Fight Night - Regent Prime VS Gargoyle C

[Greatclub]

this isn't exactly a random pairing; they're the assault minis in the GDL box coming out soon (tm) and they're about the same BV

My take; the garg has a very good chance on maps like open terrain or even some with more trees, but as soon as it's mobility starts getting restricted but sight-lines aren't, it's toast.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Garg has somewhat more damage potential, inflicts higher movement modifiers, and is much more mobile.

Regent has almost 80 more armor points.

Assuming the Garg player is experienced and maps are standard, I’d give it to the Garg most of the time.  The Garg’s movement modifiers largely negate the Regent’s additional armor.  And the Garg can outmaneuver the Regent to focus firepower on the Regent’s side or rear.

If on city maps or the like, then it’s more of a toss-up as the Garg can’t exploit its movement modifiers.

[Vonshroom]

Man, I've got to give it to the Regent on this one (by a fair margin). Admittedly I have not played the Regent yet, but coming from an avowed Hauptmann user the Regent prime is a vastly product improved Hauptmann and I wouldn't be scared to run the old Haupt Prime against a Gargoyle C.

The Regent has the armoring advantage by a big margin, including a STD Engine, and way better crit packing / padding. Also it has CASE II for its ammo bins which are going to make a big difference. The only location with ammo is the LT which has 28 points of armor + CASE II protecting it, and all locations are filled meaning decreased odds of a crit hitting a bin. Considering the fairly shallow bins for the LB20X odds are only the Streaks will be left once the armor starts getting way low. It can also afford to lose the LA from an ammo explosion, and LT and keep going with 2 CL ERLLaser and a medium Pulse. This lets the LT take a shot from the Ultra and a ERMLaser or 4 ERMlaser hits before going critical. This lets the Regent take a beating and keep going, but if the Garg loses either its Legs, LT, RT, RA or LA it is going to be hurting and bad. The Regent can lose one or more of these locations before it loses its battlefield advantage (assuming it gets some hits in return). 

Comparatively the Gargoyle has 24 points protecting its LT and only 23 protecting the cannon in the LA and bank of mediums in the RA. This means a single LB20X SLD hit or a pair of ERLLaser hits and the Gargoyle is really going to have to worry about getting slapped with some LBX clusters or Streaks for crit seeking lack of case, inferior crit padding and the XL engine all make the Gargoyle way more vulnerable to return fire. By the time the Gargoyle gets close enough to scrap the Regent there is going to be some holes from those CL ERLLasers if those holes are in the LA, RA, or LT the Garg is in serious trouble. Half again as much armor on the legs, and CT in favor of the Regent tip the scales even more. It wont be long before the Gargoyle starts losing motive points after a leg hit or two. Considering it can only generate a +3 THM on a run, while adding +2 back to hit I don’t see the big advantage there on the numbers game but the Gargoyle HAS to be running full tilt to win, and ideally maneuver out of the front firing arc of its opponent. The Regent can afford to move or stay static if the position is favorable to it / good.

I see this as the Regents fight to lose.  A few lucky hits or improper positioning by the Regent could be its downfall, so its not a huge overmatch, but the Gargoyle looks outclassed to me, further the amount of 10 point + guns on the Regent and the ability to bring those to bear faster and at a greater range have a big impact too. With smart positioning on the Regent’s behalf the Gargoyle is going to need to depend on lucky initiative rolls and good hits, it will die fast trading fire in a “fair fight.”
 

With 38 Heat Sinking the Regent can run and throw 3 CL ERL for 0 heat. By the time the the Gargoyle can use its battery of ERML the Regent has a medium range mod for 3 x 10 point guns firing every turn for 0 heat on a run. The Gargoyle needs to run and stay in between the range of the Regents close range guns (12 hexes) and its own 15 hex (max range) where it can fire all 6 ERML for 42 damage, but its playing with fire, because if it steps inside the crit seeking range of the Regent after a hole or two is opened up…

So the Gargoyle loses beyond 15 Hexes, the Gargoyle loses up close (if it has a hit or two on it by the time it gets there) unless it gets lucky, and the Gargoyle loses if it loses initiative rolls or doesn’t keep the THM up…..

[Colt Ward]

Couple flaws in your analysis . . .

The Garg C is a Clan mech, so it has CASE at every location.  Clan XL engine and the Garg has 'too many fixed' DHS, so taking a engine crit does not drastically change it's behavior.  The legs, which are critical to it's movement ability to close it has three A-Pods between the legs . . . while I think they are wasted space normally, it DOES pad the leg actuators.

I do think you are right that winning initiative will matter, but as others have said- so does the maps in play.

[Vonshroom]

Couple flaws in your analysis . . .

The Garg C is a Clan mech, so it has CASE at every location.  Clan XL engine and the Garg has 'too many fixed' DHS, so taking a engine crit does not drastically change it's behavior.  The legs, which are critical to it's movement ability to close it has three A-Pods between the legs . . . while I think they are wasted space normally, it DOES pad the leg actuators.

I do think you are right that winning initiative will matter, but as others have said- so does the maps in play.

I wasn't trying to imply the Garg didn't have CASE, rather it lacks the added protection of the CASE II the Regent DOES take advantage of. I find that advantage to be significant for this fight, but I can see with how I worded my earlier reply why you could read that.

The Clan XL does help, but still its not as tanky as a STD engine and the Garg only has crit slots in the upper portion of the LT ( case protected) so a hit there to the ammo bin (1/3 chance) destroys not only the LBX and ammo but also inflicts two engine hits. The CASE II more effectively protects the Regent and with the crit padding there is a 1/2 change that a crit to the LT won't even result in a chance to hit the ammo bearing locations. In the event that an ammo hit does happen the CASE II and crit packed LT will weather the storm better.

Sure the single A Pod in each leg does help pad the legs somewhat but the Gargoyle is taking crits there so much faster with the lower armor thresholds, and it is imperative for this fight that the Gargoyle doesn't lose that mobility advantage.

The terrain will absolutely make a difference. On a more open map or a more restrictive movement map the Regent has the field. If the Gargoyle has a mostly open path to run with lots of screening obstructions to block LOS at ranges beyond 15 hexes it has favorable terrain, however most maps don't favor the Gargoyle in my opinion.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Regent outranges the Man O' War by a considerable amount and has better heat dissipation and significantly better crit padding.  Its main weakness is that it can't bring much of its firepower to bear on an enemy that gets behind it, which is a problem if the Man O' War gets close and wins initiative for a couple of rounds.

However, the Man O' War concentrates (almost) all of its firepower into its arms, which means that if it loses an arm, it loses half its offensive ability.  Same goes if the autocannon jams.  It's got to get into 10 hexes or less to really be dangerous, preferably within 8 hexes.  That means that if the lines of sight are open it's probably going to be taking at least one or two turns of fire from the Regent before it can really respond.  And once the Man O' War's armor gets opened up, the Regent can easily crit-seek with cluster ammo and SSRMs, which is pretty bad for the Man since it has very little crit packing.

Overall, I say this is advantage to the Regent unless the Man O' War gets really good initiative rolls.

[Vonshroom]

The Regent outranges the Man O' War by a considerable amount and has better heat dissipation and significantly better crit padding.  Its main weakness is that it can't bring much of its firepower to bear on an enemy that gets behind it, which is a problem if the Man O' War gets close and wins initiative for a couple of rounds.

However, the Man O' War concentrates (almost) all of its firepower into its arms, which means that if it loses an arm, it loses half its offensive ability.  Same goes if the autocannon jams.  It's got to get into 10 hexes or less to really be dangerous, preferably within 8 hexes.  That means that if the lines of sight are open it's probably going to be taking at least one or two turns of fire from the Regent before it can really respond.  And once the Man O' War's armor gets opened up, the Regent can easily crit-seek with cluster ammo and SSRMs, which is pretty bad for the Man since it has very little crit packing.

Overall, I say this is advantage to the Regent unless the Man O' War gets really good initiative rolls.

My thoughts exactly, although ironically the Gargoyle has a slight advantage firepower wise if it can stay at 13-15 Hexes. By the time 2 of those Clan ERL hit the same location the LB-20X and crit seekers are going to bring some pain. Also the UAC can jam.

The biggest overmatch the clans had were their superior weapons (Ranges / weight / damage) but once you start running clan tech weapons on IS chassis that overmatch really starts to disappear.

[Vonshroom]

Funny thing the Regent reminds me a lot of a overgunned and slower Kingfisher, which I think most people would agree is an example of a mech that could handedly beat the Gargoyle C. 

I think the Regent is falling victim to the "new kid on the block" mentality.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

My thoughts exactly, although ironically the Gargoyle has a slight advantage firepower wise if it can stay at 13-15 Hexes.

Yeah, but hovering at that range is going to be difficult, plus it's got to deal with the fact that its lasers are at long range while the Regent's are at medium and the Regent's much better armor enabling it to accept trading shots much more easily than the Man O' War can.

[Arkansas Warrior]

The Gargoyle's going to need low sightlines but not too many terrain obstacles that would slow it down, and then still needs to get lucky with rolls on its UAC.  The Regent outranges it, outguns it, has better ammo endurance, better energy weapons if ammo runs out, more armor, CASE II, guns in the torso...gonna be tough sledding for the Garg.


If the fight runs long, the Regent wins, because the Garg is either out of ammo or had its arms shot off.  If the Garg gets lucky with some UAC doubletaps or lucky placement (like a headshot or TAC), it can win.