MW5 - Rant

[martian]

I've not tried the Clan invasion mod, but all the mods I have tried add lots of flavor. I do wish moders would keep things updated on the steam workshop. It's so much simpler. However, I think everything in the workshop is out of date, and very buggy. Thankfully Nexus mods has everything I need (so far).

Should I wish to replay the Clan Wars, I can replay MechWarrior 2, MechWarrior 3 or MechCommander.

I am tired of seeing the old hundred-times-rehashed stuff such as the Clan Invasion, rehashed stories about those Mary Sueish Wolf's Dragoons or Kell Hounds, etc.

I want something new. Campaign with a fresh new story, a place where I can use new 'Mechs such as this one:

[Akamia]

Should I wish to replay the Clan Wars, I can replay MechWarrior 2, MechWarrior 3 or MechCommander.

I am tired of seeing the old hundred-times-rehashed stuff such as the Clan Invasion, rehashed stories about those Mary Sueish Wolf's Dragoons or Kell Hounds, etc.

I want something new. Campaign with a fresh new story, a place where I can use new 'Mechs such as this one:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we actually haven't had a lot of "rehashing" in the video games, in part because there aren't nearly enough of them for it to have been done a hundred times in the first place. Operation REVIVAL has only played out in MW2Mercs and some MechCommander-esque mobile game that no one apparently cares about. The Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds don't get a lot of spotlight in the video games either, from what I can tell; even in MW4Mercs, the Hounds only appeared in-person in one set of ops, and they and every other mercenary of particular note were merely "sponsors" to yours otherwise; the other three in that game, the Wolf's Dragoons, Gray Death Legion, and Northwind Highlanders, do not actually appear. At least one of those three was rather busy being dead at the time the game takes place, if I recall correctly. ;D

That being said, I think I'm with you, to a certain degree. I would love to see a new game in a more current era. I want a Savage Wolf. Right now, I can only get such a ’Mech via a mod in MW5Mercs, and mods wreak absolute havoc on multiplayer in my experience, which sours things when I want to use this thing and play with friends at the same time.

Even that being said, however, the BattleTech universe is a very big place. You can go back to the Succession Wars, the Clan Invasion, the FedCom Civil War, etc. and get any number of different stories. There's a reason we have so many books in each era being written even to this very day, from shorts to novels; though the latter seems more focused on ilClan these days, as it should be given the circumstances, it's not exactly unusual to see older eras in new writing, with their own stories to tell. So seeing the Clan Invasion again is fair game as far as I'm concerned; let's just see it from another perspective. ;)

Speaking for myself, I think I can do without a Sun Spider, though. Unless it gets ported to canon, maybe...? I already suffered whiplash encountering a Mauler years ahead of when it was supposed to exist, only to realize the variant I saw was actually PGI's take on implementing its failed prototype, the Daboku. ;D

[martian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we actually haven't had a lot of "rehashing" in the video games, in part because there aren't nearly enough of them for it to have been done a hundred times in the first place.

I meant both the PC games, sourcebooks, scenario books, TROs and all that stuff together. Rehashing them, rehashing their 'Mechs, their special 'Mech packs, etc.

Wolf's Dragoons? Surviving Jihad and again being the best in everything in the post-Jihad era.
Kell Hounds? Supposed to die on Arc-Royal (or where it was)? No way, let's keep them.
GDL. Let's revive them in the Dark Age.
Northwind Highlanders? Revived to stop the Capellan invasion.

Smoke Jaguars? Let's keep this zombie around.

Operation REVIVAL has only played out in MW2Mercs and some MechCommander-esque mobile game that no one apparently cares about.

That's why I talked about the Clan Wars, not the Clan Invasion.

I piloted more than enough Madcats and Vultures and Masakaris and Marauder IICs in MW2 (Refusal War) and Madcats and Grizzlys in MW2:GBL (inter-Clan conflict with IS overlap). I can replay MW2:Mercs anytime to see the IS mercenary's life and the Clan invasion from the IS side.

I can replay MW3 to re-experience IS counter-attack against the Clans. I guess that many players switch to salvaged Madcats mid-way through the game anyway.

Ditto MC1.

And yet, some players can not think anything better than to rehash all that old stuff again.

The Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds don't get a lot of spotlight in the video games either, from what I can tell; even in MW4Mercs, the Hounds only appeared in-person in one set of ops, and they and every other mercenary of particular note were merely "sponsors" to yours otherwise;

Except, of course, that it was the most important story arc of the game.

the other three in that game, the Wolf's Dragoons, Gray Death Legion, and Northwind Highlanders, do not actually appear. At least one of those three was rather busy being dead at the time the game takes place, if I recall correctly. ;D

In the in-game context GDL was alive.

That being said, I think I'm with you, to a certain degree. I would love to see a new game in a more current era. I want a Savage Wolf. Right now, I can only get such a ’Mech via a mod in MW5Mercs, and mods wreak absolute havoc on multiplayer in my experience, which sours things when I want to use this thing and play with friends at the same time.

Yeah! Better than all those TRO:3050 Clan Omnis that have been used and abused for the last thirty years (since 1990 or when that TRO was first published).

Even that being said, however, the BattleTech universe is a very big place. You can go back to the Succession Wars, the Clan Invasion, the FedCom Civil War, etc. and get any number of different stories. There's a reason we have so many books in each era being written even to this very day, from shorts to novels; though the latter seems more focused on ilClan these days, as it should be given the circumstances, it's not exactly unusual to see older eras in new writing, with their own stories to tell. So seeing the Clan Invasion again is fair game as far as I'm concerned; let's just see it from another perspective. ;)

In theory, yes. BattleTech universe is a big place. Unfortunately the most places of this big universe are backwater planets that absolutely do not matter.

If you want some new official materials, then it is Wolf's Dragoons this and Kell Hounds that. Let's publish new Merc manual from 3050s because ... dunno ... previous two or three volumes with two Supplementals have not been enough.

Let's rehash the battle of Tukayyid again ...

etc.

Speaking for myself, I think I can do without a Sun Spider, though. Unless it gets ported to canon, maybe...? I already suffered whiplash encountering a Mauler years ahead of when it was supposed to exist, only to realize the variant I saw was actually PGI's take on implementing its prototype, the Daboku. ;D

That Sun Spider was just an example.

[Akamia]

In theory, yes. BattleTech universe is a big place. Unfortunately the most places of this big universe are backwater planets that absolutely do not matter.

I'mma give a hard disagree here, my friend. Sure, they don't matter in the big picture, but not everything needs to be about the big picture. MechWarrior 4: Vengeance took place entirely on Kentares IV, which certainly is a fairly significant location in BattleTech history to be fair, but in the grander context of the FedCom Civil War in particular, I don't think it was really all that big a deal. The story was great, though; one of my favorites in the franchise's video games, competing with that of HBSTech – which was also relatively irrelevant, but made mostly canon anyway thanks to the Aurigan Coalition sourcebook.

If we want to look at novels, Ideal War was also really good; despite taking place during the Clan Invasion, the said invasion had relatively little to do with the plot as far as I understand. It was all about a rather messy civil war on Gibson.

I agree that most official material leans pretty heavily on certain big-names, because that's what sells them, but you absolutely can tell a relatively small scale story in the BattleTech universe that matters, even if it doesn't necessarily impact the grander narrative a whole lot. In fact, I'd argue this is one thing the video games should start embracing; as apocryphal products, they don't reliably contribute to canon anyway; when they do, it's almost never in full.

[martian]

At least there has been some storyline progression in the MechWarrior series:

• MechWarrior 1 - 3025 era
• MechWarrior 2 - late 3040s and early 3050s the Clan Invasion era
• MechWarrior 3 - 3050s and the gradual end of the Clan Invasion; ditto MC1 and MC1:DM
• MechWarrior 4 - 3060s and the FedCom Civil War (with some Clan missions, of course)
• MechWarrior 5 - Jihad. The game that never was. You can see the hints in the last seconds of the MW4 outros.

I would find it boring and tiring to see the rehash of previous installments (especially MW2) once again. As I said, I can replay these previous games and recall their storylines any time I wish.  :)

[Akamia]

I guess that's fair. Speaking for myself, I'm not sure I really want to go back and (re)play some of those. I liked the way MW5Mercs played too much. ;D If I could get those games again, but they played similar to MW5Mercs maybe with a touch further parsimony with how ’Mechs work in tabletop/lore combat added for good measure I'd be even happier.

Still, you have a point about the progression in MechWarrior games of the past, and how MW5Mercs has completely bucked that trend by, effectively, being a prequel to MW1, if only in the sense of precisely when it begins. I'm actually rather torn between wanting to go to Jihad or directly to ilClan next.

[Aotrs Commander]

Question, is there mods to add additional more interesting missions?

I'm not saying that I want to break the game or anything, but it does help make the game more interesting. I know there's one more expansion to go before this is no more but it'd be nice see if there's fan made missions to add to it.

Coyote's mission pack, which is recommended by quite a few of the other mods.

(I have added the YAML mods for more fiddling with the mechlab, and just added TTRulez AI mod (with easy aim re-activated) - more for my lancemate AI than the enemy and I did not die horribly, so there's that for it.)

[martian]

I guess that's fair. Speaking for myself, I'm not sure I really want to go back and (re)play some of those. I liked the way MW5Mercs played too much. ;D If I could get those games again, but they played similar to MW5Mercs maybe with a touch further parsimony with how ’Mechs work in tabletop/lore combat added for good measure I'd be even happier.

Still, you have a point about the progression in MechWarrior games of the past, and how MW5Mercs has completely bucked that trend by, effectively, being a prequel to MW1, if only in the sense of precisely when it begins. I'm actually rather torn between wanting to go to Jihad or directly to ilClan next.

I would go with the Jihad era, as it was originally planned. The general situation is easy to understand and the Clans are more or less where they were in 3050s. The majority of the old factions is still around. The ComStar still sits on Terra and controls the surrounding systems, but it just calls itself Word of Blake, etc.

Easier than having to explain what the Republic is, what the Fortress of the Republic is, the Wall, the new Dark Age factions, etc. Also, people want to play with BattleMechs and OmniMechs, not with armed IndustrialMechs.

[Akamia]

I would go with the Jihad era, as it was originally planned. The general situation is easy to understand and the Clans are more or less where they were in 3050s. The majority of the old factions is still around. The ComStar still sits on Terra and controls the surrounding systems, but it just calls itself Word of Blake, etc.

Easier than having to explain what the Republic is, what the Fortress of the Republic is, the Wall, the new Dark Age factions, etc. Also, people want to play with BattleMechs and OmniMechs, not with armed IndustrialMechs.

I mean, it’s not like BattleMechs and OmniMechs suddenly went extinct in the Dark Age… I, for one, would not mind acquiring the option of running an IndustrialMech, armed or otherwise. ;D Canonically, BattleMechs were relatively scarce in the Third Succession War period too, but that didn’t stop MW5Mercs and HBSTech from making them a common sight anyway. The latter especially, considering it’s limiting the player to a particular Periphery zone at the border of FedSun, Capellan, and Free Worlds League space. There wasn’t actually a whole lot of ’Mechs down there at the time compared to most anywhere else.

Also, I don't really remember getting any explanation about, well, anyone besides the immediate characters in the previous games. Playing MechWarrior 4: Vengeance back in the day, I didn't even know who the Federated Suns (or House Davion, for that matter) were, let alone that the player character was affiliated with them. Playing MechWarrior 2, I didn't know anyone outside Clans Wolf and Jade Falcon existed, and I barely had any idea who either of them were. Oh, there was flavor text. Lots and lots of flavor text. But my child-to-late-teen self did not read most of it and did not care; I was mostly concerned with "take this ’Mech and shoot this bad guy". ;D I don't see how a Dark Age or ilClan game would be any different in this regard; throw in flavor text for those who are interested in reading – which includes me, now – and don't worry too much about explaining the bigger picture for those who are more concerned about the immediate conflict(s).

[martian]

I mean, it’s not like BattleMechs and OmniMechs suddenly went extinct in the Dark Age… I, for one, would not mind acquiring the option of running an IndustrialMech, armed or otherwise. ;D Canonically, BattleMechs were relatively scarce in the Third Succession War period too, but that didn’t stop MW5Mercs and HBSTech from making them a common sight anyway. The latter especially, considering it’s limiting the player to a particular Periphery zone at the border of FedSun, Capellan, and Free Worlds League space. There wasn’t actually a whole lot of ’Mechs down there at the time compared to most anywhere else.

Exactly! As you have noticed, even PGI and HBS used BattleMechs instead of armed WorkMechs. They realized that if they wished to succeed with their games, they had to give the players what they wanted: BattleMechs, not armed LoaderMechs with one medium laser or machine gun.

Also, I don't really remember getting any explanation about, well, anyone besides the immediate characters in the previous games. Playing MechWarrior 4: Vengeance back in the day, I didn't even know who the Federated Suns (or House Davion, for that matter) were, let alone that the player character was affiliated with them. Oh, there was flavor text. Lots and lots of flavor text. But my child-to-late-teen self did not read most of it and did not care; I was mostly concerned with "take this ’Mech and shoot this bad guy". ;D I don't see how a Dark Age or ilClan game would be any different in this regard; throw in flavor text for those who are interested in reading – which includes me, now – and don't worry too much about explaining the bigger picture for those who are more concerned about the immediate conflict(s).

Right, but the Jihad era has one big advantage in this respect: It is clear who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. I guess that the majority of players identifies with the good guys.

When it comes to the Dark Age, it is not always clear who the good guys are, but not even what is happening and why.

[Akamia]

Exactly! As you have noticed, even PGI and HBS used BattleMechs instead of armed WorkMechs. They realized that if they wished to succeed with their games, they had to give the players what they wanted: BattleMechs, not armed LoaderMechs with one medium laser or machine gun.

I agree! I just wish they could give us the other assets too. I want combined arms, and not just on the OpFor's side as is apparently MechWarrior tradition, but my own as well. ;D Even if they don't let us actually drive the tanks and stuff, I'd like them to at least be present in my arsenal, and in some way useful on top of that.

That being said, I understand that video game development is hard and time consuming, and we can't always have everything we want, so...  xp

Right, but the Jihad era has one big advantage in this respect: It is clear who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. I guess that the majority of players identifies with the good guys.

When it comes to the Dark Age, it is not always clear who the good guys are, but not even what is happening and why.

And that ambiguity is one of BattleTech's best features. I play these games as a child, and look back on them as an adult with greater context for the setting to find "Hey, [insert player-aligned faction/character here] is not as clean as they appeared" and I appreciate that. ;D It also gives me greater appreciation for Mercenaries-type titles where I get to be my own boss, more or less, and I get to decide for myself which House Dirtbag I want to put up with for the day.

I would actually argue this is a weakness of Jihad Era, if not for the fact that sometimes there really is an obvious bad guy. Sometimes, one might even wish to play the said bad guy.

In any case, a new game set in Jihad first probably would be best. Dark Age and ilClan can wait.

[martian]

I agree! I just wish they could give us the other assets too. I want combined arms, and not just on the OpFor's side as is apparently MechWarrior tradition, but my own as well. ;D Even if they don't let us actually drive the tanks and stuff, I'd like them to at least be present in my arsenal, and in some way useful on top of that.

Just let me keep the vehicles that I have already purchased!  ;)

I hated when in MC1 and MC2 I bought Repair Truck, Ammo Truck, Swiftwind or Minesweeper, ensured that they are safe during the mission, ended the mission with the 100% health of those vehicles ... and lost them. And I had to re-buy them again for the next mission.  :(

That being said, I understand that video game development is hard and time consuming, and we can't always have everything we want, so...  xp
And that ambiguity is one of BattleTech's best features. I play these games as a child, and look back on them as an adult with greater context for the setting to find "Hey, [insert player-aligned faction/character here] is not as clean as they appeared" and I appreciate that. ;D It also gives me greater appreciation for Mercenaries-type titles where I get to be my own boss, more or less, and I get to decide for myself which House Dirtbag I want to put up with for the day.

I would actually argue this is a weakness of Jihad Era, if not for the fact that sometimes there really is an obvious bad guy. Sometimes, one might even wish to play the said bad guy.

In any case, a new game set in Jihad first probably would be best. Dark Age and ilClan can wait.

In the end, this is the EG7's decision.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Hmmm, to make it better ?

Has anyone heard of the Clans ::) ;D

Serious idea for an add on pack, use the current game mechanics, but start the Clans, in the the Perhipery (Invasion Corridors) and have them advance in to the next "4 World zone" check points

[martian]

Hmmm, to make it better ?

Has anyone heard of the Clans ::) ;D

Serious idea for an add on pack, use the current game mechanics, but start the Clans, in the the Perhipery (Invasion Corridors) and have them advance in to the next "4 World zone" check points

The current PGI's MWO staff consists of approximately 3-4 people, maybe less.

[Wrangler]

Oof

[Caedis Animus]

And yet, some players can not think anything better than to rehash all that old stuff again.

There are times where I feel this is a tyrannical grip on the industry as a whole that keeps things from moving forward in a way that isn't stunted and malformed.

That also said, I don't think I'd expect anything less from PGI or the fans they cater to, including us. The biggest thing that surprised me is that they didn't go with the Civil War era again. They should have, but I'd have preferred something more than that too.

[PyreLight]

The biggest thing that surprised me is that they didn't go with the Civil War era again. They should have, but I'd have preferred something more than that too.

Uh no, that's not how game development works. The amount of mechs they'd have to implement to make it Civil War would be way too step. That era is also not as welcoming to newcomers to the universe, both in terms of fiction and technology. The 3015-3049 setting makes much more sense from a production perspective, from a marketing perspective, and from a future perspective.

They should not have gone with the Civil War era and it would have been a huge surprise if they did. The way they've done it and how they've laid the groundwork for future installments makes a lot of sense.

[pokefan548]

Uh no, that's not how game development works. The amount of mechs they'd have to implement to make it Civil War would be way too step. That era is also not as welcoming to newcomers to the universe, both in terms of fiction and technology.

On the point of technology, I pose the counter-argument that the video games already time-travel later tech into the SW eras enough as-is that most Civil War era tech wouldn't be terribly beyond the pale of what players of modern BT video games are already familiar with. There's also actually a reason in fiction for the player to be fighting a bunch of BattleMechs on the regular instead of the "real" Third Succession War experience of kicking around ICE tanks and PBIs, and sometimes maybe landing on a world with an enemy BattleMech force probably no larger than a company.

Anyhow, most of the really crazy fluff of the era only really matters if you want to get deep into the intrigue side of things. You don't need a full history of ComStar for one or two side quests about a feud between some crazy tech cult and the space phones company that kicked them out a few years ago. You don't need to know all about Hanse Davion's expedition into the fertile lands of House Steiner to get the gist that two of the big superpowers (formerly allied, split in a power grab) are going at it and are each paying top dollar for mercs such as yourselves to shoot the other. You don't need to be familiar with the Clans and Clan politics to figure out that the Clans are invaders currently holed up and rebuilding their strength in an occupation zone. There should be natural introductions to each of these things, and knowing the ins-and-outs of why the various factions and quest-givers are doing what they're doing is really cool, but most of the standard MechWarrior gameplay and story loop just hinges on broadly knowing who hates who and how well they pay. For people who just want to rock-'em-sock-'em-BattleMechs, that's enough; for people who want to know more of the intricate details behind why the FedCom Civil War started and why all these different factions are getting up to shady stuff, most of that can be handled naturally through dialogue and optional lore dumps.

[Caedis Animus]

Uh no, that's not how game development works.

Then 'Game Development' needs to change. I'd rather not pretend my consumer is too vapid to understand something I tell and or show them, especially in a longstanding franchise with decades of history.

It's not like you couldn't ease them into it by starting them in 3025 career mode with news as an option, regardless-PGI has mechs dating as far back as 3025 and as far forward as 3067~, and the game has a campaign mode that doesn't follow a long 'proper' campaign, as well as DLC campaigns from things that don't follow the main campaign. Seems structured to handle that just fine.

[Wrangler]

How I see it is that there has to be an interest of the new owners of PGI to invest in the game.
Allegedly there has been movement that they may have found a new map maker and mech designer. Whether or not this is true or it'll pan out well is hard to say I'm not seen anything but a tweet mentioning that there was somebody found for at least the maps and I mentioned that they may have found someone else for the max. They just need somebody else to do designs of stuff. But that's only MechWarrior Online.

I still find it hard to believe that they can't somehow figure out how to have a second development team working on MechWarrior 5.  Hopefully the team that they stole from McGuire 5 can come back and work on other stuff but it just depends on the parent company really.

[Cyc]

Oh hey Russ Bullock is responding to MW5 fan tweets...

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock/status/1596654752242491392?s=20&t=zFdOgilUVkv9VbaKiP5zNg

More MW5 is apparently coming and news likely to appear this week.

Let the insane assumptions begin. I'll bet another high reward quest to get us a single 'Mech and most likely Crusader, minor tweaks another skin at most.

[Caedis Animus]

Let the insane assumptions begin. I'll bet another high reward quest to get us a single 'Mech and most likely Crusader, minor tweaks another skin at most.

Timeskip forward to the Jihad with an entire Celestial Line.

... I was joking, but I made myself sad.

But I do think more than the Crusader; Another skin, A high reward quest, and maybe another new mech if we're lucky, considering the Hatchetman PGI produced previously was a fresh MW5 only thing. I'm hoping, at least, because pickings are slim in the game's timeframe.

[Wrangler]

Oh hey Russ Bullock is responding to MW5 fan tweets...

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock/status/1596654752242491392?s=20&t=zFdOgilUVkv9VbaKiP5zNg

More MW5 is apparently coming and news likely to appear this week.

Let the insane assumptions begin. I'll bet another high reward quest to get us a single 'Mech and most likely Crusader, minor tweaks another skin at most.

I think that's the last of the add ons / DLCs they were talking about a while ago.  Like the legend of the Kestrel Lancers.

I'm not as hyped if its that verse.  Hey, we've resumed development of MW5 and maybe sequel.   They'd need kidnap their team they lost to the new owner for their online projects.

[elf25s]

tbh i would loved to see action take the time at the very end of last succession war continue on for few game years and then drop hints that there is an alien invasion coming give some time and then let the player have the nose rubbed in it with first encounter with the clans...continue on with it for a bit then conclude with end of smoke jaguars being exterminated....
what this game needs is a map like in MW3 that let you direct and order your lance mates to go to check points you marked on the map

[VanVelding]

I'd rather that if they can't improve the AI. I died and I watched a friendly bot Firestarter do wind sprints in the backfield while another player with no armor left had to take on the last few bad guys alone. We won, but it was frustrating to watch.

[elf25s]

ok found a repair bay mid on nexus...installed it and guess what? game is actually playable now when bays show up at random

[BATTLEMASTER]

I downloaded the Clan Invasion mod and the other mods heavily associated with it and it's ruined MWO for me forever.

It's really fun driving a Dire Wolf around without having to worry about ghost heat and just vaporizing targets smaller than a heavy 'mech in one hit  >:D  The E and T configurations are really good at this!

The mod isn't perfect but it's pretty much one step closer for me to dump MWO and just stick with shooting up AI in MW5.  The only things I wish I could do now is have star vs company battles, combined arms and all.  Unfortunately I can only have four 'mechs total in my force, but then I usually deploy with just three like in MW2 :D  Maybe Rise of Rasalhague will change that?

[mechnut450]

I been playing  with a lot of the mods  for the game, I played all the  dlc so far and the main story 3-4 times.  I like to be able to spend a couple hours a  week to use it to blow off some steam and avoid the online since i suck lol ..

[VanVelding]

I'm lucky enough I can play with friends, we're on our second story playthrough. I wouldn't bother with randos online either. I'd rather try out different 'mechs and practice how to whittle off an enemy cockpit with quad AC/2's. That's relaxation.

[Wrangler]

Additionally, there now talk of new game. Either follow on of MW5 or something new.  Just not MWO.   Their hiring again,  which doesn't bode well to getting the team made MW5 back.