Author Topic: Warship Race Redux  (Read 91414 times)

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #510 on: 05 May 2020, 10:37:44 »
Well, the thing with droppers is that they are no match for a warship, being unable to mount weapons that can actually harm them.
I suppose once Castle Brians become available, we can use those as "shore batteries". We're not able to just install gun turrets on asteroids, are we?
I just wonder why ammo cost is being calculated in the ship cost and then not added to the total. You're right in that it doesn't really matter, though.

True, Droppers are little match for a full up warship. 
OTOH, Coast Guard Cutters do not fare well against DDGs, nor did their predecessors against BBs.
If you were to install a gun on an asteroid, it would be, essentially, a 'space station' attached to a rock.  It would be a bit sneakier, but less mobile.  Im not sure that there is much advantage in doing so, or much value in differentiating the two.

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #511 on: 05 May 2020, 11:15:12 »
I'm thinking about writing an IC invasion doctrine for the LC, would that be helpful for turn procesing?

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #512 on: 05 May 2020, 11:16:16 »
Cant hurt?   Maybe edit into your turn on the IC posting, so itll be a relatively easy find when were processing turns?

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #513 on: 05 May 2020, 11:31:07 »
OTOH, Coast Guard Cutters do not fare well against DDGs, nor did their predecessors against BBs.
Ah, I meant coastal defense ships, as described f.Ex. here.
Though I can see that those can not effective be build with existing rules.
Didn't the WoB make use of hidden bases on Asteroids? As did, I believe, the TC against the SLDF. Not sure what rules would be used to actually build one, though.
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marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #514 on: 05 May 2020, 11:35:20 »
Ah, I meant coastal defense ships, as described f.Ex. here.
Though I can see that those can not effective be build with existing rules.
Didn't the WoB make use of hidden bases on Asteroids? As did, I believe, the TC against the SLDF. Not sure what rules would be used to actually build one, though.

Oh, that?  Thats just a warship with a really bad cargo fraction, and maybe low thrust.  If SI wasnt coupled to thrust, you could build some mean as all get out 1/2 orbital defense ships.

That said, there wont always be parallels between one thing and another thing.  At least until you hit 200 armor on every facing (presuming AC/20s), the cheapest defense against warships is fighters.  Some slow, overgunned warships, backed up by fighters from the planet, might make a good defense force, and one more agile than stations - though I think Stations+Fighters may be the best solution for defending a single point in space. 

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #515 on: 05 May 2020, 11:42:23 »
I'm thinking about writing an IC invasion doctrine for the LC, would that be helpful for turn procesing?

Also, how did you get 292 systems for the LC?  Did you count every dot on the map in blue space? 

I think we can probably treat systems shown on the map as 'habitable', though at this point many will not be inhabited, at least not by any significant population.  There is no way at this early date the LC has meaningful populations on all 292 worlds.  At the same time, if we were showing EVERY star, those maps would be far more densely populated.

Still, putting a coaling station or at least some lonely people out in the black over every potentially habitable system in LC space has to have some value. 

For the record, you should not worry about or attempt to garrison -every- solar body in LC space.  Napkinmath suggests low hundreds of thousands, at least.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #516 on: 05 May 2020, 11:51:48 »
The inhabited systems even during the hayday of the star league will not even amount to 1% of the existing systems.
Regarding defense, I think stations have the advantage of cost. Sure, they don't move, and are more fragile, but any important system (yards, or political relevance) can be easily covered by 5 of them to defend a planet or yard at the cost of a half corvette.
I actually find it quite interesting that no one so far built ships to counter fighters - but then, no one but the FS has actually researched AC/20s yet.
Oh, and the Artillery Cannons are not in the spreadsheet. Can I just add them, should I need them?
« Last Edit: 05 May 2020, 12:06:11 by UnLimiTeD »
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marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #517 on: 05 May 2020, 12:18:58 »
The inhabited systems even during the hayday of the star league will not even amount to 1% of the existing systems.
Regarding defense, I think stations have the advantage of cost. Sure, they don't move, and are more fragile, but any important system (yards, or political relevance) can be easily covered by 5 of them to defend a planet or yard at the cost of a half corvette.
I actually find it quite interesting that no one so far built ships to counter fighters - but then, no one but the FS has actually researched AC/20s yet.

Depends on what you consider a counter to fighters?  The BEST Counter to a fighter is another fighter.  The FS has their CVs, and several people have designs with alot of fighters on them.

Countering fighters with warship armament is challenging - if you want enough PPCs/ACs/Lasers to deplete a 100 fighter swarm with meaningful speed... thats a LOT of PPCs/Lasers/etc., and remember youll need to buy 4 for every 1 that's going to be in arc.  AAA armament will probably climb.  I reckon, based on my memories of Aerotech, that IN GENERAL it takes about half a fighters total armor in damage to kill it/send it running home, on average.  So call it 80 damage to mission kill a generic 50 ton fighter.

Now, what I think is turning people off to fighters right now is the idea that once you layer on 200 armor on every facing your ship is 'immune' to fighters, and we are watching armor numbers climb right now.  Still, I would consider:

1.)  Older ships, smaller ships, etc. are still in service, and will be for a long time.  Few ships right now have 200 armor on every facing.  And AC/20s are not hard to get.

2.)  Even with 200 armor on every facing, fighters are at least a threat to anything outside the armor belt.  Radar and optical and IR and all those other fun sensors probably dont work through warship armor, and once the sensors are gone, a warship is a large, expensive, hunk of metal.  Weapons and Drives may have SOME vulnerability, though much less.  Now, Im not saying a dozen fighters will blind warships left and right - but you cannot just ignore them.  Consider that Battleships have been sunk by fire that they should, formally, have been immune to.

3.)  If the fighters aren't having to operate alone, but have warship support, they can capitalize on armor facings weakened or depleted by their allied warships fire.  Its relatively easy to hide a damaged facing from the enemy wall - rolling ship is a thing, for reasons, and similarly you can hide nose or tail if your not as concerned about what direction your accelerating.  Fighters swarming over a ship don't care, and will go after the weakest point.  Few ships will reliably have 200 armor on every facing once the shooting starts. 

4.)  RE: Artillery Cannons - I don't see a problem with them, nor with adding them.  That said, Im not sure what the use case is?  They are -not- AOE on space hexes - space hexes are far too large.  The best 'use case' I can find for them is after the invention of reflective armor (do we even have that on our charts?  Either way, that turn wont come this year..), as they are sudden death to reflective armored craft - and reflective armor is itself super-effective against the energy weapons common in space?
« Last Edit: 05 May 2020, 12:25:35 by marcussmythe »

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #518 on: 05 May 2020, 12:35:10 »
Also, how did you get 292 systems for the LC?  Did you count every dot on the map in blue space? 

I think we can probably treat systems shown on the map as 'habitable', though at this point many will not be inhabited, at least not by any significant population.  There is no way at this early date the LC has meaningful populations on all 292 worlds.  At the same time, if we were showing EVERY star, those maps would be far more densely populated.

Still, putting a coaling station or at least some lonely people out in the black over every potentially habitable system in LC space has to have some value. 

For the record, you should not worry about or attempt to garrison -every- solar body in LC space.  Napkinmath suggests low hundreds of thousands, at least.

I counted the dots.

And I did it to figure out if my space station orders were reasonable or excessive.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #519 on: 05 May 2020, 13:05:56 »
Definitely excessive.  :D
... but man, counting all the dots. You got too much time.  ;D Just like I use too many smileys.
As for Anti-Fighter weapons: Barracudas. They may not be weight-effective, but they are cost-effective. Fighters do offer a great power to weight ratio.
Probably the best tactic against fighter swarms is to just run away, but stay in threat range, and give the enemy a bit of Nagumo's Dilemma.
Artillery Cannons I mostly just like for the fluff, but they do offer a reasonably ranged, 20 damage weapon to hit fighters with. Sure, in 5pt clusters, but still. It's just... I know it's space, but Flak just needs to explode...  :-[

So, I've been pondering this for a long while now, but didn't know how to post it;  If I build a fleet tender with a large repair bay, can I fix ships near the front and thus increase effective fleet readiness?
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marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #520 on: 05 May 2020, 13:12:46 »
Definitely excessive.  :D
... but man, counting all the dots. You got too much time.  ;D Just like I use too many smileys.
As for Anti-Fighter weapons: Barracudas. They may not be weight-effective, but they are cost-effective. Fighters do offer a great power to weight ratio.
Probably the best tactic against fighter swarms is to just run away, but stay in threat range, and give the enemy a bit of Nagumo's Dilemma.
Artillery Cannons I mostly just like for the fluff, but they do offer a reasonably ranged, 20 damage weapon to hit fighters with. Sure, in 5pt clusters, but still. It's just... I know it's space, but Flak just needs to explode...  :-[

So, I've been pondering this for a long while now, but didn't know how to post it;  If I build a fleet tender with a large repair bay, can I fix ships near the front and thus increase effective fleet readiness?

I would rule that a fleet tender with a repair bay large enough to handle a ship will in fact aid the repair time, and maybe even cost (think first aid vs. the damage of limping a wrecked ship home).  Whether thats WORTH it?  Probably only in a very high intensity conflict where youve got a lot of battles very fast, which we have not seen yet.

Simiarly, a cheap yard forward might help, as well.  Id allow even a small yard to help REPAIR a larger ship, even if it couldnt BUILD it.

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #521 on: 05 May 2020, 14:36:16 »
Simiarly, a cheap yard forward might help, as well.  Id allow even a small yard to help REPAIR a larger ship, even if it couldnt BUILD it.

I'm gald my turn 1 jumpships are finally being validated.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #522 on: 05 May 2020, 17:29:28 »
Thought about making a Warship for pure Anti-Fighter Duty. Don't have the budget for the PoR although I have been trying to think about it. Problem is it has to be a larger vessel to be very effective at least IMO. I also want it to have a fighter wing (or three) of its own and enough Cargo and Droppers to help this. Batteries of Larger Lasers/PPC's (maybe some Mediums), AC/20s and batteries of MG's, maybe a bunch of AC/2's or AC/5's, bunch of LRM 20's. Heavy Armor but fast speed, with NCSS. Barracuda's and NL/45's as really the only Capital Armament but they are good at anti-fighter duty too.

Yeah it's gonna be expensive...

Also, how did you get 292 systems for the LC?  Did you count every dot on the map in blue space? 

I counted twenty in the Blue space   ;D

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #523 on: 05 May 2020, 18:23:20 »
I counted twenty in the Blue space   ;D

You're in teal space. The Dragon's least favorite colour. You should have bribed the map guys to give you yellow. Then the dragon would be afraid of you.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #524 on: 05 May 2020, 18:32:04 »
Thought about making a Warship for pure Anti-Fighter Duty. Don't have the budget for the PoR although I have been trying to think about it. Problem is it has to be a larger vessel to be very effective at least IMO. I also want it to have a fighter wing (or three) of its own and enough Cargo and Droppers to help this. Batteries of Larger Lasers/PPC's (maybe some Mediums), AC/20s and batteries of MG's, maybe a bunch of AC/2's or AC/5's, bunch of LRM 20's. Heavy Armor but fast speed, with NCSS. Barracuda's and NL/45's as really the only Capital Armament but they are good at anti-fighter duty too.

Something like this?

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: CG Gul Fagel (Swedish:  'Yellow Bird')
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $9,508,604,000.00
Magazine Cost: $31,535,200.00
BV2: 117,827

Mass: 750,000
K-F Drive System: Compact
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Armor Type: Improved Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
40 Naval Laser 45
80 Capital Launcher Barracuda
240 LRM 20 (IS)
240 AC 5
160 Laser Large
80 AC 2
80 Machine Gun (IS)


Class/Model/Name: CG Arquera
Mass: 750,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 180,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 4
Maximum: 6
Controls: 1,875.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact (16 Integrity) 339,375.00
Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 68.00
Structural Integrity: 130 97,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 6645 Single 6,000.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 9,240.00
Armor: 1248 pts Improved Ferro-Aluminum 1,950.00
Fore: 208
Fore-Left/Right: 208/208
Aft-Left/Right: 208/208
Aft: 208

Dropship Capacity: 2 2,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Escape Pods: 50 350.00
Life Boats: 50 350.00

Crew And Passengers:
78 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 780.00
117 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 819.00
266 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 1,862.00
110 Bay Personnel 0.00

Equipment
Large NCSS

Bays
Bay 1, RBS 20 Fighters, 6 Doors
Bay 2, LBS, 20 Fighters, 6 Doors
Bay 3, Aft, 6 Small Craft, 20,974 Tons Cargo, 4 Doors

Armament:
Nose, RBS, LBS, Aft:
10 Barracuda (10 Rounds Ea)
60 LRM/20 (20 Rnds Ea)
60 AC/5 (20 Rnds Ea)
40 LLaser (20 Rnds Ea)
20 AC/2 (20 Rnds Ea)
20 MG (100 Rnds Ea)

FR, FL, AR, AL
10 NL/45
10 Barracuda (10 Rounds Ea)

She hits the magical 200 armor per facing to be highly fighter resistant.  80 Barracuda Tubes with 10 rounds lets you start killing fighters fast, and then the 40NL/45s, while not as good anti-fighter, wont run out of ammo and also give you stand-off fighter killers.

In close, each approach has about 1380 points of AAA damage, with 20 rounds of fire.  Her anti-ship firepower is at best 'okay' for her class, but shes got a lot of long range fire even so.  Cargo is light, but 2 droppers helps offset that (or you can cut price by about 1.6B per, and leave them at home) and shes an escort, not a deep raider, anyway.  LNCSS included as requested, but thats also .5B on your final price that could come off if your penny pinching.  Left her at 4/6, to match your fleet speed, but could go to 3/5 and slap on about 40 more NL/45s or so.

Jester Motley

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #525 on: 05 May 2020, 18:46:37 »
I actually find it quite interesting that no one so far built ships to counter fighters - but then, no one but the FS has actually researched AC/20s yet.

Having had the pleasure of playing last game, and the fighter density that amounted to, I actually feel like I've gone overboard with AA/PDS.

Every ship and starbase runs NLs for a reason.  Those are the first line of defense.  Most of my ships that I expect to go up against fighters either run fighters/small craft themselves, have a dropship for carrying fighters, or run barracuda.  And while AC/5s (and MGs but... yeah) are admittedly bad... thus my CVs, cause all things being even, the side with the most fighters will control "air" space, eventually. 

But you'll note my newest ship mounts NLs for reach out and touch someone, 40 LLs for medium, and 80 AC/20s for "you can ****** right off now, please.  Or if you don't please."  I hope I am running a layered defense against fighters.  Aero, Cuda, NLs, LLs, AC/20s.  Prob need some LRMs.  Those are coming.

Not as good as a dedicated PDS boat, but again, I have CVs, so kinda PDS boat, and... no one else has them...  So, until the threat steps up, I'm okay with that.

And yes, the FS researched AC/20s because we have carriers.  That was intentional.


And on that note, the master spreadsheet lists the Achilles with AC/2s, not AC/20s.  That's a bit of a difference.  Hope that doesn't mess with any turn events, either way.


As to starsystems...  If I remember my fluff reading from many many moons ago, most systems are uninhabited.  One reason pirates and deep raids are so easily done in the fluff.
« Last Edit: 05 May 2020, 18:48:29 by Jester Motley »

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #526 on: 05 May 2020, 18:49:21 »
Arrgh!  No, it should not impact this turn, but mea culpa, Ill fix that immediately.

Please, if anyone catches any other errors, please let me know.  Errors are gonna creep in, and a second set of eyes helps.

RE:  Stars - Casual Wiki'ing suggest there are about 2500-2700 stars within 70LY of earth, at least so far detected.  Thats about the same distance out as the TH on our map, on average.  The TH on our map has ~100 stars listed, so.. yeah.  Maybe 1 star in 25 or 30 is inhabited/inhabitable.  Lots of place to hide.

That also I suppose means you can multiply your, say, 300 systems in your area of space by 25 to find out that you would need 7,500 units to have a garrison-however-minor at all of them.  Given 150 Jumpships doing nothing else, you could visit each one once a year.

In the immortal words of Douglas Adams...
Space is big.  Really big.  No, bigger than that...  You may think its a long way down to the chemists...



« Last Edit: 05 May 2020, 19:09:07 by marcussmythe »

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #527 on: 05 May 2020, 19:09:42 »
I usually just fix them when I see them.
Every ship and starbase runs NLs for a reason.  Those are the first line of defense.  Most of my ships that I expect to go up against fighters either run fighters/small craft themselves, have a dropship for carrying fighters, or run barracuda.  And while AC/5s (and MGs but... yeah) are admittedly bad... thus my CVs, cause all things being even, the side with the most fighters will control "air" space, eventually. 

But you'll note my newest ship mounts NLs for reach out and touch someone, 40 LLs for medium, and 80 AC/20s for "you can ****** right off now, please.  Or if you don't please."  I hope I am running a layered defense against fighters.  Aero, Cuda, NLs, LLs, AC/20s.  Prob need some LRMs.  Those are coming.

Not as good as a dedicated PDS boat, but again, I have CVs, so kinda PDS boat, and... no one else has them...  So, until the threat steps up, I'm okay with that.
Well, last game we didn't have the 100-1 conversion of capital damage.
I honestly think 20 to 1 with an extra /5 penalty for fighters attacking warships would have been the more sensible approach.
Thing is, even last time, the amount of fighters was mostly due to them being able to carry capital missiles, at a time when fighters wouldn't really exist, at all.
And warships having large strips of toilet paper for armour, but that is another matter.

... actually, could you just mine all the empty systems you want "guarded"?

Edit:
Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Fleet Tender

Ship Cost: $13,240,608,000.00
Magazine Cost: $0.00

Mass: 900,000

K-F Drive System: Compact
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
16 Naval Laser 45
96 Laser Small

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 162,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 2,250.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact (19 Integrity) 407,250.00
Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 75.00
Structural Integrity: 75 67,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 1216 Single 602.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 18750 points 7,650.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 508 pts Standard 1,150.00
Fore: 80
Fore-Left/Right: 85/85
Aft-Left/Right: 85/85
Aft: 88

Dropship Capacity: 0 0.00
Grav Decks:
55m : 1 50.00
109m : 2 200.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 100 700.00
Life Boats: 110 770.00

Crew And Passengers:
49 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 49.00
176 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 176.00
63 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 63.00
624 Bay Personnel 0.00
5 1st Class Passengers 50.00
362 2nd Class Passengers 2,534.00
300 Steerage Passengers 1,500.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
2 Naval Laser 45 All 140 90 (9-C) Extreme-C 1,800.00
12 Laser Small All 12 36 (3.6-C) 6.00

Equipment Mass
NCSS Small 100.00
Naval Tug Adapter 90,100.00
MASH Unit 7.50
Repair Bay Unpressurized 500k 12500

72 Fighters
96 Small Craft
76kt Cargo
Been pondering this for a while now, so the design is weeks old. Could provide a forward fleet with maintenance and crews with grav deck leave.
Obviously, with the price involved, it'd probably be cheaper to build a new yard every second turn.
Maybe I should create a full-on Holiday ship instead.  :))
« Last Edit: 05 May 2020, 19:19:20 by UnLimiTeD »
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marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #528 on: 05 May 2020, 19:26:00 »
Its not something yould want a lot of.  Might wait till total hull count is higher.

Otoh, you cant carry a yard into hostile space.

RE: Mines...

Id worry about killing civilian jumpers passing through?

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #529 on: 05 May 2020, 19:54:11 »
Something like this?

I mean.... yeah....damn my procrastination!

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #530 on: 05 May 2020, 19:54:29 »
What upstanding citizen of the combine would avoid customs in an uninhabited system?  :D
True, though. Better mark those.
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kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #531 on: 05 May 2020, 20:26:51 »
I usually just fix them when I see them.Well, last game we didn't have the 100-1 conversion of capital damage.
I honestly think 20 to 1 with an extra /5 penalty for fighters attacking warships would have been the more sensible approach.
Thing is, even last time, the amount of fighters was mostly due to them being able to carry capital missiles, at a time when fighters wouldn't really exist, at all.
And warships having large strips of toilet paper for armour, but that is another matter.

... actually, could you just mine all the empty systems you want "guarded"?

Edit:
Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Fleet Tender

Snip

Been pondering this for a while now, so the design is weeks old. Could provide a forward fleet with maintenance and crews with grav deck leave.
Obviously, with the price involved, it'd probably be cheaper to build a new yard every second turn.
Maybe I should create a full-on Holiday ship instead.  :))

I just put the repair yard on a jumpship much cheaper that way.

And I did build the Marsden as a minefield equivalent.


UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #532 on: 06 May 2020, 06:27:11 »
That is actually a pretty good idea.
Of course, that means practically no cargo for the spares to do the repairing with.
Still, limiting maintenance to 2b a turn...  :-\
Actual robotic fighters could, of course, work, but why not just actual mines?
I could see the point of a few drones defending an automated jump ship with a sensor suite as a tripwire, though. As soon as an unidentified force larger than a single 200kt ship jumps in, jump to the nearest inhabited system and raise the alarm.
 :stupid: Of course, that requires a reaction to actually be available.
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kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #533 on: 06 May 2020, 13:44:22 »
That is actually a pretty good idea.
Of course, that means practically no cargo for the spares to do the repairing with.
Still, limiting maintenance to 2b a turn...  :-\
Actual robotic fighters could, of course, work, but why not just actual mines?
I could see the point of a few drones defending an automated jump ship with a sensor suite as a tripwire, though. As soon as an unidentified force larger than a single 200kt ship jumps in, jump to the nearest inhabited system and raise the alarm.
 :stupid: Of course, that requires a reaction to actually be available.

Space is really really big.

Minefields don't really work in 3D.

But fighter craft that can just wait for years between maintenance can cover a very large area.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #534 on: 06 May 2020, 15:08:58 »
I have, after a little bit of reading, come to the, in hindsight, obvious conclusion that guarding space is a futile endeavour.  xp
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truetanker

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #535 on: 06 May 2020, 15:11:34 »
I have a question, what about Space Suits using Breaching Frames.

Or how about environmental suits with combat exoskeletons. ( I know it's called a PA(L), but historically their called HeavyLoader https://www.sarna.net/wiki/HeavyHauler and PowerLoader https://www.sarna.net/wiki/PowerLoader?

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
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Daryk

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #536 on: 06 May 2020, 18:33:44 »
Minefields CAN work in 3D, but require a LOT more mines...

Jester Motley

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #537 on: 06 May 2020, 19:22:12 »
Minefields CAN work in 3D, but require a LOT more mines...

Or mobility of some kind, and seeking/tracking capability of some kind.  Ie, missiles laying doggo.

Daryk

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #538 on: 06 May 2020, 19:23:09 »
Those work too, but require FAST mines...

Jester Motley

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #539 on: 06 May 2020, 19:51:46 »
Those work too, but require FAST mines...

Eh.  The way I see it, mines aren't really about generating damage, but about forcing your enemy's actions.  They're a surprise weapon and area denial, yes, but more importantly, they force the enemy to either accept reckless movement, or honor area denial, or accept the threat that any given cubage is deadly, and react accordingly with movement along specific vectors, and with mine-sweepers out front.  A good admiral would be able to "Fence in" a force, forcing them to accept action against unfavorable odds, or risk moving through a mine field at speed.  And that last...  fast isn't needed.

So, more than just pure boomtasticness.