GenCon 2023 Diorama Discussion

[Decoy]

New Home would make more sense for a Capellan offensive as New Earth is right next to Terra and would be a real surprise as it's closer to the Lyran side of the IS.

[Colt Ward]

New Home makes a lot more sense- it is Cappie side of Terra.

[Metallgewitter]

New Home would make more sense for a Capellan offensive as New Earth is right next to Terra and would be a real surprise as it's closer to the Lyran side of the IS.

That bears the question: who actually owns New Earth right now? If it's on the Lyran side I would assume the Falcons but they are..well..mostly dead. The Wolves are in current time (Dominions Divided) on Terra only. Is this perhaps a refuge for Republic units? Or did the Lyrans realize that some planets are open for grabs? After all New Earth makes a nice addition in terms of it's still potent military industry

[Church14]

That bears the question: who actually owns New Earth right now? If it's on the Lyran side I would assume the Falcons but they are..well..mostly dead. The Wolves are in current time (Dominions Divided) on Terra only. Is this perhaps a refuge for Republic units? Or did the Lyrans realize that some planets are open for grabs? After all New Earth makes a nice addition in terms of it's still potent military industry

In EA, New Earth was RotS as of Jan 3151.

Wolves took it and found the Fidelis just before Terra (Children of Kerensky IIRC), which means they took it basically right after the first map in EA.

So if the diorama is new earth, it means Capellans took the system sometime between late January 3151 and November 3151.

[Geg]

Crap...  How do you make small?

[Colt Ward]

After Image type 'width=500' without the quotations

[Geg]

After Image type 'width=500' without the quotations

Thanks!

The label on the diorama is clearly Tau Citi IV aka New Earth, while the FB post says New Home.  The mistake is clearly easier to make going from Tau Ceti to New Home, than it is from New Home to Tau Ceti IV, which puts the balance on it being the far more dramatic scene of New Earth.

[Church14]

Hm. Last we saw of House Hiritsu was them sticking it to FedSuns on New Syrtis. Historically, they were usually two veteran battalions. So that’s enough to face a small box art army of clanners.

FM3145 did have them at regular, but we know other units changed ratings between 3145 and 3151. So seems rational they could be veteran GAIN.

[VensersRevenge]

Thanks!

The label on the diorama is clearly Tau Citi IV aka New Earth, while the FB post says New Home.  The mistake is clearly easier to make going from Tau Ceti to New Home, than it is from New Home to Tau Ceti IV, which puts the balance on it being the far more dramatic scene of New Earth.

Agreed unfortunately

[tassa_kay]

Hm. Last we saw of House Hiritsu was them sticking it to FedSuns on New Syrtis. Historically, they were usually two veteran battalions. So that’s enough to face a small box art army of clanners.

FM3145 did have them at regular, but we know other units changed ratings between 3145 and 3151. So seems rational they could be veteran GAIN.

I'd imagine several years of hard fighting against the FedSuns would have that effect, but doubly so because it's a Warrior House and they don't half-ass things.

[Scotty]

I would rather have the bulk of units be Regular with uncommon Veteran units than have everyone and their mother be Elite with some unfortunate handful of very sad units have to sit at the kids table[/i] be stuck at Regular.

[Church14]

I would rather have the bulk of units be Regular with uncommon Veteran units than have everyone and their mother be Elite with some unfortunate handful of very sad units have to sit at the kids table[/i] be stuck at Regular.

In general, I agree.

But Warrior houses are supposed to be crack units.

[Colt Ward]

In general, I agree.

But Warrior houses are supposed to be crack units.

Eh this is where reg/vet/elite breaks down . . . a unit can be veteran with a bunch of regular guys, the whole sum of more than it's parts.  Veteran/Elite really comes down to how they respond/work as a team, IE- can they take a shock and still drive on?

[Scotty]

That's what the other half of a unit's rating is for.

[Colt Ward]

That's what the other half of a unit's rating is for.

Except it is not, depending on the book- and MOST of them are about loyalty to the faction they are identified with.  FREX, the Regulan Hussars have had elite regiments in the past that were questionable- because they were not big Marik supporters.  FMCC/WC explicitly states it is about the Crusader/Warden divide and players should take it as a given the Clan units are fanatically loyal to their Clan across the board- as demonstrated when Ulric used the Crusaders to kill their ideological kin in the Falcons.

But there is a massive difference between a collection of exceptional individuals and some above average experienced troops who have spent time training together.  Biggest example is there is a difference in performance between a Nova vs a Star of mechs & a Star of BA- or between a Cappie augmented lance vs a lance of mechs assigned a pair of vehicles to support them.

[Scotty]

Loyalty to a faction is ability to take a shock and continue to fight.  Questionable = cut and run when the going gets tough.  A collection of exceptional individuals that have little coherency is Veteran/ or Elite/Questionable.

If a book is not using it like this, and I think you'd have to bring up some pretty compelling proof that they aren't, then that book is doing it incorrectly.

[VensersRevenge]

FM 3145 lists the Tsamma Lancers as Questionable because of their opposition to Erik Groell. That has nothing to do with their init coherency. They are explicitly coherent, just in a way that makes them less loyal to the current Prince's Champion.

[Colt Ward]

As I said, FM Crusader Clans and Warden Clans- and the mentioned Regulan Hussars which is listed as Questionable due to their opinion on the Mariks and why the FWLM places them at the bottom of the supply list.

But let's see . . .

FCCW, pg 207- Fanatical (to supplying faction) receives a +2 on rolls for replacement personnel & equipment.  Questionable (same terms) receives a -1 on the rolls.

A newly established mercenary command (less than three
years old), or one that has breached at least one of its past ten
contracts, automatically receives a Questionable reliability rating.
Otherwise, they are considered Reliable. Mercenary commands
that successfully carry out five consecutive offensive contracts for
the same employer increase their reliability rating by one level
(from Questionable to Reliable, or from Reliable to Fanatical).

FM Merc (R) pg 171


Start of 1st Regulan Hussars entry
The attitude of the LCCC toward what is arguably one of the finest fighting units in the Free Worlds League can best be described as ambivalent. While the First Hussars have remained unswerving in their service to the person and office of the Captain-General, the recent reforms intended to centralize and standardize the militaries of the League run contrary to their deep commitment to the fundamental sovereignty of the Principality of Regulus. Though no Regulan Hussar has refused to obey a command, they have been glacially slow in adopting the new reorganization policies.

First full paragraph right column
The LCCC considers the loyalty of the First Regulan Hussars to be questionable at best. They routinely withhold new or recovered technology and seldom honor requisitions. The deficit in supply is made up by the Prince of Regulus, while the lack of tech support has forced the Hussars to become masters of independent self-support.
ER 3052, pg 36

Loyalty Ratings do not indicate loyalty to the Clan; no true warrior holds anything less than fanatical devotion to his or her Clan's interests.  Rather, loyalty represents a unit's devotion to the Warden ideals espoused by all the Clans described in this document.  Questionable units may be those under close scrutiny, but in almost all circumstances can still be trusted to perform at their best for their Clan.
FM Warden Clans pg 19, last paragraph
     FREX, pg 69 Diamond Shark's 42nd Combined Strike Cluster is Vet/Ques b/c the staunchest Crusaders in that galaxy have collected in that cluster
     Warden Wolves' 6th Wolf Guards are Elite/Ques b/c they are the isorla cluster from Op Bulldog

Loyalty Ratings do not indicate loyalty to the Clan; no true warrior holds anything less than fanatical devotion to his or her Clan's interests.  Rather, loyalty represents a unit's devotion to the Crusader ideals espoused by all the Clans described in this document.  Questionable units may be those under close scrutiny, but in almost all circumstances can still be trusted to perform at their best for their Clan.
FM Crusader Clans pg 18, last paragraph

[Metallgewitter]

So if that is really New Earth then how far have the Capellans actually got encircling Terra? I have an old map in front of me and the planets near New Earth are Devil's Rock, Sirius, Procyon, Alula Australis and Graham IV. This would basically mean the Capellans have cut into the Wolf Empire (perhaps in cooperation with the League)

[Colt Ward]

I really wonder if someone got the place wrong since New Home makes a lot more sense.

[Church14]

I really wonder if someone got the place wrong since New Home makes a lot more sense.

What’s so hard to buy about Tau Ceti. Wolves spent five months on Terra from Jan to May taking Terra, and everything we’ve seen hints that Alaric will then use the wall to buy time for repairs and healing troops. We also know that there is basically nothing noteworthy defending the pipeline from Empire to Terra. There’s also no reason to believe Capellans wouldn’t be active while Alaric is stuck on Terra.

Wars are won with logistics and Capellans striking to isolate Terra from the Empire seems like a good start.

I’d find it less believable that Capellans just sat on ass and waited to get punched in the face by Alaric.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

What’s so hard to buy about Tau Ceti. Wolves spent five months on Terra from Jan to May taking Terra, and everything we’ve seen hints that Alaric will then use the wall to buy time for repairs and healing troops. We also know that there is basically nothing noteworthy defending the pipeline from Empire to Terra. There’s also no reason to believe Capellans wouldn’t be active while Alaric is stuck on Terra.

Wars are won with logistics and Capellans striking to isolate Terra from the Empire seems like a good start.

I’d find it less believable that Capellans just sat on ass and waited to get punched in the face by Alaric.

Interesting, if this is so, would be interesting to see if Alaric can pull a Ghost Bear or Raven ace out of his sleeve, if the Empire is compromised. (And perhaps it would "force" the Bears to confront the Horses ?)

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Interesting, if this is so, would be interesting to see if Alaric can pull a Ghost Bear or Raven ace out of his sleeve, if the Empire is compromised. (And perhaps it would "force" the Bears to confront the Horses ?)

That Snow Raven naval star would come in handy for taking out Capelan logistic jumpships

[JAMES_PRYDE]

That Snow Raven naval star would come in handy for taking out Capelan logistic jumpships

I was meaning more planet side, but yeah, really sticking it to the Cappies and cutting them off on the system level would be good too

[Colt Ward]

What’s so hard to buy about Tau Ceti. Wolves spent five months on Terra from Jan to May taking Terra, and everything we’ve seen hints that Alaric will then use the wall to buy time for repairs and healing troops. We also know that there is basically nothing noteworthy defending the pipeline from Empire to Terra. There’s also no reason to believe Capellans wouldn’t be active while Alaric is stuck on Terra.

Wars are won with logistics and Capellans striking to isolate Terra from the Empire seems like a good start.

I’d find it less believable that Capellans just sat on ass and waited to get punched in the face by Alaric.

Because the Cappies own logistics- 3151.


The last books we saw in the Capellan's preparation was Blood Will Tell (ends Sept 3149) and the Gray Watch duo.  The Cappies struck a in 3149, taking 13 worlds & fighting on Northwind with each world struck by between a regiment and a Warrior House up to about 3 regiments with supporting conventional forces.  In Sept 3149, Daoshen is saying he has to gather jumpship, and presumably dropship, assets for taking his armed forces to Terra.  The forward command center is the planet Liao which is where the majority of the units attacking the Republic drew back to after not finding defenders once the Fortress Walls dropped from all but Terra.  The supply dump that had been built up was used running 20 odd mech regiments and multiple supporting conventional regiments against those worlds, and would need to be restocked.  Getting forces to New Earth would be . . . Liao->Nanking->Capolla->Liberty/Carver V->New Earth

But we also know the CCAF is having to deal with problems on the opposite side of the Confederation.  IF everything had been flowing towards Terra, the CCAF will have to divert some of that to handle Andurien & co . . . with Daoshen and the Strategios on Liao they are going to have a troublesome communications loop.


I guess you could say they found the Neo ComGuard designs on the battlefield and deduced they were made on New Earth, investigating that production like they gathered old Celestial information.

[Church14]

And zero things they captured are supplies, production of ammo or armor, mech production, or anything else otherwise useful

[Colt Ward]

I forgot to drop the date for Gray Watch set- starts in Sept 3150 where Xavier McCarron reports back to Sian (even though Daoshen & Strategios moved to Liao to cut the command loop) for the senior general Fisk to ask how Operation Tiamat is going.

Timeline-

Pre Op Tiamat
Feb/March 3149, Hall

Op Tiamat
Wave 1- June 3149
Epsilon Indi, Bryant, Liberty

Wave 2-  October 3149
Procyon, New Home, Keid

March 3150- should be JS probe of the Terran Wall and a outbreak of sabotage in the CCAF regiments staged on Liao to strike at Terra.  Daoshen is supposed to have called a halt to Tiamat and any push on Terra until defenses can be determined.  Epsilon Eridani was the only military production world among those captured.

[tassa_kay]

The battle on New Earth takes place in December 3151, over a year after our last check-in with the Capellans in the former Republic heartland. A lot can happen in a year.

And what Church said makes sense: the Capellans would be foolish if they were just sitting there doing nothing instead of taking advantage of things to start encircling Terra.

I don't see the problem here.

[Metallgewitter]

If I remember the map of Empire Alone correctly the Confederation had no "direct corridor" to the Empire worlds as the League was between a couple of them (for example Devil's Rock, Castor, Pollux). So if that is New Earth and the Capellans have begun to encircle Terra as best as they can (other parts are bordered by the Combine and I think not even the Bears are close to the inner ring) they might have made some agreement with the League to assist in their war with the Empire. Of course as we have an interstellar war borders are an ilusion which will probably lead to some hard strikes into rear areas. The main problem for the Wolves though: no forseeable Wolf reinforcements. Every warrior counts. So if the Confederation decides to play extremely dirty their already dwindled manpower gets another dent.

[tassa_kay]

If I remember the map of Empire Alone correctly the Confederation had no "direct corridor" to the Empire worlds as the League was between a couple of them (for example Devil's Rock, Castor, Pollux).

Nope. Not only are none of those League worlds on either EA map (they're all held by the Wolf Empire), but none of them are between the Capellans and New Earth (they're off to the side). The Cappies can make a jump right from Procyon, Sirius or even Liberty/Carver V to New Earth, as all of them are in CapCon hands and well within JumpShip range.