Author Topic: What's old is neu: Relighting the Fringe with old guns and new wars  (Read 9014 times)

Daryk

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As long as you remember to scoot right after you shoot, a mortar carrier shouldn't need armor... ;)

chanman

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In the Fringe, the only thing that stop you is you.

Well, that and an APFSDS-T penetrator.

Let 'em rip, Trace, DOC, and anyone else! There are many, many worlds that have been mentioned but have no more than a line or three written about them. Those situations would be considerably more constraining than your own, but there are a wealth of options.

Okay, so the Settled Words is, well, settled. Fair enough about "Known Space". I never really read any of Niven's stuff (aside from The
 Mote in God's Eye
with Pournelle--and that because of Pournelle), but it is something I should know about. If we had to give the mid-line worlds an appellation, what should it be? Inhabited Worlds? Established Worlds? Stable Worlds? Naming them is not a requirement. Just an idle thought.

"VEESS" stands for "Vehicle Engine Exhaust Smoke System"; basically injecting diesel into the exhaust system to emit smoke.

I had considered "Mryian Royal Aeronautics" but was getting conflicting translations: "Mriyan Korolivka Povitroplavannya" which made sense (but makes it the MKP(P?), but also "mriyan korolivka aeronavtics" (so, MKA).

Tell you what, Kamas: Give me a list of the intro dates for all the AFVs we have constructed so far and what you want your helos called and I'll see about getting them set to rights.

I am not entirely sure Mriya would get smashed, at least not initially. But, if the Novos got spanked hard so soon before the fight--and by their eventual enemy to boot, I suppose they might make a return-visit on their march to fiery dissolution. I would love for chanman to weigh in on this since he made Novosibirsk in the first place. But Mriya could be in for it, at least a little bit.

I wouldn't be so sure that 2565 is out. I mean, after the Great Interstellar War, the Second Troubles took a while to shake off. This one will be worse. I know not exactly what will happen, other than Hochstadt and much of the HPK will die under falling rocks and other unpleasantness. It will be borne from hubris, and human frailty, even self preservation--when faced with a failing system at home, the Novosibirsk Duma will embark on a foreign adventure to prop up their economy and content the proles back home. And when things start to get serious, they just keep going. But so does everyone else, and that's when neighbors start trying settle old scores on the side...

Novosibirsk was set of Soviet-esque set dressing to support a bunch of Cold War East Bloc designs. I don't recall much if any backstory other than they were jerks with a lot of heavy industry and commoditized AFVs for sale  :cheesy:
« Last Edit: 26 July 2024, 18:34:25 by chanman »

Failure16

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See, I knew you would sum it all up: "Novosibirsk...were jerks with a lot of heavy industry and commoditized AFVs for sale". That is about the Fringe in a nutshell, if you ask me.

The Fringe already has light mortar carriers, Daryk...



Oh, you meant on wheels... :rolleyes:

Kamas, thanks for the intro dates. Very appreciated. I can knock together that light squad vehicle, the Karacal, and the MPP-6N when I redo the shebang. Give me some time, though. More to come.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

Daryk

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LOL!  But those light mortar carriers would have a hard time hauling a 120 around... :D

ANS Kamas P81

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Shoot and scoot is the game to play especially when you're dealing with counterbattery radars.  The question is how long you can shoot before you need to dislocate to avoid incoming strikes - a mortar that only fires once and then has to move is not going to provide much in the way of support fires.

I wonder if Novosibirsk is where the Mriyans got the MTP-304 APC design from.  Built locally of course, but it could be a cheap knockoff of a Novo APC.  It breaks their Not Invented Here syndrome but it's their first APC - they didn't have the knowledge or experience to design their own at the time; the infantry was motorized or light only.

Chanman, any thoughts on what the Jerks With Industry would do to Mriya?  I'm still on board with them getting hammered hard and forced into the HPK at gunpoint for a while; nuking half of Novy Zemlya and a chunk of Gensoukyo is fine with me.  It'd explain why the future Mriyan military is well equipped with CBRN recon and decon troops, following that light infantry organization chart.

LOL on the light mortar carriers, that's one way to do it.  The M224 only weighs 47 pounds assembled, and breaks up into nicely sized packages for its three man crew.  Reposting the light mortar infantry that F16 made here.

F16, no sweat on the dates.  Take your time on the vehicle stats, I'm not in a rush for stuff.  I just get ideas and spam the thread with them, and chew on concepts until I spit out something I like.  This video from Battle Order shows an ISV with a mounted 81mm mortar and a few dozen rounds onboard.  It's supposed to be a light unit, so go with an 81mm instead of the 120mm and see how much ammo you can cram onboard.  The 120mm mortar will remain with the mechanized infantry and their Otselots.

For the MPP-6N, push for ten dismounts aboard the helicopter along with the door guns.  That'd let me airlift an entire light infantry battalion with three rifle companies and a weapons company, plus an HHC, with a single transport battalion of 30 choppers.  I'm sticking with the six-man "heavy rifle teams" for the army, so I can fit one rifle squad or two HWTs per helicopter.  It'd also be enough for an aviation battalion to airlift a Karakal company with its command section, 14 vehicles plus their squads.

LONG EDIT IS LONG

Planetary Report: Mriya (2530)

The world of Mriya is one of combinations and revolutions, with a history of warfare not unlike other planets among the Settled Worlds.  Initially named Mriya Slaviya by the colonists, a group of 15,000 dissidents of the socialist structure of Cherkasy, the world was settled in 2251.  Months later, a colony ship from Tomokomai appeared over the planet, bringing 5,000 settlers from that world.  What might have been a fight for supremacy was handled with skill and aplomb by the negotiators of each colonial faction, and what might have been the birth pains of war for the colony instead became the dream of a unified society.

The Cherkasian settlements formed a new nation, Novy Zemlya, taking up the farmlands of the eastern coastal region.  The colonists from Tomokomai settled in the northern mountains, naming their new home Gensoukyou.  Novy Zemlya's capital, Zoryane Misto (Star City) became the planetary capital.

Over the next fifty years, Mriya Slaviya would grow at a fair pace, with an average of two percent annual population growth per year.  The nascent industry on the planet was centered around farming, with the social pressure to have large numbers of children leading to the rapid growth of both segments of the population.  What was a peaceful, slowly integrating world balance became upset in 2302, with the arrival of a colony ship from one of the Core Worlds.  Novosibirsk sent 8,000 colonists to Mriya Slaviya, with the intent of setting up a pro-homeworld colony on the mineral-rich "outback."

Relations with the democratic societies of Novy Zemlya and Gensoukyou and the communist organization of Novosibirsk's colony, Novaya Mechta, were strained at best.  There was little agreement between the two, though the small populations had no great means of making war with each other.  The three colonies grew, shifting from subsistence to success as they made use of the abundant natural resources of the world and fought to pacify the wild regions of the outback.

This would not last; in 2350 Sapporoan forces invaded and swiftly conquered the world as part of its early expansion of the Great Interstellar War.  The occupation would last thirteen years, with a consistent insurgency among the colonists that eventually led to a punitive bombardment of the settlements by the Sapporoan starships in 2363, as they pulled out of the planet and retreated to their own worlds.  Mriya Slaviya found itself blasted back to a pre-electrical level of technology, and would begin the long, slow climb up the ladder once more.  Mriya Slaviyan civilization fragments over the next thirty years, splitting up into small city-states across the continent.

From 2389 to 2398, war scoured the weakly-populated world, the city-state of Zoryane Misto having rebuilt itself into a monarchy centered around a popular military leader.  Reunification was the goal of the king, and Andriy I would accept no other option from the rest of the world.  Some regions bowed to the throne peacefully, others required pacification from the Zoryane Misto Royal Army.  With the planet united once more by 2400, the king formed the Duchies of Gensoukyou and Novaya Mechta along with Novy Zemlya, the highest populated region on the world.  Citing the mixture of cultures on the planet, and with a mind to a new start, the world was renamed to Mriya by royal decree. 

Many noble titles were handed out after the Reunification War ended, establishing a strong peerage and the potential of the commonfolk having accession to their ranks.  Noble titles such as knighthoods are common rewards for service to the nation, and can be inherited by a designated successor to the original title holder.

It would be 2460 before another starship would visit Mriya, and bring with it stories of the Great Interstellar War and the general collapse of the Settled Worlds over the last century.  Stories of Mriya's mineral wealth soon spread, and in 2463 a mercenary unit sought to conquer the lightly-populated world and make it their own.  The Devil's Herd set down in the outback, quickly overwhelming what defenses the Mriyans had and taking over the mines.  A guerilla war followed, with harassment by civilian militias and constant night and water raids finally being successful in convincing the Herd that there were better options elsewhere.  The mercenaries left the planet, but not before wrecking everything they held.

Fifty years of peace would pass, as Mriya once again found itself among the Settled Worlds, trading on the value of its mineral resources and rapidly growing the planet.  By 2510, however, conflicts simmering on the planet between the Novosibirsk-aligned Novaya Mechta and the independent duchies of Novy Zemlya and Gensoukyou came to a head.  With support from the Core World, Novaya Mechta overthrew its government and rebelled, creating the Novaya Mechta People's Republic.  The ill-equipped Mriyan Armed Forces fought the rebels to a stalemate that would last ten years.

While the Mriyans modernized as best they could over that ten year period, the NMPR was doing the same and eventually smuggling in heavy weapons and troops from Novosibirsk itself.  Pro-communist forces surged out of the NMPR, smashing aside Mriyan defenders for several years and sacking the cities of Novy Zemlya.  The royal government retreated to Gensoukyou, and in its desperation called for the help of the Black Devils and Foreign Service Regiment mercenary forces.  Their appearance rapidly turned the tide of the war, which ended with the former NMPR in smoking rubble and King Volodomyr I unquestioned as leader of the planet.

With the fear that it would happen again present in everyone's mind, the government spent profligate amounts of money rebuilding its military industry and the military itself, with Hero Projects declared to maximize output and reform the Mriyan Armed Forces as rapidly as possible.  These efforts would come to fruition in 2529, giving the Mriyans a heavy mechanized army just in time for the eve of the Second Interstellar War.

The geography of Mriya is relatively simple.  The planet has one large continent approximately 900km east to west, and 1,450km north to south.  The land is loosely rectangular, stretching from 20 degrees latitude on the southern edge to 45 degrees on the north.  To the east, a series of volcanic islands dot the ocean along the seam of two tectonic plates, forming an atmospheric disturbance that often spawns large scale storms that move west to the coastal region of Novy Zemlya.  The three moons exhibit quite a bit of pull on the world, so it gets some active quakes; the main continent of Mriya Slaviya is in the center of its plate so it doesn't ride the edge and suffer quakes like Earth's "ring of fire" does.  The volcanic islands off to the east are on a mid-ocean ridge, which makes for significant seismic and volcanic activity in the area.

The axial tilt is less than that of earth, making the difference between summer and winter less pronounced.  The jet stream is strong and bisects the continent, providing cold and snowy winters for the mountain region of Gensoukyou while keeping temperatures slightly warmer than Earth's average for Novy Zemlya and Novaya Mechta.  The outback plateau gets few storms, which expend themselves against the eastern coast; it remains an arid near-desert landscape. 

The Great Divide mountain range reaches the sea on both the northern and southern edges of the continent, extending to a small group of islands from both edges of the range.  This mountain range reaches peaks of 12,000 feet, and acts as a weather shield for the interior highlands, keeping the heavy cyclonic storms pouring much of their rain on the coastal region.  Because of these storms, much of the construction of Novy Zemlya is concrete and steel, with the simple efficiency of brutalist architecture popular among the builders.  Resisting the destructive storms is a major consideration of life on Mriya.

The interior of Nova Zemlya is a highlands averaging approximately 2,000 feet above sea level.  This land is mostly basaltic lava from a number of now extinct shield volcanoes that make up the Great Divide and a few low peaks in the highlands.  The highlands slope downward to the west, reaching approximately 1,000 feet above sea level before reaching a small mountain chain that makes up the western coast.  Temperatures average as much as ten degrees higher than the coastlines, and with the mountains blocking most storm activity the plains receive only scattered rains.

Wildlife on Mriya Slaviya is similar to that of the African savannahs.  Megafauna exist and are plentiful, with carnivorous analogues to the rhinocerous of Earth at the top of the food chain in the outback.  Lesser animals, including poisonous avians and reptiles, are commonplace outside of the carefully controlled farms and ranches.  Because of this dangerous level of wildlife, hunting is common and firearms ownership among the population is only moderately regulated - most rural households have rifles capable of stopping such animals.  Handgun ownership is rare and wrapped with more legal complications, however.

The apex predator in Mriya Slaviya's great ocean is the Giant Anglerfish, which feeds on shark and whale analogues and other large wildlife.  I mean, it's one butt-ugly fish to start with, so it makes for a good 'bad guy' sea life.  There'd also need to be something akin to the blue whale, some truly massive sea life feeding on MS's equivalent of plankton.  They don't come close to the shores, though, because there's a continental shelf that makes things rather shallow for sea life.  Once you get offshore in the deep, though, there's some wild stuff to be found.  Octosharks are a thing as well, because why not give a shark tentacles and camouflage abilities.  They need the latter to hide from the Giant Anglerfish.

With Mriya Slaviya technologically being at around 1980 in the year 2520, oil is in high demand.  Oil reserves are sufficient for the needs of the population, with large fields offshore being discovered and drilled.  The storms often disrupt the rigs, but the Mriyans have learned to adapt to the heavy winds and rain and work around the hurricanes.  Storm Stalker aircraft often fly reconnaissance patterns through the storms, determining their strength and direction before they reach populated areas.

Information architecture is pretty basic; PCs exist, but mostly for business applications - they're expensive, and local software development has its limits.  The most common form of computer system is a mainframe and terminal rather than a home microprocessor, though the new, Gensoukyou-built Ringo IIC is popular among consumers.  There are, of course, rare imported computers much more advanced than that, but they're luxury items for the wealthy and of limited use with the state of Mriyan computers.

Public transport covers much of Mriya Slaviya, between buses and trains in the cities and a rail and road network that connects many of the small settlements in the outback to the coastal cities.  Car ownership has its own culture, though it is heavily regulated by the government.  Light aircraft are popular, used in various roles but mostly for agricultural and transport duties.  Many small airports dot the nation, some of which are the only way to reach distant villages.

Governmentally, the planet is a constitutional monarchy in the executive with a democratically elected House of Lords for the legislative branch.  Every three years the population chooses those among the nobility to represent the general population in the House of Lords; the small size of the population means that the elections are planetwide instead of by region.  The High Court is appointed by the House of Lords, and forms the national-level judiciary.

The major religion on the planet would be the Mriyan Autocephalous Orthodox Patriarchate, primarily in the Novy Zemyla region.  The Gensoukyouans practice a  postmodern Shinto animism; the colony ship from Tomokomai left the Buddhists behind.  The MAOP is heavily sponsored by the Mriyan government, and is recognized as the official religion of Novy Zemlya.  Attempts to proselytize in either direction have been limited and unfruitful; both regions of the planet stick to their own beliefs.  60% of the population follows the MAOP, with 20% Shinto and 14% Novaya Mechtan atheists.  Other religions make up the remaining 6%, none with more than a political handful of followers.

The Mriyan Autocephalous Orthodox Patriarchate is popular with the army, even as half of the military are Gensoukyouan Shintoists.  There's a bit of syncretism going on as both belief systems grow alongside each other, but they're still both independent religious structures and both are recognized by the crown as national religions.  The MAOP and the Gensoukyouan Shinto Shrine Association (Jinja Honcho) have embraced the military, and frequently are seen giving divine blessing to military equipment and personnel outside of normal services.

The concept of self-reliance, as well as veneration of the military and the leadership, is a significant mode of thought on Mriya.  Plenty of patriotic music and movies to watch about the glory of service and the tales of great soldiers, and plenty of propaganda to spread around - especially with the separatists in Novaya Mechta.  Self-reliance has its limits, and the King knows the Mriyans are recovering slower than they should from the Great Interstellar War.  With the experience of the Novosibirsk-Mriya war fresh in their minds, and the performance of the technologically advanced star mercenaries, the freeze on foreign technologies and ideas is thawing as Mriya looks to bootstrap itself to the level of the Settled Worlds.  Military technologies come first and foremost, with civilian applications left to grow at a slower rate.

Shooting culture on Mriya is a thing, with the widespread ownership of long guns to deal with Mriyan fauna.  There's competitive riflery that's commonplace, and a lot of rural areas where a good rifle can be a lifesaver - so most recruits have at least some experience with a rifle.  I could see a mindset of "every soldier is a rifleman first" like the Marines, with training in long-range shooting being part of basic training.

The Mriyan military is focused primarily around its Land Forces, with the Air Force as an adjunct arm of the military.  The Land Forces fought for mechanization on their own terms after learning from their Black Devil advisors, building their own vehicles in factories on their own world rather than buying and relying on foreign suppliers.  By 2530, this has given the MLF two full fighting divisions of combined-arms troops, plus a special forces battalion.

The Mriyan Air Force exists to support the Land Forces, with its tactical aviation focused around homemade "Hryf" (Vulture) turboprop ground attack aircraft built by hand.  Transports dot the country, primarily to deal with logistics for the military and the occasional VIP transport when the king is visiting other parts of the world.  Training requirements dictate a number of small light aircraft for beginning pilots that join the Air Force.

There is no navy as most other worlds might have, though there is a coast guard primarily for civil protection and law enforcement.  There are few places to travel to by boat with the vast majority of the world covered by water.  Nor are there any real threats on the water; the outlying islands have small populations and they mostly just want to be left alone.  That is, as long as they don't need rescuing from Mriyan hurricanes, at which point the Sea Patrol steps in.

Most of the military's officer corps are volunteers in long-term service, the great majority of them members of the noble families of Mriya.  There's strong social pressure for the nobility to serve in the military; those who don't tend to be among the lower strata and are sometimes considered politically unreliable.  Meanwhile volunteerism born from heavy propaganda fills in the enlisted ranks and the remainder of the officer corps, as those with high scores in the intake evaluation are routed to OCS.  Service terms for the volunteer are four years of active duty service followed by a four year reserve status, with remaining as part of the mobilizable pool until the age of 40.

Gensoukyouans are an outsized portion of the military.  Their population is a little under a third of the total country, though they make up nearly half of the fighting forces.  Women in the military make up about 20% of the total personnel, with the fewest in the Marauders special forces battalion, and the highest percentage in the Air Force.  Physiological advantages of the female body make them excellent pilots with superior situational awareness, and many aviatrixes have gone on to distinguish themselves among the Storm Stalker aircraft that fly the most dangerous missions.

An independent federal police force monitors the country, with armored SWAT vehicles surplus from the MSLF.  Mriya Federal Police units use Eland 60 armored cars for dealing with riots and rampaging megafauna.  Use the gun-mortar for firing smoke or tear gas shells against rioters or explosive rounds against oversized wild animals, and load the twin 7.62mm MGs with rubber bullets for crowd dispersal.

During the NMPR insurrection, illegal checkpoints and toll stations were set up across the outback as a means of extorting money and hostages from the population.  The Mriyan Federal Police was forced to mobilize road patrols with civilian models of gun trucks, jeeps with FN MAGs, and the AMLs they inherited from the MLF.  Patrolling the highways of the country was critical to keeping the mines open and successfully shipping their ores, and the regular pursuit and interceptor cars of the MFP were supplemented with their own cavalry forces in the AMLs and gun trucks to enforce these patrols.  After the war, the MFP heavily patrols that side of the country, watching carefully for signs of a resurgent insurrection again.  They will be first ones to respond to such a resurgence, as the Mriyan military rebuilds

Mriya is a planet of mixtures, with the combined cultures of Novaya Mechta, Gensoukyou, and Novy Zemlya slowly coming together in the high arid plateaus of the only major landmass on the planet.  It finds itself slowly healing the scars of several civil wars, and has rebuilt its armed forces twice now - most recently at great expense.  Sizeable amounts of the mineral wealth of the world were signed over to the Interstellar Bank as a means of paying for the world-saving star mercenaries.  It is a world where one may rise or fall, elevated to planetary nobility or have titles stripped away for malfeasance at the whims of fate.  Technologically, the Mriyans have made the long, hard crawl out of the darkness on their own, but now look to others for a future.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:38:01 by ANS Kamas P81 »
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