Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard

[tassa_kay]

I think it's still a pretty big "if" on the Falcons taking any world for themselves, given their new purpose.

[HABeas2]

Something to remember, while Blaine wrote the novel with the Jags returning and he wrote the Dark Age novel where the Fidelis appeared and were found to be Jaguar descendants, there have been at least 3 different management teams that had to approve their continued use. First was the WizKids team with Surrender Your Dreams. Second was the current team led by Ray that set forth this direction. Third was the Herb led team that wrote much of the in-between sourcebooks and could have written off the Jags if they wanted.

You grossly underestimate the authority the Line Developer's authority if you think Ray or I had any power to change plans laid down by WizKids. I won't speak for Ray, but if I had my druthers, rest assured that the Jaguars would have stayed dead and gone. But then again, the Dragoons would also have been completely wiped out, Tamar would have joined the list of dead worlds, and the Carlyle bloodline would have ended at Tharkad. Of these things, only the demise of Alexander Carlyle was written into the timeline on my watch, but because there was no in-character way to bring it up "on screen", it was ripe for retconning the moment I was out of the Dev's chair.

So, yeah, don't think the Line Dev has the final say on the story; there are people above who can overrule them at any time.

- Herb

[Gorgon]

So I got a random question for those more versed in Falcon and Dark Age lore: Elstars - what's up with that? I just stumbled upon the term and short description on sarna. Is that something that has come up in more than one story? Is it a new and established warrior gene type among the Falcons? Or was it a one-off thing that got quietly dropped?

Quoting the sarna definition for conveniences sake:

Elstars A thirty-second century Genotype of Clan Warrior that was first introduced by the scientist caste of Clan Jade Falcon. It combined all three existing genotypes of Clan Warrior; MechWarrior, Elemental, and aerospace pilot.  The resulting combination results in slightly shorter, large headed individuals who show superior reflexes and other abilities. Other Inner Sphere Clans have adopted the genotype as well. They are considered to be superior to typical Clan warrior, but also they are rarely used unless extreme situation are called for. The name of the genotype comes from term Elite Ristar

[wantec]

You grossly underestimate the authority the Line Developer's authority if you think Ray or I had any power to change plans laid down by WizKids. I won't speak for Ray, but if I had my druthers, rest assured that the Jaguars would have stayed dead and gone. But then again, the Dragoons would also have been completely wiped out, Tamar would have joined the list of dead worlds, and the Carlyle bloodline would have ended at Tharkad. Of these things, only the demise of Alexander Carlyle was written into the timeline on my watch, but because there was no in-character way to bring it up "on screen", it was ripe for retconning the moment I was out of the Dev's chair.

So, yeah, don't think the Line Dev has the final say on the story; there are people above who can overrule them at any time.

- Herb

Interesting, thanks for that feedback Herb. I guess I misunderstood how all the planning and such went.

[tassa_kay]

So I got a random question for those more versed in Falcon and Dark Age lore: Elstars - what's up with that? I just stumbled upon the term and short description on sarna. Is that something that has come up in more than one story? Is it a new and established warrior gene type among the Falcons? Or was it a one-off thing that got quietly dropped?

That definition is kindasorta accurate, except they're not a combination of all phenotypes. Elstars are the result of the scientist caste "taking the gloves off" and actively modifying the human genome (as opposed to just selective breeding) in the breeding program to create warriors that are even more physically suited to their intended roles: aerospace pilots would have augmented cardiovascular systems and augmented skeletal frames to better withstand pressure/acceleration/microgravity, MechWarriors would have augmented combat reflexes and skulls reshaped for better neurohelmet interface, Elementals would have even more muscle mass and greater resistance to pain and injury, etc. Elstars would also look less human because of these more extreme genetic modifications. These programs are basically experimental at this point, and the elstars that do exist aren't warmly welcomed by their fellow warriors (whether because of their augmented nature, their appearance, or the general post-WoR Clan squeamishness with genetics), and as of right now, we've only had them talked about twice: once in Era Report 3145 and once in a novel (I can't remember which off the top of my head!). Unfortunately, this might have been dropped, but they do exist both in the fiction and in a sourcebook, so there ya go.

[Gorgon]

Thanks, tassa, that clears things up!

[tassa_kay]

Thanks, tassa, that clears things up!

My pleasure! I always liked the Elstar concept and I'm hoping to see them again in some form.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

That definition is kindasorta accurate, except they're not a combination of all phenotypes. Elstars are the result of the scientist caste "taking the gloves off" and actively modifying the human genome (as opposed to just selective breeding) in the breeding program to create warriors that are even more physically suited to their intended roles: aerospace pilots would have augmented cardiovascular systems and augmented skeletal frames to better withstand pressure/acceleration/microgravity, MechWarriors would have augmented combat reflexes and skulls reshaped for better neurohelmet interface, Elementals would have even more muscle mass and greater resistance to pain and injury, etc. Elstars would also look less human because of these more extreme genetic modifications. These programs are basically experimental at this point, and the elstars that do exist aren't warmly welcomed by their fellow warriors (whether because of their augmented nature, their appearance, or the general post-WoR Clan squeamishness with genetics), and as of right now, we've only had them talked about twice: once in Era Report 3145 and once in a novel (I can't remember which off the top of my head!). Unfortunately, this might have been dropped, but they do exist both in the fiction and in a sourcebook, so there ya go.

They were mentioned in Heretic's Faith as existing in the Nova Cat Touman. A Star Colonel was informing Mystic Kisho she had several Elstars under her command.

[Mecha82]

I am very much interested to learn more about AML and what is they deal as well as what Jiyi's Falcons are doing.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I am very much interested to learn more about AML and what is they deal as well as what Jiyi's Falcons are doing.

AML = "Tamar Rising" Source book, plus a Shrapnel Story ?

Still awaiting more intel (fiction releases). Latest I have is, something about Khan Stephanie Chistu's Golden Keshik on Northwind / near Cappelan space? Khan Jiyi Chistu has almost gotten all of his "Ghost Falcons" up and running ("A Question of Survival" and a Shrapnel Story). Clan Jade Falcon space has a (on file) supported Cluster as Garrison, plus his pet mercs lol, hints there are more forces off book, besides Ghost Falcons, and he has sibko's running, being ready in 3 years ?. The question if they are officially together is in the wind, as at the end of "No Substitute for Victory" is that Star Colonel Baxter was making his way through Falcon Space, with message of the ilClan Trial, and obviously about Stephanie's Falcons

Horsies are angry and will likey make trouble for the AML and Jiyi, plus power projection near Terra ? IF they do, will AML and Jiyi have a loose alliance, as they will take the brunt, if the ponnies decide to push for the Hinterlands.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Side note on Protos from another topic.

Had this idea more as a joke as to why CJF quickly abandoned Proto's early, while many others, persevered through first generation, and now up to date, they can be quite effective.

Etine Balzac was head of Scientist Caste during the Society's uprising/insurrection, and (he was one of the most prominent?) leaders of The Society, so he purposely sabotaged results and tech of the first Falcon Protomech testings, so they would discard the programme quickly, allowing him later access.

Fast forward to ilClan, will Falcons employ Proto's ?

[Angrii]

Fast forward to ilClan, will Falcons employ Proto's ?

That would make for an interesting contrast to the IlClan Falcons. That being said, I think it very unlikely given that the whole point of Protomechs is resource scarcity and Jiyi's Falcons are swimming in industrial output (so much so that they struggle to fill the available 'Mechs with pilots).

[tassa_kay]

Etine Balzac was head of Scientist Caste during the Society's uprising/insurrection, and (he was one of the most prominent?) leaders of The Society, so he purposely sabotaged results and tech of the first Falcon Protomech testings, so they would discard the programme quickly, allowing him later access.

This is more or less what actually happened. ;)

[wantec]

That would make for an interesting contrast to the IlClan Falcons. That being said, I think it very unlikely given that the whole point of Protomechs is resource scarcity and Jiyi's Falcons are swimming in industrial output (so much so that they struggle to fill the available 'Mechs with pilots).

Yeah, ProtoMechs came about because the Jaguars had a high tech level, plenty of production facilities, plenty of warriors, but a shortage of resources to build 'Mechs. Both sets of Falcons are short on warriors as their main issue. If anything you might see more and more 'Mech only forces as they rebuild.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I am very much interested to learn more about AML and what is they deal as well as what Jiyi's Falcons are doing.

The latest Shrapnel has a story about the AML and two Merc factions of ‘renown’: one which will be a serialized novel 👍

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, ProtoMechs came about because the Jaguars had a high tech level, plenty of production facilities, plenty of warriors, but a shortage of resources to build 'Mechs. Both sets of Falcons are short on warriors as their main issue. If anything you might see more and more 'Mech only forces as they rebuild.

Protomechs also significantly shorten the life expectancy of the pilot, and the different Falcon factions are probably going to want to keep their warriors alive and active as long as possible.

[Weirdo]

Protomechs also significantly shorten the life expectancy of the pilot...

Only somewhat true. The rules for neural degradation are such that an aerospace phenotype warrior that gets the implants at 18 won't die from them until their late 40s or early 50s, on average. That is far beyond the point that Clan military society cares about you, unless you're a Galaxy Commander or Khan.

I will concede that being alive and being a functional warrior are two different thresholds, and the point where you cease being the latter is probably several years before you cease being the former.

[CJC070]

Only somewhat true. The rules for neural degradation are such that an aerospace phenotype warrior that gets the implants at 18 won't die from them until their late 40s or early 50s, on average. That is far beyond the point that Clan military society cares about you, unless you're a Galaxy Commander or Khan.

I will concede that being alive and being a functional warrior are two different thresholds, and the point where you cease being the latter is probably several years before you cease being the former.

I got the impression the average life expectancy was closer to late 30-40s.  Besides they need warriors to train the next generation so it wouldn’t surprise me if Jiu Chitsu encourages trials of Grievance to be less combative and more competitive. 
 

[Weirdo]

The nature of Protos does mean that the odds of surviving a lot of combat isn't very good, but the rules in AToWC are pretty clear. With an average WIL score at the start, you're looking at 40s-50s before hitting zero from the implants themselves.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't know about the rules, but the few times I've seen Protos focused on in the fiction it sounded like the pilots start suffering from career-ending psychological issues much faster than that.

[Gorgon]

Only somewhat true. The rules for neural degradation are such that an aerospace phenotype warrior that gets the implants at 18 won't die from them until their late 40s or early 50s, on average. That is far beyond the point that Clan military society cares about you, unless you're a Galaxy Commander or Khan.

I will concede that being alive and being a functional warrior are two different thresholds, and the point where you cease being the latter is probably several years before you cease being the former.

Then it may be an option for a Clan that finds itself critically short on ground forces but with a robust supply of pilot sibkos. A niche case, to be sure, but still.

[Mecha82]

AML = "Tamar Rising" Source book, plus a Shrapnel Story ?

Still awaiting more intel (fiction releases). Latest I have is, something about Khan Stephanie Chistu's Golden Keshik on Northwind / near Cappelan space? Khan Jiyi Chistu has almost gotten all of his "Ghost Falcons" up and running ("A Question of Survival" and a Shrapnel Story). Clan Jade Falcon space has a (on file) supported Cluster as Garrison, plus his pet mercs lol, hints there are more forces off book, besides Ghost Falcons, and he has sibko's running, being ready in 3 years ?. The question if they are officially together is in the wind, as at the end of "No Substitute for Victory" is that Star Colonel Baxter was making his way through Falcon Space, with message of the ilClan Trial, and obviously about Stephanie's Falcons

Horsies are angry and will likey make trouble for the AML and Jiyi, plus power projection near Terra ? IF they do, will AML and Jiyi have a loose alliance, as they will take the brunt, if the ponnies decide to push for the Hinterlands.

The latest Shrapnel has a story about the AML and two Merc factions of ‘renown’: one which will be a serialized novel 👍

Ah thank you both of you.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

This is more or less what actually happened. ;)

Imagine if it didn't, we could have had more bird like and bird / dinosaur looks making style, along with the others, minus the Harpy and Siren

Roc would have been a perfect Falcon first generation totem, plus a better Eyrines ? Roc has a laser, Eyrines the missles

Perhaps a heaver version of the Roc, put some miniature wings on it

A Raptor like one with claws / talons perhaps

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Something I have been wondering about, as Jiyi's Falcons develop and solidify their territory.

The ilClan Trial is over, the new ear has begun, why in fiction is Falcon space still being called "Clan Jade Falcon "Occupation Zone" ? (As it stands for the old, as something temporary, before conquering Terra) Other Clans who are permanetly in the Inner Sphere have changed names

Falcons departed the Homeworlds after Wars of Reavings, so there is no "home" there anymore, and since the ilClan Trial is over, should not Jiyi's Falcons, simply be "Clan Jade Falcon" and referred to as "Clan Jade Falcon Space" as they are permanently there

Or are the writers waiting for abit more ilClan plot development ? To me, it makes sense to evolve the naming, as soon we will have "Clan Jade Falcon: Terran Enclave" floating around too

[Weirdo]

It's because the only thing Clan Jade Falcon hates more than anything Not Jade Falcon, it's updating the headers on their stationary.

[tassa_kay]

It was the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone for a literal century. It'll take people a while to get used to the new normal. I don't see an issue there.

FWIW, Tamar Rising simply calls Jiyi's little faction "Clan Jade Falcon" on the map, with no mention of OZ.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Something I have been wondering about, as Jiyi's Falcons develop and solidify their territory.

The ilClan Trial is over, the new ear has begun, why in fiction is Falcon space still being called "Clan Jade Falcon "Occupation Zone" ?

Probably to emphasize that they never integrated with the natives the way that the Bears or Ravens did.

[Jal Phoenix]

Something I have been wondering about, as Jiyi's Falcons develop and solidify their territory.

The ilClan Trial is over, the new ear has begun, why in fiction is Falcon space still being called "Clan Jade Falcon "Occupation Zone" ? (As it stands for the old, as something temporary, before conquering Terra) Other Clans who are permanetly in the Inner Sphere have changed names

Falcons departed the Homeworlds after Wars of Reavings, so there is no "home" there anymore, and since the ilClan Trial is over, should not Jiyi's Falcons, simply be "Clan Jade Falcon" and referred to as "Clan Jade Falcon Space" as they are permanently there

Or are the writers waiting for abit more ilClan plot development ? To me, it makes sense to evolve the naming, as soon we will have "Clan Jade Falcon: Terran Enclave" floating around too

As per page 72 of Tamar Rising, and the big fold out map in the back, the former Jade Falcon OZ is now referred to as The Hinterlands, with Clan Jade Falcon being one of the factions possessing territory within. There is no more Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.

[tassa_kay]

There is no more Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.

Oh, there is, it's just not called that anymore.  ;D

[Scotty]

Oh, there is, it's just not called that anymore.  ;D

They've been Jade Falcon territory for almost as long as the time between the end of the Ottoman Empire and now.  They're not an occupation zone in any meaningful sense of the word.