Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard

[tassa_kay]

or perhaps more against the Horses because "They invented the Mongols!"

The Mongol Doctrine's terror tactics aspects, as utilized against the Commonwealth, was squarely a Jade Falcon invention. Though who knows if the Lyrans will bother to make the distinction. We've certainly seen folks go to war over less in this setting (the Horses themselves even did it because they misunderstood what Malvina was doing and chose to fight her over it).

[Metallgewitter]

The Mongol Doctrine's terror tactics aspects, as utilized against the Commonwealth, was squarely a Jade Falcon invention. Though who knows if the Lyrans will bother to make the distinction. We've certainly seen folks go to war over less in this setting (the Horses themselves even did it because they misunderstood what Malvina was doing and chose to fight her over it).

Well you need an enemy to unite against. might as well against the inventor of a thing. And I had a crazy thought: maybe Trillian will take a page from the Free Worlds playbook and offer the Clan protostates to become part of the Commonwealth as a "United we stand against the threat of [insert enemy here]" Of course after Melissa's mishandling of the Wolves that might be the worst idea Trillian could make but the Leaguers took back the "nuke first ask questions later" Regulans into their fold so who knows

[CJC070]

In my opinion it is a way of destroying the caste system without destroying (or declawing) the Clans.  There is even hints with the Hells Horses and black market (with as little Malthus influence as possible).  In the end I believe the Tamar Pact will be united once again with a lot of Clan flare but most factions will be absorbed with their identity intact.  And may all factions unite against any neo-mongols (per the Falcon doctrine) or Malvina worshippers.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Again, I can see the major threat are the Horses. Can Jiyi put enough spin on, that will create a loose alliance to defend the new hinterlands against the said "neo mongol" ways.

While also showcasing the new Jade Dominion is nothing like the Mongols of past ? (I do agree and personally think that "different" social evolutions (based on Ras Dom or Scorps: more the latter) would be interesting to see in both the AML and the Jade Dominion (shown by Jiyi in the novels, room to grow). Especially the theory about a new Trueborn programme for AML. If the Foxes come for the AML, with good will and trading will Jiyi offer to help them? (I mean Jiyi has to play friendly, as he needs help against the Horses)

Can he rally up enough smear campaign against them ?, quoting "the Horses are Dezegra, they are covertly in league with the Malthus Confederation, they have lost their honor, mongolism will come" 

I sync with alot of the points you said too Tash, and CJC070 about all in the Tamar Pact, but identities intact, mixture, and Scorpion/Spheroid mix society. (would make good fiction)

But again as a loyal Jade Falcon (rare) Warden/Jesse/Intergrationist, I would always prefer to see "Clan Jade Falcon" and or "Jade Dominion" on the map :thumbsup:

But I guess, if it does turn out like Tamar Pact united theory, (like Scorpion Empire) I can get behind that too, I am just a sucker for Falcon naming on maps 8)

But again, new SLDF is gonna be a mish mash too

[Mendrugo]

Can he rally up enough smear campaign against them ?, quoting "the Horses are Dezegra, they are covertly in league with the Malthus Confederation, they have lost their honor, mongolism will come" 

Hard to make the case that the Horses are in league with the Confederation, not after what they did to the Khan’s favorite Hell’s Horse mare.  (Operation Stampede was threatening worlds that had paid the Confederation for protection, and that was part tf the Malthus campaign to make the Horses back off.  The Horses now want the Confederation Annihilated.)

[JAMES_PRYDE]

So, hypothetical here at the moment, needing more development

IF, Jiyi does do the "RasDom" system, or something similar, what would it look like for the Falcons ? As the Bears, Scorpions and Ravens all have their own take on it

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That's pretty hard to say.  Jiyi would probably be ultimately in charge but with the lower castes having parliamentary representation, maybe?

[Scotty]

There's very little point in trying to do Clan/not-Clan political division in the Falcon OZ.  Warrior/Lower Caste, maybe, but that'd be an interesting new take on it compared to the RasDom or RA.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Also, given that there's already an example of "what if the Clan civilians were in charge?" right next door, it seems like it would be more plausible that Jiyi's Falcons will focus on something like a return the the older, nobler days of the Clan prior to Hazen's insanity.  Maybe with more respect for the lower castes, but still something trying to hold to Clan ideals than create another hybrid system.  And probably considerably more Warden in outlook.

[Weirdo]

Has Jiyi ever been described as a Warden? I suspect he might be more accurately described as a 'Realist Crusader.' He knows he doesn't have the strength to do much conquering, but that doesn't mean it's not on his eventual to-do list.

[Scotty]

Has Jiyi ever been described as a Warden? I suspect he might be more accurately described as a 'Realist Crusader.' He knows he doesn't have the strength to do much conquering, but that doesn't mean it's not on his eventual to-do list.

Jiyi's politics seem to defy conventional definition.  He was sideboarded by Malvina so it seems fair to characterize as "Not Mongol" specifically and he definitely has some small-l liberal ideas about Clan society.

Jury is still out whether it's genuine personal belief in a more egalitarian Clan society or if he's the flip-side of Malvina's brand of Pure Clan Ideas (meaning Malvina was the ultimate expression of victory resulting in reality; Jiyi's response is not far off from the reverse of "failure on an existential level means to succeed everything must change" but that could still be coincidence).

[VensersRevenge]

Does the Warden-Crusader divide even matter anymore? The goal of the Crusaders is done. The Wolves became IlClan and reestablished the Star League. And the last Clan group to be truly Warden, the Wolves-in-Exile, betrayed their purpose an joined it. The Bears, Ravens, and Foxes have all moved beyond being just Clans, and it seems the remaining Jade Falcons are doing the same. I guess the Hells Horses still care for now, but identifying Clan characters based on the Warden-Crusader divide in 3151 seems like dividing the House Leaders based on which Terran Alliance political party they would be part of.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Has Jiyi ever been described as a Warden? I suspect he might be more accurately described as a 'Realist Crusader.' He knows he doesn't have the strength to do much conquering, but that doesn't mean it's not on his eventual to-do list.

Insomuch as the Warden-vs-Crusader divide even still exists in the 32nd Century Clans, I don't think that he's really a believer in the Warden cause so much as he's smart enough to realize that promoting a Warden-ish outlook among the Falcons for the next few years is going to be necessary for the Clan's survival.  He needs to present a friendlier image for his faction in order to avoid having a bunch of people with more guns than he's got decide that he needs to be squashed.

[CJC070]

Does the Warden-Crusader divide even matter anymore? The goal of the Crusaders is done. The Wolves became IlClan and reestablished the Star League. And the last Clan group to be truly Warden, the Wolves-in-Exile, betrayed their purpose an joined it. The Bears, Ravens, and Foxes have all moved beyond being just Clans, and it seems the remaining Jade Falcons are doing the same. I guess the Hells Horses still care for now, but identifying Clan characters based on the Warden-Crusader divide in 3151 seems like dividing the House Leaders based on which Terran Alliance political party they would be part of.

Due to the Clan nature (and Battletech in general) there will always be division.  Until we see new “pro-iClan and anti-iClan factions there will still be the Wardens and the Crusaders.  Yes the Hells Horses have their own Mongol doctrine but we still don’t know if the Clans will follow Alaric fully or pay them lip service.

[Weirdo]

I suspect the new divide will be between "We have Terra and have formed declared a new League, let's call it good" and "Everybody under one banner or nobody, it's Reunification War II time, let's gooooo!!!", plus the various shades between those two.

[Church14]

Alaric looks to be demanding complete fealty/wanting of being in the ilClan. See: Bears

It looks (to me) like the clan divide will be Alaric and anyone foolish enough to follow him against anyone who doesn’t agree to follow him absolutely.

I also don’t see any IS faction joining him. But I could easily be wrong

[Metallgewitter]

Alaric looks to be demanding complete fealty/wanting of being in the ilClan. See: Bears

It looks (to me) like the clan divide will be Alaric and anyone foolish enough to follow him against anyone who doesn’t agree to follow him absolutely.

I also don’t see any IS faction joining him. But I could easily be wrong

I think the most issues will be the Bears and Foxes. The Bears have fully integrated with Rasalhague which will cause trouble as I don't see their IS population being happy bending the knee to anyone (they know how bad it was under Combine rule). And part of the Foxes are part of a Great House that is actively waging war against the Wolves. I am not sure they really want to fight against other Foxes or fight within their new home

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Foxes want to be in the position of selling guns to both sides.

[jklantern]

I've been catching up on some of the plot developments since ilClan, and I just gotta say, I LOVE the balkanization of the former JF Occupation Zone.  And I am genuinely curious to see where it goes, with both the Alyina Mercantile League and the Falcon Remnants.  I feel like there's some fun storytelling possibilities there.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I've been catching up on some of the plot developments since ilClan, and I just gotta say, I LOVE the balkanization of the former JF Occupation Zone.  And I am genuinely curious to see where it goes, with both the Alyina Mercantile League and the Falcon Remnants.  I feel like there's some fun storytelling possibilities there.

I am interested in seeing how the new "Jade Dominion" develops, Jiyi's style of leadership, as expressed in "A Question of Survival" and other fiction tid bits floating around.

Basically a much kinder Falcon and realist, some would dare say "Warden-ish". IF as the story develops, a "RasDom" system grows, but in unique Falcon Style, I would love to see that, and what it would look like. The doing away of the whole "Lower" Caste mentality, to be replaced by the wording and mentality of "Civilian" Castes, following the Scorpions lead, the "Garrison Caste", integrate EVERYONE (including native) into "Jiyi's New CJF".

Touched upon in "Falcon Rising" or "Freebirth", the Scientists had their "Labnames", the new Jade Dominion could award these special legacy names for each Caste, based upon the support divisions of the original SLDF / 800. Something more than what AML can offer ?. Elevate Jodine more, get her insight (as Falcons in 3067 had the best economy aside from was it Ghost Bear or Diamond Shark?)

Elections, or Trials (relevant type) of each caste to see who gets the top positions on Jiyi's War Council, somehow loop the populace in.

Jade Dominion, more than just an Occupation Zone, a nest, where Turkina looks after all 8)   

[phoenixalpha]

I think the most issues will be the Bears and Foxes. The Bears have fully integrated with Rasalhague which will cause trouble as I don't see their IS population being happy bending the knee to anyone (they know how bad it was under Combine rule). And part of the Foxes are part of a Great House that is actively waging war against the Wolves. I am not sure they really want to fight against other Foxes or fight within their new home

I think most IS populations wont give a rats ass about who is in charge of the people in charge of the people in charge... as long as their lives can go on in the same vein as its always been. There is lots of evidence (canon) to support this. So the Bears joining the new new Star League (ilClan remix) - wont be much of a difference to the average person on the street.   

[Metallgewitter]

I am interested in seeing how the new "Jade Dominion" develops, Jiyi's style of leadership, as expressed in "A Question of Survival" and other fiction tid bits floating around.

Basically a much kinder Falcon and realist, some would dare say "Warden-ish". IF as the story develops, a "RasDom" system grows, but in unique Falcon Style, I would love to see that, and what it would look like. The doing away of the whole "Lower" Caste mentality, to be replaced by the wording and mentality of "Civilian" Castes, following the Scorpions lead, the "Garrison Caste", integrate EVERYONE (including native) into "Jiyi's New CJF".

Touched upon in "Falcon Rising" or "Freebirth", the Scientists had their "Labnames", the new Jade Dominion could award these special legacy names for each Caste, based upon the support divisions of the original SLDF / 800. Something more than what AML can offer ?. Elevate Jodine more, get her insight (as Falcons in 3067 had the best economy aside from was it Ghost Bear or Diamond Shark?)

Elections, or Trials (relevant type) of each caste to see who gets the top positions on Jiyi's War Council, somehow loop the populace in.

Jade Dominion, more than just an Occupation Zone, a nest, where Turkina looks after all 8)   

The question will be how long he can survive. There is a new Tamar Pact then we have the Horses and also the Commonwealth. Not exactly the best circumstances even if he can attract more people to his cause.
Who knows maybe he gets the honor of being the one Trilian has decided to make an example of. An example of being obliterated under the guns of the last Mjolnir battlecruiser because "Falcons are evil and deserve a taste of their own medicine". Though more realisticly Trilian might choose Brewer or perhaps even the distracted Wolves to gain more trust among her people then stomping on a small Falcon holdout

[JAMES_PRYDE]

The question will be how long he can survive. There is a new Tamar Pact then we have the Horses and also the Commonwealth. Not exactly the best circumstances even if he can attract more people to his cause.
Who knows maybe he gets the honor of being the one Trilian has decided to make an example of. An example of being obliterated under the guns of the last Mjolnir battlecruiser because "Falcons are evil and deserve a taste of their own medicine". Though more realisticly Trilian might choose Brewer or perhaps even the distracted Wolves to gain more trust among her people then stomping on a small Falcon holdout

Then again, a major development, mentioned in here, is perhaps by 3160 - 3170 or further down the track ? That the whole area unifies ("Tamar Rising") "Tamar Pact style" it was said in here), but each faction's identity is their own and is represented ?

But Brewer and to annoy Wolves, would be good for Trilian, more productive

[Stormy]

I think it’s interesting because it’s more or less plots-Clan syncretic in nature, and that’s neat and fun. It’s why I like the New mini-states (and the Scorpion Empire of that matter)

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I think it’s interesting because it’s more or less plots-Clan syncretic in nature, and that’s neat and fun. It’s why I like the New mini-states (and the Scorpion Empire of that matter)

I like how the Scorpions are going too

[Von Jankmon]

O, my Clan.

We will rise anew.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

O, my Clan.

We will rise anew.

The Jade Dominion 8)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Jade Hegemony.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Jade Hegemony.

What is the difference ? Battletetch wise I mean

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It sounds less Ghost Bear.