Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[RifleMech]

The only surface naval vessels available as minis (from the BT line, anyway) are the Sea Skimmer and the Monitor. If I'm willing to look into hover-vehicles (many of which have a quasi-naval look), I open the field a wee bit more. And I have multiple submarine units already.

Hmm. That isn't a lot of choices. :(

Fluff-wise, it wasn't really gravity that killed either of those units. The Scorpion LAM didn't work because the transformation system simply wouldn't balance right and/or just wouldn't work at all--something that two attempts, centuries apart, failed to work out--while the Champion LAM showed excess stress to both the joints and the jets due to mass (again, not weight, but mass; in space, the problem would have likely been just as bad). But, then again, why am I arguing this, when I have the Syberians here violating all KINDS of transformation limitations?

- Herb

If I remember right, the Scorpion LAM couldn't fly. It converted in the bay but it just couldn't get enough thrust from it's jump jets to get lift or something.  Of course in space lift isn't a problem.  Weren't the Champion's myomer's fraying or something? In addition to the slow thrust from the jump jets? Either way mass would still be an issue in space but lack of gravity would help. A lot of exercises are done in pools because the buoyancy helps the joints. Wouldn't zero g also help?

Grand Titan LAM????

Would be interesting. :)

Okay, then....

A new AutoMech--currently the only transforming surface BoatMech--just for you guys:

(snip)
Enjoy!

- Herb

Very Cool!  :thumbsup:

[HABeas2]

Hmm. That isn't a lot of choices. :(

Well, to be fair, there aren't a lot of boat Transformers, which should be little surprise, as much of TF's canon have Cybertron being devoid of water.

If I remember right, the Scorpion LAM couldn't fly. It converted in the bay but it just couldn't get enough thrust from it's jump jets to get lift or something.  Of course in space lift isn't a problem.  Weren't the Champion's myomer's fraying or something? In addition to the slow thrust from the jump jets? Either way mass would still be an issue in space but lack of gravity would help. A lot of exercises are done in pools because the buoyancy helps the joints. Wouldn't zero g also help?

The Scorpion LAM's key paragraph is thus:

While the ’Mech was able to transform on a gantry in a testing
facility, in the field it simply collapsed while attempting to convert to
AirMech or fighter modes. A frustrated design team decided to send
the design out in AirMech mode and demonstrated that it could
transform back into BattleMech form in the field, albeit with little
grace. Empowered by this small victory, the team pressed onward,
but ultimate success eluded them. Even when the Scorpion could
convert into another mode, its jump jets could not generate enough
force to create lift. Brigadier’s testing division even attempted to airdrop
one of the prototypes from a shuttle, to see if it could manage
sustained flight in its fighter configuration. While the ’Mech did not
fall like the proverbial brick, neither did it perform anything that
could have been considered flight. After something of a controlled
decent, its pilot ejected 300 meters from impact, and the LAM
crashed into a rocky outcropping on the test fields.

Stat-wise, it suffered from the Non-Functional Item (Conversion System) Trait to reflect this factor, which basically covers the system's inability to provide that boost in power LAM jump jets receive to achieve actual Thrust-grade acceleration. If kept to its canon, a Scorpion LAM would probably work like a normal Jump Jet-equipped BattleMech in space.

As to the Champion LAM:

Next they tested the prototype’s ability to transform
while stationary, and were encouraged to see the craft achieve
relatively smooth transitions between fighter and BattleMech with
only minor manual adjustments required between modes.

The disappointment came when it was time for the Champion
LAM to take flight. After launching in fighter mode, the pilot quickly
noticed that the LAM’s turns were sluggish. The on-board diagnostics
and remote viewing could not find a problem during the maiden
flight, so the pilot successfully landed after just a few minutes airborne.
Further analysis of the footage and the Champion discovered that the
larger jump thrusters that were required for a ’Mech of the Champion’s
size struggled to meet the maneuvering needs for combat flying,
and made for a poor substitute for the dedicated engines of a true
fighter. Left as is, the Champion LAM would be an easy target in the
air, even for an LAM. Worse, after-flight servicing reports found signs
of extreme wear on the conversion equipment, especially in the hip
and waist assemblies, and a few frayed myomer bundles and power
feeds that suggested the potential for catastrophic failure from
repeated transformations. Though the Champion LAM successfully
flew, landed, and transformed, its capabilities in all three respects in
battle—or even over a short round of routine non-combat patrols—
were questionable, at best.

Attempts were made to use lighter jump jets to achieve thrust,
but those jets failed to produce enough power to keep the LAM aloft
or achieve stable, sustained flight. After a few test pilots were injured,
that fix was abandoned and other solutions were proposed. Outfitting
the jump jets with additional motors to move them worked, but
required so much additional mass that the Champion would have
to dump additional weapons to accommodate those changes—and
that change still did not rectify the structural weakening caused by
conversions. With the entire project going nowhere and stock prices
falling amid news of a spectacular crash caught on tri-vid, Bergan
Industries finally canceled the Champion LAM project, and shipped
its remaining prototypes to their storehouses on New Dallas.

Again, we see failure in the jets to get as much power as they should have on paper, as well as needing "only minor adjustments" after transformations, and the underlying structural weakening of conversions, which would still be a mass issue. Reflecting this again with the Nonfunctional Conversion System Quirk. It's hinted that one COULD fix the problem by increasing the conversion gear mass, though, so... hmmm. (No, Herb; that way lies madness!)

Anyway, as to the buoyancy of water equating to the vacuum of space in cancelling out weight, it doesn't really work that way. Being surrounded by water on all sides actively slows you down because the water around you actively counters some of your mass. In space, there's nothing at all doing that. NASA more or less uses water training to get astronauts used to low grav walking (which tends to force one to hop about for short distances), and for reinforcing the sense of slow-motion one has to do in space in order to avoid too much inertia. Apparently, astronauts in space COULD try and move faster than they often seem to, but they do so at the risk of spinning out of control by actions as simple as raising their arm at the wrong moment. Strap rockets on your feet and back, and raise the total mass of your body and limbs to 60 tons, and you'll probably only magnify such problems by a couple orders of magnitude or so. (BTW, myomer musculature is actually part of the whole actuation system, so frayed muscles can be just as debilitating to a 'Mech's actuator as any blown joints.) Throw in the fact that you can spend half your time in a form where your thrust approaches four gees of acceleration, and inertial effects probably compound this matter enough to compromise the actuators and myomers of giant walking robots.

The bottom line: For whatever reason, the materials science of the BT universe can't deal with the strain of transforming 'Mechs into jets past 55 tons without some mass-eating extras and reinforcements that were deemed impractical by the universe's engineers. (And I may be talking my way into madness here, as the Syberians CLEARLY rewrote their LAM playbooks to make other transformers...)

Would be interesting. :)

MADNESS!

- Herb

[idea weenie]

As to the Champion LAM:
Again, we see failure in the jets to get as much power as they should have on paper, as well as needing "only minor adjustments" after transformations, and the underlying structural weakening of conversions, which would still be a mass issue. Reflecting this again with the Nonfunctional Conversion System Quirk. It's hinted that one COULD fix the problem by increasing the conversion gear mass, though, so... hmmm. (No, Herb; that way lies madness!)

- Herb

You also have the problem of going from 10% to 15% of the mass means a much nastier penalty.  My original Windblade design was ~35 tons but illegally only 10% of its mass for 'LAM' systems.  When increasing the transformation systems to 15% I had to bring the platform up to 50 tons to keep the same equipment.

[HABeas2]

You also have the problem of going from 10% to 15% of the mass means a much nastier penalty.  My original Windblade design was ~35 tons but illegally only 10% of its mass for 'LAM' systems.  When increasing the transformation systems to 15% I had to bring the platform up to 50 tons to keep the same equipment.

Ergo my comments on this being madness. In thinking about the fact that the Syberian conversion systems tend to be heavier, I realized it COULD follow that they might be robust enough to deal with 60+ ton convertible aerospace units. But if I went that way, a LOT of AutoMechs would need total rewrites, and at this stage in the game, I'm just not up for that...

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Well, to be fair, there aren't a lot of boat Transformers, which should be little surprise, as much of TF's canon have Cybertron being devoid of water.

Makes sense but Cybertron wasn't the only world with converting robotic lifeforms. But I get why there's not a lot. Land offers more opportunities and more varieties of action.   

The Scorpion LAM's key paragraph is thus:
Stat-wise, it suffered from the Non-Functional Item (Conversion System) Trait to reflect this factor, which basically covers the system's inability to provide that boost in power LAM jump jets receive to achieve actual Thrust-grade acceleration. If kept to its canon, a Scorpion LAM would probably work like a normal Jump Jet-equipped BattleMech in space.

I don't remember seeing that in there but the conversion system giving a boost to the Jump Jets is pretty interesting and makes sense.

As to the Champion LAM:
Again, we see failure in the jets to get as much power as they should have on paper, as well as needing "only minor adjustments" after transformations, and the underlying structural weakening of conversions, which would still be a mass issue. Reflecting this again with the Nonfunctional Conversion System Quirk. It's hinted that one COULD fix the problem by increasing the conversion gear mass, though, so... hmmm. (No, Herb; that way lies madness!)

It hinted a heavier conversion gear would fix the problem?  >:D  Visually it'd make sense for both too. I still can't picture what the AirMech Mode for the Scorpion LAM would look like. I figured BiModal would work better for it. I'm not sure which mode the Champion LAM is in. AirMech or BattleMech? I'm leaning towards BattleMech but I can't see AirMech being all that different. BiModal would seem to work better for it too. At least as far as conversion goes.

Anyway, as to the buoyancy of water equating to the vacuum of space in cancelling out weight, it doesn't really work that way. Being surrounded by water on all sides actively slows you down because the water around you actively counters some of your mass. In space, there's nothing at all doing that. NASA more or less uses water training to get astronauts used to low grav walking (which tends to force one to hop about for short distances), and for reinforcing the sense of slow-motion one has to do in space in order to avoid too much inertia. Apparently, astronauts in space COULD try and move faster than they often seem to, but they do so at the risk of spinning out of control by actions as simple as raising their arm at the wrong moment. Strap rockets on your feet and back, and raise the total mass of your body and limbs to 60 tons, and you'll probably only magnify such problems by a couple orders of magnitude or so. (BTW, myomer musculature is actually part of the whole actuation system, so frayed muscles can be just as debilitating to a 'Mech's actuator as any blown joints.) Throw in the fact that you can spend half your time in a form where your thrust approaches four gees of acceleration, and inertial effects probably compound this matter enough to compromise the actuators and myomers of giant walking robots.

I know water slows things. I wouldn't want to try to move around with ligament or muscle problems but it does help joints. I could see mass moving about at zero g being a problem if it applied to all mechs but it doesn't. Moving about at 4 gees could be an issue though. I still think operating in space would be less hazardous than in an atmosphere. If they have a problem in an atmosphere they're in for a less than gentle landing.

The bottom line: For whatever reason, the materials science of the BT universe can't deal with the strain of transforming 'Mechs into jets past 55 tons without some mass-eating extras and reinforcements that were deemed impractical by the universe's engineers. (And I may be talking my way into madness here, as the Syberians CLEARLY rewrote their LAM playbooks to make other transformers...)

MADNESS!

- Herb

"mass-eating extras and reinforcements that were deemed impractical by the universe's engineers" sounds very interesting.  >:DAnd yes they did.   :thumbsup:


Hmm...Does Madness have cookies like the Dark Side?

[RifleMech]

Ergo my comments on this being madness. In thinking about the fact that the Syberian conversion systems tend to be heavier, I realized it COULD follow that they might be robust enough to deal with 60+ ton convertible aerospace units. But if I went that way, a LOT of AutoMechs would need total rewrites, and at this stage in the game, I'm just not up for that...

- Herb

Why not follow Superheavy Mechs' example? Double the weight for the conversion systems for Superheavy AutoMechs? Then have some cookies.  ;D

[HABeas2]

Why not follow Superheavy Mechs' example? Double the weight for the conversion systems for Superheavy AutoMechs? Then have some cookies.  ;D

That's 30 percent of your frame going into conversion, plus another 10% for your frame, then add engines, gyro, and control system, and what's left for armor and weaponry?

- Herb

[Wrangler]

That's 30 percent of your frame going into conversion, plus another 10% for your frame, then add engines, gyro, and control system, and what's left for armor and weaponry?
- Herb

External weaponry.   If you recall, not many actual Transformers had weapons built in.  They had hand-held weapons.  Optimus Prime had only the laser rifle, only built in weapon was the one-time ever seen energy Battle Ax.  Most of the Automechs had external hand held weapons.

So heavier conversion systems could be dealt with somewhat with everything being externally clamped to the outsider like a Robotech's Alpha Fighter gun being under slungged on its chassis or its later newer weapon between its arms. You have actual transformer planes with their arm mounted lasers being externally mounted on wing pylons.

[HABeas2]

External weaponry.   If you recall, not many actual Transformers had weapons built in.  They had hand-held weapons.  Optimus Prime had only the laser rifle, only built in weapon was the one-time ever seen energy Battle Ax.  Most of the Automechs had external hand held weapons.

We've been representing those as jettison-capable and modular weapons Quirks. In my Endless Loop story, we see Primus Optimal do that with its Gauss rifle. Granted I show them doing it with the speed of a handheld weapon, but I'd handwave that as a benefit of the fully automated nature of AutoMech designs.

So heavier conversion systems could be dealt with somewhat with everything being externally clamped to the outsider like a Robotech's Alpha Fighter gun being under slungged on its chassis or its later newer weapon between its arms. You have actual transformer planes with their arm mounted lasers being externally mounted on wing pylons.

That might be an approach, but means the Syberian AutoMechs get one more advantage over LAMs in the ability to external-mount weapons.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

That's 30 percent of your frame going into conversion, plus another 10% for your frame, then add engines, gyro, and control system, and what's left for armor and weaponry?

- Herb

Not a lot but I'm going to guess they shouldn't be too powerful do to the original LAM rules. If that's too much though how about just adding 50% to the  conversion system? So if a standard conversion system is 15%, a superheavy conversion system would be 22.5 %? That'd be 13.5 tons for a 60 ton FighterMech compared to just 9 tons with 15%. It's a bit of an increase but not as much 30%.  It'd be a bit rough for 60 ton FighterMechs but weight is rough for 20 ton FighterMechs too. It wouldn't be as crippling to a 100 ton FighterMech.

External weaponry.   If you recall, not many actual Transformers had weapons built in.  They had hand-held weapons.  Optimus Prime had only the laser rifle, only built in weapon was the one-time ever seen energy Battle Ax.  Most of the Automechs had external hand held weapons.

So heavier conversion systems could be dealt with somewhat with everything being externally clamped to the outsider like a Robotech's Alpha Fighter gun being under slungged on its chassis or its later newer weapon between its arms. You have actual transformer planes with their arm mounted lasers being externally mounted on wing pylons.

I always presumed that those hand held weapons were carried internally but weren't available in vehicle mode. Like the shoulder mounted weapons on the cars. https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/0/0a/DiacloneBluestreakColours.jpg   Otherwise, where'd they come from?

Many Macross Valkyries have a port in the arms where the handle of the gun pod can be held when not held in the hand. You can see the arm mount for the VF-1's gun pod here. The gun pod is also a part of the Valkyrie's take off mass. Not empty weight. So it's kind of factored into everything unlike Battletech's hand held weapons which are completely external. I'm going to presume the Alpha has something similar.
http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie/vf-1-transformation2.gif

We've been representing those as jettison-capable and modular weapons Quirks. In my Endless Loop story, we see Primus Optimal do that with its Gauss rifle. Granted I show them doing it with the speed of a handheld weapon, but I'd handwave that as a benefit of the fully automated nature of AutoMech designs.

That might be an approach, but means the Syberian AutoMechs get one more advantage over LAMs in the ability to external-mount weapons.

- Herb

I don't know that I'd go completely external-mounted weapons since the drag would slow already slow LAMs down. This might be letting the Cat Girl out of her bag but when working on stats for the VF-1 we built things internally, like physical weapons, but we applied the open bomb bay rules to all the "external" items. Since the VF-1's only built in weapons are the head lasers, that's pretty much everything else they can carry. Their "external mounting" meant they could be hit and damaged without having to go through the armor first. Then we removed the limits for Jettison Capable weapons. We also had things linked together like the gun pod and ammo. Drop the gun and the ammo goes with it.

Linked items also had to be together on the record sheet. So the gun pod and ammo took 3 continuous lines on the right arm and we drew lines connecting them. That way we could mount the Armor and FAST Packs. Each group of linked items was Jettisoned as a single item. To fit everything in, we used maximum take off weight we could find for any VF-1 variant of 72 tons, and rounded it to 75. To be in keeping with Battletech's 5 ton increments. Plus the armor would have been even less. Total weight did end up varying a little between A and S variants ,but we didn't worry about that as it gave us room to upgrade to later models.. We really should get them all typed up and posted one day.

[HABeas2]

Not a lot but I'm going to guess they shouldn't be too powerful do to the original LAM rules. If that's too much though how about just adding 50% to the  conversion system? So if a standard conversion system is 15%, a superheavy conversion system would be 22.5 %? That'd be 13.5 tons for a 60 ton FighterMech compared to just 9 tons with 15%. It's a bit of an increase but not as much 30%.  It'd be a bit rough for 60 ton FighterMechs but weight is rough for 20 ton FighterMechs too. It wouldn't be as crippling to a 100 ton FighterMech.

I've put one superheavy into this project as it is (the Fort Max/Omega Supreme ground mode analog), and didn't change its conversion system weight. So, wouldn't go that way.

I always presumed that those hand held weapons were carried internally but weren't available in vehicle mode. Like the shoulder mounted weapons on the cars.

That's how I've been treating them, yes.

Many Macross Valkyries have a port in the arms where the handle of the gun pod can be held when not held in the hand. You can see the arm mount for the VF-1's gun pod here. The gun pod is also a part of the Valkyrie's take off mass. Not empty weight. So it's kind of factored into everything unlike Battletech's hand held weapons which are completely external. I'm going to presume the Alpha has something similar.

From what I've seen in some animated sequences, the gun pod outright pops off during the transformation process, and the Veritech dramatically grabs it once it's completed its conversion--which is fine, I suppose, if you transform in about a second and have mecha that react and maneuver with the speed and agility of the human body...

But our Syberians are in the BattleTech universe, where things a lot slower, clunkier, and more robotic than Macross/Robotech goes, and that kind of thing would end up with gun pods dropping like bombs. I'm not much of a fan of parts-formers, which transform by basically disassembling themselves and popping themselves back together, including the dropping of their weapons, because I see that kind of thing as a feature that begs for trouble or asks for a bit of magic we just don't find much in real life. So, yeah, our Syberians are using jettison-capable weapons that are basically built into their hands, but capable of ejecting and being remounted as needed.

I don't know that I'd go completely external-mounted weapons since the drag would slow already slow LAMs down. This might be letting the Cat Girl out of her bag...

Shit! Now I suddenly have an idea on what to do with that story I thought up a few years back....

Anyway, yeah, I'm steering away from external-mounts for now, but there's technically no reason a Syberian couldn't just pick up and use a handheld weapon system as long as they have the actuators and musculature to do so. (Idea for that "mounted gun" feature in the War for/Fall of Cybertron games, where they basically amounted to the Cybertronian equivalent of an M-60.)

- Herb

[RifleMech]

I've put one superheavy into this project as it is (the Fort Max/Omega Supreme ground mode analog), and didn't change its conversion system weight. So, wouldn't go that way.

Wasn't he an Emplacement Mech which can be up to 200 tons? Maybe, I'm using the wrong terms but with combat vehicles there's standard and there's superheavy. I was thinking the same could be for AutoMechs. FighterMechs weigh up to 55 tons have a standard conversion system. FighterMechs 60+ tons would have a superheavy conversion system. And so on.At least that was what I was thinking. Of course any Mech over 100 tons would still follow the rules for superheavies.

That's how I've been treating them, yes.

 :thumbsup:

From what I've seen in some animated sequences, the gun pod outright pops off during the transformation process, and the Veritech dramatically grabs it once it's completed its conversion--which is fine, I suppose, if you transform in about a second and have mecha that react and maneuver with the speed and agility of the human body...

But our Syberians are in the BattleTech universe, where things a lot slower, clunkier, and more robotic than Macross/Robotech goes, and that kind of thing would end up with gun pods dropping like bombs. I'm not much of a fan of parts-formers, which transform by basically disassembling themselves and popping themselves back together, including the dropping of their weapons, because I see that kind of thing as a feature that begs for trouble or asks for a bit of magic we just don't find much in real life. So, yeah, our Syberians are using jettison-capable weapons that are basically built into their hands, but capable of ejecting and being remounted as needed.

I agree. Battletech isn't that fast. I also don't like it when parts drop off and pop back on, or disappear and reappear. The point was, like you said, they're built in, and for Syberians, already being held in the hand. It's just sometimes, the weapon isn't usable in one mode. Like Primus's axe in vehicle mode. Although, I have seen pics of an Autobot with a robot arm sticking out of the back shooting at a Decepticon Jet. So maybe it does work in vehicle mode? Maybe he was a logging truck in a previous life?

Now that I think about i though, sometimes guns could be mounted on the outside of the vehicle, so I guess drop and pick up could work. It would be limiting though since they'd have to stop and be an easier target. Plus if they drop the weapon someone else could pick it up and use it against them.

Shit! Now I suddenly have an idea on what to do with that story I thought up a few years back....

That's good. :)

Anyway, yeah, I'm steering away from external-mounts for now, but there's technically no reason a Syberian couldn't just pick up and use a handheld weapon system as long as they have the actuators and musculature to do so. (Idea for that "mounted gun" feature in the War for/Fall of Cybertron games, where they basically amounted to the Cybertronian equivalent of an M-60.)

- Herb

No problem. :) I'm not sure if completely external weapons, hand-helds aside, would be a good idea. I was just trying to show how a built in weapon could be made to look external. I haven't played those games but it sounds cool. :)

[RifleMech]

I've got world building question and a mech construction one. I'm presuming there are highways and roads within and connecting the various the various factions from before the world fell to war. The AutoMechs would still want to get around their own territory and visit friendly ones. If there's TrainMechs, would there also be rail lines or would the TrainMechs just travel over the roads? If yes to rail lines, would any of the TrainMechs be Maglevs or just wheeled?

Thanks :)


Edit
Was there an example of a HoverMech that I missed?

[HABeas2]

I've got world building question and a mech construction one. I'm presuming there are highways and roads within and connecting the various the various factions from before the world fell to war. The AutoMechs would still want to get around their own territory and visit friendly ones. If there's TrainMechs, would there also be rail lines or would the TrainMechs just travel over the roads? If yes to rail lines, would any of the TrainMechs be Maglevs or just wheeled?

There are roads and highways, but a great many of them outside of held territories are likely more rubble-y than not. (The convertible AutoMechs with vehicle forms are off-road capable by default, BTW.) Rail systems, if any, would be for non-convertible "non-Mech AutoMechs," though. There are no TrainMechs.

Was there an example of a HoverMech that I missed?

Seaspray's and Blurr's AutoMech equivalents are HoverMechs.

Here's Blurr (Blurry Beetle):

Code: [Select]

Type: Beetle II
Technology Base: Syberian (Experimental)
Tonnage: 35

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: 3.5
Conversion Eqpt: Hover 5.5
Engine: 210 9
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 0
Hover Cruise MP: 8
Hover Flank MP: 12
Heat Sinks (Double): 10 [20] 0
Gyro: 3
Cockpit: AutoMech 3
Armor Factor: 96 6
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 11 12
Center Torso (rear) 7
R/L Torso 8 10
R/L Torso (rear) 5
R/L Arms 6 9
R/L Legs 8 10

Fixed Components Location Critical Tonnage
Conversion Gear RL/LL 2 0
Hover Fans RA/RL/LA/LL 4 0
2 Double Heat Sinks RT/LT 6 0

Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Common Configuration
ER Large Laser RA 2 5

Notes: No turret in Vehicle Mode; Features the following Design Quirks: Illegal (Syberian Robotics AI, BattleMech/Hover Vehicle Conversion), Compact ’Mech, Improved Sensors, Modular Weapons, Jettison-Capable Weapons (Hands).

- Herb

[RifleMech]

There are roads and highways, but a great many of them outside of held territories are likely more rubble-y than not. (The convertible AutoMechs with vehicle forms are off-road capable by default, BTW.) Rail systems, if any, would be for non-convertible "non-Mech AutoMechs," though. There are no TrainMechs.

So Astrotrain type Drones would have only a single mode as either a Dropship or a Locomotive, or if convertible either an AeroFighterMech or a WheeledMech made to look like a shuttle or a locomotive?

Seaspray's and Blurr's AutoMech equivalents are HoverMechs.

Here's Blurr (Blurry Beetle):

So I did miss one!  xp
Thanks :)

Code: [Select]

Type: Beetle II
Technology Base: Syberian (Experimental)
Tonnage: 35
(snip)

Very cool!  :thumbsup:



Another silly question, if the Syberian Drone's creators made Drones to look like animals, would they have also made them to look like plants? I just saw this guy https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Flytrap and a few others and wondered. They could be a variant of the BeastMech or Emplacement type drones.


[HABeas2]

So Astrotrain type Drones would have only a single mode as either a Dropship or a Locomotive, or if convertible either an AeroFighterMech or a WheeledMech made to look like a shuttle or a locomotive?

Star Train (Astrotrain) has two identities on Syberia. One is a Leader-class WheelMech (covering the train-like form, but one that doesn't need rails), and the other is a DropShip.

Another silly question, if the Syberian Drone's creators made Drones to look like animals, would they have also made them to look like plants? I just saw this guy https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Flytrap and a few others and wondered. They could be a variant of the BeastMech or Emplacement type drones.

Flytrap wasn't immobile, so he'd probably get a monstrous BeastMech translation here. A stationary "PlantMech" would be an EmplacementMech translation. You may notice that the flying beast Mechs we have are built as FighterMechs and VTOLMechs; they just got animal/monster makeovers. The PresiDom faction on Syberia uses bizarre monstrous forms, while the InterSectCon and AxiMaL use more "terrestrial" forms.

- Herb

[Luciora]

I'm highly amused as Syberian tech and mechs crosses over very easily to other Japanese transforming series, many of which use other non-military vehicles, like trains, police cars and construction vehicles.  Been playing alot of Super Robot Wars 30 lately and a number of the robots from Brave Police J-Decker seem to share art.

[glitterboy2098]

Flytrap wasn't immobile, so he'd probably get a monstrous BeastMech translation here. A stationary "PlantMech" would be an EmplacementMech translation. You may notice that the flying beast Mechs we have are built as FighterMechs and VTOLMechs; they just got animal/monster makeovers. The PresiDom faction on Syberia uses bizarre monstrous forms, while the InterSectCon and AxiMaL use more "terrestrial" forms.

yeah, "plantformers" would be really hard to adapt over. if i ever tried to tackle Botanica from Beast machines for example, i'd probably drop the entire transforming aspect since it didn't really give much to work with in BT (and her weapons are all similarly "out of box" things), and instead make it a class of Industrialmech grade agricultural support mech. possibly named the Treant class after the tongue in cheek "ask vector prime" examples of other plant form transformers.

[Luciora]

Slightly off topic, but this just came up from a site I get models from:

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/image/10902258

[Daryk]

What the heck? ???

[Wrangler]

My Eyes.... xp

[RifleMech]

Star Train (Astrotrain) has two identities on Syberia. One is a Leader-class WheelMech (covering the train-like form, but one that doesn't need rails), and the other is a DropShip.

Flytrap wasn't immobile, so he'd probably get a monstrous BeastMech translation here. A stationary "PlantMech" would be an EmplacementMech translation. You may notice that the flying beast Mechs we have are built as FighterMechs and VTOLMechs; they just got animal/monster makeovers. The PresiDom faction on Syberia uses bizarre monstrous forms, while the InterSectCon and AxiMaL use more "terrestrial" forms.

- Herb

Cool! Wheeled mech they are!  :thumbsup:

and Cool! I did notice that flying BeastMechs were built FighterMechs and VTOLMechs. That's why I was wondering if PlantMechs would be builtas BeastMech and EmplacementMech.:thumbsup: 

Thanks :)  :thumbsup:

I'm highly amused as Syberian tech and mechs crosses over very easily to other Japanese transforming series, many of which use other non-military vehicles, like trains, police cars and construction vehicles.  Been playing alot of Super Robot Wars 30 lately and a number of the robots from Brave Police J-Decker seem to share art.

I think it's great that Syberian tech and mechs can cross over so well. I haven't seen Brave Police J-Decker but it looks cool. I'll have to see if I can check it out.

yeah, "plantformers" would be really hard to adapt over. if i ever tried to tackle Botanica from Beast machines for example, i'd probably drop the entire transforming aspect since it didn't really give much to work with in BT (and her weapons are all similarly "out of box" things), and instead make it a class of Industrialmech grade agricultural support mech. possibly named the Treant class after the tongue in cheek "ask vector prime" examples of other plant form transformers.

Yeah, Botanica doesn't look like she'd be easy to do. I'd probably go with the others. They look more like transformers, if a bit goofy.

Slightly off topic, but this just came up from a site I get models from:

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/image/10902258

Whaaaa?

[Luciora]

Beachcomber and Full Tilt are up!

[Wrangler]

Slightly off topic, but this just came up from a site I get models from:

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/image/10902258

After thinking about it, this is the logical conclusion of the war.  They repopulated the humans with themselves!  ;D

[HABeas2]

Beachcomber and Full Tilt are up!

And they look fantastic!

- Herb

[I am Belch II]

Beachcomber and Full Tilt are up!

Where Im missing where it is??

[Daryk]

They're in the miniatures subforum...  8)

[glitterboy2098]

sorry to add an extra unit but i decided to give it a go..
---------------------------------------------

The Saurus class bestial automech is a PresiDom exclusive design, and a rare one at that. Outwardly it is similar in gross physical form to the Grimdark class Beastmech, but the fauxflesh conceals a very different machine, and one that is arguably more advanced. Which design came first is unknown, and it is likely that even both the Presidential Domains and Barony of Grim do not now know whether the two designs were related, or merely a case convergent design. The Saurus make use of standard mech structure and engines, with slightly inferior protection than the more mechanistic Grimdark class. however the Saurus class is clearly designed more for mobility, with a 300 rated engine and MASC technology giving it greatly increased ground speed in both mech and quad modes. in terms of firepower it is less potent, possessing Tail useable in bestial mode, a single arm mounted Snub PPC with its firing aperture located within robust melee Claw, and a quartet of small lasers, curiously mounted in pairs in its legs. more notable however is the large shield mounted in its opposite arm, which establishes the focus of this automech's weaponry is not in direct assault, as much as self defense, to protect its most valuable tool, five tons of communications equipment by which it coordinates PresiDom units under its command. for the Saurus class of beastmech is seen almost exclusively as a leader type unit, Indeed one unit, calling himself "MechaSaurus" has become recognized as the faction's chief commander after a long career. Devious, Egotistic, with a tendency to almost vaudevillian melodrama, MechaSaurus often takes direct command on the frontlines, frequently leading the PresiDom forces on raids of AxiMaL facilities to steal resources.

Code: [Select]

Mechasaurus

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 21.6 kph
Maximum Speed: 43.2 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     4 Small Laser
     1 Snub-Nose PPC
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 11,850,000 C-bills

Type: Mechasaurus
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 877

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                   10
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3(4)
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     16                      6
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Conversion Gear                                  5
Armor Factor                  0                      17

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        38   
     Center Torso (rear)               13   
     R/L Torso               21        28   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        34   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Small Lasers                LL        2        1       1.0   
2 Heat Sinks                  RT        2        -       2.0   
Communications Equipment      RT        5        -       5.0   
Shield                        LA        7        -       6.0   
MASC                          LT        5        -       5.0   
2 Heat Sinks                  LT        2        -       2.0   
2 Small Lasers                RL        2        1       1.0   
Snub-Nose PPC                 RA        2        10      6.0   
Claw                          RA        7        -       7.0   
Tail (quad mode)              RA        2        0      6.0


(also i really wish someone would add the Syberian stuff to Megamek)

[HABeas2]

sorry to add an extra unit but i decided to give it a go..
---------------------------------------------

The Saurus class bestial automech is a PresiDom exclusive design, and a rare one at that. Outwardly it is similar in gross physical form to the Grimdark class Beastmech, but the fauxflesh conceals a very different machine, and one that is arguably more advanced. <snip>

Huh! Based on your idea that they'd be smaller, I made my version--which I dubbed the Tyrannis--at 70 tons.

As the one who gave us most of the Beast Wars expies, I'm okay with swapping out my Tyrannis for your MechaSaurus.

- Herb

[Wrangler]

Seaspray's and Blurr's AutoMech equivalents are HoverMechs.

Here's Blurr (Blurry Beetle):

Code: [Select]

Type: Beetle II
Technology Base: Syberian (Experimental)
Tonnage: 35

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: 3.5
Conversion Eqpt: Hover 5.5
Engine: 210 9
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 0
Hover Cruise MP: 8
Hover Flank MP: 12
Heat Sinks (Double): 10 [20] 0
Gyro: 3
Cockpit: AutoMech 3
Armor Factor: 96 6
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 11 12
Center Torso (rear) 7
R/L Torso 8 10
R/L Torso (rear) 5
R/L Arms 6 9
R/L Legs 8 10

Fixed Components Location Critical Tonnage
Conversion Gear RL/LL 2 0
Hover Fans RA/RL/LA/LL 4 0
2 Double Heat Sinks RT/LT 6 0

Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Common Configuration
ER Large Laser RA 2 5

Notes: No turret in Vehicle Mode; Features the following Design Quirks: Illegal (Syberian Robotics AI, BattleMech/Hover Vehicle Conversion), Compact ’Mech, Improved Sensors, Modular Weapons, Jettison-Capable Weapons (Hands).

- Herb

Does Blurry have a small shield? usually it's part of the nose.