New(ish) tabletop player, anyone want to help me build my lance? (3025)

[Billiam Jimmothy]

Hello, didn't see a forum for strategy/list building advice so I am putting it here. Sorry if it should go somewhere else. Assume I am talking about classic battletech, not Alpha Strike.

I've been a battletech fan since I was a kid thanks to Mechwarrior 3, and I've played the tabletop game a bit on and off. I'm at least generally familiar with the setting up to Jihad Era, and know the basics of the tabletop game rules but not much about strategy. I have a couple friends who are interested in joining in as well, so I was planning on giving them a basic rundown of battletech lore and let them decide what factions they want to pick to help them make lore-friendly but still effective forces. Probably going to try and stick to basic Succession Wars tech to keep things simple at first, but if someone really wants to be a dirty clanner I won't stop them.

I want to have my own baseline ready to go and was curious if anyone wanted to give me some advice building the list. I have only slightly more than zero knowledge of the game myself. I plan to make a left-field choice and play as Comstar, both because they are easy to paint, and I just find them interesting as a faction. The whole Word of Blake disagreement may not be a favored part of the battletech lore, but I find it to be kind of fun. They weren't officially active in the succession wars time period, but there are mentions that some ComGuard acted like mercenary companies. I figure that if some shiny white battlemechs with surprisingly good tech happen to show up and chase away people who get too close to Comstar facilities or recently found lostech storage, then who's really going to argue?

I think that a lance of ~5,000BV is probably a good starting point. I don't know for sure but that number sounds vaguely familiar (and yes I know comstar uses a different organization, we'll build into bigger collections as we go). I'm picking mechs that show up on the MUL for my faction and trying to make good picks that work together but aren't necessarily always the strongest. That said, if I am picking something that is super weak I would prefer not to do that. Here's the simple list. I'll talk about why I am taking it below:

1. Black Knight BLK-6b-KNT
2. Crab CRB-27
3. Archer ARC-2R
4. Javelin JVN-10N
4896 BV

1. I want to take something big and scary to help the other players understand that there is other more advanced tech out there, and hopefully get them interested in some more mech purchases. This SLDF classic will be the center of my list. That ERPPC will turn some heads in 3025 and the large pulses are nothing to sneeze at. Probably not the best straight up brawler, but it should work and honestly I just like how it looks.

2. This one will support the knight on the line, help keep smaller mechs off its flanks, and contribute longer ranged firepower. I think some people rated the Crab as a strong medium mech, and the image of a Crab and a Black Knight definitely will look very Star League for thematic purposes. I didn't really intend to make this list be a large laser disco party, but what better way to spread the light of Blake?

3. Solid long range fire support mech. Really wish I could afford the SLDF version with Aretmis and the double heat sinks, but that would take me over 5000 on BV. Heck, it will help teach me about heat management. Both previous designs are very heat friendly.

4. My list sorely lacks ways to get critical hits, and this will help fix that. Also gives mobility and a way to harass opponent's fire support. Not sure if the Javelin is actually good, but I have a soft spot for the thing. 12 SRMs is way too much firepower for a mech that size and I have had a lot of fun piloting it in the video games, so I want to bring one to the tabletop!

The strategy for this lance seems to be advancing slowly and letting people come to me, hopefully at a spot that is tactically advantageous. I've got 2 LRM-20s, an ERPPC, and two large lasers to score lucky shots on an advancing force. By 3025 terms that honestly seems pretty nasty. I've been playing some practice games in MegaMek with this lance against randomly generated AI opponent lances, and generally not doing so well, but that's probably because I don't entirely know what I am doing.

So, you made it to the end. Comments, questions, think I'm out of my mind? One specific bit of advice would be knowing when to shoot the ERPPC vs the medium lasers on the Black Knight. I normally shoot the medium lasers whenever I am getting into pulse range and stop using the ERPPC after the first few turns, but I also have noticed that I have a real problem dealing with heavily armored opponents since my damage comes in small packets mostly, I have no AC-20 to punch a hole. Would using the ERPPC more aggressively at shorter ranges be a good idea?

[klarg1]

It seems like a reasonable start, but I'll be honest:
I rarely come up with my force much more than a day before the game and rarely field the same force twice.

Are you assuming baseline g4/p5 skills for every pilot?

[DevianID]

So some tips for getting into the tabletop gameplay the first few times:

Consider 3/4 pilots as the floor.  Yes the comguards in 3050 were not that skilled, but its worth it for the gameplay.  For 5k points this means you may need to cut the archer to fit the Royal black knight, running a half level 2, 3 units out of 6.  Having fewer units will also speed up gameplay.  Or, go up to 6k points and add back an LRM mech.  Either way, 3/4 skills at a minimum with less total armor/structure bubbles will help introduce the game better, as you will miss a lot of shots which can turn people off from the game when they haven't learmed how to get better shots as new players.

For the models you have there, im guessing you have minis already?  For introducing new players, i really like the plastic mechs catalyst sells as a thing to point to and have them puck units they like the look of.  Old or off minis can also turn people away from battletech, as most people are visual biased and there are a lot of model based games competing for new player attention.  So selecting mechs from the comstar force pack for example so they can see the new stuff in action might be worthwhile, at least at the start, so everyone is on the same page of where to start.

A lot of escalation leagues work this way, where everyone picks one box set to paint and play, gradually adding new stuff to customize their force beyond jist the first box/force pack.

Having "A game of armored combat" handy is a good tool too.  The box splits into two 6k forces at skill 3/4 for people to pick up and play versus you of they dont have models of their own.

Edit: for strategy I should mention a lot of games run 6k minimum.  5k is often half a force for 2v2, with 10k per side.  In mission games, the common culprits are "go here" or "kill that".  The "kill that" part your list does ok, besides the 4/5 skill, but you arnt super fast.  The javelin is ok, but something like the mongoose or mercury with masc are ideal "grab the macguffin" units or "hold x objective" on early turns before the tanky crab gets there.

[Billiam Jimmothy]

Thanks for a couple of useful replies. I do agree that forces change over time, but none of us own any miniatures at all yet, so I was planning on just designing a core lance for each player that worked and was balanced, then buying models for it. We could kind of grow from there, maybe into combined arms too (I personally am a big airplane nerd so air support would be fun, but I don't know a single thing about how that works on the tabletop). One of my friends is super into the modeling and painting aspect of the hobby so the point about newer models is very well taken. I was originally just going to build everyone's forces then put in a big order to Iron Wind, but with all due respect a lot of those models look...dated.

One thing we could do is just design lances for 5000BV then adjust the pilot skills as necessary. As long as both sides have the same number of units and everyone is playing with the same skills on every pilot then it actually just balances out mathematically. Two lances of nominally the same BV will be balanced whether the pilots are all 5/6 or 2/3. We just have to make really sure the BVs are super close to each other, because small differences would get magnified.

This is just my initial force for some "line up and shoot at each other" games. Eventually at higher BV once we buy some more miniatures I do plan to get into objective play. At that point fast movers are way more important. The other two units in my L2 would be a Phoenix Hawk (seems really good at hunting down enemy light mechs, plus it's another large laser for the disco) and then another scout. Maybe a second javelin honestly. I just love those little dudes. Plus that gives me a ton of mechs with the "command mech" quirk so they could all be the start of their own independent formations if I ever grow my little ComGuard force into a real army.

[klarg1]

You may already know this, but I want be sure to say it:

You do not need any miniatures to play.

Miniatures are cool looking and can make the game much more visually appealing, but they are 1000% optional. You can go ahead and play with anything that indicates identity and facing. (i.e. which token represents which unit and which way it is facing on the board)

If your goal is to play with miniatures for their own sake then I think you have made some fine choices. I'll agree that enhanced pilot skills will accelerate the game. Whether that is good or not is up to you. I would encourage you to mix it up and see what fits your style!

[Billiam Jimmothy]

Heck, I've played Battletech with Risk pieces back in college and had a great time doing it. I just really want to focus on the visual aspect this time around since I have a couple friends who are also entering the hobby with me, and at least one of them is more interested in painting and modeling than actually playing the game. I personally care about lore a lot. We will make due. Again thank you for your reply.

[Nerroth]

A few thoughts:

If you and your friends are looking to get caught up with things lore-wise, there is a sourcebook due out later this year called BattleTech Universe which should help a lot with that. It's set to cover the BT timeline through to 3150, as well as introduce a number of factions of note.

If you aren't planning on trying Alpha Strike right now, I might still suggest taking a closer look at the Alpha Strike Boxed Set - if only due to the cost-effective range of miniatures it provides. Plus, each of the AS Unit Cards offered in the box itself has a corresponding Record Sheet in this PDF.

It"s quite possible to set up inter-Clan Trials over in the Homeworlds prior to the era of Operation REVIVAL. Indeed, one thing you might notice on the Homeworld Clan General lists as of 3025 over on the Master Unit List website is how many non-OmniMechs there are to be found. There's plenty of scope for second-line or solahma units to have "standard" BattleMechs, rather than the cutting-edge Omnis serving in the front-line Galaxies of each touman.

Further, while Wolf's Dragoons are the most (in)famous case of intelligence-gathering efforts being sent from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere in this time period, there might still be opportunities for Intelser recon missions, and/or Clan Goliath Scorpion Seeker quests, to be snooping around the coreward Deep Periphery. And since they would not want to tip-off, say, the Hanseatic League or the feuding kingdoms of Nueva Castile as to their true origins, they might bid away the use of Omnis (or Elementals) when setting out on such long-range missions.

Going in the opposite direction, both Interstellar Expeditions and ComStar's Explorer Corps are already active as of 3025. While neither would make it anywhere near as far as the Homeworlds prior to the ill-fated Outbound Light expedition, there is still a broad swath of Deep Periphery space in which one might find them operating. Perhaps even making it as far as one of the Hansa's three "open" worlds.

Closer to the Inner Sphere, there is also the case of the Marian Hegemony. Their bespoke Legion and Cohort force organization would allow Inner Sphere-type BattleMechs to be deployed in a distinct manner - either as a playable faction, or as an opposing force for factions in and around that corner of known space.

[Prospernia]

You've got a great lance!

But I say that about every lance because I just like playing Battletech.

Over time, I'd group lances on what they were suppose to do, militarily, like recon, assault, diversion etc.

[DevianID]

I was originally just going to build everyone's forces then put in a big order to Iron Wind, but with all due respect a lot of those models look...dated.

Yeah, this is why I so strongly recommend starting with the plastic box sets, and working with 1 box set at a time.  While I really like some of iron winds stuff, they were faithful to the old art when making those older models, and the old art is dated indeed.  The force packs with new minis and art are a good deal, and my go-to is to have everyone start by picking the force pack/mech they think looks the coolest.  That way they will tend to get the most value out of those mechs, as there is almost always a variant that is good/playable in each era.  We also do quite a bit of trading plastic among each other.  The '1 force pack each' escalation really helps the hobby/painting people get into the game, as they have new mechs to paint as they go, and with group painting challenges everyone tends to stay motivated to put painted stuff on the table.

So for 35$ on the catalyst store for example, the Comstar forcepack with a black knight, king crab, mercury, sentinel, exterminator, highlander, will provide 2 5k point lists at 3/4ish skill... A highlander black knight sentinel, versus a king crab, exterminator, mercury.  More BV with the units past introtech.  Combined with 'a game of armored combat' and you have enough mechs for 4 people at 5k and skill 3/4, plus the introductory rules.