Warship Race Redux

[UnLimiTeD]

I dont know if the CC will have its class 4 yard space open or not, because I dont know yet whats going to happen between T2 and T3.

Right. I forgot they'd first have to build the yard before they can rent it out. Well, nevermind then.
And I sadly can't rent out production of the new combat ship, as that includes new equipment.
Kind of :(, actually - I wanted to bring the first ship online early and then immediately refit them next turn as new tech became available.  ;D
Also, can someone explain the attached picture from the map?

[marcussmythe]

Right. I forgot they'd first have to build the yard before they can rent it out. Well, nevermind then.
And I sadly can't rent out production of the new combat ship, as that includes new equipment.
Kind of :(, actually - I wanted to bring the first ship online early and then immediately refit them next turn as new tech became available.  ;D
Also, can someone explain the attached picture from the map?

The yards are built.  I just dont know if theyll want their own ships in them next turn.  The reason they didnt build in the this turn is no money.

And I think that picture means ‘starting in 2789, the name changed to ‘Bob’.  And do you blame them?

[UnLimiTeD]

 :D ;D Yes, yes I do.
So we can immediately build ships in the yards we upgrade in that same turn? 

[marcussmythe]

:D ;D Yes, yes I do.
So we can immediately build ships in the yards we upgrade in that same turn?

Yes.  Similarly, newly built ships can fight, newly researched technologies are useable, etc.  You can upgrade a yard and then have that count for lowering the costs of other yard upgrades in the same turn.  Everything is pretty much going into effect all at once, for simplicities sake.

[UnLimiTeD]

Ah, ok, then I can actually create the prototype this turn.
And I could have ordered fleet tenders from the CC.
Sorry, CC, but now I ran out of budget already. Shipyard expansion and research already ate half of it.

Edit: I have tentatively finalized my post. The new ship somehow ended up with more space than envisioned, and I have no idea where it came from. For now, it just has a bit of extra cargo, but it's meant as a prototype. Who knows, it may actually have a glaring weakness. Like no ammo for its missiles *cough*.

[marcussmythe]

Its always about tradeoffs! 

The CCs plan, good or otherwise, is to invest in yards now, pick up the cheap/popular techs later, and then build heavily.  As long ad their extant fleet, 18 vessels of collective 30 size, stays competitive with their neighbors, theyll probably stick with it, using the large yards to encourage civilian building and where possible to defeay production cost by leasing space.

The THN is trying to ‘regularize’ their force around fewer classes that can fill multiple roles, trying to keep a powerful combat force that can also cover their needs under what is (to them) a tight budget.

[truetanker]

Unlimited~

Dunklewälderdunklerflüssenschattenwelt translates to dark forests dark rivers shadow world.

Or Bob for short, really means a very dark forested and heavily shadowed world with dark rivers...

Hope that helps!

TT

[truetanker]

How would I go about hiring Pirates / Mercenaries to distract others, if say a Jolly Roger escapade?

Just asking for future references...

TT

[UnLimiTeD]

Oh, I can read german just fine. It's just such a wonderfully wacky name, why would someone change it to "Bob"?

I think I'll try to get my next turn done a bit quicker, though, had the feeling people were waiting for me.  xp
Btw, guess we won't use large repair bays?
I think I had the discussion in the past with Alsadius as well, not quite sure anymore what the result was. I think we considered making the Facilities ignore cost multipliers?

[kindalas]

Regarding the costs of KF cores.

Regarding the costs of Primitive cores.

Since we have discounted dropshuttle bays.

Can we discount the primitive cores from the RAW of 5 (same as compact cores) down to something more reasonable.

Say to (40-RangeLY)/10 or in English a multiplier of 1 for 30ly of range. Scaling to 2.5 for 15 ly in range.

And I really want to argue for changing the support system cost formula but I think that would unravel a can of worms regarding warship costs, but only because every warship just costs 2 Billion more for no reason.

I don't really want to invest in primitive cores but I like them for the flavor they represent.

[marcussmythe]

I think we need to leave core costs alone, at least for extant vessels.  Without the ‘extra hull premium’ there is no tradeoff between large and small hulls.. 4x250kt costs as much as 1x1MT, but are far more flexible, arguably more resilient (4x as many criticals to cripple, 4x as much IS to kill).  So its all corvettes.  As it is, we have hard choices between paying for yards to build the big ships that carry more stuff per C-Bill, as opposed to the swarm (laid out above).

Im not opposed to changing the costs for Primitive Cores, but Im not highly motivated to make Smegish change the google sheet again for something basically noone would use.  Will wait for others to weigh in.

[kindalas]

I think we need to leave core costs alone, at least for extant vessels.  Without the ‘extra hull premium’ there is no tradeoff between large and small hulls.. 4x250kt costs as much as 1x1MT, but are far more flexible, arguably more resilient (4x as many criticals to cripple, 4x as much IS to kill).  So its all corvettes.  As it is, we have hard choices between paying for yards to build the big ships that carry more stuff per C-Bill, as opposed to the swarm (laid out above).

Im not opposed to changing the costs for Primitive Cores, but Im not highly motivated to make Smegish change the google sheet again for something basically noone would use.  Will wait for others to weigh in.

That's the biggest problem with the primitive cores, there is zero cost incentive to use them right now. Since a compact weighs less and has twice the range.

But maybe I've been reading too much on the fanfiction boards.

[UnLimiTeD]

If it's just the costs, it would not affect the compatibility with "vanilla" Battletech, would it?
In which case, I'd volunteer to do that.
(I'd have done the same for maintenance costs)
If we just go by cost, it's pretty much all autocannons and no collars, anyways. I think that would get rather boring, rather quickly.

The thing with primitive equipment is, it was supposedly in place before the "standard" equipment - we just glossed over it.
As far as I remember, there probably wouldn't be much in the way of fighters now, and IFA is still 140 years off.
In the case of K-F cores, it's kinda sad because they would actually have an interesting mechanic - save money by sapping your own mobility.

[Daryk]

The Taurians would be all over cheaper ships with shorter range cores.  If they cost the same, though...

[kindalas]

I sort of regret bringing it up.

I feel like it is the sort of minutiae that would bog the game down and cause it to stall.

But it is something that I'd bring up during the planning of the next game whenever that is.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Honestly your waiting for me to finish lol...

The Taurians would be all over cheaper ships with shorter range cores.  If they cost the same, though...

This: because the PoR is so small they would definitely go for this. But that needs discussions of course.

EDIT: Finished my turn, once again double checked but if anyone finds anything let me know.

Sorry bout the formatting somethings messed up with my Microsoft Office suite so I had to purge it from my computer and buy a new one. Stimulus check mostly gone and I got it last week :(

[kindalas]

I added all of the Fluff, and doctrine for the LCN is included in the Fluff.

The LCN has embraced boarding actions as their signature move.

That and PPCs.

The Marsden Fighter should bring nightmares to the enemies of the Lyran Commonwealth.

You know once they figure out what makes it special.

I included cargo on it so pilots could nap and eat when on mission.

Well when there are pilots on missions.

[VensersRevenge]

Mine will be up Wednesday at the latest. Finals took more time than I thought. Sorry for the delay, but I shouldn't have any more problems.

[Smegish]

Honestly your waiting for me to finish lol...

This: because the PoR is so small they would definitely go for this. But that needs discussions of course.

EDIT: Finished my turn, once again double checked but if anyone finds anything let me know.

Sorry bout the formatting somethings messed up with my Microsoft Office suite so I had to purge it from my computer and buy a new one. Stimulus check mostly gone and I got it last week :(

Formatting is ok, I do ask that you only show the millions+ figures, (show it as 8.45M rather than 8,450,000.00 for example)
As to the IC speech, great work. Only minor quibble I have is that I would prefer such speeches to be a little earlier in the decade -60/61 perhaps- so that we GMs don't invalidate it with our writeup, or be forced to leave you alone for the first few years to avoid invalidating it. Other than that looks great.

[UnLimiTeD]

Maybe that is his plan.  :D Force you to leave him alone.
Cheeky.  :thumbsup:

[marcussmythe]

Updated CCN with two station designs to spend some of the spare cash they had.

Just now caught the 'Robot Fighter' aspect of the Marsden Fighter from the LC.  Interesting.  Vv Interesting...  I need to look at those rules and figure out what EXACTLY the Smart Robotic Control System can do, how 'smart' and autonomous it actually is.

[UnLimiTeD]

The short version is: not very - but serviceable in aerospace applications because you don't have to navigate terrain.
They could get confused by unusual behaviour or sensor readings until receiving remote orders, and they will fail hard when subjected to Warship ECM - which, at this point in time, no one has developed yet.

[kindalas]

Just don't be stealing my ideas before people learn how sneaky the Lyrans are.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Maybe that is his plan.  :D Force you to leave him alone.
Cheeky.  :thumbsup:

Ya know that never crossed my mind... but now that you mention it ;)

@Smegish: Got it will reformat it after my dinner

[UnLimiTeD]

So that's why he hold the speech in 63. The admiral was having dinner.
Probably the one captain wanted to remind him one of the ships had recently gone missing, but he would have none of it.  ;D

[marcussmythe]

Yeah.  The standard SRCS isnt apparently real bright.  The Advanced version is probably much moreso.

Its hard to get a grip on how ‘smart’ the Caspers really were, because the feel I get is everyone was afraid of them and kept their capabilities on choke chains.

Amusingly, the Casper system RAW is a straight downgrade.  Major cost increase and a 10% Mass Fraction (for the smart version)  consumes ANY advantage In ECM, gunnery, yadda. 

Though if you assume they get C3 effects (so Im told), and slap on the Advanced Tactical System for an additional -1 on Gunnery, yould have a ship that performs at Gunnery 2 plus NC3, as well as being able to burn at max Gs as long as the fuel holds with no crew to suffer.  Hmm.

[kindalas]

Yeah.  The standard SRCS isnt apparently real bright.  The Advanced version is probably much moreso.

Its hard to get a grip on how ‘smart’ the Caspers really were, because the feel I get is everyone was afraid of them and kept their capabilities on choke chains.

Amusingly, the Casper system RAW is a straight downgrade.  Major cost increase and a 10% Mass Fraction (for the smart version)  consumes ANY advantage In ECM, gunnery, yadda. 

Though if you assume they get C3 effects (so Im told), and slap on the Advanced Tactical System for an additional -1 on Gunnery, yould have a ship that performs at Gunnery 2 plus NC3, as well as being able to burn at max Gs as long as the fuel holds with no crew to suffer.  Hmm.

They can also evade for only a +1 to hit.

And they will actually ram a target when overwhelmed.

[marcussmythe]

True.  And only suffering a +1 when evading would let you do further unfair things to the THN games.  Its a blessing there are no ‘pulse’ versions of capital scale weaponry.

Which is an interesting point.  Lasers evolve from standard through pulse/ER, into clanspec, flavors, and then off into things like VSPL, Reenginnered, Improved Heavy, yadda.  (Though the king of the hill is still IMHO the Clanspec ERLL, ERML, and LPulse)

Warship weaponry... never changes.  A few new ones get added.

Probably for the simplest, and not a thing Id change for this game in progress, but it really -ought- to be a thing, yannow?

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, the Caspar system also had actual warship drones. I think they could also theoretically follow remote orders?
So, pretty decent, all things considered. Low maintenance if just lying around, too - no internal atmosphere, no ageing crews, no need for food supplies, no training exercises. 
I think the game is just not focused on naval engagements. You also have silly construction rules, including those ****** cost multipliers (Fasa-nomics), and you also never get naval versions of the new ground weaponry. Plasma, TSEMP...
It's really just a backdrop for the scenario. But then again, in the fluff there's not many warships anyways, so where would those new, more modern weapons come from?
Sides, we do get bracketing, so accuracy bonuses on the weapon would be overdoing it.

[Smegish]

If anyone has warplanes to deal with their neighbors on the chance war happens, feel free to PM them to Marcus or myself. Gives us something to work with and if the plan turns to poo it isn't purely down to Deus ex Machina like it might be if we have to come up with it ourselves.