What's old is neu: Relighting the Fringe with old guns and new wars

[Daryk]

I think the .50 cal version will be more popular among the locals... ;)

[Failure16]

I've found my old stash of HMA/HMV/HMP designs if anyone has them still running. I have an old Windows XP PC that should work, but can't get around to it until the weekend.

I have been slowly going through my HMV and bringing the text TROs at least over.

That find is awesome, chanman. I see some familiar faces, some ones I forgot...

Kamas, that has to be the whole threads' worth right there. A lot of people contributed to that, that is for sure. I cannot wait to boot up HMV and see what is concealed in that rather innocuous file of fabulosity!

I am digging Gensoukyou's inclusion to the SDR and look forward to the mayhem they will be a part of. I will amend Distant Fires to make sure that it is clear the effort to eject the invaders was a concerted group effort. Shikotan was lost to the HPK, and the [very] few survivors were evacuated to other SDR worlds. But, you know, what is lost is sometimes regained later, and as Sapporo and the rest of the SDR regains strength, competence, and experience they might just remember that once upon a time, they were the baddest dudes on the block.

[chanman]

Well, I can see a few gag designs with fluff. The Atlas and Santa's sleigh among others.

[Failure16]

I think the Sleigh was yours. The Atlas? Not so sure yet, but I haven't opened any up yet in HMV. There is a text file of a Hochstadtler heavy hover tank. That would be the first rendition of a tank that is taking as long to develop in real-time as it would in-universe!

[chanman]

I think the Sleigh was yours. The Atlas? Not so sure yet, but I haven't opened any up yet in HMV. There is a text file of a Hochstadtler heavy hover tank. That would be the first rendition of a tank that is taking as long to develop in real-time as it would in-universe!

There's a gag Atlas Battlemech design using Fringe weapons as a "What are those Terrans up to?" joke 

[Daryk]

Something I think you guys will find interesting AND amusing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw_PFCPWxCE

[chanman]

Something I think you guys will find interesting AND amusing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw_PFCPWxCE

Is that mostly just  the AbramsX demonstrator? Because it sure looks like it.

[Daryk]

It's more than that... :)

[ANS Kamas P81]

F16, Shikotan was lost to the HPK in 2512 but in 2515's map you still have it in SDR's borders.  Was it eventually retaken, or do you need to redraw the borders there?  Just wanted to highlight that.  Maybe the slogan in 2530 for the SDR is Remember Shikotan, especially if the first stage of ISW2 is against the HPK.

I don't have HMP, so I look forward to seeing the goodness in that zip file getting fluff posted here and units converted to Tankreator.

I'll watch that Abrams video after the Chiefs game, when I have proper attention span to enjoy it.

So the politics of Gensoukyou are slowly emerging, with the heads of the Yakumo powerbrokers advocating the old-world status quo for lifestyles, and the Yamashiro and Kawashiro technophile families being the impetus for advancement.  Unfortunately the Yamashiro and Kawashiro clans are competing for dominance of the world's shipping markets, so they're working together as much as they are against each other.  Most of the population agrees with the Yakumo, but would if pressed admit they're enjoying the advances in infrastructure and the occasional consumer good.  All in moderation and harmony with the spirits of the world, as it were.

Surprisingly, the Kawashiro and Yamashiro clans were able to come together in their desire to see new AFVs equip the military.  Typically the two clans present competing designs for seagoing vessels and improved consumer goods.  In an unexpected show of solidarity, both clans worked together to design the next generation of armored fighting vehicles for the GGDF.  In preparation for the improved technology, one aviation brigade and one mechanized infantry brigade was stood down to reduce the number of vehicles required as well as reduce personnel staffing levels, allowing the budget to be stretched thicker across fewer requirements.

Have some TL5 designs for the GGDF, an MBT and an IFV.  The Oni tank is built on the same hull, structurally reinforced and with the same armor layout, as the Kurokuma tank, though protection was improved by adding NERA tiles to the surface of the turret and front of the hull and improving the quality of the CBRN filtration and overpressure systems.  Instead of the 120mm cannon, it mounts a class-15 Mass Driver Cannon, a licensed copy of the AW-15's main gun.  This new advanced cannon and its power amplifier system gives the Oni both a significant increase in firepower and range.  A second minigun was added on a pintle mount for the loader to operate, and the 60mm mortar of the Kurokuma was retained with a revised storage that allowed an extra round to be fitted.  A laser designator was equipped to the turret to paint targets for guided missiles and bombs, and a computerized networking system was installed to share data with a company-level command vehicle.  Driving all this equipment was a new power system built around a 3.5 ton turbine engine and automatic transmission replacing the 1200hp diesel of the Kurokuma.  Last was a general improvement in the active protection systems and an radar and infrared countermeasures package to jam guided missiles, supplementing the point-defense APS attached to the tank.

The Katana IFV is built on a lengthened and heavier variant chassis of the Uma series of tracked IFVs.  It comes with the same improved active protection systems, CBRN system, and ECM jammers as the Oni tank, as well as the networking computer systems as well as a miniature turbine engine driving the power train.  One seat in the infantry compartment was removed, leaving only eight dismounts per vehicle instead of having an extra empty seat for passengers riding with the 32-man platoon.  Like the Uma series, the main gun remained the same - a 20mm autocannon with dual-feed systems allowing for programmable airbursting ammunition against aircraft and armor-piercing ammunition for use against AFVs to be selected as-needed by the gunner.  Unlike the Uma, four heavy ATGMs were attached to the turret to allow the Katana to engage heavier targets that the autocannon would be useless against.  Last was a laser designator system mounted in the turret.  The downside to all of the new technologies is that the weight of the Katana is nearly 18.5 tons, which means only two of them fit on a C-2 transport compared to three Umas.

[ANS Kamas P81]

So I was looking over old record sheets and found I had put 50kg of cargo on the scout helicopter.  Me, says I, why did you waste so much space?  There's something perfect to put in that 50kg of cargo space, and that's a laser painter for guided weapons.  It's supposed to be a scout helicopter after all, and has the mast-mounted sensors attached, so why not slap a laser on it?  I, says me, you're brilliant and me should have thought about that before.  Here is the updated He-12A Haitaka.

I also took a look at the way the Americans have turned Apaches into scout helicopters, and thought the idea of a combined scout/attack design was a pretty good idea.  I was originally going to come up with a TL5 scout helicopter called the Suzume (Sparrow), based on the OH-1 of the JSDF, but scratched the concept and came up with a clean-sheet design of a dedicated combination scout/attack helicopter in the weight range of an AH-64D.  The aircraft weighs nearly half again as much as the Hi no Tori, but improves things significantly over the older design.

The main gun is the same 20mm autocannon that's in widespread use by the rest of the GDF, though the ammunition magazine has been increased by 33% over the Hi no Tori.  It carries the same pair of quad ATGM racks, though the rocket pods stored behind bay doors have been upgraded to high-velocity rockets.  The PDS was upgraded, and a laser designator was added to the mast mount while a computerized AI-assisted networking system was installed for the gunner to operate.  A pair of air to air missiles were added to give the helicopter a means of defeating hostile aircraft, and the fire control system was improved to engage both ground and air targets.  The hull of the helicopter, like the Hi no Tori, was also designed with shallow angles and fitted with radar-absorbing material.

One more plan for the future of Gensoukyou that hasn't seen the light of day.

[ANS Kamas P81]

And something big for Ullaley or Longways; I turned the five-ton truck into an APC.  The armor weighs nearly a ton, hence only 20 troops onboard.  You could push that to 24 if you give up the steel plating and a chunk of the ammunition for the twin 7.62mm machine guns; I figured the troops onboard would appreciate having a little protection.  Like the other trucks, this one has a roof on it.  I could save a little tonnage without one, but leaving the top open is just asking for someone to pull a Michael Jordan and drop a three-pointer from the line with a grenade or satchel charge.

[Daryk]

I suppose the richer ranchers might have a couple of those... ;)

[DOC_Agren]

DOC Agren, if you want those M35 6x6 gun trucks I posted, feel free to have them.  I'm particularly amused by the one mounting a 75mm tank gun pulled from an M3 Half-Track.  Have a troop transport version that loses the armor plating and carries 16 dudes in the back.  That lets you shlep four of Daryk's rifle teams around in a single transport, and still has 90 bursts for its .50 machine gun up front.

Ullaley and our military might buy some and then reverse engineer them, to produce our own copies.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Feel free to make them locally designed and produced on Ullaley, Doc, I'm just making record sheets because Tankreator.  There is no more.



An armored M35 gun truck, which is pretty much what I posted before, though that one's open-topped.  I wonder how much ammo those gun trucks could load; probably quite a bit all things considered.

One last five-ton truck variant, this one with a 105mm howitzer mounted in the front of the vehicle for artillery fire support.  I tried to cram a gun in an M35 2.5 tonner, but had a whole twelve rounds for the gun. The infantry included represents the gun crew, so you could potentially unbolt the gun and deploy it in a fixed position.  It's probably a rare machine to spot on Ullaley or Longways, and jealously guarded for the amount of long-ranged firepower it brings to the field.  It's good for shelling enemy installations and airports, anyway, to prevent those pesky light observation airplanes from taking off and finding your troop concentrations.

In all honesty, a towed gun is probably a better idea in the first place, but gun truck.  Gun truck is the answer to everything.

EDIT

Since we talked about the Type 74 earlier, here's a stab at it in Tankreator.  I had to cheat the engine and give it an MA of 2.907 to come in exactly on the weight figure, but other than that it's pretty straightforward.



The armor is 190-195mm thick at its highest point; an armor rating of 9 might be a bit high considering the penetration capabilities of an M68 105mm APFSDS dart.  It does fit Tankreator's mathematics, though, so I'll roll with it and call it done.  The side and rear armor I pulled out of my rear end, but it seems appropriate to the hull and eats up the spare tonnage nicely.  The Type 74 also has a lot of ammunition for its coax, 4500 rounds in total, so feel free to spray that around like there's no tomorrow.

[Failure16]

I love that tank ever time I see it, Kamas. That brightened my day, actually.

Incidentally, if you rebadge it as an AW-02 and give it an intro date of 2502, you just made what Sapporo and the SDK were rolling with in 2511. I imagine the tank just before it, probably having a crazy-long life with an intro date of, say, 2470ish, was probably just a step down. Smaller main gun, less armor, etc.

Oh, fiddling with the MA is indeed an approved method of getting everything to work out in the end. It is why the MA cell is not a whole number, actually! You could always use it for fluff, too, saying an engine is slightly under- or overpowered or some such.

The main draw of Tankreator, in my mind, is not that it makes a record sheet to use in Dust & Fire. It is that it makes a vehicle (or infantry element) than is internally consistent and can be described down to how much and engine weighs (okay, the motive mass also incorporates other things, but it's close enough to talk about), how much armor it carries, how much ammo it stores, and so on. It is very useful for an author to know just how great their hero's tank is, or if the mooks they are fighting really should be getting squashed out of hand, or if the hero's main gun rounds should be bouncing off their glacis-plate.

So, if you are reading this and don't have it, consider taking a swing at it. At present I can only e-mail it, but I suppose it might be able to be zipped into something this forum can handle.

[ANS Kamas P81]

How about the prior tank to the Type 74/AW-02 is that Type 65 with the 90mm gun I came up with as the AW-65?  Keep the intro date of 2465 and have it developed by Sapporo, and exported to the rest of the SDR.  It serves for 37 years, then 2502 rolls around and the AW-02 comes into service, and is the primary MBT in the 2511-2512 war with the HPK.  Sapporo makes a significant jump in technology in 2515 with the AW-15, boosted by tech transfers from Hochstadt.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say those technologies were shared with the rest of the SDR that year, bootstrapping the other worlds from mid-TL3 vehicles to mid TL4 and seeing the other SDR worlds developing their own hardware.  I figure Sapporo would jealously guard its TL6 technology, but share the TL5 stuff to keep its dominant role as the leader of the SDR while at the same time improving the armies of the rest of the star-nation.

That TL3 Type ## family of APCs I posted would make good stablemates for the Type 74, if you want to use those for the Sapporoan Jietai.  Perhaps they're Gensoukyou-designed vehicles built on and imported from Sapporo, the technophile Kawashiro and Yamashiro families pushing for the development of an armored capacity to go along with Sapporo's AW-65.  They'd continue in service while the AW-02 is deployed across the SDR, since they're a simple and reliable METUL BAWKS that is relatively rugged and no-frills.

I would have to rewrite the intro dates of Gensoukyou's hardware starting in 2519, then, giving them four years of research on the new technology shared by Sapporo and development of a new high-tech family of vehicles.  That tech sharing would account for the TL5 FCS and armor systems, and indigenous design covers the engines, structure, protection systems, and weapons at TL4.  Say the Uma series of AFVs gets developed first starting in 2519, the artillery vehicle in 2520, then the MBT in 2522.  The Kitsunes get their development in 2525, and the Takane and Nitori patrol craft in 2520.  The 20s would be a revolutionary time for Gensoukyouan weapons development, started by the 2511 war and boosted by the technology improvements in 2515.

How's that sound to you?

That would mean Gensoukyou's hard TL5 vehicles aren't even on the drawing board, as new as the existing TL4.5 stuff is.  I can accept deleting that stuff, I haven't created record sheets except for the few vehicles I've posted here already and it's not like I haven't purged designs already.

I've got that Type 61 patrol boat for the early years and the shallows, but it'll need a contemporary supplement for something that can handle deeper water.  Call it a Type 68 Patrol Ship, around 100 tons.

And I love the detail I can get out of Tankreator, plus the flexibility of its design elements.  What I really enjoy is designing a standard powertrain and customizing the weight of different vehicles to use the same engine size for vehicles on a common platform, rather than coming up with different weight engines for each one.  Blame my autism for needing to keep the engine weights the same; I can't stand it otherwise.

So I need to come up with Gensoukyou's military for 2476, 2511, and 2530.  The 2476 one is pretty much settled with Type 65 tanks and Type 64 APCs, which could be provided by Sapporo easily enough.  2530 needs updated development years, and 2511...won't be that different from 2476 except for the presence of AW-02 tanks, just a larger army due to the larger population.  That's probably the era of 12 brigades, before the stand-down of forces to allow the TL4.5 equipment to be built.

TL5 is behind the times for Sapporo to use after their jump in 2515.  I suppose the TL5 vehicles I came up with could be someone else's military development.  I'll keep the designs on file in case anyone wants a complete family of TL5 vehicles for somewhere across the Fringe.

TL5
Tanks
  Main Battle Tank: M-9A Oni
  Breaching Vehicle: M-9I Inugami
  Engineering Vehicle: M-9U Komainu
  Armored Bridgelayer: M-9E Bakeneko
Artillery = archery
  Self Propelled Gun: M-80A Daikyuu
  Rocket Artillery Vehicle: M-80I Hiya
  Heavy SAM Vehicle: M-80U Hamaya
IFV = weapons
  Infantry Fighting Vehicle: M-145A Katana
  Command Vehicle: M-145I Naginata
  SAM Vehicle: M-145U Kusarigama
  Radar/EW Vehicle: M-145E Yari
  ATGM Carrier: M-145O Tonbokiri
  Mortar Carrier: M-145Ka Tessen
  Reconnaissance Vehicle: M-145Ki Jitte
  Fire Direction Vehicle: M-145Ku Kunai
  Artillery Radar Vehicle: M-145Ke Tanto

I think that covers a proper family of land vehicles.

Renamed the Type 74 record sheet to the AW-02, posting the updated sheet here.

EDIT

Also created a TL3 100 ton patrol ship for 2475, something to turn the GNDF from a brown water navy into a blue water navy.  100 tons may seem like a lot but it disappears quickly when you start stocking up on supplies and ammunition.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Developed after the Merriweather invasion and occupation of Gensoukyou, the Type 80 Artillery Vehicle was constructed as a means of repurposing Type 65 MBT hulls that had survived the fighting.  Refurbished and structurally reinforced to handle the extra weight, a moderately-armored turret replaced the 90mm gun turret of the Type 65.  This turret would house a 155mm artillery piece with 36 shells and an autoloading system capable of 2rpm sustained fire.  It would be developed to fill in the battalions of the newly created artillery brigade, providing longer-ranged fires than the 105mm gun mounted on the Type 65 Artillery Vehicle.

[Failure16]

All looking quite good so far.

You know, I always imagined that the Sapporans would be a homeworld or nothing type of group, but as I get to know them more, I am not sure that is correct at all. I do think that they learned a lot from the GISW (eventually to be ISW1), practically and morally, and I think that the 2511 war will show them that they have to have everyone on board if the SDR--and Sapporo itself--is to survive in the long term.

Shikotan and Asano were colony worlds, and small ones at that. Sapporo and the SDR were never in jeopardy. But they were shocked by an enemy that really believed in Stalin's maxim of quantity having a quality all its own. Not only believed it but practiced it and was willing to get those numbers on someone else's planet.

I do think they believe that superior technology will carry the day for them, and I think that they believe it even more so when they saw the NRU advisors and their shiny new tanks in action. But I believe what scared them to their rising-sun cores was that they had fallen asleep at the wheel and now they were nowhere near the technological pinnacle--and they believe a storm is coming, and coming soon.

And they should know.

[ANS Kamas P81]

That maxim of Stalin's definitely applies to Mriya as well.

So what do I call the Type ## series of vehicles, since they're Sapporoan creations?  The tank is easy, the AW-65 following in the naming convention of the AW-02 and AW-15.  The APC family could use a designation, and there's that AW-65 variant the Type 80 artillery vehicle.

ISW1, and the 2411 war with the HPK, were solid blows to the Sapporoan ego.  You definitely make a great case why they'd jump from the AW-02 to the AW-15, though it makes me sad that the Type 74 only serves for 13 years before its replacement hits the pavement.  It lives on until the 20s in Gensoukyou, so it gets a little more love there.

The mindset that quality is a quality all its own is one that Gensoukyou believes in too.  The military's small, but the 2520s pushed a whole new level of development after Sapporo shared the technologies the NRU gave them.  Maybe not fusion engines and gauss cannons, but enough to bring the rest of the SDR into a comfortable upper TL4.

I've also reconsidered the wheeled AFVs in the GGDF.  They're twice the weight of the Uma family of vehicles, so they're hardly the lighter force I'd hoped for.  I'm going to drop them from the ranks of the GGDF, replacing the two Rapid Response brigades with two Old-style Mechanized brigades with AW-02s and Type 64 APCs.  The Kitsune designs can still be another world's AFV family, maybe designed by Gensoukyou but produced on Asano or Tomokomai.  That leaves the GGDF organized by the following:

1st Division "Oukami" (Wolf)
4th Armored Brigade "Tokugawa Ieyasu"
1st New Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Toyotomi Hideoshi"
7th Old Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Takeda Shingen"
5th Artillery Brigade "Sanada Yukimura"
9th Aviation Brigade "Miyamoto Musashi"

3rd Division "Mamushi" (Pit Viper)
2nd Armored Brigade "Minamoto no Yoshitsune"
10th New Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Tomoe Gozen"
3rd Old Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Kusunoki Masashige"
6th Artillery Brigade "Date Masamune"
8th Aviation Brigade "Oda Nobunaga"

The two Old Mechanized Brigades are formations and equipment from the previous generation, the Type 65 family of APCs and the AW-02 tank.  I like the Type 74 a lot too, and I figured production of the new vehicles on Gensoukyou wouldn't be enough to completely replace the older hardware by 2530.  That leaves two battalions of AW-02s  and six battalions of Kurokumas, 82 of the former and 198 of the latter.  It also means I'm still using 60-65 year old AFVs in some cases, but the Gensoukyouans are okay with that.  "Moving at a comfortable pace" is their thing rather than crash programs and emergency situations like Mriya ends up with.

A playable force for the New Brigades:
Headquarters Element
  HQ Section (M-6A Kurokuma, Tank Infantry Squad, M-131A Kotetsu no Uma, M-131I Kin no Uma, M-131U Akai Uma x2)
  Supply Section (2 M35 Trucks, 2 M-44A Koakuma)
  Maintenance Section (M-6I Shirokuma, M-131A Kotetsu no Uma, M35 Truck)
Primary Combat Force
  Tank Platoon (M-6A Kurokuma x3, Tank Infantry Squad x3)
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon (M-131A Kotetsu no Uma x4, 4 Man Rifle Team, 7 Man Rifle Team x3, HWT/GML x2)
Additional Combat Platoons
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon (M-131A Kotetsu no Uma x4, 4 Man Rifle Team, 7 Man Rifle Team x3, HWT/GML x2)
  ATGMV Section (M-131Ka Raima x2)
Combat Support Elements
  Recon Platoon (M-44A Koakuma x8, 4 Man Rifle Team x8)
  Air-Defense Section (M-131O Hoshi no Uma x2)
  Fire Support (Artillery) (12 Off-Board Medium Artillery Missions)

And one for the Old Brigades in 2530, which is also valid for 2511's war with the HPK.
Headquarters Element
  HQ Section (AW-02 MBT, Type 65 APC, 4 Man Rifle Team x3, Type 66 Command Post Vehicle, Type 66 Mortar Vehicle x2)
  Supply Section (2 M35 Trucks, 2 Jeeps)
  Maintenance Section (Type 65 Engineer Vehicle, Type 64 APC, 4 Man Rifle Team x3, M35 Truck)
Primary Combat Force
  Tank Platoon (AW-02 MBT x4)
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon (Type 64 APC x3, 4 Man Rifle Team x9)
Additional Combat Platoons
  Tank Platoon (AW-02 MBT x4)
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon (Type 64 APC x3, 4 Man Rifle Team x9)
Combat Support Elements
  Air-Defense Section (Type 67 Antiaircraft Vehicle x2)
  Fire Support: Battalion (Type 66 Mortar Vehicle x4)
  Fire Support: Close Air Support (Type 70 Gunship x2)

[Daryk]

F16, as Cappy puts it, it sounds like the Sapporans "lost a whole generation of modernization": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7HX3jGLtc

[ANS Kamas P81]

Sapporo stagnated a while after the Resumption, only at TL3 by the 26th century.  The AW-65 gets replaced by the AW-02, which isn't such a big jump in capability.  Then they certainly skipped a couple generations going from TL3 AW-02 to TL6 AW-15.  That crash development program with the NRU tech support jumped them from turbocharged diesels and 105mm cannon to fusion engines and massdrivers in four years. 

[Daryk]

That's a much more efficient effort than Army Futures Command! :)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Considering the shock that happened when the HPK invaded, especially striking deep into the heart of the SDR by hitting Asano, they had good impetus to modernize - and I suspect Sapporo's not got the bureaucracy of the US Army, with corporations controlling the government.  They may need to account for every last bolt to the corporate beancounters, but any company knows modernization and rapid improvements to technology are a good thing to embrace.

That and everything that Sapporo upgraded to was a mature technology developed by Hochstadt and sold to them at a very likely high price - but the Sapporoans can make back some of those bucks by licensing their advancements to the other worlds of the SDR and opening up new markets.

It's kind of a surprise that Gensoukyou didn't issue new vehicles after the 2477 liberation from Merriweather's clutches.  Then again, their first generation of AFVs was still pretty new, ten to twelve years old and still in a low rate of production to fill in for peacetime operational losses.  There's also the attitude of Gensoukyou's citizens to consider as well.  The AW-02 gets adopted pretty quickly, and fills out the seven tank battalions by 2411.  It should do well against the T-75 and T-76 tanks, though the T-77 is a tough nut to crack unless you can outmaneuver it (not hard) and get on its flanks.  That T-77 would definitely be the impetus to develop heavy ATGMs and vehicles like the Raima missile carrier.

[Failure16]

Sapporo's technological resurgence is pretty shocking, even to me. I would submit that they already had the technology underpinning in place, they just hadn't deployed any of it because they were suffering from a post-war/blackout malaise. Like I said earlier: imagine a cyberpunk society of your choice and that is Sapporo. Hong Kong, Tokyo, Bahrain...

Having someone hand you a working example of the future allows you to simply leverage what you already have and mould it into a usable form. If the HRU had given them hovertanks, they might well have gone that way.

Notice that the AW-15/8 do not have uniformly high technology ratings--most of the electronics are TL5--but the powerpack, armor and possibly the weapons are considered TL6-quality. I'd say that Hochstadt made an error in bringing the -T4 Buschmeister to the party, but I had made the AW-18 a decade or more ago, so they had to get there somewhere from the nebulous AW-02. Mitsuyota almost certainly had the -15/8 on the drawing boards for years and just waited for the need and missing pieces to appear like mana from heaven. Speaking of which, I need to backfill the naming convention for "AW". That has been lost to the mists of time.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Okay, so Sapporo was lagging in their military, but their civilian goods were definitely higher quality than TL3.  They just needed the push from the NRU to guide how to apply their advanced tech to the military, and the impetus from the 2411 invasion of Shikotan and Asano. 

The idea that the Type 65 APC family would soldier on without modification for 65 years until 2530 is stretching things for me; life extension programs are one thing but the design remaining unchanged I can't really mentally accept.  I'm going to beef them up to 12.5 tons to match the TL4.5 Umas, which should give me some room for upgrades over their lifespan.  Thirty years is enough time to see a new and improved TL3 APC family, so I'll call the base model the Type 95.  A VEESS and crew protection system were added, though active protection systems are too advanced yet.  The trio of machine guns was replaced with an armored turret carrying a 20mm autocannon, and one MG was kept in a cupola mount.

I also modified the AW-02 to fit Sapporo and Gensoukyou's protective mindset; I added a exhaust smoke system and a crew protection system to this as well.  I also changed the turret armor to 10 points.  The tonnage came from reducing the side protection to 4 and the rear protection to 3, because the Type 74 it's based on only has 35mm side armor and 25mm rear armor.  The turret, meanwhile, is nearly 200mm thick at its strongest, while the slope of the front is 180mm.  It's very much a Front Towards Enemy machine.

As far as the name AW, I figure maybe it stands for Armored Weapon?  It's probably just a letter code to designate tanks, like M# for the US military or T# for the Soviets, and has no actual meaning beyond that. 

[ANS Kamas P81]

Since I bulked up the APC, I might as well do the Command Vehicle and Fire Direction Control Center Vehicle as well, giving their officer-heavy crews the protection of the CPS and engine exhaust smoke systems.  Armor's the same as before, and they manage to have a cupola mounted machine gun to ward off pesky infantry and helicopters.  Not much, it's more there to make the crew and staff feel better than actually be useful.

[ANS Kamas P81]

The Antiaircraft Vehicle sprouted a second autocannon in its upgrade, and has pretty deep ammo bins.  RFC/2s aren't great, but they're better than medium machine guns, and two of them brings a decent amount of firepower here.  The FCS was improved to give it a bonus to hit air targets as well as ground; I can picture this being pressed into use as a fire support vehicle for infantry when it's not got air targets to worry about.

The other vehicle I upgraded was the Mortar Carrier, the biggest change was going from an 81mm mortar to a 120mm heavy mortar and deeper ammo reserves.  The infantry carried is the mortar crew, which is probably a bit large for a 120mm mortar but you can never have enough ammo bearers. 

And again, both vehicles get CPS and VEESS for protection.

A playable force for 2511 and older technology in 2530:
Headquarters Element
  HQ Section (AW-02 MBT, Type 95 APC, 4 Man Rifle Team x3, Type 96 Command Post Vehicle, Type 98 Heavy Mortar Vehicle x2)
  Supply Section (2 M35 Trucks, 2 Jeeps)
  Maintenance Section (Type 65 Engineer Vehicle, Type 95 APC, 4 Man Rifle Team x3, M35 Truck)
Primary Combat Force
  Tank Platoon (AW-02 MBT x4)
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon (Type 95 APC x3, 4 Man LATR Rifle Team x9)
Additional Combat Platoons
  Tank Platoon (AW-02 MBT x4)
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon (Type 95 APC x3, 4 Man LATR Rifle Team x9)
Combat Support Elements
  Air-Defense Section (Type 97 Antiaircraft Vehicle x2)
  Fire Support: Battalion (Type 98 Heavy Mortar Vehicle x4)
  Fire Support: Close Air Support (Type 70 Gunship x2)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Last vehicle replaces both the Type 65 105mm artillery vehicle and the Type 80 155mm artillery vehicle.  Like the Type 80, it's built on the hull of a Type 65 MBT, but with an enlarged armored turret that carries the 155mm 52 caliber cannon, an autoloading system, and an increased magazine of 48 rounds.  In addition, crew protection equipment as well as a vehicle smoke system have been fitted to protect the vehicle and its personnel.  The armor profile remains the same as the Type 80, with relatively thin armor on the turret compared to the hull.  By 2508, this vehicle was the only artillery piece in the Gensoukyouan inventory.

Speaking of inventories, F16, do you have a naming convention outside of AW-Year# for vehicles for Sapporo?  I've got a bunch of all-TL5 vehicles that could fill out their roster.  Right now they're all named with Gensoukyou's conventions, but I can redo that and post them if you're interested.

35 ton frame
  Self Propelled 203mm Gun
  Heavy Rocket Artillery Vehicle
  Heavy SAM Vehicle
18.5 ton frame
  Infantry Fighting Vehicle
  Command Vehicle
  SAM Vehicle
  Radar/EW Vehicle
  ATGM Carrier
  Mortar Carrier
  Reconnaissance Vehicle
  Fire Direction Vehicle
  Artillery Radar Vehicle

And I can develop an engineer vehicle and a breacher vehicle as well as a heavy bridgelayer based on the AW-15 hull as well.  Let me know how to label them and I'll spam the thread with designs for Sapporo's SDF.

[Failure16]

I imagine that the non-tank vehicles would be "Type-##" just as Japanese vehicles are now. It seems basic, and it is, but it is also very very straightforward and fits right in with their cyberpunk-lite aesthetic. And it you don't give me a Type 96alogue, I'll have to. That thing is too much of a beauty to not be Fringified.



So, I have been trying to work through the files chanman dropped off like a bomb. It is slow going because the computer I have that runs HMV is old and fickle, so I get the time on it wants me to have. I get the impression a lot of the designs were made without fluff text, or at least that text was provided at the time of posting and not as part of the HMV file itself. So, I won't be posting just straight designs.

This one I thought was germane, at least tangentially. The main file was for the T-91S, which I very lightly edited to bring it up to present canon, but it is chanman's original work, writing, and backstory. As a side note, this Tankreator version came to with a hundred kilos of the original HMV design, which is pretty impressive, I think. The lead-in with the T-91(B) data is my own poor addition.

Up Like Thunder: The Invasion of Flanders Excerpt (Kahler Interstellar Press, 2512):    T-91, T-91B, & T-91S 'Spiker'

==Background: The T-91 and -91B==

The T-91 was a relatively standard main-battle tank made on Cherkasy as a local alternative to the then-standard T-75 made on Novosibirsk. With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to say now that this was, in itself, evidence of a departure of thought and intent on the part of the Cherkasians from the Novosibirsk Coalition’s fundamental (and literal) party-line—workers uniting in solidarity against the injustices of Mankind’s universe. In 2491, it was seemingly merely another attempt by HPK tank manufacturers to produce a tank that could hold its own against its peers, one that was doomed to fail because the Novosibirsk Duma would never accept it as an actual HPK standard design while they tooled around with their T75/6/7 line.

Thus far, all T-91 models weigh in at approximately 56 tonnes and are conventionally situated, with a driver’s compartment forward; fighting compartment in a round, flattened turret with just enough space for the commander, gunner, and autoloader for the main-gun’ and compact hardy diesel engine in the rear (often with two detachable extra field tanks). As with most HPK designs, the T-91 is relatively fast capable of at least 50 kph over unimproved terrain and over 70 kph on a paved roadway. It features fair armor protection, able to withstand 105mm on its glacis and turret face and mid-range autocannon fire to its flanks and even rear. It does feature the Assassin point-defense system, capable of engaging incoming rockets and missiles from all aspects. It is armed with a 115mm DT2314 smoothbore cannon with fifty rounds stored in a carousel autoloader circling the turret basket, a 7.62mm coaxial machine gun, and  HPK-standard 14.5 HMG at the commander’s cupola for local or airborne threats.

Uncommonly, the T-91 has as small dozer blade on the underside of the front hull. This allows it to dig its own revetments, saving engineer units to conduct more important missions or tasks. Like most Cherkasian armored vehicles, it is not amphibious in a tactical sense, but it can be sealed and driven completely submerged for up to a half hour if given the proper kits, tools, and 1-2 hours. The T-91 utilized standard electronics and fire controls, common to much of the Settled Worlds. In a coming sign of the times, it also featured an overpressure system to allow operations in compromised or tainted environments.

The improved version, T-91B, first seen on Flanders in 2502, maintained the bulk of the T-91’s systems. It was given an upgraded, more modern engine that produced a third again more power, which allowed the redesigned turret and glacis to carry more slightly protection, in addition to the reactive armor spread over its front arc and turret. The 115mm main gun was switched for a DT2498. This kept the offensive power and penetrative capabilities the same, but allowed through-barrel guided-missiles to be fired, vastly increasing its reach and destructive power.

While a bit of a shock when first encountered amidst the snow-dusted grey expanses of a Flanderian winter, the T-91B was obviously a elder brother to the T-91—better at some things, but with the same DNA. Post-Flanders, the T-91 has been successively upgraded to the T-91F standard and is currently in the midst of heavy fighting on the world of Asano, deep in Sapporan space. It has also provided the basis for the BTT-03, a main-battle tank/infantry transport hybrid that has become the jewel of Cherkasian operational doctrine.

==Overview: A Different T-91==

Despite being one of the oldest mercenary units in the Fringe, the Luddington Combat Group has long been disparaged as the best of a bad lot. Being branded as the premiere Herman Jockey unit had a certain sting to it, a title that had led to more than a few busted bars and busted heads, collateral damage as the LCG's doughty troopers addressed certain... misconceptions of their unit held by their supposed betters.

Underpaid, unappreciated, and often as unwelcome as invasive dental surgery, for decades the LCG made its living fighting through the hellhole backwaters of the Fringe, oppressing and liberating in turn as their contracts required. Hardened by the endless scrapping with desperate rebels, fanatical guerillas, corrupt governments, and callous nobility, the LCG accepted a pair of complimentary garrison contracts on Flanders with the small true planetary militia and Prism Technologies expecting a bit of peace and quiet from what had the appearance of a cushy garrison posting. 

(Far from expecting to need protection, Prism Tech's contract was issued because Flanders' planetary charter requires on-planet corporations to contribute to planetary defence either through a cash levy, a garrison contract, or the assignment of their own armed assets.  For Prism Tech's bean counters, the LCG contract offered the best deal at the end of the cost-benefit analysis, especially when the planetary militia stumped up for part of the contract.)

From such a perfectly unassuming assignment are reputations made and legends born; the LCG's narrow escape from pursuing Coalition forces, made possible by daring leadership and the liberal sacrifice of blood and steel provided ample media fodder.  Tri-D and various book deals being handled by the LCG's overworked quartermaster and legal corps only added to the newfound publicity. The upshot though, was that for once the LCG were viewed as the tough, disciplined, dedicated lucrewarriors that they had always known themselves to be, and with the rep came the promise of juicy high-visibility, high-pay contracts once the unit had finished rebuilding from its heavy losses of men and material on Flanders.

Contracts that the LCG in even its best days, was not equipped to handle.  One does not tackle able enemy armour in Hermans, no matter how upgraded.  In a tank-on-tank, Hermans are the manned targets slaughtered at appalling rates by better machines, a lesson not lost on the LCG when reviewing the unit's bloody encounters with Novosibirsk T-77s.

After much all-ranks discussion between the surviving LCG personnel and shareholders, it was decided that the regiment would begin re-equipping with an as-yet undecided MBT, with the remaining Giovannis replacing any still-serving stock or near-stock Hermans.
When bids were solicited, one proposal surprised all observers.  While it was expected that most of the usual suspects would be flogging their usual line of products (with exact configurations depending on the LCG's preferences and budget), Vickers Defence entered, not a variation of their evergreen line of Private Venture MBTs, but a modernized, customized copy of the Cherkasian T-91.

Two factors were in play here: With the Royal Ordnance and Vickers facilities on Flanders hastily relocating to friendlier environs outside the range of hostile artillery batteries, Vickers was unable to build any turrets, and their inventory of spare systems had been used up constructing the ASP hybrids.

Secondly, decades ago, in order to secure extensive export and development licenses to the Rossler/Shives Mark 1/2, Vickers had agreed that they would not manufacture any MBTs descended from that design on Merriweather, essentially ceding Merriweather Armed Forces MBT contracts to the MAC due to the MAF's domestic content requirements. Despite sharing no parts and being separated by over half a century, even the latest Mark X and prototype Mark XI could trace an unbroken lineage from the venerable Mark 1 and 2, preventing their manufacture on Vickers' secondary MBT facilities on Merriweather.

As such, more than a few parties were surprised when Vickers showed up at the LCG's impromptu training grounds on Flanders (cooling their heels while waiting for their contracted term to run down) with a platoon of covered MBTs on heavy transporters.  That was, however, nothing compared to the shock of what was revealed when the covers were removed to reveal a quintet of...T-91s.
Using undisclosed sources to facilitate their industrial espionage, the Vickers T-91S 'Spiker' is heavily reconfigured from a stock T-91 despite nearly identical dimensions, weights, and visual profiles.

While the Cherkasian Ministry of Trade has protested voraciously to the Government of Mansfield, the Mansfield government has declared its hands are tied as Vickers is a 'Nomadic' concern with no single main home world.  For its part, Vickers easily convinced sympathetic courts that its nominally illegal actions represent a small and perfectly valid reparation for the damage inflicted on its facilities by Cherkasian forces operating under the aegis of the HPK.  The fact that the short 'public' development time of the T-91S implies that the espionage underpinning Project Spiker has been underway for years already was conveniently overlooked.

==Capabilities:==

The exact same weight as the T-91B, the Spiker uses a Rolls Royce “Lancelot 170” multifuel engine to provide similar, if somewhat smoother and less smoky, performance.

The armour layout and protection is similar, but the original aluminum alloy is replaced with a Vickers ‘Stillbrew’ mild composite which provides slightly better protection on the frontal and side arcs. This is augmented on the forward hull-facing and turret with ERA (now Vickers Guardian) as on its progenitor.  The biggest change is the substantial up-armouring of the tank's rear and top, a necessary change given the LCG's tendency to fight in urban areas. An advanced automatic passive defensive system based partly on reverse-engineered examples of the Cherkasian system is used to protect the tank.

The original fire control electronics as seen on the unveiled tanks on Flanders were the same Siemens MultiSpectrum 4E as on the ASP tanks that the LCG made do with for several months, easing transition, and providing performance on par with the most advanced Cherkasian systems fielded. The post-Flanders models offered for sale now feature an upgraded MS5B system that is easily on par with all but the highest grade FCS’s from firms like NRM of Hochstadt.

Unlike the T-91 and -91B though, the -91S dispenses with the integral bulldozer blade in favour with a modular attachment point to allow various accessories to be used.  Standard LCG doctrine is for one vehicle of each platoon to have a bulldozer blade for clearing obstacles while a second sports a mine plow for breaching.

Despite a similar bulk and length, the main gun of the 91S is the famed rifled L42 120mm gun, also making a reappearance from the ASP-MBT's Mark 72 turret.

While the designers decided to remove the ability to fire through-barrel ATGMs, LCG crews generally regard the ability to accurately fire both HE and KE munitions to be much more important than the easily-negated killing power of ATGMs.  As a bonus, the smaller breach and lighter barrel allow a much larger range of elevation than the T-91's main gun.

Perhaps the largest change though, can be found on the top of the round Novo-style ballistic shaped turret.  Adapting to their own observations that LCG crews spend a lot of time out of their AFVs (for better situational awareness) engaging enemy light forces, the Vickers design team provided an oversized topside remote weapon station, sporting an automatic grenade launcher, and impressively oversized 20mm autocannon.  Mated to helmet sights, the weapons can be fired accurately both inside and outside the vehicle. The RWS mini-turret is armored to withstand 14.5mm HMG fire while sturdy hardened steel gunshields help protect exposed crew from small arms fire.

During the New Years Invasion of Flanders, Vickers officials responded to concerns over the possibility of friendly fire by noting that given the tangled arms supply relationships and use of mercenary units, there are already plenty of potential like-vs.-like engagements, and as a result, any professional force with a hint of ability has implemented identification and designation procedures long ago.

==Notable Vehicles & Crew:==

Commander Fredrik Marcos and "Evil Twin"

The senior Vickers security officer, Commander Marcos was in charge of the T-91S demonstration team on Flanders.  On several instances, the good commander got his platoon 'lost' in areas bordering Novo Coalition land, sometimes still painted in fake Cherkasian camoflauge.  While risking censure if caught, the commander seemed unable to resist confusing his “Nerk” neighbours.

"Evil Twin" can be identified by her distinctive three-digit bort number. Unbeknownst to observers, the Bort numbers are not painted, but are similar to oversized refrigerator magnets, allowing Evil Twin and her platoon-mates to alter their identity in minutes.

==Deployment==

A new product that overlaps with their Private Venture mainstays, the future of the T-91S is somewhat uncertain, but enough interest remains that the program is unlikely to be completely shut down.

As of early 2505, T-91S was still in pre-production with early examples being evaluated in a variety of different locales by various undisclosed groups either looking to upgrade their equipment or hoping to gain a better understanding of a design that they may soon face on the Fringe's blood-soaked battlefields.

[DOC_Agren]

so what about a Skyraider A1 knockoff for ground attack role?
and a Vought F4U Corsair for scary strike fighter?
could they be updated to "modern gear"?

And has anyone made the PT-76 family of vehicles? BTR-50 armored personnel carrier, the ZSU-23-4 self-propelled antiaircraft gun, the ASU-85 airborne self-propelled gun and the 2K12 Kub anti-aircraft missile launch vehicle.