Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And on top of that, there's the inexorable, incurable brain damage that the implants needed to pilot Protomechs cause.  When you're already looking at a critical shortage of warm bodies for your military, something that's going to accelerate the rate at which you lose troops is the opposite of what you want.

[ColBosch]

And on top of that, there's the inexorable, incurable brain damage that the implants needed to pilot Protomechs cause.  When you're already looking at a critical shortage of warm bodies for your military, something that's going to accelerate the rate at which you lose troops is the opposite of what you want.

I'd say the final nail in the coffin is that the Falcons haven't manufactured ProtoMechs in nearly a century, so they'd still have to set up production lines for them. Why bother when you're the one faction in Inner Sphere history that is drowning in extra BattleMechs?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, they're in the unique position of having too many seats and not enough behinds to fill them, which is the exact opposite of basically the entire history of the Battletech Universe.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

If your concern is losing Warriors to wash out, you're still better served just letting them do another TOP.  Protos solved a problem for Smoke Jaguar and continue to solve a problem for the Horses and Ravens; that problem doesn't exist for the Falcons.  The only "problem" that Protos would solve for the Falcons is a cultural one for which the answer is not exclusively (or at all given their current state of zero infrastructure) protos.

I still have no idea what problem Protomechs supposedly solved that Shamash hovercraft, militia mech, beefed up battle armor or one of bug mechs couldn't have solved at fraction of time and resources

[JAMES_PRYDE]

They look cool, little mythological creatures running around 

And the advanced tech level involved and a new Nique. See "Elements of Treason" about the Hells Horses Protomechs

Originally were they not designed to replace vehicles ?

My argument for Falcons using, is more towards Stephanie's Forces, as they need all the numbers they can get

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No, originally, Protomechs were designed to replace conventional Battlemechs by the resource-strapped Jaguars.

And Stephanie's forces suffer from the same issue that Jiyi's do: lack of warriors.  They still have a lot of battlefield salvage plus Terra's factories to equip themselves from.

[Weirdo]

I still have no idea what problem Protomechs supposedly solved that Shamash hovercraft, militia mech, beefed up battle armor or one of bug mechs couldn't have solved at fraction of time and resources

More fun toys for the players.

[Metallgewitter]

No, originally, Protomechs were designed to replace conventional Battlemechs by the resource-strapped Jaguars.

And Stephanie's forces suffer from the same issue that Jiyi's do: lack of warriors.  They still have a lot of battlefield salvage plus Terra's factories to equip themselves from.

More like a willingness to accept Spheroid soldiers into their ranks. The same issue that currently hampers the Wolves on Terra. I mean in theory with all the RAf personel who did not leave Terra there should be enough bodies to fill at least a few clusters. Though if the Falcon are to become the new Blackwatch that might be another factor that hampers recruitment

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't think that there's going to be a very easy job to convince the RAF troopers that they should join the faction that destroyed the RAF.

[Weirdo]

Their best recruiting angle is probably gonna be "Daoshen Liao is coming."

[Church14]

Their best recruiting angle is probably gonna be "Daoshen Liao is coming."

They already used “Malvina will murder the planet.” The ones that weren’t going to sign up for that aren’t likely to sign up to hunt Capellans.

In the short term, that’s still their best option and it seems awful. Especially for the falcons, whose reputation is a bunch of mass murdering sociopaths even worse than the Wolfes. (It’ll be interesting watching falcons crawl out of that PR hole).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

They already used “Malvina will murder the planet.” The ones that weren’t going to sign up for that aren’t likely to sign up to hunt Capellans.

In the short term, that’s still their best option and it seems awful. Especially for the falcons, whose reputation is a bunch of mass murdering sociopaths even worse than the Wolfes. (It’ll be interesting watching falcons crawl out of that PR hole).

I suspect that there might be more than a few former RAF soldiers spiteful enough to be willing to sit back and watch Daoshen tear into Alaric.

[Church14]

Long term, Wolves should be able to recruit from Terra. But without a dead Alaric or Alaric suffering some character growth, are the Falcons and nuJags going to be allowed to?

nuJags theoretically have New Earth and a way to recruit. Alaric will have Terra. But Terran falcons are the worst off with no sibkos, no territory to conscript from.

This is one of the things I kind of expect iKEO to raise as an issue, but the followup will really answer.

[Generic Clanner 24601]

There's also nothing that states that aerospace phenotype warriors can't pilot mechs.  And on top of everything else it isn't even certain if Jiyi has any aerospace phenotypes in his forces.  The sibko program on Sudeten was disrupted by Malvina's tantrum on the planet, and he wasn't going to get any in the Bear cadets he absconded with because the Bears never bothered adopting that phenotype.

I mean it is unlikely pilot is going to pass TOP for mechwarrior when they failed what they were brought up as, though it could be an interesting idea that they receive a crash course training in a "what do we have to lose" sort of situation. Honestly, that would be kinda cool.

I'm sure he has ASP. There would have been solahma of them too and it mentions in AQoS that his Jumpship scrambles fighters during their escape (I just read that chapter preparing for Wednesday). Even if he doesn't, the sibkos still exist (albiet, they won't be usable for another 5+ years or so).

Not going to respond to the other points, because I don't have much to say other than good point (the point in this post were good too, I just had something other to say to it). Like I said, I don't think it is likely, just a possibility. Though Money reminding of the implants and damage they cause knock it down to 1-2% (and only then because I'm stubborn).

Long term, Wolves should be able to recruit from Terra. But without a dead Alaric or Alaric suffering some character growth, are the Falcons and nuJags going to be allowed to?

nuJags theoretically have New Earth and a way to recruit. Alaric will have Terra. But Terran falcons are the worst off with no sibkos, no territory to conscript from.

This is one of the things I kind of expect iKEO to raise as an issue, but the followup will really answer.

Honestly, I think both might be screwed. Though the Falcons intentionally so. Pretty sure Alaric basically said he wants the Falcons to stay a tiny Clan. I don't think he cares about their Bloodnames surviving. If they become Blackwatch 2.0 and have anyone good enough in the entire Inner Sphere join them, he'd be just happy or even happier. He mainly sees them as a trophy.

The Wolves problem comes into Alaric's arrogance and seeming indifference that the Wolf Empire is going through. If they say "screw it, we're on your own anyways," well, suddenly, he doesn't have sibkos either.

[Metallgewitter]

The Falcons have Tara Campbell in their ranks. She might become something of a poster child for recruiting Terrans into the ranks of the Clan forces. The Wolves also had I think 1 or 2 Galaxies made up mostly of freeborns from the League and Commonwealth. So it can happen. Though probably not with the currently fresh wounds (espcially with how the Falcons treated RAF troopers that surrendered) Though as end result you can always say that the Clans will not look like Clans in the long term should they not be able to populate their ranks with new trueborns. If they have no sibkos with them on Terra it will take at least 16 years to have the first new batch of trueborn recruits available (unless the scientists put in some growth accelerators). And every Clan warrior that dies fighting the Capellans is another dilution of a "trueborn SLDF". In the end it might really come to the "absorption" of the victorious Clans by Terra by the simple fact of population disparity. 10 billion vs a couple of thousands? Plus there is no time for say "proper indoctrination" as the IlClan has no breathing room except that 1 year the wall granted.

[BrianDavion]

it's hard to say, sure maybe Tara will become a celebrated face that manages ot make intergration with the clans more acceptable, but it's just as likely she's viewed disdainfully as a Quisling

[Church14]

The Falcons have Tara Campbell in their ranks. She might become something of a poster child for recruiting Terrans into the ranks of the Clan forces. The Wolves also had I think 1 or 2 Galaxies made up mostly of freeborns from the League and Commonwealth. So it can happen. Though probably not with the currently fresh wounds (espcially with how the Falcons treated RAF troopers that surrendered) Though as end result you can always say that the Clans will not look like Clans in the long term should they not be able to populate their ranks with new trueborns. If they have no sibkos with them on Terra it will take at least 16 years to have the first new batch of trueborn recruits available (unless the scientists put in some growth accelerators). And every Clan warrior that dies fighting the Capellans is another dilution of a "trueborn SLDF". In the end it might really come to the "absorption" of the victorious Clans by Terra by the simple fact of population disparity. 10 billion vs a couple of thousands? Plus there is no time for say "proper indoctrination" as the IlClan has no breathing room except that 1 year the wall granted.

Tara as a recruiting tool is like an alternate WW2 where General Montgomery joined the Germans during the blitz, the Germans won, and now they use Monty to convince Brits to help Germany conquer the world. Thats about the closest analogue I can give.

Long term, Tara might help the reputation of the Falcons, but the concern is in the short term. Falcons under Malvina were monsters, and all of the surviving ones were party to some of those atrocities. They should be pariahs in universe who receive no quarter for a very long time. Them recruiting meaningful numbers of Terrans in the next year seems extremely poor.

Dont get me wrong. I want to see what the Terran falcons do. They’re much more interesting than the Terran wolves.

And Wolves didn’t raise 1-2 galaxies. They raised seven. In two years. An entire house frontline army just out of nowhere. It’s one of those BS plot points used to help them power like a super saiyan to attack Terra. I can’t see CGL writing a repeat.

[CJC070]

Tara as a recruiting tool is like an alternate WW2 where General Montgomery joined the Germans during the blitz, the Germans won, and now they use Monty to convince Brits to help Germany conquer the world. Thats about the closest analogue I can give.

Long term, Tara might help the reputation of the Falcons, but the concern is in the short term. Falcons under Malvina were monsters, and all of the surviving ones were party to some of those atrocities. They should be pariahs in universe who receive no quarter for a very long time. Them recruiting meaningful numbers of Terrans in the next year seems extremely poor.

Dont get me wrong. I want to see what the Terran falcons do. They’re much more interesting than the Terran wolves.

And Wolves didn’t raise 1-2 galaxies. They raised seven. In two years. An entire house frontline army just out of nowhere. It’s one of those BS plot points used to help them power like a super saiyan to attack Terra. I can’t see CGL writing a repeat.

One of the short stories “Chaos Theory” does show the Falcons are still a little sociopathic and right now they only see Tara Campbell as more of a poster child than an actual warrior.  Personally I see the Highlanders bearing a grudge against the Falcons. 

Maybe this is me but I see Terra becoming a hot potato where every few months someone invades it becomes the next “IKhan” until a new upstart comes in or even rises from the ranks.

[Church14]

One of the short stories “Chaos Theory” does show the Falcons are still a little sociopathic and right now they only see Tara Campbell as more of a poster child than an actual warrior.  Personally I see the Highlanders bearing a grudge against the Falcons. 

Maybe this is me but I see Terra becoming a hot potato where every few months someone invades it becomes the next “IKhan” until a new upstart comes in or even rises from the ranks.

I really need to get my hands on a copy of that short story. Didn’t buy AS box, so haven’t seen it

[MarauderCH IIC]

I'd say the final nail in the coffin is that the Falcons haven't manufactured ProtoMechs in nearly a century, so they'd still have to set up production lines for them. Why bother when you're the one faction in Inner Sphere history that is drowning in extra BattleMechs?

Protomechs are only available to the Jade Falcons in the Civil War era. They just aren't using them anymore.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Finished ‘Without Question’ I can look in the Falcon thread again :)

No spoilers without tags…. But Clan Spaniel has a throwaway line :)

Enjoyed it!

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I laughed at the passage about the opera about Morgan Kell and Yorinaga Kurita.  Honestly, there should be more references to stuff like that in the canon.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Just finished "Without Question"

Enjoyed it too 

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

it's hard to say, sure maybe Tara will become a celebrated face that manages ot make intergration with the clans more acceptable, but it's just as likely she's viewed disdainfully as a Quisling

I really hope Tara just tries to up and get out of dodge with other RAF survivors in IKEO. She has spent the last 20+ years fighting against the Clans to defend the Republic. She has zero reason to want to work with them whatsoever, dum-dum reasons in HOTW notwithstanding. Also, she's in her 40s, she's been a warrior for longer than most Falcons have, to have her be seen as a poster-child of anything is just dumb mischaracterization.

She got done dirty.

[Generic Clanner 24601]

Just commenting that I also finished and enjoyed Without Question.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Just commenting that I also finished and enjoyed Without Question.

When can we start commenting / discussing ?

[Gaiiten]

When can we start commenting / discussing ?

In the Sourcebook and Novel section it has already begun.

Using Spoiler would be appreciated, either.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

When can we start commenting / discussing ?

Spoiler tags are ‘generally’ until a two to three weeks after kinda deal at least IMO. They’re may be a forum rule about it? I know Sarna generally has its moratorium period although not 100% on hownlon g that is (three months? Six?)

If you want to comment: spoiler tags! If you’re not sure: spoiler tags! If it’s been three years…. Youre good.

[Sartris]

no rules for spoilers but it's a common courtesy everyone should exercise for recent releases in threads not explicitly about that release.

Sarna's moratorium on new materials is two months

[tassa_kay]

There's already a thread for discussion for it, too.