What about the Nerfs?

[Hammerhead]

So, there have been a few discussions about units that perform better in Alpha Strike as opposed to Classic ( the Quickdraw springs to mind). But what about units that perform worse in Alpha Strike?

I haven’t had enough table time with Alpha Strike to do any kind of analysis, so I’d thought I’d throw it out there; which units suffer in Alpha Strike vs. Classic?

[Charistoph]

My first thought are units which rely on a few crit-fishing weapons to be effective.  If a unit's threat needs to be able to provide many Structure Hits (or chances to roll '2' and '12' for location), but can't provide a lot of high raw damage, then it's definitely neutered.

[Hammerhead]

My first thought are units which rely on a few crit-fishing weapons to be effective.  If a unit's threat needs to be able to provide many Structure Hits (or chances to roll '2' and '12' for location), but can't provide a lot of high raw damage, then it's definitely neutered.

So like missile carriers, or are they just packing to many launchers in those squishy vehicles? Does sheer quantity of crit seekers override this do you think?

[Charistoph]

So like missile carriers, or are they just packing to many launchers in those squishy vehicles? Does sheer quantity of crit seekers override this do you think?

Oh, SRM Carriers and the Arctic Wolf Standard are VERY dangerous because they have a LOT of SRM tubes.

However, the Kintaro KTO-18 or Javelin JVN-10N are not as well served.

[Elmoth]

Big one shot hitters. Gauss rifles, for example, and AC20. These are not as dangerous in AS as in classic. They just add 1 or 2 points of damage to the overall damage of the mech.

[commuterzombie]

Yes, I think the units that do damage in big chunks lose a lot of their flavour in the conversion, especially those with low ammo that get docked damage as a consequence (the KGC-000 and KGC-0000 come to mind).

[Geg]

The Awesome is not very Awesome in Alpha Strike.

[commuterzombie]

The Awesome is not very Awesome in Alpha Strike.

The AWS-8Q can move and fire all 3 PPCS and remain heat neutral in AS, how much more Awesome can you get? 

[commuterzombie]

EDIT - not sure why the forum decided to post that twice...

[mitchberthelson]

1. Unit variants that address a previous reliance on short range weapons by adding weapons like AC/10's or Large Lasers that SIGNIFICANTLY improve their range in TW, but don't make much of a difference in AS other than adding more heat or lessening the punch given by the number of tons invested. The Atlas RS is a massive improvement under TW, but under AS rules is actually worse in open field combat than the AS7-D it was created to improve.

Lots of Medium Lasers? Enjoy your improved Medium Range Band.

Lots of Large Lasers? Enjoy your weapons mattering a whole lot less than equivalent tonnage in Medium Lasers and Heat Sinks would have.

2. Zombie 'Mechs. Sure "ENE" means you're immune to ammo explosions, but those are a whole lot less likely in AS and you lose the secondary "anti-crit armor" from padding your 'Mech with boatloads of heat sinks. One of the reasons the Awesome is "less Awesome" in AS is that it doesn't have the insane crit resistance and ability to maintain firepower after taking structure hits that it does in TW. Same goes for the MAD-4A, WHM-6D, etc.

3. As someone else said already, Mechs that rely on the hole-punching ability of a very small number of very large weapons (Hollander, Hunchback, Kit Fox A etc.). In AS, they do decent overall damage, but completely lose the fight-ending ability to hit a soft spot.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

A lot of clan mechs lose out on using their range superiority to gain marginal advantages   Medium range is always medium range, you can’t force a spheroid into a worse bracket while being at a better one yourself. That’s more a deal with range brackets rather than a specific mech that loses out tho.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I also think the EWAR stuff gets hurt.

ECM can’t negate the damage bonus from Artemis, neither could angels defeat streaks due to the damage being baked in. No ghost targets outside of house rules. It can shutdown c3 networks and maybe NARC, idr the rules for that.

Probes don’t get the woods negation, and force the 2 point recon special, which doesn’t have any use outside of Battlefield Intelligence (I’ve never hear of a game actually using that)

All of them cost points. The Shadow Cat III B for example has an extra 5 or 6 PV above its capabilities due to the specials from its EWAR stuff, that don’t interact except in very small sets of circumstances.

[mitchberthelson]

I also think the EWAR stuff gets hurt.

ECM can’t negate the damage bonus from Artemis, neither could angels defeat streaks due to the damage being baked in. No ghost targets outside of house rules. It can shutdown c3 networks and maybe NARC, idr the rules for that.

Probes don’t get the woods negation, and force the 2 point recon special, which doesn’t have any use outside of Battlefield Intelligence (I’ve never hear of a game actually using that)

All of them cost points. The Shadow Cat III B for example has an extra 5 or 6 PV above its capabilities due to the specials from its EWAR stuff, that don’t interact except in very small sets of circumstances.

Many of the electronics do require special rules, but there are a lot of those that can be used. I do think that maybe there might need to be some more standard rules for them.

ECM does indeed stop NARC per pg.87. Also stops Probes, Drones and C3/C3i.

Probes help in Reconnaissance and Headhunting scenarios (pgs 128 and 133). They also give significant bonuses (-2 to hit) to offboard artillery when possessed by spotters and increase maximum spotting distance for LOS in extreme weather or visibility conditions if you're using the Concealing Unit Data rules.

Aerospace units with RCN (including with PRB) can spot for IF when over the map.

TAG can spot for normal Indirect Fire with no "attack by spotter" modifier, in addition to spotting for homing rounds or semi-guided LRMs.

My group personally uses Battlefield Intelligence quite frequently. We're going to be adding Concealing Unit Data, Blip Counters, and Hidden units soon. I think they all add fun.