The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

[Wrangler]

Wasn't point of the ProtoMechs was they could be made economically?  All the  lans bagged the technology. Only fundamental problem with them is what they have to do to make pilots.

The Empire should be able keep these machines in touaman. 

[Doc Swift]

I've covered this before. ProtoMechs went extinct because they require additional production lines and advanced considerations to put them into the field. It could be as simple as every surgeon who knew how to implant circuitry into human bodies died or was left in the Homeworlds. Just like it's unknown how ancients built the pyramids or other structures from antiquity, Imperials wondered how ProtoMech pilots got their circuitry implants. But diverting resources better spent on BattleMechs and battlesuits was the motivation for allowing them to go extinct (see SO: Hellion Keshik, page 3).

[wantec]

I've covered this before. ProtoMechs went extinct because they require additional production lines and advanced considerations to put them into the field. It could be as simple as every surgeon who knew how to implant circuitry into human bodies died or was left in the Homeworlds. Just like it's unknown how ancients built the pyramids or other structures from antiquity, Imperials wondered how ProtoMech pilots got their circuitry implants. But diverting resources better spent on BattleMechs and battlesuits was the motivation for allowing them to go extinct (see SO: Hellion Keshik, page 3).

The Ancients didn't build the pyramids, that was the Go'auld.

ProtoMechs came from when the Jaguars had a high tech-level industrial base, but not a lot of resources. Once the Scorpions got to their new home they had many resources, but not the high-tech industrial base.

[Doc Swift]

They had territory. That isn't the same as having resources. Either way, building the industry consumes resources. The same holds for creating new factories and production lines to build different unit types. With the ability to manufacture advanced materiel on their Hephaestus-type station, building PMs would have been possible, but at the cost of resources that could instead be used to build 'Mechs and battlesuits. So it was indeed the Khan's refusal to devote resources to the effort.

[glitterboy2098]

hopefully proto's will continue to see use with at least some factions (Hells Horses and Ravens for example.) for that matter i could see the new ilkhanate/star league adopting them as a way to maximize combat power (sure the wolves inherited Terra and fortress republic, but not exactly intact, and they now have to police an inner sphere nearly a thousand times their size.. and do it without reliable HPG's. so massive increase in sibko production and use of proto's to fill out the forces of the "elite" units seems reasonable to me.)

[BrianDavion]

The Ancients didn't build the pyramids, that was the Go'auld.

ProtoMechs came from when the Jaguars had a high tech-level industrial base, but not a lot of resources. Once the Scorpions got to their new home they had many resources, but not the high-tech industrial base.

joking aside, the process by which the Pyramids where built is pretty well understood TBH.

[MDFification]

joking aside, the process by which the Pyramids where built is pretty well understood TBH.

Well understood yes, but nobody's been motivated to build their own for quite some time. I assume that if the Scorpions decided protomechs were a priority, they could recreate them within a decade or two's worth of effort. But it's unlikely - protomechs were invented not because they're a good idea in an of themselves, but to solve a resource scarcity problem. The Scorpion Empire doesn't have that problem, so they don't need that solution.

[BrianDavion]

Well understood yes, but nobody's been motivated to build their own for quite some time. I assume that if the Scorpions decided protomechs were a priority, they could recreate them within a decade or two's worth of effort. But it's unlikely - protomechs were invented not because they're a good idea in an of themselves, but to solve a resource scarcity problem. The Scorpion Empire doesn't have that problem, so they don't need that solution.

yeah pretty much, what clans remaining use protos? the hells horses  and snow ravens are pretty much it yeah?

[glitterboy2098]

pretty much, yeah. and the nova cats did as well before they got almost wiped out. (no idea if any survived to make it to the Clan Protectorate)

i'm not sure where the Sea Foxes stand on protomechs. though i have no doubt that they could start producing them if anyone wanted to buy them.

that said, iirc onyl the Jade falcons are actively anti-protomech, the Ghost bears just never had the aerospace phenotype they were designed to be piloted by, and the wolves just decided not to invest in them.

(the biggest users of proto's had been the homeworld clans, the remainder of which presumably are still using them. but with no current information, they're effectively non-entities)

[CJC070]

i'm not sure where the Sea Foxes stand on protomechs. though i have no doubt that they could start producing them if anyone wanrted to buy them.

It makes you wonder if the Sea Foxes will go directly into the mercenary trade but I doubt they got into the Prototech since it is a niche market that few outside the CHH or RA have any interest in.  I doubt the Wolf Empire will invest in it unless the Smoke Jaguars still have the prototypes in their possession. 

[pat_hdx]

The whole protomech argument is all highly subjective.  It comes down to author fiat.  It is real odd that you had mechs getting armed with protomech AC8s because they made it a point to bring lots of them to Castillians space if they didn't want to restart production of them later.

As for the resources, there is zero reason they could not have brought all the tooling with them and kept them in mothballs, till the time was right.

Another thing that bothers me about it, is that the Crimson Seekers book made a point of highlighting the role of an elite protomech pilot, so we start developing our home brew units in that direction, and then poof, they get zapped. I don't blame the second author for having a different vision, that happens..I do think the editing team and the developers dropped the ball not splitying the difference because as a consumer it's not cool to get your chain yanked like that.

I think the developers and editors should have protected the flovour of the faction as set out in ISP3, so as to keep the direction of things. One of the other users (Wierdo?) Was talking about how they had a good excuse to get their Legacy mini in  with the unit direction set out in ISP3 and Crimson Seekers ...it would be a heck of a let down to paint up a Cluster or two worth of mechs and Protos and then find out that the the next era RAT and MUL availability completely switched up directions.

[Starfury]

It happens. The Raven Alliance, Hell's Horses and the Homeworld Clans will simply have to carry the Protomech torch boldly into the IlClan era.  The Seekers managed to keep the original Crockett and the Flashman available to me alongside Clan Awesomes, Toyamas, and the Banshee 3S. The Clan Castilian Hanseatic Helion Goliath Scorpion Ummayid Star Leauge Word of Blake Empire can shine on like the crazy diamond it is.

[Drewbacca]

Silly question, where is the most up to date listing of the Scorpions military organization?

[Deadborder]

Silly question, where is the most up to date listing of the Scorpions military organization?

OTP: Hanseatic Crusade has listings of the Scorpion and Hansa forces before the Crusade, but we don't have a list for their current state

[Drewbacca]

OTP: Hanseatic Crusade has listings of the Scorpion and Hansa forces before the Crusade, but we don't have a list for their current state

Yeah I figured that was the most recent. Hopefully we will get an update soon. Might have been nice to add to Touring the Stars: Braunschweig

[Sartris]

touring the stars have very strict word counts and formatting

[Doc Swift]

They're also not focused on militaries.

[Doc Swift]

OTP: Hanseatic Crusade has listings of the Scorpion and Hansa forces before the Crusade, but we don't have a list for their current state

A new Galaxy was noted in the ilClan Recognition Guide series. (I might have mentioned it somewhere else, too. Perhaps in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik.)

[Drewbacca]

Yeah but it would be nice to get an update.

[Doc Swift]

Sure, but most people would hate whatever I came up with.

[Weirdo]

So if Protos are out, what are the uniquely Scorpion ways of playing combined-arms? We've got the air assault fighter/Elemental groups, and the specialist command stars, what else is there?

And what about mixed tech? We've got Clan stuff, Blakist stuff, Hansa IS Standard, IS Intro, and even some armed IndyMechs, but in which units will that stuff be found? It seems fair to assume the front-line Galaxies will be mostly Clan with a smattering of higher-level IS, but where would the rest of it be found?

[Wrangler]

I wonder if ultralight Mechs could fill the void for protomechs.  Such like the Emerald Harrier/Road Runner. 

[Doc Swift]

And what about mixed tech? We've got Clan stuff, Blakist stuff, Hansa IS Standard, IS Intro, and even some armed IndyMechs, but in which units will that stuff be found? It seems fair to assume the front-line Galaxies will be mostly Clan with a smattering of higher-level IS, but where would the rest of it be found?

Hellion Keshik employs a nice mix of IS and Clan battlesuits. I'm not certain, but it might be the first time some of those suits have appeared in the same formation.

[Weirdo]

Aside from some BA-centric merc units, you might be right.

[Drewbacca]

One thing I would recommend, changing the name of the position of ZARKhan.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

It's probably a contraction of Czar/Tzar/Tsar, so Zarkhan makes sense.

An Empire needs an Emperor.

[DarkISI]

It also follows the established naming pattern of the Clans. ilKhan, saKhan, ovKhan, reKhan...
"Zar" is also how you spell the word in German. So it is not completely made up. ;)

[Drewbacca]

Yeah, but I am sure there are other words for emperor you could use as a base rather than czar.

[Drewbacca]

And emperor in German is Kaiser.

[Sartris]

Quibbling over already published word choice is rarely a fruitful endeavor