Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[glitterboy2098]

Wasn't there a couple times where they attacked the Decepticon's Space Bridge to get to Cybertron? I think there were a couple other attacks to rescue someone or stop the Decepticons from using something.

i think those would count as "reactive".. they're responding to something going on, usually trying to prevent a decepticon plot-in-the-forming, or dealing with an issue that is not immediately decepticon related but ends up with their involvement.

i know in beast wars there was a little bit of proactive stuff going on, but not a lot. mostly just sneaking into the predacon base to steal intel or parts, and searching the planet for clues to the various mysteries it held. even the maximals didn't usually go out of their way to hunt predacons or go on the attack.. no matter how much dinobot urged that. (and given how his plans usually failed, they were wise to ignore them.)

[HABeas2]

i know in beast wars there was a little bit of proactive stuff going on, but not a lot. mostly just sneaking into the predacon base to steal intel or parts, and searching the planet for clues to the various mysteries it held. even the maximals didn't usually go out of their way to hunt predacons or go on the attack.. no matter how much dinobot urged that. (and given how his plans usually failed, they were wise to ignore them.)

I dunno, though. We saw what could happen when Dinobot went full bot-hunter on the Preds during his last stand. Can you imagine how much more effective that could have been if he got backup?

Either way, yeah, the standard approach for Autobots seems to be--almost regardless of continuity--to either wait for the Cons to make a move, then counter it, or to execute stealth missions...often in response to something the Cons did...

So, if I want to describe a major combat action where Autobots are on the offense, and still evoke the right sense of Transformers nostalgia, I need to get just a bit more creative.

...which I think I can do.

- Herb

- Herb

[RifleMech]

In every case I can think of for all of the above, those actions tended to be small-scale and in direct response to something the Cons had just done to them. But no big, iconic fights started by Autobots; nothing like the 'Con assaults on Autobot City, or strategic resource claims like the seizure of power plants and dams. The Autobots always acted on the defensive, waiting for the enemy to make the first move, rather than hitting them first.

- Herb

i think those would count as "reactive".. they're responding to something going on, usually trying to prevent a decepticon plot-in-the-forming, or dealing with an issue that is not immediately decepticon related but ends up with their involvement.

i know in beast wars there was a little bit of proactive stuff going on, but not a lot. mostly just sneaking into the predacon base to steal intel or parts, and searching the planet for clues to the various mysteries it held. even the maximals didn't usually go out of their way to hunt predacons or go on the attack.. no matter how much dinobot urged that. (and given how his plans usually failed, they were wise to ignore them.)

So counter attack and counter raid but they don't launch the initial attacks themselves. Except for stealing intel and energon cubes.

[idea weenie]

Hey, do you know what could be even funnier? For the life of me, I can't think of even ONE time the Autobots went on the offensive; every action they seem to have made was defensive or reactive, not proactive. I mean, I suppose it's that old saw about how "the good guy never starts the fight" trope, but...wow. Anyone else notice that?

- Herb

One person compared Transformers to an isekai (where a person is put into another world, and they have to show who they really are, like Buck Rogers).  In this case Autobots were put into a world and their reaction was to protect and let the locals take the lead.  The Decepticons also had a chance to get a fresh start, and went straight to the theft/domination role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au602osClyY

[Luciora]

"I was a Cybertronian living in the 80s, but then got dropped into the middle ages!"

They forgot that episode already?

[idea weenie]

"I was a Cybertronian living in the 80s, but then got dropped into the middle ages!"

They forgot that episode already?

In the case of Transformers, it is a case of going from a high-tech society with autonomous robots, to being on a planet with poor industry and inhabited by organics that need a wide variety of perishable raw materials (can't store apples for as long as you can store steel ingots).

So in that episode it was a double isekai for Autobots Hoist, Warpath, and Spike, vs Decepticons Starscream, Ramjet, Ravage, and Rumble. 

[Luciora]

Herb, could we amend some units, with the newly released minis?  (This means I may have to redo some  :P)  like Roadbuster being a Wheeled Scout (BT-466)  or Kup being a Prime Mover (BT-465).

[HABeas2]

Herb, could we amend some units, with the newly released minis?  (This means I may have to redo some  :P)  like Roadbuster being a Wheeled Scout (BT-466)  or Kup being a Prime Mover (BT-465).

That's quite a bit of shrinkage for Road Buster there. I had him at 75 tons for the sheer size of him. Hmmm. Kup is a little closer, and I'm pretty sure we won't find a better fit, so, he's good.

Thinking the whole "Sneaker" line will get Scout and/or Prime Mover vee modes as well.

- Herb

[Luciora]

Or how about alternative type shenanigans, to reflect different portrayals from the different series and movies?  Roadbuster being a heavy and a light type, unless that's too much background work. 

[HABeas2]

Or how about alternative type shenanigans, to reflect different portrayals from the different series and movies?  Roadbuster being a heavy and a light type, unless that's too much background work.

Not the first time on my list that's happened, so let's say....

Dozer class is 40 tons, and currently uses the Apollo Mech form, with vehicle forms that run the gamut from Flatbed truck to Coolant Truck. How does that feel?

- Herb

[Luciora]

It can be chalked it up to lazy programming or corrupted programming from damage or spaghetti code  ^-^

[HABeas2]

It can be chalked it up to lazy programming or corrupted programming from damage or spaghetti code  ^-^

Definitely. But if our goal is two different forms of Roadbuster, I'm good with simply giving him two units. The heavy one is the Wolverine/Typhoon, and the lighter one is Apollo/Scout?

- Herb

[Luciora]

Sounds good to me!

[HABeas2]

Sounds good to me!

(Cool! Because, full disclosure: I have been working on a scene that actually uses our heavy version of Roadbuster!)

- Herb

[RifleMech]

I don't know why there couldn't be multiple AutoMechs with different weights. There's lots of Mechs already that already do that. It could be an upgrade that needed a larger size or maybe a smaller size is needed. It could even be a new design going from FC to SF Engine.

[HABeas2]

I don't know why there couldn't be multiple AutoMechs with different weights. There's lots of Mechs already that already do that. It could be an upgrade that needed a larger size or maybe a smaller size is needed. It could even be a new design going from FC to SF Engine.

There are lots of chassis designs, but the AutoMechs don't often copy the personas. As we (almost) saw in "Endless Loop (Part 2)", Star Seeker was in the process of being transplanted into a new body, rather than simply having itself built whole and digitally copied. Related units may also have the Code-Bonded or Team-Bonded Traits, which *could* be signs of a duplicated persona going into multiple chassis types.

Anything can happen, really, if you want it to, but I'm tending toward "one persona/one frame." Roadbuster and Starscream may be   my first multi-frame personas, although even then, they'll get different names. (Starscream = Star Seeker and Lordstar Seeker; Roadbuster = Road Wrecker and ... hm... Path Dozer!) I suppose, though, you could say I've done even more, if you count that I have Megatron and Galvatron coexisting, along with Cyclonus and Scourge with at least some of the named Seekers they were made from.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

when writing up the Aximals i considered hinting that the base OS used comes with various 'personality subroutines' that can be uploaded when the automech is built. which give the same baseline starting points to the new AI, which then evolves over time as they experience things, creating different individuals.
this was to help explain why "Optimum Primate"* the leader of the Aximals is so similar to "Primus Optimal" the leader of the AutoBoP's. they're both using the same base AI personality model, but with different chassis and experiences.



*i seriously considers naming him "primate principo" but i figured the name similarity would be better than a schlock mercenary reference. :)

[HABeas2]

when writing up the Aximals i considered hinting that the base OS used comes with various 'personality subroutines' that can be uploaded when the automech is built. which give the same baseline starting points to the new AI, which then evolves over time as they experience things.
this was to help explain why "Optimum Primate " the leader of the Aximals is so similar to "Primus Optimal" the leader of the AutoBoP's. they're both using the same base AI personality model, but with different chassis and experiences.

Certainly possible. The OS used by the Barony of Primus and Axilum Management & Logistics could easily be the same one, coded by the same development team.

- Herb

[HABeas2]

Giovanni! Sorry to take this out of PMs, but I can't seem to figure out any way to post images to you in the forum DMs. Hope this isn't too "spoilery" or anything.

This tweaked map gives you the site you were looking for where that old THAF fire base could have been found, based on your descriptions to me. I'll note again: That site lies outside the current active borders as of 3120-3150. It *may* have been part of the AutoBoP lands at some point, but whether or not it was should be immaterial. It's in no-bot's-land now.


- Herb

[Giovanni Blasini]

Giovanni! Sorry to take this out of PMs, but I can't seem to figure out any way to post images to you in the forum DMs. Hope this isn't too "spoilery" or anything.

This tweaked map gives you the site you were looking for where that old THAF fire base could have been found, based on your descriptions to me. I'll note again: That site lies outside the current active borders as of 3120-3150. It *may* have been part of the AutoBoP lands at some point, but whether or not it was should be immaterial. It's in no-bot's-land now.


- Herb

Dude, that's perfect.  Thank you so much.  :thumbsup:

[RifleMech]

There are lots of chassis designs, but the AutoMechs don't often copy the personas. As we (almost) saw in "Endless Loop (Part 2)", Star Seeker was in the process of being transplanted into a new body, rather than simply having itself built whole and digitally copied. Related units may also have the Code-Bonded or Team-Bonded Traits, which *could* be signs of a duplicated persona going into multiple chassis types.

Anything can happen, really, if you want it to, but I'm tending toward "one persona/one frame." Roadbuster and Starscream may be   my first multi-frame personas, although even then, they'll get different names. (Starscream = Star Seeker and Lordstar Seeker; Roadbuster = Road Wrecker and ... hm... Path Dozer!) I suppose, though, you could say I've done even more, if you count that I have Megatron and Galvatron coexisting, along with Cyclonus and Scourge with at least some of the named Seekers they were made from.

- Herb

Makes sense. I was thinking about how there's a number of similar vehicles but they're still different that aren't clones. Inferno and Hot Spot. First Aid and Ratchet. Springer (Helicopter) Whirl, Blades. Warpath and Blitzwing (Tank). If they need a bigger or smaller AutoMech for their needs would't they make one?

[idea weenie]

The other reason MechaTankus might get angry is that a professor of logic programmed his minion-bots, rather than a military specialist

Still, Groundwave might meet another Transformer and get along nicely with her.  Especially if her chassis was designed and built by the Furai subcontractor.  Not that heavily armored (just under 50% of capacity), no ranged weapons, but two small Vibroblades with a set of AES in all four limbs mean she is much more nimble and dangerous than others might expect.

Here is a rough design of her:

Code: [Select]

Chassis designation Windblade
Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 175 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
2 * Small Vibroblades
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: N/A
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 3,166,335 C-bills

Type: New
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 35
Battle Value: 628

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  3.5
LAM Conversion Equipment                            3.5
Engine                        175 Fusion              7
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5 (LL, RL, RT, LTx2)
AirMech Cruising MP: 15
AirMech Flanking MP: 23
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Heat Sink                     10                      0
LA, CT, RA
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  56                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            11        7     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               8         7     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  1     
     R/L Arm                 6         5     
     R/L Leg                 8         6     

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                      Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Actuator Enhancement System      LL        1        -       1.0   
Actuator Enhancement System      LA        1        -       1.0   
Vibroblade                       LA        1        -       3.0   
Actuator Enhancement System      RL        1        -       1.0   
Actuator Enhancement System      RA        1        -       1.0   
Vibroblade                       RA        1        -       3.0   
Illegal items: Actuator Enhancement System

Design rules posts that I have found (or been provided):
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/gryphon-mirage-class-wheeled-syberian-automechs-looking-for-some-help/msg1836559/#msg1836559


Herb, in your spreadsheet listing the various designs (most recent one found here), can you add a tab listing the rules for creating the Syberians?

[HABeas2]

Makes sense. I was thinking about how there's a number of similar vehicles but they're still different that aren't clones. Inferno and Hot Spot. First Aid and Ratchet. Springer (Helicopter) Whirl, Blades. Warpath and Blitzwing (Tank). If they need a bigger or smaller AutoMech for their needs would't they make one?

That's definitely possible. The sheer variety of chassis types and the variability of the programmed personas, which are meant to learn and self-modify over time (to a point), makes it easily likely--and, over a long enough timeline, inevitable--that you'll get just similar mind/different bodies approach. But, as with humans, the experience of the machines and their physical gifts are what will define them after that. As Glitterboy suggested in the case of Primus Optimal, Silverback, and likely Primal-C (another Optimus Primal configuration I added to the list), all three of those machines--and possibly others--got the same base OS and persona programming, and since then have adapted to their experiences and the abilities of their alternate forms.

- Herb

[HABeas2]

The other reason MechaTankus might get angry is that a professor of logic programmed his minion-bots, rather than a military specialist

Possibly. But considering how effective the DemCons are (they ARE still winning on Syberia, if you track that by the size of their controlled territories), I'm guessing that they had SOME decent tactical programmers on staff that day.

Still, Groundwave might meet another Transformer and get along nicely with her. 

I currently have her as "Sky Blade" and she is a Seeker model, like Star Seeker. ;)

Especially if her chassis was designed and built by the Furai subcontractor.  Not that heavily armored (just under 50% of capacity), no ranged weapons, but two small Vibroblades with a set of AES in all four limbs mean she is much more nimble and dangerous than others might expect.

Here is a rough design of her:

Code: [Select]

Chassis designation Windblade
Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 175 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
2 * Small Vibroblades
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: N/A
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 3,166,335 C-bills

Type: New
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 35
Battle Value: 628

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  3.5
LAM Conversion Equipment                            3.5
Engine                        175 Fusion              7
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5 (LL, RL, RT, LTx2)
AirMech Cruising MP: 15
AirMech Flanking MP: 23
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Heat Sink                     10                      0
LA, CT, RA
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  56                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            11        7     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               8         7     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  1     
     R/L Arm                 6         5     
     R/L Leg                 8         6     

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                      Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Actuator Enhancement System      LL        1        -       1.0   
Actuator Enhancement System      LA        1        -       1.0   
Vibroblade                       LA        1        -       3.0   
Actuator Enhancement System      RL        1        -       1.0   
Actuator Enhancement System      RA        1        -       1.0   
Vibroblade                       RA        1        -       3.0   
Illegal items: Actuator Enhancement System

Design rules posts that I have found (or been provided):
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/gryphon-mirage-class-wheeled-syberian-automechs-looking-for-some-help/msg1836559/#msg1836559

... Whoa! That's pretty close to at least one variant configuration I gave her sister-bot, an expy of Stiletto I've named "Poinard". And you did it without having to hack the rules as I did.

Herb, in your spreadsheet listing the various designs (most recent one found here), can you add a tab listing the rules for creating the Syberians?

How would you feel about a full sourcebook called TRO: Syberia that includes construction rules and backdrop information on the factions and everything? Because I'm working on THAT as we speak.

But if you're in a rush, attached are the full Syberia rules as they stand now.

- Herb

[idea weenie]

I currently have her as "Sky Blade" and she is a Seeker model, like Star Seeker. ;)

... Whoa! That's pretty close to at least one variant configuration I gave her sister-bot, an expy of Stiletto I've named "Poinard". And you did it without having to hack the rules as I did.

Unfortunately, she is still illegal as I used LAM tech (10% of mass) instead of Conversion equipment (15% of mass).  As a 35-tonner she still needs 1.75 tons more allocated to conversion equipment, and the earliest that I can fit 15% Conversion Equipment with the listed equipment and armor is at 50 tons.

(A decent upgrade for her would be trading out one Small Vibroblade for 3 Medium Lasers to give her some ranged combat ability, but that didn't fit with her 'style')

Code: [Select]

Chassis designation Windblade
New Mek

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 250 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
2xSmall Vibroblade
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 4,959,500 C-bills

Type: New
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 827

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    5
LAM Conversion Equipment                            5.0 (plus another 2.5 tons allocated to Cargo, to a total of 7.5 tons between cargo and LAM equipment)
Engine                        250 Fusion           12.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5 (LTx2, CT, RTx2)
AirMech Cruising MP: 15
AirMech Flanking MP: 23
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  72                    4.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            16        10   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               12        8     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 8         6     
     R/L Leg                 12        9     

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                      Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Actuator Enhancement System      LL        2        -       1.5   
Actuator Enhancement System      LA        2        -       1.5   
Actuator Enhancement System      RL        2        -       1.5   
Actuator Enhancement System      RA        2        -       1.5   
Vibroblade                       LA        1        -       3.0   
Vibroblade                       RA        1        -       3.0   


[HABeas2]

Unfortunately, she is still illegal as I used LAM tech (10% of mass) instead of Conversion equipment (15% of mass).  As a 35-tonner she still needs 1.75 tons more allocated to conversion equipment, and the earliest that I can fit 15% Conversion Equipment with the listed equipment and armor is at 50 tons.

(A decent upgrade for her would be trading out one Small Vibroblade for 3 Medium Lasers to give her some ranged combat ability, but that didn't fit with her 'style')

And yet that was EXACTLY how I statted her! 8) Only she got a single Medium Vibroblade and 3 ERMLs (I didn't use the Actuator Enhancement System, as the Syberians never developed it [post-3060 tech].) Admittedly, I was using her Cyberverse incarnation as my inspiration, and she only uses one blade there, most of the time.

- Herb

[Giovanni Blasini]

What’s funny is that I kept trying to stat Windblade out as a VTOL AutoMech and failing miserably, but let’s face it, her alt form has a lot in common with a Karnov or Cobra VTOL.

[HABeas2]

What’s funny is that I kept trying to stat Windblade out as a VTOL AutoMech and failing miserably, but let’s face it, her alt form has a lot in common with a Karnov or Cobra VTOL.

But at heart she was still a jet. Those rotors in her wings are almost superfluous. Thrust has them too, for instance, and he's DEFINITELY Seeker-type. And when you take into account that aerospace fighters have VTOL by default nowadays, well... why make her a VTOL at all when the aerospace fighter is just as good?

- Herb

[RifleMech]

That's definitely possible. The sheer variety of chassis types and the variability of the programmed personas, which are meant to learn and self-modify over time (to a point), makes it easily likely--and, over a long enough timeline, inevitable--that you'll get just similar mind/different bodies approach. But, as with humans, the experience of the machines and their physical gifts are what will define them after that. As Glitterboy suggested in the case of Primus Optimal, Silverback, and likely Primal-C (another Optimus Primal configuration I added to the list), all three of those machines--and possibly others--got the same base OS and persona programming, and since then have adapted to their experiences and the abilities of their alternate forms.

- Herb

That's cool. :)

How would you feel about a full sourcebook called TRO: Syberia that includes construction rules and backdrop information on the factions and everything? Because I'm working on THAT as we speak.

But if you're in a rush, attached are the full Syberia rules as they stand now.

- Herb

I'd love to have that TRO.  :thumbsup:

Thanks :)

But at heart she was still a jet. Those rotors in her wings are almost superfluous. Thrust has them too, for instance, and he's DEFINITELY Seeker-type. And when you take into account that aerospace fighters have VTOL by default nowadays, well... why make her a VTOL at all when the aerospace fighter is just as good?

- Herb

When I first thought about stating Thrust and Windblade I used Industrial Structure so they'd be conventional fighters and then added in VTOL Equipment. Going with them as aerospace fighters, their big wing thrusters just get fluffed as older equipment. Although I have considered using Rotors so they can hover and move about in Fighter Mode like a VTOL. Battletech doesn't really cover that aspect of aircraft too well. We can build Harrier's we just can't operate them.

[Daryk]

You can hover an ASF if you really want to... I just don't recommend it.