Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard

[tassa_kay]

So I think TPTB, not necessarily knowing what Victor Milan intended for Cynthy to do or represent, went the most expected route there, and BLP wrote it that way.

A problem that could've easily been solved by, gee, I dunno, reading the book? But I've noticed several instances of writers having obviously not read the work that they themselves go on to build upon (specifically A Rending of Falcons), and it's incredibly frustrating. The lack of consistency is doubly frustrating when they tout having fact checkers.

Hell, the BattleTech Legends book was at least 50% wrong, right down to having the wrong paint job AND wrong weapons on her Shrike.

To be perfectly frank, at no point did Malvina ever get written like someone that it would be reasonable to expect her to not be abusive, no matter how good her intentions might have been.  She was just too volatile and prone to lashing out randomly whenever something upset her.

Hard disagree. Aleks and Cynthy were very specifically exempt from this, and for reasons that were laid out pretty damn well.

[CJC070]

To be perfectly frank, at no point did Malvina ever get written like someone that it would be reasonable to expect her to not be abusive, no matter how good her intentions might have been.  She was just too volatile and prone to lashing out randomly whenever something upset her.

Agreed but it would have been nice to know what made Malvina abusive in the first place.  We only received hints and a sudden dynamic shift only represents a call for communication (in real life). 

I feel the Lyrans will make a come back but I hope we see a gradual shift instead of a deus ex machina we have seen to many times over the years.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Once the writers remember that the Commonwealth still exists, you mean?

[Shin_Fenris]

Hard disagree. Aleks and Cynthy were very specifically exempt from this, and for reasons that were laid out pretty damn well.

100% this. Admittedly, I don't have my novels near by ("working" lmao) so I'll absolutely defer to others if I'm in error, but it wasn't everyone outside of Malvina prior to FM3145 going "oh, yeah, she dotes on Cynthy to a weird degree, so you know there is totally no abuse." Other than Beckett's observations, most of the narrative towards Cynthy was either external or internal Malvina, going on about obliterating life in the universe -except- for her. Every book appearance I can think of involving Cynthy in some way, shape, or form, absolutely emphasizes that she's the one thing left in existence that is "safe" from Malvina's rage. If a shift towards her would have occurred for a logical narrative, it would have had to occur directly after Aleks' death (when you'd imagine Malvina would be the most prone to lashing out at the one thing left) & I don't remember anything in the MWDA novels displaying that.

I mean, it's a fictional character created by someone other than me, and I can't speak to the headspace thereof, but for all of Malvina's sins, being abusive towards Cynthy to reach the conclusion in HotW is the hardest for me to accept.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

All tales in the record of "The Not Named Hazen" good riddance

Will be nice going forward in ilClan to see Cynthy resurface somewhere

[Khalus Pryde]

All tales in the record of "The Not Named Hazen" good riddance

Will be nice going forward in ilClan to see Cynthy resurface somewhere

That would likely involve seeing what the heck is going on with Terra though, which I am eager to see for numerous reasons. :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

100% this. Admittedly, I don't have my novels near by ("working" lmao) so I'll absolutely defer to others if I'm in error, but it wasn't everyone outside of Malvina prior to FM3145 going "oh, yeah, she dotes on Cynthy to a weird degree, so you know there is totally no abuse." Other than Beckett's observations, most of the narrative towards Cynthy was either external or internal Malvina, going on about obliterating life in the universe -except- for her. Every book appearance I can think of involving Cynthy in some way, shape, or form, absolutely emphasizes that she's the one thing left in existence that is "safe" from Malvina's rage.

My problem is that I never found that claim to be believable.  I'm willing to believe that Malvina genuinely believed herself, but I don't accept that she had the self-control to actually insure that she never actually did anything to Cynthy.  Let's just say it's a common narrative with abusers and leave it at that.

[jklantern]

So, Falcons have never been my favorite Clan.  But I am EXCITED to see what happens with the remnants in the occupation zone, both the AML and Chistu's remnant.

[tassa_kay]

100% this. Admittedly, I don't have my novels near by ("working" lmao) so I'll absolutely defer to others if I'm in error, but it wasn't everyone outside of Malvina prior to FM3145 going "oh, yeah, she dotes on Cynthy to a weird degree, so you know there is totally no abuse." Other than Beckett's observations, most of the narrative towards Cynthy was either external or internal Malvina, going on about obliterating life in the universe -except- for her. Every book appearance I can think of involving Cynthy in some way, shape, or form, absolutely emphasizes that she's the one thing left in existence that is "safe" from Malvina's rage. If a shift towards her would have occurred for a logical narrative, it would have had to occur directly after Aleks' death (when you'd imagine Malvina would be the most prone to lashing out at the one thing left) & I don't remember anything in the MWDA novels displaying that.

I mean, it's a fictional character created by someone other than me, and I can't speak to the headspace thereof, but for all of Malvina's sins, being abusive towards Cynthy to reach the conclusion in HotW is the hardest for me to accept.

This is exactly right. Thank you.

The whole point of Cynthy in Malvina's personal narrative is that she serves as a sort of "childhood do-over", where she could protect Cynthy from all of the things that made Malvina who she became. Never once pre-ER3145 did Malvina show even the slightest hint of abuse towards Cynthy. Granted, I'm not saying it was a healthy relationship, but it was certainly never abusive.

[Generalripphook]

Thats the whole thing about abusive relationships. No one notices them until boom its impossible not to.

Malvina was a volatile mess. I am not surprised that there was no one safe from her rage.

[tassa_kay]

Thats the whole thing about abusive relationships. No one notices them until boom its impossible not to.

Or until a writer decides to ignore previously-established characterization and make the relationship abusive.

[Generalripphook]

Did Malvina stop having ruthless rages? Did she stop being merciless and unreasonably brutal?

[tassa_kay]

Deleted. Not worth it.

[Generalripphook]

You're out, so I'll just apologize I did not mean to come off condescending.

[Sjhernan3060]

So, Falcons have never been my favorite Clan.  But I am EXCITED to see what happens with the remnants in the occupation zone, both the AML and Chistu's remnant.

The Nu falcons which I really enjoy as pluck underdogs are featured heavily in the new horses novel

[BrianDavion]

My problem is that I never found that claim to be believable.  I'm willing to believe that Malvina genuinely believed herself, but I don't accept that she had the self-control to actually insure that she never actually did anything to Cynthy.  Let's just say it's a common narrative with abusers and leave it at that.

Also even if she never hit Cynthy, that didn't mean the relationship wasn't abusive. It was blatently abusive. Malvina had no intreast in Cynthy as a person, she was a posession, a living doll, a THING to her.
so yeah even if Malvina never hit Cynthy it was emotionally abusive as hell

[Jal Phoenix]

I would have written Malvina's relationship with Cynthy in a completely different way. I'd have made Cynthy the one thing that Malvina loved, but being Malvina, it would be a poisoned love. Malvina would be doing all these horrible things, then going home to Cynthy and saying "look what I did for you, sweetheart". Poor Cynthy would know better than to provoke Mama's anger, so she just smiles and nods her head. Malvina is so overprotective and coddles her and keeps her safe. From everything. Cynthy never gets to live a life of her own. Malvina genuinely thinks Cynthy is happy. So, after Terra, when Cynthy uses that knife to take her own life in front of Malvina, it causes a pretty bad mental breakdown. I wouldn't kill Malvina, but save her for later.

But all of that arc was long before my time in yellow, and I'm just a freelancer and not a developer anyway, so it's all moot. Fun AU stuff.

[tassa_kay]

Also even if she never hit Cynthy, that didn't mean the relationship wasn't abusive. It was blatently abusive. Malvina had no intreast in Cynthy as a person, she was a posession, a living doll, a THING to her.

That's not quite accurate, but sure.

I would have written Malvina's relationship with Cynthy in a completely different way. I'd have made Cynthy the one thing that Malvina loved, but being Malvina, it would be a poisoned love. Malvina would be doing all these horrible things, then going home to Cynthy and saying "look what I did for you, sweetheart". Poor Cynthy would know better than to provoke Mama's anger, so she just smiles and nods her head. Malvina is so overprotective and coddles her and keeps her safe. From everything. Cynthy never gets to live a life of her own. Malvina genuinely thinks Cynthy is happy. So, after Terra, when Cynthy uses that knife to take her own life in front of Malvina, it causes a pretty bad mental breakdown. I wouldn't kill Malvina, but save her for later.

I mean, that's pretty much how their relationship was written until ER3145 started sliding into random physical abuse and BLP went full tilt.

[rebs]

I'm still waiting to find out Cynthy's true identity.

My bet is she's a scion of a House Steiner cadet branch, but was given too many heavy doses of involuntary psych meds akin to thorazine, along with brainwashing.  Now she can't remember to turn on a toaster, let alone her own identity.

[Scotty]

Can we just get a Malvina/Cynthy thread at this point?  It comes up within five posts literally every time someone makes a post in this thread even when it's not about that.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Seconded.

[MarauderCH IIC]

Thirded

[tassa_kay]

Can we just get a Malvina/Cynthy thread at this point?  It comes up within five posts literally every time someone makes a post in this thread even when it's not about that.

No one's stopping you from making one. Have at it.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I think Scotty's point was that they don't want to keep discussing it.

[Scotty]

Indeed.  Presently, I'd much rather be talking about how to paint the ****** feathers on the 1st Falcon Sentinels from anyone who's managed to pull it off.

[MarauderD]

Need some Jade Falcon lore/painting expertise mixed together here.

Gonna paint up some Falcons in the new Golden Talon scheme we see in the Alpha Strike Box set.  Plan is to make a quick, table ready binary.  Imperial Fist Yellow Contrast, and then some kind of green-gray layer paint for the trim.  My FLGS carries Citadel Color and Army Painter lines.  I don't have a greenish-gray in my paint kit yet, so I'll be picking up a bottle/pot.

Anyone with a good eye for color have a recommendation for that shade of green in the lines carried above?  I'm not color blind, but I don't have a good eye for fine distinctions in color. 

Cheers,

[Scotty]

Imperial Fist is really bright for that, I'd go with Nazdreg Yellow first.  The green looks like it's a pretty good match for either Militarum Green (contrast) or Castellan Green (traditional).

[tassa_kay]

Indeed.  Presently, I'd much rather be talking about how to paint the ****** feathers on the 1st Falcon Sentinels from anyone who's managed to pull it off.

That's fair. Maybe next time, you can start the conversation you actually want to have instead of rudely telling me to take my own thoughts (which are on-topic for this thread) elsewhere. Be the change you want to see.

[MarauderD]

Imperial Fist is really bright for that, I'd go with Nazdreg Yellow first.  The green looks like it's a pretty good match for either Militarum Green (contrast) or Castellan Green (traditional).

Thanks for the suggestions.  I find Contrast paints to be too thin for me to do trim or highlights with--they just run all over on me.  I'll go for the Castellan Green if it is in stock.  Also thanks for the Nazdreg Yellow suggestion.

Cheers,

[rebs]

That's fair. Maybe next time, you can start the conversation you actually want to have instead of rudely telling me to take my own thoughts (which are on-topic for this thread) elsewhere. Be the change you want to see.

Seconded. 

Talking about Falcon-related madness is entirely appropriate on the Jade Falcon thread.  Pretty reasonable to just post about other Falcon related items as well, instead of that other approach, lol...