anyway though. They dismounted some of the HNPPC's and Naval Lasers from Zug and Bismark to mount on Galactica and Pegasus and in return received hundreds of Colonial Point-Defence cannons from the Battlestars.

They're also already building the Olympian Class ships (basically a scaled-up Titan dropship with a Colonial Jumpdrive, and multiple banks of LRPPC's, MPL's and LBX-UAC's for dealing with massed Raider attacks).

The notion is basically keep the battleships at home and when you run into heavy opposition Far-Jump the big boys in. Thanks to conscription and the reserves they have a lot more trained manpower than you'd expect for a population their size so they can keep the things running as long they don't have to continuously.

Jumpfighters (a Kirghiz with the FTL from a Raptor) are the other factor of course.

Oh, one bit of New Circe demographic trivia. Thanks to a 3.5% annual population growth rate, approximately half the population is aged twenty or under, so there are always plenty of draftees! Thanks to conscription and the reserves (you're liable to be called back to the colours until you're are at least 40) they have a lot more trained manpower than you'd expect for a population their size so they can keep the capital ships running as long they don't have to deploy them continuously.
« Last Edit: 15 December 2019, 08:56:32 by Hotpoint »
"A dread fear rests deep in the heart of Clan Coyote that one day a lawyer will arrive on Tamaron talking about intellectual property rights, the Mercury II and the Coyotl omnimech and this will herald the end of the Clan as the Not-Named sue their asses into bankruptcy for patent infringement" - The True History of the Clans (Dark Caste Press: 3050)

Hunted Tribes - Hotpoint's Battlestar/Battletech Crossover Series


Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #168 on: 15 December 2019, 09:01:55 »
Protector Vaun's office, New Circe...

The requests, requisitions, and protests were piling up.

"When does the woman sleep?" the Lord Protector complained, gesturing to a stack of documents penned by the hand of one "Nicole Minh, Commander, Kowloon Coast Guard Militia seconded to SLDF support."

President Laura Roslin and Admiral William Adama were here today, as well as various functionaries from both the civilian government, and the Colonial City-State.

Adama finished parsing a translated document.  "It's good staff work." he commented, "clean, though I'm not sure about her recommendations on automation."

"Those weren't hers, those came from Bennett." Vaun said casually.

"it's a viable plan." Adama stated, "Expensive on the outset, her listings of required facilities would have given Adar a heart-attack, and Admiral Cain would probably have had a stroke over the dismantling plans if this were the Colonial fleet..."

"But?" Vaun looked up, eyebrow raised.

"it's reasonable based on population, the patrol radius is conservative." Adama stated, "but it fits what we can both actually manage in terms of trained manpower...and your manpower projections over the next ten years." he looked to Roslin.

"Without hurting the civil economy." Roslin said, "Some of this might even boost ours.  Some of the Quorum might balk at some of her requests here, but I can probably bend some arms, and I suspect Tom Zarek could be placated with a few concessions to support our participation in the industrial and manufacturing side."

"it helps that she considers the Galactica and Pegasus to be 'adequate to needs after a refit'." Adama stated, "we're not going to lose as many hulls as you are."

"She kept the Zughoffer Weir on the rolls at least." Colonel Bennett said sadly, "but we're supposed to lose both Camerons over the next five years to reprocessing."

"We can't man them.  she starts her proposed cuts on the largest ships, and works her way down the list."  Vaun pointed out, "Why did she recommend keeping the zug again?"

"Minh feels that the fleet needs a Flag vessel, and she considers it to be the easiest one to fit what she terms 'proper point defenses'.  her deployment plan for the flagship keeps it in-system with a ready-crew, as the over-all command vessel, basically a self-propelled space station, her suggested refits make it more like a giant tender for fighters and corvettes, but with expanded command and control facilities taken from the ships headed for scrapping."

"There are going to be fights over this." Vaun said quietly, "Both in the services, and among the civilian government-those ships are our history."

"I..I told her that." Bennett said, "you're not seriously considering this, are you?"

the Protector stood and clasped her hands behind her back, looking out the windows of her office.  "I am." she said, "Minh's logic is sound, while the arguments against it are...emotional. we've learned more in the last nine months about naval warfare in the present than I think we have been able to fully digest, but her descriptions of engagements in that war with the damn phone company have the stinking ring of truth, while the data the SLS Nike has shared seems to support her conclusions.  IF the Clans of Kerensky-" she spat into a potted plant, "-ever DO find us, we can't afford to be weak, or inexperienced, or hobbled by doctrines that don't work." she turned, "EVEN if it means we dismantle and reprocess precious historical artifacts that are irreplaceable. according to Minh's records, Nicky's descendants have been retrofitting and maintaining fleets we can't hope to man for another ten generations, but they're also only doing incremental improvements, mostly following old doctrines, they lose a lot of ships during Bulldog and Serpent, not including the loss of a McKenna class due to a fighter pilot over Rassalhague.  we need to be better than them if we're going to survive facing them again."

"oppnå seier, og deretter forfølge kampen..." she muttered in old norwegian.

"Achieve victory, then pursue battle?" Bennett translated for the Colonials.

"it's a good doctrine." Adama said, "if you can do it."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #169 on: 15 December 2019, 09:11:04 »
It's worth noting that the SLDF in Exile has already shifted quite a lot in doctrine from the old Star League Navy anyway though. They dismounted some of the HNPPC's and Naval Lasers from Zug and Bismark to mount on Galactica and Pegasus and in return received hundreds of Colonial Point-Defence cannons from the Battlestars.

They're also already building the Olympian Class ships (basically a scaled-up Titan dropship with a Colonial Jumpdrive, and multiple banks of LRPPC's, MPL's and LBX-UAC's for dealing with massed Raider attacks).

The notion is basically keep the battleships at home and when you run into heavy opposition Far-Jump the big boys in. Thanks to conscription and the reserves they have a lot more trained manpower than you'd expect for a population their size so they can keep the things running as long they don't have to continuously.

Jumpfighters (a Kirghiz with the FTL from a Raptor) are the other factor of course.

Oh, one bit of New Circe demographic trivia. Thanks to a 3.5% annual population growth rate, approximately half the population is aged twenty or under, so there are always plenty of draftees! Thanks to conscription and the reserves (you're liable to be called back to the colours until you're are at least 40) they have a lot more trained manpower than you'd expect for a population their size so they can keep the capital ships running as long they don't have to deploy them continuously.

gotta remember the naval tradition with their 'new officers' though;  the KCG has been on continuous deployment since 3066 or thereabouts-pretty close to 24 years of high intensity deployment doctrine all told, and a string of some of the nastier conflicts in human history.  THAT is the doctrinal structure she's introducing the folks on New Circe to; a Navy built around constant deployment, professional officers and enlisted, whom are largely NOT draftees because a conscript service tends to be less effective in the long term.  a very large portion of her planning expertise is in bolstering the Olympia class's production run, and reducing the reliance on ships and types nobody has the resources to build or repair, until the infrastructure is in place to build, man, and maintain them continuously (or nearly continuously).

I foresee a LOT of her suggestions being vetoed, however-because of sentiment, or other arguments (even RATIONAL arguments).  her 'way' is the way of a nation under constant threat, under constant siege, and under constant pressure.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37922
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #170 on: 15 December 2019, 10:00:42 »
It strikes me that the re-processing old hulls strategy overlooks building up mining and smelting capacity...

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #171 on: 15 December 2019, 10:35:06 »
SLDF Oversight hearing, 11 February, 3048...

Nicole Minh stood before the Oversight committee on budget and readiness, with a pair of whiteboards, a holostage, and a stack of marking tools.

"You certainly have brought enough props." one of the politicians noted.

"bear with me, madame chairman.  This..." she brought up a chart, "Is the production capacity of the New Circe Naval Shipyard as of this year.  this is a breakdown of the production needed to handle the loss of any single capital ship of Frigate to Cruiser size, using that production capacity, and this, is the breakdown of equivalent losses of ships of equal mass, based on a class-by-class comparison from the Blakist Jihad.  The column on page four of your hand-outs breaks that down based on whether said ship was serving in Comstar, Word of Blake, or Clan navies.  Booklet Four details to the best of our knowledge how those losses occurred, and from that, we have a projection of what percentage of the current and future combat power of the SLDF in Exile can be lost without the ability to replace it, using the present model."

"Just like a stereotypical Lyran to open with the budget."

"My budget includes manpower." Nicole stated, "manpower losses are the crippling factor.  You don't have enough commanders with significant deployment experience, your radius of action is limited by Tyllium supplies on the new Olympic class, and hardware aging on your mothball vessels, in addition to having too few you can have active and running at any given time, so your officer pool is...restricted. even with the service requirement, you've got a navy built for short sprints when all the data since the first succession war shows it's more of a marathon if you want to survive."

"What do you consider 'significant deployment experience?" 

"nine months to two years on patrol station in peacetime, that is, as we put it back home, 'at sea'." she stated, "in your typical five year draftee commitment, given that your forces are conscripted, at least seventy percent of non-basic-training duty should be on deployment, with a turnaround upon return of three months or less for an average sized vessel, during peacetime, this deployment time includes practice in both solo, and fleet operations, mapping of nearby systems, customs interdiction, and a healthy dose of antipiracy work, as well as convoy escort and a border security operation along a spherical front at minimum sixty light years radius. more really isn't possible with current or projected Tyllium production and strategic reserves."

"Nine months in space??" an older man scoffed, "That's practically begging for a mutiny or worse!"

"Necessary, in, peactime, sir." she said, "In wartime, you must be able to support ships on deployment for much, much longer, unless you want to constantly be hoping the enemy doesn't just show up while you're comfortably ignorant.  Peactime deployments would include placement and maintenance of remote sensor arrays and early warning systems, as well as supporting mineral extraction and refining efforts if and where possible. at present, New Circe is at war with the Cylon imperium, a group we have spotty information on at best.  This situation is neither ideal, nor rationally acceptable. we don't even know where they are."

"you're saying we are at war?"

"They're at war with you, therefore you're at war." Nicole stated, "Making the mistake of assuming they're NOT planning to counter our advantages is raw stupidity on the level of Alessandro Steiner's concentrated weakness strategem, or Nondi Steiner's intense refusal to acknowledge and deal with the outbreaks in what would later be termed the Quarantine zone around Arluna.  THAT little bit of brilliance cost the lives of eleven billion people and turned over a dozen worlds into planet-size graveyards.  Unless or until this body can force a peace, it must be assumed that the clock is running down on a counter-attack, and frankly, sir, you're not ready.  Your recruits are talented, they accept their training with an admirable enthusiasm, but the best trained spacer is still a nugget until he's spent at least a year in the black, and not even a journeyman until he's spent at least four years without home soil under his boots. we demonstrated that in the defense of Kowloon against the very well equipped, very well trained, completely nugget forces of both Clan Jade Falcon, and the Word of Blake.  Simulations and table exercises do not teach as well as hands-on experience.  having a quick reaction force of heavies is good-until you jump them into situation 'alpha' while the enemy's main attack is coming on 'bravo' vector..." she brought up a holoimage showing exactly what she was describing, the battle for Galatea in the 3070s.

"Operationally, the SLDF Navy needs intelligence gathering ships, scouts, pickets, and patrol vessels, and they need to be well outside the jump limit of the New Circe system, for sustained periods of time, and we can't do that with the mothball ships and your current manpower."

"Your reports to the Lord Protector also mention your projected loss estimates."

"They do." she nodded, "we can't replace any ship over 250,000 tons in less than five years with the present facilities, using current designs.  this is fine, if you don't have an enemy whose production capacity isn't limited by the birthrate...but..."

she waited.

"But the Cylons aren't limited by human birthrates, and we don't know what their manufacturing and innovation capacities actually are?" a younger representative asked hesitantly.

"correct." Nicole said, "We have no idea how many basestars they can replace, at what rate, or how many they can scramble from reserves with full complements.  They also use nuclear ordnance, we're fortunate in that their 'raiders' are lightly protected and easily knocked out-but while inferior, they aren't ineffective, and they can make more of them, faster than we can make fighters to counter them, they don't have to rely on human scale training times, don't have to limit to human endurance requirements...we don't even know where their fleet, or fleets, are."

"and the Clans?"

"We know where they are." Nicole stated, "We even know roughly how many forces and how well they can replace losses.  and how thoroughly outnumbered we are if they should happen to deviate and come looking this-a-way.  Security through obscurity ends the second someone keys a microphone anywhere near where the enemy is looking.  The Naval arm, at present, is sufficient to deflect ONE concentrated attack, by a peer force. After that, losses and replacement times mean that as presently constructed, the Naval Arm will not be sufficient. this can be changed, I'm advocating that it must be changed. and sooner rather than later."



"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #172 on: 15 December 2019, 10:42:23 »
It strikes me that the re-processing old hulls strategy overlooks building up mining and smelting capacity...

actually, it builds up smelting capacities first, while giving lead-time for prospecting and mining efforts to catch up.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37922
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #173 on: 15 December 2019, 10:57:59 »
Point on smelting, but mining takes time too, especially with the competition for manpower willing to be in space for long durations...

Hotpoint

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 329
  • Rumours of annihilation are grossly exaggerated
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #174 on: 15 December 2019, 11:19:24 »
Of the big capital ships both the McKenna Zughoffer Weir and Texas Bismark can carry a decent quantity of aerospace fighters ( 50/40 respectively) and small craft (16/16) so they are adaptable enough to keep operational, if not deployed methinks. Factor in that they can both bring six dropships along for added fighter-support (Titans and/or Olympians), that's a useful capability as well.

One problem with a Colonial FTL is that it can't Far-Jump (you need a modified K-F Core and L-F batteries) so it's handy to have a means to carry your shorter-ranged but tactically very useful Jump-Dropships along on.

Zug and Bismark as strategic Carrier-Carriers ;)

The Black Lion Rickenbacker should be mothballed though given that it's not needed to support lengthy expeditions back to the Inner Sphere any more with the era of Far-Jumping approaching.

The modified Riga/York Class Yukon is quite a bit smaller than the ships above but can still carry 50 aerospace fighters itself (plus 3 small craft) so I'd think of that as a definite keeper. This is especially true when you consider it only needs 240 crew which is less than a third of the Zug for the same number of fighters.

Say two operational battlegroups, one based around Yukon, one around Nike, with Olympians making up the numbers.

Zug and Bismark kept at home, mostly crewed by draftees and reservists not regulars, but ready to go.




In a humorous aside you could even carry a Viper on top of a Kirghiz, with that being carried by an Olympian and the Olympian carried by the McKenna.

Making Zughoffer Weir a Carrier-Carrier-Carrier.

Ba dum tish  ;D
"A dread fear rests deep in the heart of Clan Coyote that one day a lawyer will arrive on Tamaron talking about intellectual property rights, the Mercury II and the Coyotl omnimech and this will herald the end of the Clan as the Not-Named sue their asses into bankruptcy for patent infringement" - The True History of the Clans (Dark Caste Press: 3050)

Hunted Tribes - Hotpoint's Battlestar/Battletech Crossover Series


Nikas_Zekeval

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1631
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #175 on: 15 December 2019, 11:37:12 »
actually, it builds up smelting capacities first, while giving lead-time for prospecting and mining efforts to catch up.

Plus capacity is more than a shipyard.  It is all the supporting industry such as the manufacture of capital grade weapons, or multi-Gee drives for ships massing several hundred thousands of tons, or even the high ten-k tons.  The later was a major delay for the FedCom Fox class frigates.

Sounds like Minh is looking to scrap those hulls not just for raw metals, but major systems that also have inadequately robust local industry for replacing wartime losses, much less serious expansion of NC's hull numbers.
« Last Edit: 15 December 2019, 16:16:45 by Nikas_Zekeval »

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10764
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #176 on: 15 December 2019, 11:50:42 »
Plus capacity is more than a shipyard.  It is all the supporting industry such as the manufacture of capital grade weapons, or multi-Gee drives for ships massing several hundred thousands of tons, or even the high ten-k tons.  The later was a major delay for the FedCom Fox class frigates.

Sounds like Minh is looking to scrap those hulls not just for raw metals, but major systems that are also inadequately robust for replacing wartime losses, much less serious expansion of NC's hull numbers.
I can only wish i'd put it as succinctly.


Of the big capital ships both the McKenna Zughoffer Weir and Texas Bismark can carry a decent quantity of aerospace fighters ( 50/40 respectively) and small craft (16/16) so they are adaptable enough to keep operational, if not deployed methinks. Factor in that they can both bring six dropships along for added fighter-support (Titans and/or Olympians), that's a useful capability as well.

One problem with a Colonial FTL is that it can't Far-Jump (you need a modified K-F Core and L-F batteries) so it's handy to have a means to carry your shorter-ranged but tactically very useful Jump-Dropships along on.

Zug and Bismark as strategic Carrier-Carriers ;)

The Black Lion Rickenbacker should be mothballed though given that it's not needed to support lengthy expeditions back to the Inner Sphere any more with the era of Far-Jumping approaching.

The modified Riga/York Class Yukon is quite a bit smaller than the ships above but can still carry 50 aerospace fighters itself (plus 3 small craft) so I'd think of that as a definite keeper. This is especially true when you consider it only needs 240 crew which is less than a third of the Zug for the same number of fighters.

Say two operational battlegroups, one based around Yukon, one around Nike, with Olympians making up the numbers.

Zug and Bismark kept at home, mostly crewed by draftees and reservists not regulars, but ready to go.




In a humorous aside you could even carry a Viper on top of a Kirghiz, with that being carried by an Olympian and the Olympian carried by the McKenna.

Making Zughoffer Weir a Carrier-Carrier-Carrier.

Ba dum tish  ;D

It's not a given that Nicole's propsal will be acceptable to the government, partly for the reasons you outline above.  Those designs are all very useful. 

but they're not replaceable.  The core of her argument boils down to "If you can't build it, you can't afford to lose it, and if you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to deploy it."

Her perspective is rooted in experiencing decades of high-intensity war, much of it attritional, and looking not with optimism that superior skills and tech can win the day, but rather the pessimism of 'but your forces can't afford to lose this asset, which is likely to happen because of Mr. Murphy'.

she witnessed the outright destruction of fleets of ships due to one mistake or another, the wasting of ships that never got replaced due to poor choices in leadership, and naval engagements where the odds went out the window and the safely predictable outcome did not happen-but the casualties did, and the consequences resulted in long-term defeat even for short-term victories due to which key asset had to be lost or sacrificed.

In her mind, until Clan Wolverine can build and crew a series of ships, individual ships of extraordinary power are a liability due to their inability to be replaced.  given the collective experience of the 1st and 2nd Succession wars, the loss of technology throughout the Inner Sphere, and the comparative brittleness of fleets that had one dreadnought they could not replace (after the loss of Alarion and the seiges at Galax, nobody was making new Mjolnirs or Avalons, even when those were desperately needed).

Shes' also looking at what it will take to get to the point that the Clan can not only build, but crew, ships of that class and size, and what it will take to jump-start the process.  Her plan is focused on a short term cost that stings hard enough to make the long term benefit valued, having seen how little value the LAAF held for the Coast Guards after the Republic treaty.

her endgame is a qualitatively better fleet, better prepared, better trained, with better doctrine.  Her standard of what is 'better' is likely not the same as Vaun's, or Bennett's, or even Adama's ideas, but hers are based on a horrifying continuous grinding lifetime of war which only Adama and the Colonials have anything remotely equivalent to in living memory.

My own suppositions (and correct me if I'm off-base here) but the New Circe government will likely veto entirely the scrapping plan, but approve the construction of the infrastructure and many of her proposed changes to deployment and training using the new ship designs-because that LATTER part makes strategic and tactical sense to them, though there will still be fights over deployment durations and 'radius of action' estimates.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37922
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #177 on: 15 December 2019, 12:07:18 »
Heh... I can just see them deciding to turn one of the relics into a museum ship just in time for a full on assault by... oh, wait...  ^-^

mikecj

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3275
  • Veteran of Galahad 3028
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #178 on: 15 December 2019, 14:45:41 »
So what do you call bigger Sampans
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37922
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #179 on: 15 December 2019, 15:50:53 »
Perhaps "Pinas"?