Protomech carriers?

[trboturtle]

Is there an APC-like vehicle for carrying Protomechs? Or are they treated like 'Mechs and go everywhere under their own power?

Craig

[WONC]

Not that I'm aware of. There is, however, the magnetic clamp system created by The Society that allows an OmniMech to carry two of them (or one ultraheavy.) Never tried them out personally, though.

[tassa_kay]

In my Hell's Horses unit, I use OmniMechs and QuadVees to cart Protos around in little makeshift Novas, and it works out pretty damn great. (Credit to Kojak for introducing me to this fun little tactic.)

[wantec]

OmniMechs make great ProtoMech transports. With the release of RS3150 we have 9 different ProtoMechs with the Mechanical Clamp System (Cecerops 5, Centaur Z, Procyon Z, Roc Z, Gorgon 5, Minotaur Z, Minotaur P2, Hobgoblin, and Hobgoblin 2).

If the ProtoMech is 9 tons or less any Mech can carry up to 2 Protos (front CT and rear CT). If it's over 9 tons, Mechs can only carry a single Proto on the front CT. If the Mech doing the carrying is an Omni it doesn't take as much of a speed penalty for carrying a Proto. The speed penalty varies depending on how much tonnage of Protos is carried.

For OmniMechs, you subtract 3 tons from the tonnage of each ProtoMech (to a min of 0) before calculating the total tonnage of Protos carried. Up to 10% of the Mech's tonnage is no speed decrease. Then 10% to 25% is either -3MP or 50% decrease (round faster) to your walk and recalculate the run. You take which ever number gets your Mech faster. Over 25% of the Mech's tonnage is a 50% walk MP (round faster). For the 50% it would mean a 7/11 Mech becomes 4/6.

Depending on what ProtoMech(s) you want to carry you get some interesting (to me) choices for best transports, it ends up being OmniMechs that are fast for their tonnage. The Phantom, Ice Ferret, Viper, Black Lanner, Gargoyle/Naga/Naga II show up a bunch. And the Cephalus, Fire Moth, and Wulfen, are just so fast in general, they show up a bunch despite the speed reductions.

I even made a spreadsheet to track what are the best options & combos.

[Gaiiten]

OmniMechs make great ProtoMech transports. With the release of RS3150 we have 9 different ProtoMechs with the Mechanical Clamp System (Cecerops 5, Centaur Z, Procyon Z, Roc Z, Gorgon 5, Minotaur Z, Minotaur P2, Hobgoblin, and Hobgoblin 2).

If the ProtoMech is 9 tons or less any Mech can carry up to 2 Protos (front CT and rear CT). If it's over 9 tons, Mechs can only carry a single Proto on the front CT. If the Mech doing the carrying is an Omni it doesn't take as much of a speed penalty for carrying a Proto. The speed penalty varies depending on how much tonnage of Protos is carried.

For OmniMechs, you subtract 3 tons from the tonnage of each ProtoMech (to a min of 0) before calculating the total tonnage of Protos carried. Up to 10% of the Mech's tonnage is no speed decrease. Then 10% to 25% is either -3MP or 50% decrease (round faster) to your walk and recalculate the run. You take which ever number gets your Mech faster. Over 25% of the Mech's tonnage is a 50% walk MP (round faster). For the 50% it would mean a 7/11 Mech becomes 4/6.

Depending on what ProtoMech(s) you want to carry you get some interesting (to me) choices for best transports, it ends up being OmniMechs that are fast for their tonnage. The Phantom, Ice Ferret, Viper, Black Lanner, Gargoyle/Naga/Naga II show up a bunch. And the Cephalus, Fire Moth, and Wulfen, are just so fast in general, they show up a bunch despite the speed reductions.

I even made a spreadsheet to track what are the best options & combos.

:thumbsup:
Thank you very much.

[idea weenie]

For OmniMechs, you subtract 3 tons from the tonnage of each ProtoMech (to a min of 0) before calculating the total tonnage of Protos carried. Up to 10% of the Mech's tonnage is no speed decrease. Then 10% to 25% is either -3MP or 50% decrease (round faster) to your walk and recalculate the run. You take which ever number gets your Mech faster. Over 25% of the Mech's tonnage is a 50% walk MP (round faster). For the 50% it would mean a 7/11 Mech becomes 4/6.

Now why am I getting the idea of making 3-ton Protomechs, and having a giant swarm of them being carried by a single 20-ton Omnimech that is designed for speed?

[Sjhernan3060]

In my Hell's Horses unit, I use OmniMechs and QuadVees to cart Protos around in little makeshift Novas, and it works out pretty damn great. (Credit to Kojak for introducing me to this fun little tactic.)

Whoa that sounds like some awesome transformers level organization

[wantec]

:thumbsup:
Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

In my Hell's Horses unit, I use OmniMechs and QuadVees to cart Protos around in little makeshift Novas, and it works out pretty damn great. (Credit to Kojak for introducing me to this fun little tactic.)

I like this idea as a force organization tactic, the only problem for me is the two QV Omnis are average/slow for the tonnage. Don't get me wrong, it can still work and be effective, but to get the biggest benefit (compared to the ProtoMech's own speed) you have to be a faster OmniMech/QV. That's why I added the ProtoMech speeds to my spreadsheet. For example, the Boreas, 60 tons, 4/6 tracked, really only benefits a single Minotaur (3/5 or 3/5/5) and it can match speeds for the Cecerops (4/6) and Gorgon (4/6). And the Cecerops it can carry for free since that is only 3 tons. The Notos, 60 tons, 5/8 (6/9 on wheels) is a little better since it increases the speed for all the previously mentioned Protos, matches/exceeds the speed for the Roc, and on wheels can match the Centaur and Procyon.

But there's always the purpose of concealing/disguising your forces that strategy would always work well for. And of course for retrieving damaged units and taking them back home (as long as the clamps still work).

[Natasha Kerensky]

It’s homebrewed, but I’ve used the cargo space on the Clan Cargo Saladin, Flatbed Trucks, and the like to deploy Society quad protomechs into combat.  My headcannon is that explosive bolts on their hold-down chains are blown and the quad protos just walk off into the same hex for 1MP.  The quad protos cannot remount until the scenario is over, and bipedal protomechs cannot be transported this way (too tall or they’d have to stand up under combat).

[Red Pins]

..I use dropchutes and cargo support vehicles for my Proto-equivalents.  I think wiges can carry them as cargo too, but haven't looked into it.

[tassa_kay]

Whoa that sounds like some awesome transformers level organization

Oh, it's great. I've really come to love running Doom Coursers coordinating Stars/Binaries of QuadVees carrying Protos with mag clamps. The Dark Age/ilClan era has been really great as a Hell's Horses Proto player.  :)

[Kojak]

Btw, really underrated Proto transport Omni? The Balius. I know everyone loves to hate on it, but once you learn how to use it correctly (run 7 and drop prone, then stand for free facing any direction and move 7-9 hexes for a +4 TMM every other turn), it's actually a pretty savage lil' Omni. Sure, it's a bit light on firepower, but y'know what helps? Carrying a couple of ProtoMechs. My go-to is the Minotaur Z -- you can fit two on a Balius for no MP loss.

[wantec]

Btw, really underrated Proto transport Omni? The Balius. I know everyone loves to hate on it, but once you learn how to use it correctly (run 7 and drop prone, then stand for free facing any direction and move 7-9 hexes for a +4 TMM every other turn), it's actually a pretty savage lil' Omni. Sure, it's a bit light on firepower, but y'know what helps? Carrying a couple of ProtoMechs. My go-to is the Minotaur Z -- you can fit two on a Balius for no MP loss.

The Balius (and the Linebacker) is a good choice for a single Minotaur. You might want to double-check your math though, a pair of Minotaur Z's is 12 tons of Protos ((9-3) + (9-3)) = (6 + 6) =12. That definitely puts it into the lost MP zone, but a single Minotaur is still in the 10% or less, no MP reduction area.

[Hellraiser]

Is there an APC-like vehicle for carrying Protomechs? Or are they treated like 'Mechs and go everywhere under their own power?

My Protomech APC is an Arcadia Class Dropship :)

[Colt Ward]

I always thought a WiGE or even a Small Craft would be good for this but unfortunately surface transport in BT does not have quick release options- you know like the systems on C-130, etc.  Even though this is described in Dying Time for the GDL moving on a train, AND we get MWDA fiction of mechs assaulting right off trains into prepared defenses.

[Kojak]

The Balius (and the Linebacker) is a good choice for a single Minotaur. You might want to double-check your math though, a pair of Minotaur Z's is 12 tons of Protos ((9-3) + (9-3)) = (6 + 6) =12. That definitely puts it into the lost MP zone, but a single Minotaur is still in the 10% or less, no MP reduction area.

Weird, then I guess MegaMek has it wrong cuz I've been using that combo for a while now -- I tested it again just now to make sure I wasn't misremembering, but when I put two Minotaur Zs on a Balius, no MP loss.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

My Protomech APC is an Arcadia Class Dropship :)

Seconded >:D

Again though, as ilClan era progresses, do you think Proto's going to make a comeback ? Headhunters/behind the lines, Garrison ? Long Range Recon. (Besides the Bear and Ravens) Falcons, New Jags, and Wolves need to rebuild their Toumans. Is the stage being set for Hell's Horses to become "masters" of Protos (reading from Elements of Treason, and Star Captain Peter) ? And be on Par with the Ravens.

[Colt Ward]

I would not expect any of the remaining Clans to get back into Protos, unfortunately.  The Falcons, Jags, and combined Wolves are not short war material- nor do they have a washouts that they had not mechs for due to having the war material.  All 3 are short in the personnel department, which means push the Mechs and BA at the expense of vehicles with more than 2 crew and infantry points as they bring the most combat power for the purposes.

It is not the recent Elements story that is a big deal, it was the Horse cluster story set in the later Jihad that we had in Shrapnel that is better for the Proto use.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

It is not the recent Elements story that is a big deal, it was the Horse cluster story set in the later Jihad that we had in Shrapnel that is better for the Proto use.

I loved that story, really evolved the Proto fiction, and sets the stage for any future stuff

[Hellraiser]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Horses &/or Ravens were used to keep protos alive in fiction/game.

[cmerwin]

My Protomech APC is an Arcadia Class Dropship :)

To second this, the Arcadia-class was specifically designed for Protomechs. Admittedly, its BV is pretty high for gaming purposes.

[Colt Ward]

It is also, IIRC, a pretty decent gunship

[Hellraiser]

APC  =   Arcadia Protomech Carrier

And yeah, its a beast of an gunship too.

[Wrangler]

Aside from piggybacking on Omnimech my or quadvee, there no ground vehicle dedicated to transporting them.

There would have to be a variant of an existing combat vehicle that could transports them like battle armor bays and such to be able to do something close to that? Maybe like a cargo Mecha some kind like the Uni CargoMech.  ProtoMech transports could be used for other u it's as oversized Clan BattleMech carrier.

It depends when too, really the only thing that's going to happen is that it'll be a retro on of having the vehicle added in the background then the Clans just didn't really build a lot of them because well they weren't really utilizing ProtoMechs, due to the associated issues of fluff productions issues and short life span of the pilots. 

I really do think their useful depending on situation, for the slower and heavier models having a Combat Vehicle Transport would be practical transportation means.  Smaller one can just keep pace with existing forces since speeds are comparable.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

What about Skadi's (VTOL) ? Modified with clamp system, first wave goes in, and in the middle Skad's flood in and drop Proto's

[JAMES_PRYDE]

My Protomech APC is an Arcadia Class Dropship :)

Could an Arcadia Class be used to make a strafing run, once engagement starts and do a hot drop of Proto's ?

[Hellraiser]

I know DS could back in the AT days, so I assume it can in TW rules.

[Wrangler]

I know DS could back in the AT days, so I assume it can in TW rules.

General original poster's question is there a ground vehicle for protomechs to be transported.   As far I can tell, there aren't any.  Unless they have a Prime Mover (I know Clans use them, see Roar of Honor novel). 

[Hellraiser]

General original poster's question is there a ground vehicle for protomechs to be transported.   As far I can tell, there aren't any.  Unless they have a Prime Mover (I know Clans use them, see Roar of Honor novel).

No, Cargo Vees is it, nothing w/ a Proto Bay to my knowledge, hence my original answer saying I only move them in an Arcadia :)