Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank  (Read 2717 times)

acksed

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Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« on: 19 July 2021, 06:25:56 »
Gladius Medium Hover Tank - 40t, TRO3060, RS: 3060


Picture from here.

The old article hath vanished into the aether, and this neophyte got the nod, so I thought I'd cover this little tank. If I ape better, wittier posters, it's because I've always appreciated these articles.

In many ways the Gladius is like the Sai aerospace fighter: good old-fashioned Introtech assembled into a new form to fill a much-needed gap, at a time when new tech was just coming out, but little else was available locally.

Here, the Marian Hegemony Armed Forces gained (with some help from the Taurians) a cheap BFG on a fast ICE platform. VTOLs were probably too fragile, tracked would give up far too much mass for a large engine, wheeled has further drawbacks, so, hovertank. The concept goes all the way back to the LTV-4 and its PPC, and was continued in the form of everyone's favourite floating Claymore mine, the Saladin.

In terms of looks, Nielsen's art in The Periphery hearkens back to the old Mad Max days; it's a slab-sided, brutally-functional tank rushing straight towards you, shots bouncing off and around, cavernous chatter-cannon spewing fire. It leaves no doubt as to what it was built to do: raiding and conquest. This Romani is not going domum till they've wrecked you.

Vohwinkel's TRO3060 illustration is more sedate, but shows off the sloped upper armour front and back. In both versions I can't help but wonder if the driver or commander is literally riding the cannon to see through the view slit. (There is precedent. Ill-advised precedent.)

The Gladius takes a slightly different tack to the Saladin, keeping the 8/12 speed but scaling down the cannon to a Pontiac 50 AC/10, and increasing the size of the chassis to 40 tons. This, and the lack of turret, lets the 5 tons of standard armour it could have worn increase to 6, and go a fair bit further: 30/24/18 makes it able to withstand an AC/20 from the front or sides, and maybe survive a blast from the rear. I can imagine Alphard's garrison forces in the rockier, hillier parts of the planet (i.e. most of them) grumbling about their new national symbol of statehood, but any Legion commander out on campaign must have breathed a sigh of relief at not having to write so many condolence letters to the families of exploded Saladin crews. I'd skim a point off the sides and add it to the rear to fully protect it from its spiritual little brother, but no-one asked me. :-P

The 5/10/15 range band for the autocannon means it can stand-off a bit better, but the lack of turret means you have to plan ahead, or lose your valuable movement points and +3 TMM rotating when brought up short by terrain. Twenty rounds is not great, but not bad either; you should have enough spare to try for medium-range shots.

The backstory is interesting. Canonically, they're the first native Marian vehicle, produced in 3042, and as part of Marian Arms Incorporated's trade deal with Sterope-Defense Industries that equipped them with their autocannon, the Concordat took 25 percent of the built vehicles. The Taurians were happy with the arrangement until Jeffrey Calderon said otherwise and cut trade, apparently leaving the TDF with the majority of the vehicles in the Inner Sphere; the Marians had trashed most of the one hundred Gladius' they had built obeying Lord Humungous invading Astrokazy and, later, conquering the Lothian League. This leaves it defunct until a change of management round Taurian way finally got round to reopening trade in 3066, restarting production. The Mk. II they began building alongside the original is... different, but I'll get to that in a minute.

As for usage, despite the name, you're not a sword for a front-line soldier, you're cavalry with an explosive lance. Whoosh into range, preferably with a partner or three, fire at someone in your front arc, and vwoom back out of reach. If you've survived, charge in and do it again. Your preferred prey are light 'mechs and vehicles that have forgotten to move, the backs of medium 'mechs that are preoccupied with your own 'mech forces, and anything else that won't like a couple bursts of AC/10. Then circle round as you wait for your prime movers and cargo carriers to load up anything that's not nailed down. Hanging out the window making the sign of the V8 is optional, but hilarious.

The armour means you can take a hit, the range means that you can stay out of the short range of a Saladin or Hetzer and return fire, BUT. While there are very few hover platforms beyond the Drillson that mount equivalent main weapons, you're still vulnerable to motive crits from LRMs, SRMs and medium lasers, all in abundance on faster, lighter Periphery vehicles with turrets. Likewise for AC/5s, which can still hurt if enough shots land.

You're not half as manoeuvrable as JJ-equipped scout 'mechs, either, what with needing to turn like a WW1 fighter to shoot behind you. You will also hate VTOLs for being able to skip over all those forests and hills while plinking away at you.

Fortunately, you can bring all of these friends with you too. On the 'native-built' front, Alphard Arms Inc. is noted to build J. Edgars in the '50s, perfect for counter-harassing those nasty plebians. (It doesn't say if they're the ICE variant, but were I running the table I'd allow a handwave and say they got help from the Taurians for the Standard.) What I've said applies equally well to the TDF, but replace "J. Edgar" with "Plainsman".

In short, keep together, watch your threes, sixes and nines for J. Edgars, Harassers and Strikers, keep in the medium or long range of any Pegasus and maybe pack a ton of Flak for Warriors. Pikes are your natural enemy: fairly abundant, indigenous to one of the Marian's preferred raiding targets, long-ranged enough that they can snipe before you get into range and tough enough to tank two or three of your own shots. If you have some of those parked on a hill when you drop, try to look unimportant, then make all speed towards their rear if no-one else can. (This might explain why they lost so many...)

This leads us on to the Jihad variant in Record Sheets: 3060, imaginatively called the Gladius Mk. II, and it's an oddball. Same chassis and armour, a Light AC/5 in the same place as the AC/10 (possibly the same LAC/5 installed in the Clint) and the same two tons ammo, the newly-perfected Rocket Launchers in two packs of fifteen, front *and* rear, and the final touch is a quad Light Machine Gun array in the front with 100 rounds total. Phew.

The Gladius Mk. II might seem like it was dipped in a parts-bin of Periphery tech and swirled around, but there is some logic to it. Given the L2 opposition the Marians could face (units with Gauss Rifles, ERLLs and Pulse Lasers, both Star League and Blakist, oh my!), they had to change tack again, and its LAC/5 is practically engraved with "Armour-Piercing and Precision ammo delivery system (TM)" next to the proof-mark. Two tons of both/either lets you - with luck - jar something loose in anything too tough for the BattleMechs. The RL15s continue the critical-seeking, as does the LMG array, though if you're in range to use the latter you're also in range of all the short-range weaponry of the day. Keep it at range 4, don't die and hope you hit the head. The rear-mounted rocket launchers strike me as deterrents for anyone homing in on its backside, but also serve as parting shots for a well-executed drive-by: fire everything at 4, move 8 past your target, fire again behind you. For fun, execute this tactic with a conga line of two or three of these.

Because of the reorganisation of the Legions, you'll have five of these in your lance; use them like the double-ended, double-barrelled shotguns they are, and you won't go far wrong. They play well with their older brothers, who can also benefit from Precision ammo. Taurians can do the same.

...That is, once Marian Arms and the Marian leadership (but I repeat myself) recovered from the Wobbie's neutron-bombing of Nova Roma; its intro date in the MUL is 3073. Very poor sports, those Blakists.

Opposing them is basically the same advice for all hovercraft, whether you're dirtbag militia fielding LRM/SRM Carriers supported by Scorpions and Goblins, Canopians pulling out a couple of Pikes on a hill or a lance of the nastiest wunderwaffen the Wobbies can dream up: cripple with motive crits and blow through the armour. In L2, blunt the speed advantage with pulse lasers or take long-range shots with Gauss or ERLL, otherwise they'll do a fair amount of damage before they go down. Same goes for the Mk. II, though they're a lot more all-or-nothing. Do not let them finish their attack run, and if you do, find a way to let them spend their missiles uselessly.

In conclusion, the Gladius is a fairly cheap counter/complement to the Saladin, a good accompaniment to any cavalry force and as it's tougher and longer-ranged, the 906,000 C-bills per vehicle (minus import tax) should go even further. At 586 BV, or 774 with a 3/4 crew, it's fairly easy to find a place for these on your force. The coming-and-going boomstick that is the Mk. II is more specialised, more expensive at 1,087,500 C-bills, and a little harder to squeeze in at 613*/809 BV, but still good fun.

If you want to imagine what else might be done while they were waiting for more autocannon (and I can think of a few things) head over to the Gladius Workshop thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/vehicle-of-the-week-workshop-gladius-medium-hover-tank/

MUL: Gladius, Gladius Mk. II.

*The MUL may be off: MegaMekLab gives 638 BV for the Mk. II. Tweak needed?
« Last Edit: 11 December 2022, 10:01:42 by acksed »
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Luciora

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #1 on: 19 July 2021, 06:43:40 »
I felt it was a nod to RL:Centurion, especially with the hover and hull mounted main gun some of the tanks went with.  Of course, adding a top turret with a smaller gun would have completed the picture.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #2 on: 19 July 2021, 07:43:37 »
Nice and well thought article.  I still have trouble using the 3060 version of the tank. I know you get benefits of optional ammo, and having better anti-infantry weapons.
Still, I prefer having AC/10. 

Also, I have to say I've not seen the original picture of the Gladius before. The 3060 one was very plain to me.  Thank you posting article, acksed!
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Colt Ward

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #3 on: 19 July 2021, 10:06:09 »
Nice and well thought article.  I still have trouble using the 3060 version of the tank. I know you get benefits of optional ammo, and having better anti-infantry weapons.
Still, I prefer having AC/10. 

Regarding the cavalry nature, yeah Spatha might have been a better name than the trooper 'Gladius' but oh well.

I am in this boat as well though I can appreciate the RL mounting logic . . . the more a Gladius hangs about the battlefield, the more likely it is to be crippled and then lost.  Which makes a tactical doctrine of dash in plinking with LAC/5, unload everything at RL15 short range on a target, dash away and just coincidentally place your rear facing RL15s on something's back as you leave, and then head back to the barn to reload the RLs makes sense.

But that sort of 1-shot punch is not something most folks want to buy into in a 1 off game.  With the cheap cost & easy stock replacement of RLs, as a Marian or Merc using these in a campaign I would want to get a targeting bonus to the RLs- some sort of SPA, perhaps the scattershot or whatever it is called that lets you get a higher cluster roll.

I always wondered why we did not see the Gladius more with mercs.  I also wish we had a 3140s Gladius Mk 3 that used a FCE to go faster and have FF armor.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #4 on: 19 July 2021, 11:13:59 »
I felt it was a nod to RL:Centurion, especially with the hover and hull mounted main gun some of the tanks went with.

Beat me to it.  The Gladius always looked like a snub-nosed version of a Deliverer, Horatius, or Trajan that lost its turret and a few pounds.

I still have trouble using the 3060 version of the tank. I know you get benefits of optional ammo, and having better anti-infantry weapons.
Still, I prefer having AC/10. 

The AC/10 on the original can still use alternate ammunition types, so the LAC/5 on the upgrade is a complete downgrade.  The upgrade then wastes most of the saved tonnage on dubious secondary weapons.

A better variant would have been a hover LRM carrier.  There are few examples, and the long-range fire support would have complemented the mid-range hole-punching of the original’s AC/10. 

Critting from massed SRMs would have been another complementary variant to the original’s AC/10 hole-punching.  But it wouldn’t have added much to the canon as we already have the Harasser, Pegasus, Pegasus (SRM), Plainsman, and Drillson (SRM) to pair SRM critting with the Gladius (or Saladin).

The key to these harasser/striker vehicles is to use them in large enough numbers to make a difference.  The simplicity of the Gladius’s design and its fluff hinted at that in-universe.

Solid article.  Keep them coming.
« Last Edit: 19 July 2021, 11:27:21 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #5 on: 19 July 2021, 13:14:42 »
Beat me to it.  The Gladius always looked like a snub-nosed version of a Deliverer, Horatius, or Trajan that lost its turret and a few pounds.

The AC/10 on the original can still use alternate ammunition types, so the LAC/5 on the upgrade is a complete downgrade.  The upgrade then wastes most of the saved tonnage on dubious secondary weapons.

A better variant would have been a hover LRM carrier.  There are few examples, and the long-range fire support would have complemented the mid-range hole-punching of the original’s AC/10. 

Critting from massed SRMs would have been another complementary variant to the original’s AC/10 hole-punching.  But it wouldn’t have added much to the canon as we already have the Harasser, Pegasus, Pegasus (SRM), Plainsman, and Drillson (SRM) to pair SRM critting with the Gladius (or Saladin).

The key to these harasser/striker vehicles is to use them in large enough numbers to make a difference.  The simplicity of the Gladius’s design and its fluff hinted at that in-universe.
I personally feel that localization should be a thing in BattleTech,  with availability chart.  It would give units value since there so many you have around where you are.
If your in that side of the Periphery, Gladius maybe one of the few vehicles available for purchase if you need replace something.   RAT doesn't quite do that some cases.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #6 on: 19 July 2021, 13:28:48 »
To me, the Gladius II is the anti-conventional platform you mix into your all-Gladius Centuries to give them flexibility. I think my preferred mix would be three Gladius to two Gladius IIs.

If you're facing mostly mechs, you load the IIs with AP ammo and send everyone in at once, using the base model tanks to open holes and the IIs to go for crits.

If your opposition has a lot of conventional units, you send the IIs in a first wave to reduce the threat from infantry and to go for motive hits on tanks, making them easier prey for the base model Gladii. If there are plenty of enemy hovercraft, use precision ammo to bring those down a peg.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #7 on: 19 July 2021, 14:13:05 »
I personally feel that localization should be a thing in BattleTech,  with availability chart.  It would give units value since there so many you have around where you are.
If your in that side of the Periphery, Gladius maybe one of the few vehicles available for purchase if you need replace something.   RAT doesn't quite do that some cases.

I would agree but, at times, we are also told the vehicles are a generic sampling . . . FREX, what gets featured in a TRO is the Gladius as the example of a 8/12, ICE, AC/10 hovertank . . . but a similar tank exists, produced by the OA though in smaller numbers called the 'Peacekeeper' perhaps even using a Pontiac AC/10 imported from the TC.  Look at it this way, with BT's abstraction effectively standardizing a lot of performance stats it is like arguing there is a huge qualitative difference (that would not be reflected in quirks/SPA) between NATO's 105mm smoothbore MBTs when they all weight roughly the same (pretty sure within 5t), fire the same type weapon, have comparable protection, and comparable endurance.

Or does anyone want to really assert it took till 3030s for any engineer to propose a 4/6 60t ICE tank armed with a AC/10 & some MGs?

Wrangler-  I would also note that such a chart, or at least IIRC roll modifiers, were a fun campaign addition in Combat Ops.

Agree with Weirdo that the Gladius II's LAC/5 is not IMO a big concern . . . Get the Prec ammo, and it makes a great scout killer.  Sure send out the Wasps and Locust to try to find me or get around my flanks.  My flanks are covered by maniples of Gladius II loaded with Prec Ammo . . . I get 20 shots on light mechs, and when one gets crippled (b/c 2 hits to a leg does bad things) then I can give it a RL cluster to try to finish the gimp.  Meanwhile instead of finding my force & learning it's dispositions, those Locusts/Wasps/Stingers are trying to play keep away from something that is as fast or faster than your scouts . . . while having more accurate fire at a longer range.  If my screen managed to play cat & mouse with your scouts for 20 rounds of fire the odds are I have something nastier headed that way.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #8 on: 19 July 2021, 14:31:43 »
Was that sampler statement said anywhere besides TR3026? I buy the concept but I’m trying to remember if it’s been repeated

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acksed

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #9 on: 19 July 2021, 15:17:10 »
I would agree but, at times, we are also told the vehicles are a generic sampling . . . FREX, what gets featured in a TRO is the Gladius as the example of a 8/12, ICE, AC/10 hovertank . . . but a similar tank exists, produced by the OA though in smaller numbers called the 'Peacekeeper' perhaps even using a Pontiac AC/10 imported from the TC.
Is there a reference for the Peacekeeper? Sometimes hunting down the more obscure lore units across the books is... well, they might as well be buried in the basement in a locked file cabinet behind a door marked 'Beware of Leopard'.
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Or does anyone want to really assert it took till 3030s for any engineer to propose a 4/6 60t ICE tank armed with a AC/10 & some MGs?
What gets me is that no-one in-universe thought it notable enough that the LTV-4 - the hover tank - might be found here and there with a jury-rigged AC/10 with 20 shots, a bit better armour and a larger engine.
« Last Edit: 19 July 2021, 15:50:33 by acksed »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #10 on: 19 July 2021, 15:25:13 »
Regarding the cavalry nature, yeah Spatha might have been a better name than the trooper 'Gladius' but oh well.
Pilum. or maybe Plumbata. fast moving. hits hard. ultimately disposable.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #11 on: 19 July 2021, 15:58:01 »
You don't want a name that emphasizes the disposable nature of the tank too much. After all, it's not actually that hard for a hovertank crew to go AWOL and lose themselves in a population, compared to infantry, or vehicles that are much slower AND leave tracks in the dirt... :)
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acksed

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Gladius Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #12 on: 19 July 2021, 18:16:40 »
Post script: despite the lack of people to play with (my house has become an online boardgame house), to check my intuitions with the Mk. II were correct I dug out my nearly-new, nearly untouched BattleTech box set, bought in the Before Times, and forlornly moved pieces about a battlemap. At least it's being used...

(Now if only I could repair the BattleMaster that arrived with a snapped-off arm. I wouldn't mind, but it was sealed into the box like that and had signs of glue.)
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