The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ooh, eye candy!

That is a creamy-smooth sandy tan base, and I love the contrast of the subdued purple cockpit canopies. My eyes can't tell, are those very dark brown panels or black highlighted with brown? Very well done!

[Weirdo]

Looks awesome. Needs more Protos, though. 

The Protos are in a separate mixed star, with my collection consisting of three mixed Points, plus two Points of Undine (Upgrade) for long range support. That's the heavy Star in what is otherwise an Elemental Trinary.

Ooh, eye candy!

That is a creamy-smooth sandy tan base, and I love the contrast of the subdued purple cockpit canopies. My eyes can't tell, are those very dark brown panels or black highlighted with brown? Very well done!

The panels are actually a dark gray with a black wash. :)

[Wrangler]

Weirdo, that Composite Star from Beta Galaxy looks really sharp!  Amazing!  I extra care to detail and accents. 

[Nerroth]

Bargained well and done!

As an aside: I could certainly picture the Scorpions housing a museum on Braunschweig, in which they display 'Mechs and/or other units in the colour schemes of "lost" Galaxies from the pre-Abjuration days, and/or of those Galaxies that have since been re-branded (such as from Chi to Seeker) by the onset of the IlClan Era.

[Mendrugo]

One aspect I'm not entirely sure about, however: the report of the Scorpions opening an old Hansa trading post on Oberon VI.

I hadn't been entirely aware of the Hansa setting up trade posts as close to the Inner Sphere as this prior to the Clan Invasion. But, given how hostile the Empire has been towards "dezgra" pirates in recent years, the bigger surprise for me is that they would establish trade in the midst of what is generally considered to be a "pirate" realm.

But then, it's possible that this data is at least partially incorrect, and that the new trade post is on another world in the region instead?

The facility in question appeared in canon in a BattleCorps story decades ago.  That followed an earlier story set in the late 2900s where the Jarnfolk were trading Botany Bay industrial sand to Sigurd.  So both groups have histories in that region.

[glitterboy2098]

worth noting that "pirate realms" usually aren't being run by pirates, they're just weaker states that either are friendly to pirates because they bring an influx of wealth for the economy, or are nominally anti-pirate but either so corrupt or weak as to be unable to prevent pirates from operating in their territory.
the Scorpions opening up trade relations with Oberon Confederation might well be part of an anti-piracy policy.. trade with the Empire might easily serve to replace the economic influx that pirates normally provide, and the Oberon VI garrison and the escorts of the trade convoys would easily bolster the military power of the confederation enough to make a purge of at least some of the pirate groups viable. especially if those same trade routes would be natural targets for pirates, which would give the empire an excuse to bypass the official government and take out any pirate band brave enough to try and hit them.

[DOC_Agren]

Bargained well and done!

As an aside: I could certainly picture the Scorpions housing a museum on Braunschweig, in which they display 'Mechs and/or other units in the colour schemes of "lost" Galaxies from the pre-Abjuration days, and/or of those Galaxies that have since been re-branded (such as from Chi to Seeker) by the onset of the IlClan Era.

I can totally see this..  not just clan units either both other historical important ones.

[Colt Ward]

This. Totally agreed. Protos are add an unnecessary extra layer to the logistics burden, require a higher technology base, and are a waste of pilots given the short life expectancy of the EI system. The waste averse Clans will phase it out as soon as they can.

Proto pilots service life (10-15 years) is no shorter than the average Clan mechwarrior's service life and quite possibly double the Elemental's service life.

Protos also offer a better choice for offensive operations than vehicles, and before the widespread resumption of their use filled that role among Clans that left vehs to second line.

Their logistical burden was minimal - they use the same secondary weapons as Clan mechs and vehs (med & small lasers, SRMs & LRMs), and the armor.  Unlike many of the Clan vehicles that would be used, they do not take the same fusion engines mechs might require.  They are also easier/faster to redeploy than vehs.

Their removal from factions has been arbitrary.  I look forward to hearing of Raven Protos riflstomping Capellan forces.

[Weirdo]

I think it's even longer than 10-15? I remember doing the math a while back based on the rules in AtoW, and an aero phenotype character with an average WIL score that didn't die by violence or other external cause could reasonably expect to live into their 40s, after getting the EI implants at age 18.

The big thing is that aerospace-phenotype characters take damage at one-third the rate of anyone else.

[Gorgon]

That's a surprisingly long shelf life. From a Clan Warrior perspective, there are very few downsides to being a Proto pilot, then. Sure, you'll likely get few Proto Khans or Loremasters but those are about the only jobs where can you be expected to stay relevant past your forties.

[tassa_kay]

And while we never got proper RPG stats for them, I'm certain that the Blood Spirits' ProtoMechWarrior phenotype probably made EI even less of a detriment (otherwise, what was the point?), and surely the Scorpions would've had ample opportunity to acquire it (in an alternate universe where their Protos weren't arbitrarily taken away from them).

[Colt Ward]

I think it's even longer than 10-15? I remember doing the math a while back based on the rules in AtoW, and an aero phenotype character with an average WIL score that didn't die by violence or other external cause could reasonably expect to live into their 40s, after getting the EI implants at age 18.

The big thing is that aerospace-phenotype characters take damage at one-third the rate of anyone else.

I was just sort of going off sibkos graduation since 2-4 years would be taken up with implants during training.  And that their reliability, as seen in the Scorpion and Horse vs CapCon stories, might be in question.

[glitterboy2098]

the scorpions giving them up while they were settling into the Neuva Castille/Ummayid Caliphate space made soem sense.. they were starting from a pretty weak industrial base there, and it was a major uphill battle for them to get proper mechs built at all. while protos offer some resource use advantages, they do require a fairly mature industrial infrastructure, which the Scoprions didn't have at the time.

the hansa are far more industrially capable though, even without all the aid that the WOB had given in upgrading stuff. which si why the scoprions were able to get full on, highly advanced clan omnis built so soon after taking over hansa space. which suggests that if they want to explore protomechs again, they'll have the resources to do it.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Proto pilots service life (10-15 years) is no shorter than the average Clan mechwarrior's service life and quite possibly double the Elemental's service life....

Mech pilot does 10-15 followed by 10-15 as second line/garrison/solahama followed by (if they chew through emo phase) 10-15 years as cops/drill sergeants/watch

Even longer now in the Empire when warriors are expected to switch to new assignments/castes after aging out

And they don't need a entire medical team 24/7 to keep them running

Also mech pilots don't randomly go postal

Proto pilots just have those 10-15 before they either fizzle out or be so ramshackle that they can barely operate a radio (source: Dying Breed from Shrapnel Magazine)

Protos also offer a better choice for offensive operations than vehicles, and before the widespread resumption of their use filled that role among Clans that left vehs to second line....

Scorpions never fully removed vehicles from frontline service, they still use original unit setup laid out by Nicolas

It's not a lot of vehicles but they had them there

Their logistical burden was minimal - they use the same secondary weapons as Clan mechs and vehs (med & small lasers, SRMs & LRMs), and the armor.  Unlike many of the Clan vehicles that would be used, they do not take the same fusion engines mechs might require.  They are also easier/faster to redeploy than vehs.....

They do however require separate production lines which was a big issue after abjuration and in early years of new Imperio

And unlike vehicles protomechs were not compatible with new freeborn troops which they now had in abundance and which needed new rides fast and in huge quantities

To say nothing of oddity of having a Clan which specializes in resource extraction and processing adopting a platform which was created to bypass shortage of resources

.....
the hansa are far more industrially capable though, even without all the aid that the WOB had given in upgrading stuff. which si why the scoprions were able to get full on, highly advanced clan omnis built so soon after taking over hansa space. which suggests that if they want to explore protomechs again, they'll have the resources to do it.

Scorpions did start building omnis just before the Crusade, Snow Fox and Warhawk for example

Restoring ability to build them was a signal that they were now ready for frontal conflict

[JAMES_PRYDE]

That being said, why is the Warhawk exclusive to Scorps now ?

[Colt Ward]

Mech pilot does 10-15 followed by 10-15 as second line/garrison/solahama followed by (if they chew through emo phase) 10-15 years as cops/drill sergeants/watch

And they don't need a entire medical team 24/7 to keep them running

Also mech pilots don't randomly go postal

Proto pilots just have those 10-15 before they either fizzle out or be so ramshackle that they can barely operate a radio (source: Dying Breed from Shrapnel Magazine)

Scorpions never fully removed vehicles from frontline service

Lol, no . . . a Clan trueborn generation is five years.  It means that most of the touman has turned over by that point, even grant the average is brought down by Elemental combat life expectancy vs MechWarriors you still have as Weirdo pointed out around 21 years of possible operation.

Btw, some warriors never get into a Frontline unit, so trying to separate out their time froneline-secondline is a false dichotomy.  Secondline vs garrison depends on the Clan or period, but you can have a separation there during certain periods IMO.

Solahma, they are beyond their service life.  A very very small percentage of warriors among the Clans survive to that point and would IMO still not count for service life.  They have been dismissed by the Clan and are poorly equipped- often time only with infantry weapons..  If test downs go on to other positions in the Clan, that is also beyond service life.

A proto warrior will be serviceable to the Clan for the same length of time as a MechWarriors or aero pilots, likely longer than a Elemental (higher combat losses/turnover).

The only Clan to maintain conformity to Kerensky 's cluster design was the Spirits.  The Scorpions followed the general Clan trend, with combat vehicles (vs APCs) relegated to secondline formations usually.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Lol, wut?

Every single lore source hammers it home that protomech pilots have the shortest shelf life of all by far and are riddled with health and psychological problems from the moment they get implants installed

Only way for proto pilots to get anywhere close to any other phenotype's lifespan and especially service life is to never sit in the protomech and to spend whole career in hospital room where they could be pampered by doctors so they don't go on the fritz

If proto pilots where like you described them there would have been no Elementals anymore since they would have been supplanted by protomechs century ago

[Colt Ward]

Lol, wut?

Every single lore source hammers it home that protomech pilots have the shortest shelf life of all by far and are riddled with health and psychological problems from the moment they get implants installed

What source?

The one you cite- a single story with the Protowarriors cut off from support.  But that is after that Proto warrior had been in service for 20 years makes the opposite of your point.

Weirdo cited the RPG rules, Proto pilots take EI damage at 30% the rate as any other user.

The Snow Ravens have a Bloodnamed Star Colonel using a Hippogriff to win their Bloodnamed.

The other story I mentioned, also from Shrapnel, featured a Horse cluster with a trinary of Protos ripping the Cappies and discussed how some got more reckless as time went on.

Finally, for the purposes of this discussion there is a massive difference between service life and lifespan in definition.  But Clan warriors do NOT have a long lifespan anyway, they rarely live into their 40s- either a Bloodnamed officer or a survivor that is culturally rejected.  Which is ironic since they would be the superior warrior.

Protos in now way replace BA, instead for a cluster they would replace most vehicles- VTOLs, very high speed scout hovers, or APCs are going to be roles they cannot replace.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

That being said, why is the Warhawk exclusive to Scorps now ?

After Jaguars got annihilated Scorpions were among the Clans which controlled the production line on the Huntress which was the only place where they were built at the time

It's how Scorpions got schematics, experience and accumulated their stockpile of Warhawks which they took with them on exile after Wars of Reaving which is also when only source of Warhawks was cut off from rest of the civilization

They also grew to really love Warhawk because it perfectly fits into their doctrine (heavy armor, energy weapons, targeting computer, doesn't handle autocannons too well anyway...)

Warhawk is also very complex and expensive mech, other factions didn't need to restore production because they both had factories for existing models and also preferred to build factories for their own newly designed omnimechs instead of investing in restoring production of older mech

Scorpions however were different story because they were starting from scratch and once they they reached the phase where they needed to decide which expensive fancy assault omnimech factory they want to build they simply picked their favorite one in the weight class AKA Warhawk


TLDR: Unlike other factions who already had factories the Scorpions were building assault omnimech factory from scratch anyway and they decided it would be a Warhawk factory

[glitterboy2098]

Scorpions did start building omnis just before the Crusade, Snow Fox and Warhawk for example

Restoring ability to build them was a signal that they were now ready for frontal conflict

was referring more ot how they were able to debut a pair of omnimechs that, while adapted from captured IS schematics for standard mechs, would have had to have been heavily redesigned to be turned into cutting edge clantech omnis. the warhawk was them getting an existing unit set up for production, which seems likely to have involved at least partial tooling they brought with them. the Snow Fox being omnified is impressive, but it is very possible they already had the tooling for the standard version.

my point is that when they took over the Ummayid and castillian worlds, they were so industrially limited that a lot of their output was armed industrialmechs, because the locals didn't really have much better. they improved it greatly, but their output was still fairly low if you remember.
from the point they took the hansa worlds to the point they debued their all new omnis a small fraction of the time by comparison. suggesting they've now got not only an industrial base in high gear and quickly adaptable to making full clantech, but science and technician castes able to work at full tilt to turn out very sophisticated stuff in fairly fast time.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Yeah, Hanseatic industrial base has been a big prize, it's stated in books too

Workforce as well not just for arms industry but for rebuilding and growth overall, indentured servants of Hansa saw transfer to laborer caste as an upgrade which it definitely was

As for scientists and technicians Scorpions already had those castes in place and ready to go, there was a big push in education for locals immediately after founding the Imperio, it's how they were able to start building new HPGs on Valencia

Just to clarify there is only one omnimech developed from IS schematics that we know of, the Star Crusader

Star Python is standard battlemech

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Mech pilot does 10-15 followed by 10-15 as second line/garrison/solahama followed by (if they chew through emo phase) 10-15 years as cops/drill sergeants/watch

Even longer now in the Empire when warriors are expected to switch to new assignments/castes after aging out

And they don't need a entire medical team 24/7 to keep them running

Also mech pilots don't randomly go postal

Proto pilots just have those 10-15 before they either fizzle out or be so ramshackle that they can barely operate a radio (source: Dying Breed from Shrapnel Magazine)



Scorpions never fully removed vehicles from frontline service, they still use original unit setup laid out by Nicolas

It's not a lot of vehicles but they had them there



They do however require separate production lines which was a big issue after abjuration and in early years of new Imperio

And unlike vehicles protomechs were not compatible with new freeborn troops which they now had in abundance and which needed new rides fast and in huge quantities

To say nothing of oddity of having a Clan which specializes in resource extraction and processing adopting a platform which was created to bypass shortage of resources

This. Unless they solve the EI side effects, Protos are a dead-end. Their higher tech and manufacturing base means the Empire is better off fielding mechanized/conventional Galaxies with their massive population pool in situations not requiring Mechs just like the SLDF's Infantry/Mechanized/BattleMech divisional deployment doctrine.

Economically, conventional crews can enjoy life outside of duty and boost the economy of their garrison area. Socially, the Empire creates more jobs for more people and mitigates high unemployment rate. Proto pilots need a black hole of resources for life support and PM maintenance.

[tassa_kay]

Proto pilots need a black hole of resources for life support and PM maintenance.

This keeps getting repeated, but there's nothing in canon that substantiates it. And the fact that the resource-poor Blood Spirits, among many other Clans who aren't exactly rolling in material wealth, were able to not only make Protos work but innovate with them kind of makes the opposite case. Plus, as has already been noted, the Scorpions aren't strapped for resources, so this doesn't even matter to begin with.

In the Scorpions' case, the only reason they aren't still fielding Protos is because their current writer personally dislikes them and consequently went to great lengths to remove them from the faction using flimsy-at-best logic. I know these forums enjoy trying to headcanon themselves in-universe reasons to account for out-of-universe decisions, but let's be intellectually honest and just call a spade a spade here.

Personally speaking, I think removing Protos from one of the only three active factions that has them (not counting the Home Clans for obvious reasons) was a bad decision. Taking away player options will never sit well with me, when the alternative could've been "if you don't like 'em, don't use 'em". Especially in the context of the Scorpions literally throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the field these days.

Besides, if the Scorpions were able to magically conjure up (read: author fiat) working HPGs in an era that's literally been defined by no one having them, I don't see why they couldn't just magically conjure up a solution to the side effects of long-term EI implantation. All it would take would be Scorpion scientists refining the Spirits' ProtoMechWarrior phenotype and voila, problem solved. Took me two seconds to come up with that.

[Nerroth]

There was talk in a recent YouTube interview that there might be some sort of effort to adjust the ways in which ProtoMechs function at the Total Warfare scale of play, prior to the appearance of these unit types in forthcoming force packs. If so, what, if anything, that could then mean for ProtoMech use in Alpha Strike remains to be seen.

That said, if given the choice of new and/or old unit types for the Scorpions to be granted in the IlClan Era, my first preference would be for them to gain access to QuadVee technology from Clan Hell's Horses. QuadVees can be operated by freeborn and Trueborn crews alike; and while the Goliath Scorpions are not quite as renowned for combined arms operations as the Horses - to include their estranged Stone Lion sibkin - are, this concept is not entirely foreign to them either. Plus, this would expand the number of known QuadVee-using factions from one to two.

-----

As per Voidbreaker:

There are only vague references to a transmission from the Scorpion Empire, which provided an old Terran Hegemony data archive to the Clan Sea Fox researchers looking into the problem in the Inner Sphere and near Periphery. No word is made as to what led to this archive being supplied. And, critically, it appears that the Sea Foxes have yet to discover that the Empire has functioning HPGs; otherwise, would they not have stated as such?

Beyond this, when Clarion Note was activated, the combination of effects spread across the full extent of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery network - both in terms of effecting the band of hyperspace frequencies used to transmit HPG signals, as well as installing the virus that has persisted in scrambling the targeting system needed to send a signal where it is supposed to go. While the "fix" developed by Tucker Harwell resores some HPG functionality, it's clear that the "new normal" of HPG communications in the restored areas means that HPG functionality will never quite match what had been possible prior to the Blackout.

While not stated outright, one could infer a few things:

One - the isolation of the Imperio's HPG network in 3132 prevented it from suffering the immediate effects of the Blackout.

Two - the "affecting hyperspace" side of Clarion Note appears not to have had an impact on the expansion of the Scorpion HPG network thus far.

Three - the "embedded targeting virus" side of Clarion Note has not been spread to the Scorpion HPG network either, at least not to date.

Four - the Scorpion network presumably still operates on the "old normal" (pre-Blackout) standard, as opposed to the "new normal" which Tucker Harwell's "fix" enables in terms of HPG functionality.

And five - the Terran Hegemony archive transmitted to the Sea Foxes is, or at least was, in the Scorpions' possession for... some length of time..

However, this raises a number of questions:

a) As the Scorpions expand their network closer to Terra - or rather, if they attempt to build an HPG in a system that had already been impacted by the "hyperspace band" portion of Clarion Note - would they have to adjust the new HPGs to match?

b) Should there be a point at which the Scorpions attempt to link up their HPG network to that being restored by the Sea Foxes, would there then be a risk of the lingering HPG virus - which no-one appears to be able to remove from the current crop of affected HPGs - then spread to the Scorpion network?

and c) If either or both of the above are true, would the Scorpions need to gain access to the Sea Fox "fix" - and, thus, find their network capability to be reduced down from the "old normal" to the "new normal" in the process? Or have the Scorpion scientists and technicians already "done their homework", in terms of drawing from the old Hegemony data files in order to help "Blackout-proof" their new-build HPGs going forward?

All this said, It still feels like there is another novel - or, at least, a short fiction piece - to be told, so as to portray the Scorpion side of all of this. Or, at least, I hope that we might see such a story being published by CGL someday...

[Gaiiten]

So it is an expanding hyperspace bubble including a virus?

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

This keeps getting repeated, but there's nothing in canon that substantiates it. And the fact that the resource-poor Blood Spirits, among many other Clans who aren't exactly rolling in material wealth, were able to not only make Protos work but innovate with them kind of makes the opposite case. ....

The very-much-dead Blood Spirits learned the hard way that protomechs are exceptionally poor platform for waging interstellar wars

...Plus, as has already been noted, the Scorpions aren't strapped for resources, so this doesn't even matter to begin with.....

Which is exactly why they have no impetus to waste time on protomechs when battlemechs are available

In the Scorpions' case, the only reason they aren't still fielding Protos is because their current writer personally dislikes them ....

Very 4chan style argument

and consequently went to great lengths to remove them from the faction using flimsy-at-best logic. ....

Logic is rock solid: availability of resources and superior platforms

Personally speaking, I think removing Protos from one of the only three active factions that has them (not counting the Home Clans for obvious reasons) was a bad decision. Taking away player options will never sit well with me, when the alternative could've been "if you don't like 'em, don't use 'em". Especially in the context of the Scorpions literally throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the field these days. ....

Like you said, it's personal opinion

Other people hold opinion that it was excellent decision

Besides, if the Scorpions were able to magically conjure up (read: author fiat) working HPGs in an era that's literally been defined by no one having them....

Was ComStar magically conjuring up Star League grade battlemechs before Tukkyid also author fiat?

I don't see why they couldn't just magically conjure up a solution to the side effects of long-term EI implantation. All it would take would be Scorpion scientists refining the Spirits' ProtoMechWarrior phenotype and voila, problem solved. Took me two seconds to come up with that.

There are plenty of other factions available for that conjuring up

Scorpions don't need to have literally everything and the kitchen

Have some other factions have protomechs, preferably ones for which it would be in character

Jaguars, Foxes, Falcons (x2), Wolves and Bears are available to say nothing of Capelans and their infinite amount of disposable servitors

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

 

There was talk in a recent YouTube interview that there might be some sort of effort to adjust the ways in which ProtoMechs function at the Total Warfare scale of play, prior to the appearance of these unit types in forthcoming force packs. If so, what, if anything, that could then mean for ProtoMech use in Alpha Strike remains to be seen.

That said, if given the choice of new and/or old unit types for the Scorpions to be granted in the IlClan Era, my first preference would be for them to gain access to QuadVee technology from Clan Hell's Horses. QuadVees can be operated by freeborn and Trueborn crews alike; and while the Goliath Scorpions are not quite as renowned for combined arms operations as the Horses - to include their estranged Stone Lion sibkin - are, this concept is not entirely foreign to them either. Plus, this would expand the number of known QuadVee-using factions from one to two
...

Absolutely this, hard agree

QuadVees would be excellent addition for Scorpions and would fit the new doctrine perfectly

Quality platforms for garrison units and perfect harassers for Touman which is how regular vehicles are already used there

Plus mountain of pilot candidates and ease of transport in vehicle slots

Notos is one that would be blockbuster with Scorpions

-----

I won't quote spoiler stuff for brevity sake but we already know the reason why Scorpion HPGs are immune to Gray Monday, it's because they use redesigned HPGs they developed in order to fit the local resource base (Spotlight On Hellion Keshik) so whatever took out HPG grid wasn't compatible with modified HPGs the Scorpions now had

It was a fortunate coincidence

[Gaiiten]

Would the Scorpions be a possible ally for the Hells`Horses?

[tassa_kay]

Very 4chan style argument

It's something said author has said on these very forums, so I'm not sure why you CONSTANTLY have to resort to these condescending responses and ad hominem personal attacks.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Would the Scorpions be a possible ally for the Hells`Horses?

Don't see why not, they are reasonable proximity, they had no beefs with each other and the few interactions they had since WoR have been by the book

If Horses snap out of their current Crusader phase (if they haven't already with the whole ilClan thing being done deal) it would definitely speed things along