Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard

[JAMES_PRYDE]

There was something I do remember reading in "Tamar Rising" I think, where Jiyi said "we will not be Wolf Lap dogs", but then that was (as discussed here) technically "before" Colonel's Baxter's mention.

But frankly, I do not see Jiyi Falcons (and himself for that fact) bending the knee to Alaric, maybe cordial / "diplomatic" dialogue at most

Stephanie did not mess up, that was all The Not Named Hazen

I do see mutual friendship and respect, as "we cannot afford to be at odds"

Interesting total twist would be Alaric totally making a mess of things, and Stephanie leaves and joins Jiyi lol (but unlikely)

For all intents and purposes, what is a better name for Jiyi's Falcons ? (Besides "Jiyi's Falcons) "Remnants" has such a negative vibe imho

Also, what would be the "official" logos for both Stephanie and Jiyi's Falcons ? I know the big Green traditional Jade Falcon, but for each of them, is the one from Tamar Rising official for Jiyi, and for Stephanie, some type of "Golden Talon" Keshik look, with a Blackwatch symbol / SLDF star in it ?

[Church14]

For all intents and purposes, what is a better name for Jiyi's Falcons ? (Besides "Jiyi's Falcons) "Remnants" has such a negative vibe imho

Also, what would be the "official" logos for both Stephanie and Jiyi's Falcons ? I know the big Green traditional Jade Falcon, but for each of them, is the one from Tamar Rising official for Jiyi, and for Stephanie, some type of "Golden Talon" Keshik look, with a Blackwatch symbol / SLDF star in it ?

Remnants is accurate. In universe, they are the shreds of a once potent clan. Survival of neither is guaranteed and a single big loss could be the end of them. There’s more surviving RAF than Falcons in May 3151. Remnants might feel negative, but that’s what they are. Only out of universe do we know for sure that Jiyi’s mob will survive.

As for logo: really, both should stick with the Jade Falcon logo. Stephanie Chistu is the Khan of the survivors of the Falcon touman, has the “legitimacy” as part of Alaric’s so called league. Why should she concede the Falcon logo to shreds in the OZ that won’t listen and obey? On the other side, IIRC Jiyi - correctly to me - recognizes Stephanie’s Falcons as little more than Clan wolf units. Why would he, the only Falcon leader left, give the Jade Falcon iconography to the wolves?

That said, if one must change, Jiyi altering the logo as part of ushering in a new Jade Falcon culture fits better.

[SeeM]

As for logo: really, both should stick with the Jade Falcon logo. Stephanie Chistu is the Khan of the survivors of the Falcon touman, has the “legitimacy” as part of Alaric’s so called league.

Did I missed something? Ilclan accepted Jiyi's touman as legit Falcons?

[Church14]

Did I missed something? Ilclan accepted Jiyi's touman as legit Falcons?

Not sure what I typed that made it read like that. The falcons on Terra under Stephanie Chistu have the ‘legitimacy’ of the backing of the Wolves and Alaric as ilclan. Jiyi’s falcons do not. So I don’t see Stephanie Chistu conceding anything to Jiyi on iconography or naming.

[BrianDavion]

Stephenie is the one with the greater legitimacy, having been elected Khan by the bloodnamed of clan jade falcon. Jiyi has VERY little legitimacy, and is a "self declared khan" there is a reason why he specificly did NOT use the rank of Khan when issuing a challange to clan ghost bear for the sibko cadets

[Scotty]

Jiyi's legitimacy stems from the ultimate source of all authority in the Clans: I said so, fight me about it.

Declining to call himself Khan is a calculated move designed to avoid pissing off someone who can beat him, like every political move a savvy Clan Warrior has ever made.

[BrianDavion]

Jiyi's legitimacy stems from the ultimate source of all authority in the Clans: I said so, fight me about it.

Declining to call himself Khan is a calculated move designed to avoid pissing off someone who can beat him, like every political move a savvy Clan Warrior has ever made.

well yeah obviously,

[SeeM]

Not sure what I typed that made it read like that. The falcons on Terra under Stephanie Chistu have the ‘legitimacy’ of the backing of the Wolves and Alaric as ilclan. Jiyi’s falcons do not. So I don’t see Stephanie Chistu conceding anything to Jiyi on iconography or naming.

I confuse Stephanie with Jiyi now. Apparently two Falcon clans are one too many for me.

[Generic Clanner 24601]

Is he? He claimed the falcons as his - which by clan custom is basically is right. Why would he treat Jiyi as anything resembling an equal. Unless Alaric’s been broken and decides cooperation and bridge building is his new thing, I see him demanding they fall in line behind “their Khan” Stephanie Chistu.

Jiyi and Stephanie’s interactions outside Alaric could be a cordial or even helpful one, but I see Alaric being a stressor to it

I meant that he might force a confrontation when Stephanie might be more focused on rebuilding her forces. I absolutely did not mean to suggest Alaric considers Jiyi (or anyone) his equal. That's just not his style.

There was something I do remember reading in "Tamar Rising" I think, where Jiyi said "we will not be Wolf Lap dogs", but then that was (as discussed here) technically "before" Colonel's Baxter's mention.

But frankly, I do not see Jiyi Falcons (and himself for that fact) bending the knee to Alaric, maybe cordial / "diplomatic" dialogue at most

Stephanie did not mess up, that was all The Not Named Hazen

I do see mutual friendship and respect, as "we cannot afford to be at odds"

Interesting total twist would be Alaric totally making a mess of things, and Stephanie leaves and joins Jiyi lol (but unlikely)

For all intents and purposes, what is a better name for Jiyi's Falcons ? (Besides "Jiyi's Falcons) "Remnants" has such a negative vibe imho

Also, what would be the "official" logos for both Stephanie and Jiyi's Falcons ? I know the big Green traditional Jade Falcon, but for each of them, is the one from Tamar Rising official for Jiyi, and for Stephanie, some type of "Golden Talon" Keshik look, with a Blackwatch symbol / SLDF star in it ?

I prefer:
Jiyi = Clan Jade Falcon
Stephanie = Blackwatch Falcon

Though if you want a non-biased version, I'll use Jiyi's Falcons. Appropriate since they are, at least right now, it is very much a Cult of personality. Without him, they wouldn't exist.

As for symbols, both will likely keep the standard Jade Falcon logo since both claim they are the legitimate Falcons. I could see the Blackwatch Falcons changing there's to reflect their duty as the Blackwatch.

Stephenie is the one with the greater legitimacy, having been elected Khan by the bloodnamed of clan jade falcon. Jiyi has VERY little legitimacy, and is a "self declared khan" there is a reason why he specificly did NOT use the rank of Khan when issuing a challange to clan ghost bear for the sibko cadets

That wasn't legitimancy. That was he didn't want the Ghost Bears target him or bid more than he can handle.

EDIT: Added in a few more responses to avoid double posting.

[Church14]

I meant that he might force a confrontation when Stephanie might be more focused on rebuilding her forces. I absolutely did not mean to suggest Alaric considers Jiyi (or anyone) his equal. That's just not his style.

Ah. Fair enough.

[MarauderD]

I forget the numbers at the end of the battle for Terra.  Stephanie Chistu's (Black Watch) Falcons couldn't have more than 1 or 2 clusters worth of Mechwarriors, Elementals, and Aerospace, correct?

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I forget the numbers at the end of the battle for Terra.  Stephanie Chistu's (Black Watch) Falcons couldn't have more than 1 or 2 clusters worth of Mechwarriors, Elementals, and Aerospace, correct?

Something like 120 warriors, walking wounded included IIRC

[Khalus Pryde]

There were 128 warriors—including wounded—left on Terra. That was before Stephanie Chistu fought and slew Tomaszewski Mattlov, so make that 127 Jade Falcon warriors left.

[Geg]

There were 128 warriors—including wounded—left on Terra. That was before Stephanie Chistu fought and slew Tomaszewski Mattlov, so make that 127 Jade Falcon warriors left.

That's on terra though.  Their a few in space and probably Mars (wounded), and then Chistu picked up another 2-3ish during no substitute for victory when she sent heralds into their old OZ to announce the coming of the ilClan.   Given the number of Falcon world and the limited operational scope of AML and Jiyi, they're probably a few 10s of warriors to collect that never made it to terra.

Not enough to strategically change anything, but enough for an author to summon a trinary into existence without diminishing the total count.

[Church14]

That's on terra though.  Their a few in space and probably Mars (wounded), and then Chistu picked up another 2-3ish during no substitute for victory when she sent heralds into their old OZ to announce the coming of the ilClan.   Given the number of Falcon world and the limited operational scope of AML and Jiyi, they're probably a few 10s of warriors to collect that never made it to terra.

Not enough to strategically change anything, but enough for an author to summon a trinary into existence without diminishing the total count.

Wouldn’t have been any on Mars. Every ground troop available would have been on Terra for the trial. The 127 wouldn’t include warship crews, but I’d wager all naval assets that could be deployed planetside were. I’d be shocked than any elemental marine or warship ASF escort stayed in space.

A planet in the OZ in HotW was shown with 2 mechs and no elementals or other assets. So a handful of warriors spread across the OZ, most collected by Jiyi, the Merchant Factor, and the Turkina Ascendancy. You’d maybe get a few people per planet for the old OZ worlds between Tamar and Terra. So maaaaybe 20-40 warriors tops? You’re right. A random star or trinary can appear, but no numbers that should affect the strategic map.

[Scotty]

There could definitely be a couple on Mars, there's at least one Falcon Galaxy that landed there and it's entirely possible for a pilot to have been shot down and survived but not been recovered.

That number is going to be tiny if it's greaterc than zero at all, but it's possible.

[Church14]

There could definitely be a couple on Mars, there's at least one Falcon Galaxy that landed there and it's entirely possible for a pilot to have been shot down and survived but not been recovered.

That number is going to be tiny if it's greaterc than zero at all, but it's possible.

Sixth Falcon Jaegers and the Ninth Falcon Talon. Just two clusters. They aren’t namechecked later in ilclan, but they are from Gamma Galaxy. Falcon’s Gamma was shown fighting in a few other locations.

Moreso, I think all Falcon troops on mats would have come for the ilClan trial. Malvina knew she was outnumbered, knew she needed every soldier. I find it hard to believe she didn’t empty everything she could to fight that fight. I’ve got good reason to assume that every Falcon warrior capable of fighting planetside was indeed planetside.

[Scotty]

Every Falcon warrior recovered and not MIA.  I'm not suggesting they'd have been left behind on purpose, but to suggest it's impossible that none could have possibly been missing for any reason is as much of a stretch in the other direction.

[Hellraiser]

Hello Falcon Fans,

I'm hoping you can assist me.

One of the few books I never got was the JFSB.

Even my current falcon sourcebooks (F&W, FM:CC, FM:U) are currently stored.

I'm looking for any added info about 2 Falcon Clusters that I can't pull off Sarna.

Code: [Select]

1st FALCON JAEGERS
3052 - PANDORA - ? - Lost Half Omnimechs & Many Elementals to GDL
3054 - LA GRAVE - ?
3057 - ? - ? - Refusal War?
3059 - DOMPAIRE - 5 Trinaries / 2 Aerospace
3079 - KONIZ - 100% OMNI


5th TALON
3052 - ? - ? -
3054 - LA GRAVE - ? -
3057 - ? - ? - Minor Damage Refusal War but Lost Strength to Reorganization
3059 - ? - 5 Binaries -
3079 - TRELL I - -50% - 40% OMNI

I'm looking to get a better feel for their Location, Strength, & Force Makeup in the 50's which is why I don't have anything from the RotS era above.

For example:
The Double ASF Trinary of the Jaegers is mentioned in 3059, but, did they always have 2 Trinary ASF?  OR,  Is that due to their losses on Pandora & Refusal War & then rebuilt as ASF Heavy?

The 5th Talon mentions losses to Reorg post Refusal War which would explain being only 5 binaries in 3059, so were they 5 Trinaries during revival?

I don't know, so I'm coming to you all :)

I'm specifically looking for JFSB material since I don't own that book at all, but, if you happen to have anything from other sources that I don't have access to at this time I'll take that too so I won't have to wait till I get them from storage.

Thank you all,

Much appreciated for anything you can help me clarify!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sorry to say neither of those units appear in the big phone directories in the second half of the JFSB.

[Hellraiser]

Sorry to say neither of those units appear in the big phone directories in the second half of the JFSB.

Well that's a bummer, I saw the data about facing the GDL during Revival & assumed that at least that cluster was in there :(

[truetanker]

Gyrfalcon Galaxy has some interesting things about where they were during REVIVAL, mayhaps there lies what you seek, Seeker, quiaff?

TT

[Hellraiser]

Gyrfalcon Galaxy has some interesting things about where they were during REVIVAL, mayhaps there lies what you seek, Seeker, quiaff?

I'm not seeing anything about that Galaxy for either of the 2 clusters I'm looking at sadly :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well that's a bummer, I saw the data about facing the GDL during Revival & assumed that at least that cluster was in there :(

Day of Heroes may have something in it that could be pertinent, as it was the 2nd of the GDL sourcebooks from back then and certainly covers the Pandora fighting IIRC. I don't remember it going too heavy on the Jade Falcon forces though.

[truetanker]

1st Jagers, Dompaire, Delta was there, follow Delta's history.

Same with 5th Talon, Babaeski, also Delta, follow their path backwards.

Also Wotan in 3050, entire Galaxy stationed there, pre-Jade Wolf conflict.

Looks like Maxie's Planet is the start of it all, reading the descriptions, sometimes it pays to backtrack every entered detail. (305th Assault)

But it's tedious...

TT

[Jal Phoenix]

Objective Raids p 31 seems to be the first appearance of these clusters. The 1st Falcon Jaegers are listed as part of Gamma Galaxy and are stationed on La Grave. The 5th Talon is part of Rho Galaxy and are on Toland.

[Precentor Scorpio]

Regarding the future of the Jade Falcons, I personally hope that the two "clans" of Falcons merge into one clan.  The Falcons that were left behind will create a viable empire and the Falcons that survive Terra will protect Alaric.  Eventually, the Jade Falcons in this new empire will provide the soldiers for the future Jade Falcon Black Watch.  An elite unit will eventually lose their status if the only thing they are allowed to do is train.  Having this Jade Falcon Empire provide combat opportunities to their soldiers will allow the Falcons to keep their warriors elite. 

[Angrii]

I will be massively disappointed if the Falcon factions merge. I'm excited to see the Remnant go in a new direction and provide some desperately needed innovation to Falcon culture.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I will be massively disappointed if the Falcon factions merge. I'm excited to see the Remnant go in a new direction and provide some desperately needed innovation to Falcon culture.

As mentioned in the forums before, perhaps one day all the Factions of the Hinterlands will be a new "Tamar Pact", where each faction is sovereign, but on the council and have a rotating leader or speaker ? Said Pact to protect the Hinterlands region, especially from the Horses, pirates, etc

As much as I would like to see the two combine, I think there is too much writing potential to have them do that in the immediate future. As current states, that the two have not even begun proper communication, just assumed knowledge of each other. And also they have a major bridge or gripe to mend, Jiyi "You are nothing but Wolf Lapdogs, the new Jade Wolves, we have our core territory, sikbos, our war machine pumping out baby Turkina's like mad"

Stephanie could react in a number of ways, from demanding he falls inline behind her (and Alaric), sympasize with how they survived and made a "new" Jade Falcon, wanting to reunite straight away, again lots of writing potential and 10 years (in universe) of ilClan Era time 

[Church14]

I would be disappointed if they join back up. I like the split in the falcons. AML isn’t personally engaging to me, but seeing three different paths in how Falcons come to terms with their greatest failure and with Malvina’s legacy is more engaging than “and then the falcons suffered 99% losses to their military, but rebuilt right back in the old OZ.”

Similarly, the Empire reuniting with Alaric is the least interesting path forward.