Tell me about...the Essex-class Destroyer

[Alan Grant]

I'm trying to understand the Essex-class Destroyer better. Best tactics for how to use her, strengths and weaknesses etc.

I'm also wondering if everything about her entry in TRO 3057 revised is accurate. The SL and Clan versions are almost spot-on identical except for ASFs/small craft/cargo and the Clan version having Lithium Fusion Batteries. But the notes say the SL version has 306 tons of armor and the Clan version has 262.5 tons of armor. Yet the armor profile is unchanged.

Any help is appreciated.

[Liam's Ghost]

The clan version carries clan grade armor, while the star league version carries inner sphere grade armor. This is a result of her twisty and only partly rules based design lineage.

As she was originally built by the Star League, her primary strength was that the League built a lot of her. The Essex is a definite improvement over her long line of predecessors, but she's not really a match one on one for any of the home built destroyers among the house fleets.

But then, the Essex as a class outnumbered entire house fleets by three or four to one, and in general the League didn't like operating ships on their own (probably both because of what happened to the Saint Joan and because they didn't really have to). So at the very least, the Essex would have operated in pairs or it groups of four.

[Chinless]

I'm also wondering if everything about her entry in TRO 3057 revised is accurate. The SL and Clan versions are almost spot-on identical except for ASFs/small craft/cargo and the Clan version having Lithium Fusion Batteries. But the notes say the SL version has 306 tons of armor and the Clan version has 262.5 tons of armor. Yet the armor profile is unchanged.

Clan Improved Ferro-Aluminum armor is more efficient than the Inner Sphere version, so the same amount of armour weighs less.

Chris

[Weirdo]

The Essex and Lola III are interesting in that they take two very different approaches to destroyer operations. The Lola is very much a generalist and escort, well suited to engaging a variety of threats in many directions. The Essex is a ship-killer, pure and simple. Just get the target into a fore quarter and the Long range bracket, maneuver as needed to keep them there, and let rip until the target is gone.

A wolfpack of them is a major threat even to battleships. And if you look at the super-destroyers that the Houses built and want to call them superior, remember that a wolfpack is exactly what each Davion II or Narukami is gonna have to face if they choose to tangle with the SLN.

[Liam's Ghost]

I think that even one on one, an Essex would do enough damage to a Narukami or Davion II before it goes down that the opponent would have to be taken off the line for extensive repairs. And let's not forget that the Great Houses don't use super destroyers exclusively. They tend to rely primarily on prior-generation Hegemony ships, which a single Essex can fight on an equal footing or outright overmatch.

But yeah, a lot of things would have probably gone wrong if they were actually just fighting one Essex. Maybe during the first succession war, with the SLDF out of the picture and the houses getting their hands on a handful of modern Essex class destroyers...

[Alan Grant]

So in the 3050s-60s the Essex just isn't that effective? Thinking about the two in the FWL Navy, the Com Guards have several, the Clans many...

I'm really trying to think about how to employ one of them effectively in the 3050s-3060s era, alone or as part of a small group of warships. If it helps to narrow down what I'm driving at. I probably should have been more specific in my original post. Although the context of other eras is helpful as well.

[Liam's Ghost]

I think during most of the clan invasion era, the Essex is best used as an armed transport and deterrence platform. Up until about the Jihad, a lot of the same concepts apply as during the Star League era. The clans might not be able to consistently field the ship in groups, but their opponents in the Inner Sphere have very little if anything at all to counter a warship with. The Essex will happily murder assault dropships all day, and while she might struggle with fighters, she can make sure they have no ride home pretty aggressively.

The houses eventually have a few WarShips, and many of these are up to handling an Essex in a straight up fight, BUT the Essex will still hurt them right back. And because the amount of damage naval weapons can do climbs so much faster than even a well armored ship can resist, the essex can hurt a lot of her potential opponents a whole lot before going down.

So it's the same question. Do we risk having one of our precious few ships put out of action for an extended period just to kill one of the enemy's much more numerous fleet?

[Liam's Ghost]

Beyond the question "can we afford to spend what we need to kill it" and going straight to the point of "how does it stack up in the '50s and '60s", honestly, by the Jihad not that well.

By that point, there are enough capital assets (and nuclear weapons) in play that you can't really hope deterrence will work, and the numbers are balanced enough that you can't guarantee superiority in numbers. At that point the Essex can only rely on what she herself brings to the table. I want to say she's somewhat middle of the road in her weight class, but that's only because that weight class includes the Eagle and much older less capable hulls the Word of Blake pulled out of mothballs.

She can probably handle most capital ships smaller than her, as well as things like the Baron, Carson, and Naga.

The Eagle has a hefty broadside, but it's very flimsy. I think you'd see a lot more mutual destruction events than either side would be comfortable with, even though for the most part I'd expect the Eagle's guns to outrun the Essex's hull most of the time.

A Lola III would probably have the advantage. A York or Riga II definitely, because they have large aerogroups that the Essex simply doesn't.

Larger ships? the odds for the poor Essex are mighty thin, but that shouldn't be a surprise.

Over all, she's a ship built for a different time.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Essex showed an acute vulnerability to escape pods that had been packed with explosives.

[Cannonshop]

So in the 3050s-60s the Essex just isn't that effective? Thinking about the two in the FWL Navy, the Com Guards have several, the Clans many...

I'm really trying to think about how to employ one of them effectively in the 3050s-3060s era, alone or as part of a small group of warships. If it helps to narrow down what I'm driving at. I probably should have been more specific in my original post. Although the context of other eras is helpful as well.

ahem..."WITH SUPPORT" is how you employ a single, solo, Essex.

That is to say, you want a group of jumpships carrying supporting dropships and fighter-carriers to cover the flanks and screen ahead.

it's basically the same way a smart person employs a solo Alacorn on the ground-with other units screening it and covering its flanks.  The essex class doesn't have the broadside or stern armament, so it needs other units to cover those angles, and while it's quick, that's also quick-to-get-mired into a vulnerable position.  With adequate support, it's a force multiplier, but by itself, it's going to be less effective than several other designs in the same weight class.

[Weirdo]

So in the 3050s-60s the Essex just isn't that effective? Thinking about the two in the FWL Navy, the Com Guards have several, the Clans many...

EXTREMELY effective. Most of the post-League designs can barely bracket at all, and a lot of them have the bulk of their firepower petering out when you get beyond Medium range. One on one, an Essex will absolutely eat a Fox, Eagle, or Impavido for lunch. I can't say of the top of my head how it might fare against a Tatsumaki or Kyushu.

A York is tricky. I'm going to assume you weren't dumb enough to take one on alone and brought support to deal with the air wing, so just looking at empty ship vs empty ship... Like the previously mentioned ships, the York's firepower is very low at Long range where the Essex shines. Downside is the combination of heavy armor to survive the Essex's hammerblows, the thrust to close even if the Essex tries to pull back, and the heavy forward guns that can very easily end a fight in just a few turns. I'd say a fight between the two could go either way, depending on how lucky the Essex is during the long range fight vs how lucky the York is in the brawl - it's all a question of who manages to land 2-3 solid hits on the same armor facing first.

[Sjhernan3060]

The Essex showed an acute vulnerability to escape pods that had been packed with explosives.

Lol yes I support this niche comment

[marauder648]

As was pointed out the Essex II is a real ship killer, the Lola's faster, and has arguably superior long range guns with her laser batteries, but the Essex II is a really nasty brawler.

The big advantage that SLN/Clan ships have is that they can bracket fire, which basically the more guns of X type you fire at someone from a single battery, you can get a -1 to hit, going up to -4 IIRC. But this does mean you hit not as hard but it does mean you will more likely hit.

And with NAC-20's belching rounds at you, thats still going to sting.

On the other hand the House Warships whilst they may go "Behold! We have a pair of NL-35s, 1 Medium Naval Gauss and a NAC-40!" none of those can bracket fire and so you're at an immediate range disadvantage.

Its what makes things like the Texas so nasty. Yes she's grossly undergunned for a ship her size, but with those huge NL-55 batteries she can bracket fire you out of existence before you even get a shot off. It was theirs and the McKenna's party piece.

As was also said, you'd never encounter a single Essex, they'd all be bumbling along with friends as part of a destroyer squadron and whilst their AA defences are crap and they have no AMS, they still carry 6 fighters and can use them for self defence.

Its the same in the modern era. You don't use the Star of fighters you've got onboard for strike or attack work, you use them to keep hostile fighters away and let the Essex go BOOM BOOM BOOM! with its NAC's.

[XenopusTex]

This ship reminds me less of a "destroyer" and more of the things destroyers were meant to destroy.  It's effectively an overgrown slower torpedo boat with a bit more range.  It's also amusing that in the late-mid-19th century a mechanism for providing all-around fire for ships was developed, it had a wrong turn at the hellish thing of using an uncovered barbette as a gun tub, the became a death trap on British battlecruisers, and eventually became the automated naval gun turrets of modern warships.  The Battletech warship "turret" seems to be stuck in the range of fire of somewhere around 90 (45 off center)-120(60 off center) degrees.  Even the HMS Rodney with its three forward triple 16" turrets could get better coverage to the sides than the Essex.  Casement guns on warships went out of style in the 20th century, yet, here we are with what is effectively an example of a warship with all forward casemented guns. 

This unit seems like an all-or-nothing swarm attacker that requires a large stash of Dear Sir/Ma'am letters ready to be sent to grieving parents.  Of course, given the horrendous firing arcs of warship "turrets," losses might not be that bad.  Those fearsome HNPPC batteries of the McKenna can't do squat if they can't be brought to bear.  These look to be the zerglings of the Star League navy with the Vincents being the weaker broodlings.

Can't see this ship being worth a nuke.  No AMS, NAC's aren't great against aerospace... drown it in cap-ship missiles, or send some aerospace units over to say hello.

[Alan Grant]

Feels to me like the Essex was built with the high speed engagement pass in mind. Flash past the opponent in a merge. Able to shift the angle of the ship's hull slightly with thrusters, bringing the forward left and bow, or forward right and bow, firepower onto it. Get a brief window of time to fire. The two targets continue on past each other and maybe the rear autocannons get to add to the punishment after the merge.

Then look to swing around and do it again.

SLDF doctrine speaks of the Essex commonly being a leader for a unit of Corvettes.

I'm picturing the Corvettes, like the Vincent using a broader range of tactics, bringing broadsides into arc, rolling to present fresh armor. While the Essex is just charging, turning, charging, the opponent like a bull trying to get you by the horns.

I can also imagine that stacking up 2-3 Essex almost single file, making a high-speed engagement pass on a single, could be very effective and brutal, and might spread out the incoming fire across multiple vessels.

Weirdly I also see it working well with Clan Trials, which pre-WoR were often single ship engagements with pre-determined goals to limit the devastation. That could be "Your warship versus my warship, we engage in one pass, the ship that inflicts the most damage on that pass wins the Trial."

[Weirdo]

Which book talks about it being a corvette leader? Just curious.

[Alan Grant]

Which book talks about it being a corvette leader? Just curious.

The Essex's writeup in TRO 2750 mentions it. But as I re-read it, I see the direct reference "and as a command ship for squadrons of corvettes" is actually referencing the role of the old Essex I class.

In that same writeup later it talks about the newer Essex's computer system being good for coordinating satellites and corvette squadrons along with the ship's own weapons. So, it's more hinted at for the Essex II than directly stated. Whereas it speaks to the Essex I being built with that role in mind.

[Weirdo]

Good enough for me! :thumbsup:

[Alan Grant]

Where are the hangar/launch/recovery bays on an Essex?

I was presuming they were inside the main hull like a third of the way down from the bow. But I have someone telling me he thinks it's that oval shaped almost-superstructure like area on top of the hull (using the TRO 3057r art here). At the highest part of the ship if you are staring at a side profile. With a launch bay facing forward.

[glitterboy2098]

almost has to be on the sides of both the Essex I and II.





the clan refit of the Essex II is somewhat less clear, though since it is supposed to represent later star league built hulls and the clans refit older ships to those specs, the locations ought to be fairly close to the same


i'd guess the bays are still on the side, but the later model/clan version layout puts them behind a folding armor panel or something.

[Weirdo]

Remember that a forward-facing a launch bay is a BAD IDEA. DropShips and WarShips are fast enough that if they're under any kind of thrust at the time of launch, even with a catapult's assistance a fighter has less than a second to divert or accelerate before it smashes into the bow of the carrier racing up behind it.

You want side bays if you intend to launch without shutting down the engines.

[Alan Grant]

That's what I was thinking.

I guess in general we're trying to figure out what that high structure is. What is there.

If you look at some of the side-profile size comparison charts out there. And the mini. It gets very pronounced. Weirdly reminds me of a Star Trek deflector dish or something.

[Weirdo]

Much like the big structures near the bow of a Dreadnought-class*, it's probably just a greeble.

*Seriously, he told me they served no function other than to look cool.

[Weirdo]

Thinking about using an Essex as a corvette leader, this sounds like a really good way to build an Interdiction Squadron. You've got a bunch of light ships to scatter around a planet's orbitals that are as fast or faster than the vast majority of DropShips in existence and easily capable of defending any such ship (assuming Vincents), plus a very large number of small craft to complete the net, and that's not even counting cargo-carried satellites that are probably available in abundance. And if the Essex's computers are as advanced a advertised, it's more than capable of tying everything together, with lightspeed issues being the only hindrance to having a realtime view of the whole thing.

Done smaller, such a group would also make a good component Division within a Pursuit Squadron.

[Luciora]

The top picture is a Vincent.  Unless it was derived from the Vincent? 

3rd edit: might be a really old editorial mistake, its mentioned in the notes.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vincent

almost has to be on the sides of both the Essex I and II.





the clan refit of the Essex II is somewhat less clear, though since it is supposed to represent later star league built hulls and the clans refit older ships to those specs, the locations ought to be fairly close to the same


i'd guess the bays are still on the side, but the later model/clan version layout puts them behind a folding armor panel or something.

[glitterboy2098]

perhaps, but i just used the image from its sarna page, since error or not, it is the current canon appearance.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Essex_I

and to be honest, those old 2750 art versions all look so similar anyway that the essex I could easily look outwardly the same as a Vincent. especially given that the essex was the older of the two classes, so it could well be that the vincent design specs started as a modified Essex I hull form.. (which is the essex I was being used as corvette squadron leaders, might make sense logistically when it came time to replacing aging corvettes. or alternately, the vincent was dersigned to make use of essex production tooling after the essex class was discontinued from production)

[Luciora]

I put forth the question in the Ask the Writers section.

perhaps, but i just used the image from its sarna page, since error or not, it is the current canon appearance.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Essex_I

[Weirdo]

It's because the TRO block for the Essex I in FR: 2765 iforgetthefaction erroneously used the 2750 Vincent art, and they haven't issued any errata yet.

Same for the Riga II, which really should have shown York art.

[Greatclub]

Something to keep in mind is that the 2750 ships were designed for aerotech I, which is a very different system from anything current.

[Luciora]

The Essex and Sovetski Soyuz are 2 of the 3058 redesigns i line more than the original 2750 versions.  Still wondered why the huge art discrepancy happened though.