Rasalhague Dominion: The voting will continue until morale improves!

[Minemech]

 I believe the two are at peace for now. The AFFS are simply too exhausted and broken down to do much more.

[Jellico]

Yes, but the Combine still has to contend with the renewed effort the FedSuns has been making to retake worlds that the Combine captured.

The Combine has the Federated Suns and the Dominion has the rampant Horses, plus whatever the Lyrans are going to attempt closer to Terra, plus the new Red Duke who seems to be a big deal. OTOH the Suns have the Raven Alliance and internal issues to deal with while the Horses ambitions seem to be in the other direction. The point being, for once the table seems to be cleared for the Dominion and Combine to focus on each other

If it comes down to that we are one jump from the Dracs capital and have two super warships with jump batteries. The RasDom navy is willing to do its own thing as per DD if the Khan won’t. I think it’s MAD here on this front.

The Jihad made it very clear that the Combine can function without Luthien. This is the fundamental problem fighting a Successor State. They have so much depth you just keep pushing and pushing into nothing. In contrast the Dominion can free up maybe 10 Clusters for offensive operations while maintaining a practical defensive force in the Dominion. Even if the DCMS remains defensive, Combine credit is good and every two bit merc will be signing on to raid the Dominion.

In contrast you take down Alshain and you gut the Dominion. Hit Rasalhague as well and that is half of the industry warfighting capacity gone. The Dominion is a lot more vulnerable than the Combine. With the Fed Suns in its current state the Combine can afford to take the losses and attrition out a victory that cripples the Dominion for a century. That is what three times the mass and population gets you.


The three times the population is irrelevant as far as democracy is concerned.  The Dominion isn't absorbing the Combine.  What is relevant is about a third of the Dominion is of some kind of Combine heritage and they have just made it clear they aren't happy that the other two thirds receives most of the attention.  Do you really want to be taking on more Combine worlds at this point? They might not be voting immediately but in 20 years they will be. You think they will suddenly lose their culture? In a nation where resisting to protect your culture for 800 years is venerated? The Dominion has to decide what it wants to be.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

So if the Bears take any planets they are expanding the Rasalhague influence to Combine worlds and that might not go over well with the populations. Same would apply in reverse especially since the Rasalhagians have a history of that.

On paper the RD Fleet is better equipped than the DCA. The same could be argued with their armies. Both have been weakened by conflict, reserves might be a bit shallow (more so in the Combine), and their fanaticism will drive them to extremes.

It will be the Nova Cat war all over again.

The only question that remains is: will the IlClan help? Now the Ravens have already shown adventurism into DC space, but who knows what the Wolves want. If the IlKhan approves we could see better support from all associated parties. OTOH if the IlKhan doesn’t care, who knows. At that point the AFFS could throw in their lot to help attack simply for revenge. They might be at peace but they could easily break that.

I think it will be a purely Dominion affair (Raven attacks non withstanding) and it (hopefully) won’t escalate to a full on war. I hope we don’t go to Luthien (even if it is a jump or two away) because that would poke the Dragon real hard.

[tassa_kay]

Honestly, I hope the Bears do hit Luthien... and I hope the Combine finally delivers them a long-overdue humbling for their trouble. And I say this as a fan. Plus it seems to me like this was what DD was telegraphing to the reader with all of that obnoxious and heavyhanded "the Bears have never lost a war with the Combine" nonsense they made a point to say several times in the book: that Miraborg's "short victorious war" is going to be anything BUT.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Honestly, I hope the Bears do hit Luthien... and I hope the Combine finally delivers them a long-overdue humbling for their trouble. And I say this as a fan. Plus it seems to me like this was what DD was telegraphing to the reader with all of that obnoxious and heavyhanded "the Bears have never lost a war with the Combine" nonsense they made a point to say several times in the book: that Miraborg's "short victorious war" is going to be anything BUT.

That does appear to be the obvious outcome, yes.

[Jellico]

Taking Luthien is easy. It is what you do with it that is the problem. Over the last decade we have seen Luthien fall and New Avalon go twice and TPTB seem to favour extended insurgencies. Why would this be any different?
My issue with it is that it ties down too many troops. You could easily trap a Galaxy there or more. Remember you only have 10ish Clusters. The big war suddenly looks very small. Not great from a story PoV.

On paper the RD Fleet is better equipped than the DCA.

Navies are as big as they need to be. The DCA potentially has a lot of large capable assault DropShips if the storyline calls for it. Frankly what was deployed at New Avalon was as bad as Hour of the Wolf.
One Leviathan will almost always have to be at Alshain given the vulnerability of the world to a smash and run attack. the Leviathans are powerful cards but have limitations.

[CJC070]

I got the impression one of the objectives of the iClan era was a resurgence of elements of the  Third Succession War.  Primarily where raids are common and on some planets (definitely NOT counting Luthien) you can hold or invade it with a battalion of troops.  It stands to reason an invasion of Luthien where clusters and regiments are gutted can make a lot of sense.

[VensersRevenge]

The Combine has the Federated Suns and the Dominion has the rampant Horses, plus whatever the Lyrans are going to attempt closer to Terra,

I don't think the Bears have to worry about the Lyrans doing anything to mess up there plans.

[Metallgewitter]

I got the impression one of the objectives of the iClan era was a resurgence of elements of the  Third Succession War.  Primarily where raids are common and on some planets (definitely NOT counting Luthien) you can hold or invade it with a battalion of troops.  It stands to reason an invasion of Luthien where clusters and regiments are gutted can make a lot of sense.

Not to mention the Ghost Bears already lost a third of their forces thanks to Alaric's wounded pride. Now they have a mix of hardend forces and green recruits. If the war goes south (which was basically telegraphed it will) they will loose even more probably leaving them wide open for the Horses to stampede through (and as I said before New Oslo is basically right next to Rasalhague). And from another point: Yori has something to prove: she was at the helm when they destroyed the Nova Cats. Under her rule they swalloed many Republic worlds (started under Vincent Kurita). And while it was under her rule they lost a good portion of their FS conquests those losses are already shifted onto Toranaga. Now she needs something to distract her people with: the "cowardish Bears who always attack us when we are distracted" If she can rouse her people into the Combine fanaticism which basically dictates that surrender is not an option every world the Bears might take will swamp them in blood. And if the Second Dominion-Combine war is any hint the Rasalhagians don't like it when war crimes are comitted by their own nation. a very unlikely scenario: the dominion which was glued by a recent civil war breaks apart for good

[Church14]

Not to mention the Ghost Bears already lost a third of their forces thanks to Alaric's wounded pride. Now they have a mix of hardend forces and green recruits. If the war goes south (which was basically telegraphed it will) they will loose even more probably leaving them wide open for the Horses to stampede through (and as I said before New Oslo is basically right next to Rasalhague). And from another point: Yori has something to prove: she was at the helm when they destroyed the Nova Cats. Under her rule they swalloed many Republic worlds (started under Vincent Kurita). And while it was under her rule they lost a good portion of their FS conquests those losses are already shifted onto Toranaga. Now she needs something to distract her people with: the "cowardish Bears who always attack us when we are distracted" If she can rouse her people into the Combine fanaticism which basically dictates that surrender is not an option every world the Bears might take will swamp them in blood. And if the Second Dominion-Combine war is any hint the Rasalhagians don't like it when war crimes are comitted by their own nation. a very unlikely scenario: the dominion which was glued by a recent civil war breaks apart for good

The invasion so far was basically just Taiga Galaxy. Specifically 3rd and 4th Freeman. During the Bears internal kerfuffle, those units didnt exactly impress anyone. The 4th in particular was called out as incompetently led. So Bears aren’t throwing elite troops towards Luthien. They are throwing loyal to Joiner ideals.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Not to mention the Ghost Bears already lost a third of their forces thanks to Alaric's wounded pride. Now they have a mix of hardend forces and green recruits. If the war goes south (which was basically telegraphed it will) they will loose even more probably leaving them wide open for the Horses to stampede through (and as I said before New Oslo is basically right next to Rasalhague). And from another point: Yori has something to prove: she was at the helm when they destroyed the Nova Cats. Under her rule they swalloed many Republic worlds (started under Vincent Kurita). And while it was under her rule they lost a good portion of their FS conquests those losses are already shifted onto Toranaga. Now she needs something to distract her people with: the "cowardish Bears who always attack us when we are distracted" If she can rouse her people into the Combine fanaticism which basically dictates that surrender is not an option every world the Bears might take will swamp them in blood. And if the Second Dominion-Combine war is any hint the Rasalhagians don't like it when war crimes are comitted by their own nation. a very unlikely scenario: the dominion which was glued by a recent civil war breaks apart for good

Dominion wants Combine planets, not people, they barely even tolerate existing Kuritans in their territory

Rasalhague Dominion turning Combine planets into swamp of blood will probably be preferable outcome for RasDom, if Yori want to play that game RasDom will happily be playing

Second Dominion-Combine war was long ago, those who complained are either retired or dead and current war is just as much Rasalhahue project as it is the Bear one (it wasn't Ghost Bear who came up with it)

Civil War in Dominion was not between Bears and Rasalhague and Rasalhague locals will not have issues with warcriming the Kuritans in ensuing war against Combine, in fact they will be gladly pulling their weight and asking for seconds

[tassa_kay]

I wonder if there is any actual canon to support these wild headcanon claims that the Rasalhagians are suddenly A-OK with bathing the Combine in blood out of absolutely nowhere despite having a historical aversion to that sort of thing. I doubt that there is, but it certainly wouldn't be the first example of out-of-character inconsistency we've seen lately.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Rasalhagians being A-OK with bathing the Combine in blood may be headcanon for now

What is canon is Rasalhagians being A-OK with bathing other Rasalhagians in blood just the other month in-universe

It would be logical to assume that they will not be going any easier on Kuritans than they did on themselves

To say nothing of the fact that going easy on Kuritans always backfired horribly for numerous easygoers across history (example: Feds)

This of course all depends primarily on internal situation in the Combine and how hard Yori is willing to push her luck after New Avalon which the Warlord lost in the name of Coordinator

Long bloody insurgency against RasDom advertises weakness to their neighbors and quick resolution even with losing some planets combined with good PR for the sheeple is preferable to being stuck between angry RasDom, angry Feds, opportunistic Ravens and depending on IKEO angry Wolves & Co

[tassa_kay]

Rasalhagians being A-OK with bathing the Combine in blood may be headcanon for now

Thanks, that's all I needed to confirm.

[DOC_Agren]

Honestly, I hope the Bears do hit Luthien... and I hope the Combine finally delivers them a long-overdue humbling for their trouble. And I say this as a fan. Plus it seems to me like this was what DD was telegraphing to the reader with all of that obnoxious and heavyhanded "the Bears have never lost a war with the Combine" nonsense they made a point to say several times in the book: that Miraborg's "short victorious war" is going to be anything BUT.

This is not going to be short war, unless the Bears stop quick.  Then it is just raiding.

Go ahead take Luthien, got a plan to deal with the locals afterwards?  How many troops are you willing to tie up to make that "peaceful", because it will have insurgencies issues.  At some point the RD troops will have to leave the armored cocoon and be where squishy things die easy.

[Metallgewitter]

Rasalhagians being A-OK with bathing the Combine in blood may be headcanon for now

The Rasalhagians were not ok with the Bears slaughtering civilians during the Combine Dominion war just 50 years prior. In fact it led to a svere break in the system of the Dominion with the elected Prince gaining more sway. So what would it make ok for them now? Especially when it's the Dominion who initiated the war this time? 

[Jellico]

The invasion so far was basically just Taiga Galaxy. Specifically 3rd and 4th Freeman. During the Bears internal kerfuffle, those units didnt exactly impress anyone. The 4th in particular was called out as incompetently led. So Bears aren’t throwing elite troops towards Luthien. They are throwing loyal to Joiner ideals.

The 3rd and 4th were on the border and reasonably intact. Their primary qualification was they were there. There is minimal planning going on.
Who else could go? Alpha is gutted. Beta is securing the peace. Rho is guarding Vega, and Rasalhague has the Horse border.

[Foxx Ital]

I'd send the first princes champion,he helped get us in this mess he gets to go fight it.

[CJC070]

If the war goes south (which was basically telegraphed it will) they will loose even more probably leaving them wide open for the Horses to stampede through (and as I said before New Oslo is basically right next to Rasalhague).

One item of note is that Tamar Rising (or Dominion Divided) makes a mention of the Ghost Bear Watch maybe supplying the Tamar Pact with military supplies in order to distract the Hells Horses.  The is also the fact that the Hells Horses are probably hurting (psychologically) after failing to capture Sudeten in operation Stampede and with all the rogue empires running around they may not want to “unite” the Dominion who even weakened may pound the Hells Horses into the Periphery.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't believe that Tamar Rising ever said that, it just said that the Dominion had arrived in the Pact.  Though it seems to be a reasonable assumption that they'd want to prop up the Pact.

[tassa_kay]

I don't see the Horses antagonizing the Bears right now anyway, even with Fulk Lassanerra running the show now. I think they're going to be focused on the Hinterlands for a while... if they play it smart, anyway. They really don't need any extra attention drawn to them right now, because they're in even worse shape these days than the Bears.

One thing that does annoy me: the loss of the Bear-Horse relationship that Jake Kabrinski was building between the two Clans. I feel like the Horses would've made for interesting allies of the Deniers, enemy of my enemy and all that, and might've even made a difference in how things shook out during DD.

[CJC070]

I don't see the Horses antagonizing the Bears right now anyway, even with Fulk Lassanerra running the show now. I think they're going to be focused on the Hinterlands for a while... if they play it smart, anyway. They really don't need any extra attention drawn to them right now, because they're in even worse shape these days than the Bears.

One thing that does annoy me: the loss of the Bear-Horse relationship that Jake Kabrinski was building between the two Clans. I feel like the Horses would've made for interesting allies of the Deniers, enemy of my enemy and all that, and might've even made a difference in how things shook out during DD.

I don't believe that Tamar Rising ever said that, it just said that the Dominion had arrived in the Pact.  Though it seems to be a reasonable assumption that they'd want to prop up the Pact.

It must have been in Dominion Divided but it does make sense since the Lyrans and Ghost Bears have had a more positive relationship (compared to the Combine).  I can’t wait for a 10 or 25 year update to see how many Ghost Bear mechs and tanks are interspersed with the Tamar Pact.

I don't see the Horses antagonizing the Bears right now anyway, even with Fulk Lassanerra running the show now. I think they're going to be focused on the Hinterlands for a while... if they play it smart, anyway. They really don't need any extra attention drawn to them right now, because they're in even worse shape these days than the Bears.

One thing that does annoy me: the loss of the Bear-Horse relationship that Jake Kabrinski was building between the two Clans. I feel like the Horses would've made for interesting allies of the Deniers, enemy of my enemy and all that, and might've even made a difference in how things shook out during DD.

Personally the long term Bear- Horse relationship would only make them frenemies at best.  Now with Alaric refusing to acknowledge the Ghost Bears announcement to join I can see a closer alliance. 

One realization after mulling over Alarics announcement I feel he rejected the Ghost Bears not because how close the voting was but because how far (in his view) the Ghost Bears fell.  Despite being more freeborn than trueborn (in both nature and nurture) Alaric has a high opinion of Clan and only Clans.  Maybe it’s just me but he uses freeborns in his touman but among his council he only surrounds himself with trueborns.  (If I’m wrong please correct me).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It must have been in Dominion Divided but it does make sense since the Lyrans and Ghost Bears have had a more positive relationship (compared to the Combine).

Nothing helps relationships like having someone you don't share a border with but whom shares a border with a common enemy.

[Metallgewitter]

Dominion Divided had a short battle report that the Bears encountered a Tamar Pact unit during one of their raids and that they might be recpetive of friendly overtures as the Tamar Pact was closely aligned with the old Republic. They also learned that the Pact now owns Pandora.

I can see the Horses try something against the Dominion simply to keep their forces in shape. Unlike the Bears the Horses still have a full touman with experience which might be handy for winning trials of possesion (as long as they don't go overboard). Yes the failure at Sudeten hurt their pride but who knows what Lassenara might try next. Heck if Alaric scolds the Bears again we might get a revival of the Horse and Bear alliance. After all some in the Dominion viewed the Horses as being correct after Alaric had denied their first join request.

[Jellico]

I don't believe that Tamar Rising ever said that, it just said that the Dominion had arrived in the Pact.  Though it seems to be a reasonable assumption that they'd want to prop up the Pact.

Propping up the Tamar Pact is a smart play because it keeps the Lyrans off the border (one successor state is enough) and the Horses off Pandora (God help everyone if they add Pandora and Sudeten to the Wolf OZ assets). I am not sure smart plays are an option at the moment. 

[nova_dew]

Let's be real, what's going to happen between the Bears and Combine is whatever TPTB want, numbers mean nothing, if we're meant to lose we will, if the Combine is, it will. One of the things the Beamers have brought up is the amount of Clusters that need keeping track of and wanting to reduce them, that might give hints as to whats going to happen to us, and possibly the Wolves too since they're somewhat swollen in size with freebirth and WiE units.

TPTB know how we fans can react to plot armour and I suspect a lot of the Wolves newer units exist so that they can take a beating in making the nth League a thing, while keeping both sides happier than Wolves auto win because Wolves.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

I thought the direction for the Bears was this: Alaric slaps them in the face, they have an identity crisis, loose units in infighting, now wanting to attack the Combine. But apparently the joiners have won and the Dominion is joining the new Star League ? (As like it or not, he does need the Bears)

Also, what does TPTB mean ?

[Orwell84]

I thought the direction for the Bears was this: Alaric slaps them in the face, they have an identity crisis, loose units in infighting, now wanting to attack the Combine. But apparently the joiners have won and the Dominion is joining the new Star League ? (As like it or not, he does need the Bears)

Also, what does TPTB mean ?

TPTB = The Powers That Be, shorthand for the people who actually control BattleTech. If I’m not mistaken their responsibilities include deciding what new products to create and how various story arcs will unfold, to give just two examples.

That does sound like where the Dominion is headed. Personally, I hope they do emerge triumphant over the Combine. Not by annexing huge swathes of territory and hostile new subjects, but rather by delivering a coup de grace to the already-weakened DCMS so all will know the Bear and Sea Serpent are stronger than the Dragon
Or for a smaller victory Luthien doesn’t need to be held, just sacked and the bear flag raised above the Imperial Palace.

Hey, a Rasalhague fan can dream 

[Minemech]

 I think that there is a grave misunderstanding amongst the Clan fanbase. The Combine is not weakened, the Coordinator intentionally set Toranaga up to fail. This has been a major frustration for the Federated Suns fanbase in other threads. The Combine is unequivocally the strongest power in their region. It is true that the Suns launched a highly successful offensive, but that was due to intrigue, not a lack of capability and the Suns are in tatters. The Capellan Confederation and the Draconis Combine are the superpowers of Dark Age. The Combine is still quite a bit weaker than the Confederation.

[nova_dew]

I think that there is a grave misunderstanding amongst the Clan fanbase. The Combine is not weakened, the Coordinator intentionally set Toranaga up to fail. This has been a major frustration for the Federated Suns fanbase in other threads. The Combine is unequivocally the strongest power in their region. It is true that the Suns launched a highly successful offensive, but that was due to intrigue, not a lack of capability and the Suns are in tatters. The Capellan Confederation and the Draconis Combine are the superpowers of Dark Age. The Combine is still quite a bit weaker than the Confederation.

The Combine was weakened, the dissolving of Units shows it, but it's covering it's weakness correctly, it's using the people from those units to train and sure up the Ashigaru Regiments and other more mainline forces with fiercely loyal and veteran Soldiers.

What I could see Yori doing is a Theodore and creating a buffer so she can deal with the Bears, say give former Suns worlds they still hold to the Ravens and the 3rd/4th/69th League, not only would it give worlds to the League but it will also create internal tensions in three and a bit states, Combine with "Those worlds are ours, we shouldn't have gave them up", Suns with "Those Worlds are ours, we should take them back, but the Wolves and Ravens", Ravens with "Cool these are ours, oh the Combine and Suns want them", Alaric/Wolves with "Woo semi legitimacy... between two states that would happily grab them if they even smell weakness".