IS ERLL Range “Conspiracy”

[Hazard Pay]

Was the inner Sphere ER Large Laser range deliberately gimped?

Normal Large Laser: 1-5/6-10/11-15

IS ERLL: 1-7/8-14/15-19

Looking at the numbers, the ERLL followed a +2/+4/+6 bracket increase but ended up with +4 again for the Long Range rather than the expected +6.

While it still wouldn't be the most amazing gun, a 7/14/21 8d/12h 5t gun would've been appreciated. Same range bands as the LRMs. The only reason I can imagien for the nerfing was it would've stepped on the ERPPC's toes, as the ranges only differ at Long with ERPPC gaining +2 while weighing two tons heavier and running 3 heat hotter. ERPPC also is larger at 3 vs 2 Crits.

Does anyone else think this? has their been any commentary by Line Devs in the past?

[Daryk]

I don't sweat it... Extreme Range is still 28 hexes and the Sniper SPA makes Extreme easier than Long.

[I am Belch II]

The ER LL is a not a great weapon. Lots of heat for not a real range advantage. If it could match a LRM reach that would be more of a balanced weapon.

[Maingunnery]

has their been any commentary by Line Devs in the past?

Not that I know off, however the stats of some weapons might have been caused by mistakes that the Devs didn't want to retcon.
For example there is a rumor that Clan LRMs should have gotten a minimum range but that was left out by mistake. 

[Daryk]

I've heard that rumor, but there's never been a retcon.

[Maingunnery]

I've heard that rumor, but there's never been a retcon.

That is the point, a retcon in those days would have been a great hassle, so just living with no-minimum-range LRMs was deemed the lesser evil.

[beachhead1985]

The advantage is really in the improved short and medium range bands.

[DevianID]

So as a support weapon, the range band of the IS ERLL is actually really good.  It reinforces that large lasers are the medium range weapons, and ER PPCs are the long range snipers.  In BV balancing, it would be a worse weapon IMHO at 21 hexes of long range.  Or, imagine if it had the 20 hex range of the clan large pulse with 6/14/20.  I think, for IS weapons, the 7 hex short range is better then the 20 hex long range, infact i like 7/14/19 better as a profile then 6/14/20.  For an even worse range band with a 'longer' range, imagine if the IS ER Large had the 20 hex band of the IS UAC5.  That is truly a cursed range band at 6/13/20

[Luciora]

Or the SL gauss rifle that had 10 shots instead of 8 from the first printing of TRO:2750

I've heard that rumor, but there's never been a retcon.

[Mechanis]

Part of the problem with a lot of the advanced technology is a combination of being statted out prior to Battle Value being a thing, leading to severe issues in terms of lore and statistical consistency from attempts to "keep things balanced", part of it is from "nothing is allowed to be just flat out better than IntroTech" and some of it is legacy errors from early editions of the game. Simply put, BT has some equipment stat issues and rules problems (Like active probes not actually doing anything in standard play with no optional rules); at this point the only reasonable time for stat alteration (from official sources) would be simultaneously with a theoretical "BV 3", since that would invalidate all previous record sheets anyway.

The whole thing is honestly a symptom of the lack of planning for a technological progression, which resulted in a period of post ex facto justification for "they have this but don't use it For Reasons" with variable levels of beliviblity (which, you know, could have been "they had this all along, it just didn't show up on screen" but W/E)

[DevianID]

For the most part I cant think of anything that needs stat adjustments, if we assume battlevalue gets updates.  I also dont think a battlevalue change ruins the existing record sheets... while, like the older books with published BV values for 'bv1' and 'combat value', if they post BV3 as a tech manual errata (i have strong thoughts on what the fixes should be), the only change is the BV number on the record sheet calling to BV2, and new record sheets can have BV3 printed on it.  For anyone actually using BV3, they will have the tool/resources to see the 'new' number, which they can pencil in on their old record sheets if they really want to.

As for tech, I agree things like rocket launchers which were back dated, along with about a dozen other things, kinda stings.  There are numerous mechs in the 3rd succession war that would have greatly benefited from some of the retro tech, so its annoying to see it get post dated but never used.  Pirate and periphery rocket mechs not being around in 3025 in cannon sources feels like a wasted opportunity, justified in universe by primitive rockets being too expensive, and justified out of universe cause in the 80s the rocket launcher didnt exist so didnt get talked about.  Same with primitive mechs... there is great opportunity for 'cheap' low tech primitives to bulk up the failing tech base in the succession war, but it wasnt until the Jihad they had the idea to make less advanced version of mechs?  Like, its a great idea immediately hamstrung by a lack of playability.  So I agree with you mechanis.

As for the probe, at least in the older books hidden units was much more prevalent as a rule.  It still shows up in the newer books, but with the focus on more 'versus' type stuff even in the chaos campain missions hidden units ambush killing your opponents stuff isnt popular for a versus game, unlike narrative/asymmetric games in older scenario books which weren't well balanced at all.  A lot of missions now are giving the probe a different job, to avoid using hidden units rules in the interest of more fair gameplay.  But seeing as the probe was build to counter hidden units, I think the very low BV of the probe combined with it still having situational usefulness means the probe is in a good spot, as far as BV is concerned. 

[Daryk]

Heck, they never fixed all the 'mechs with full tons of MG ammo when they allowed half tons of the stuff way back at the beginning.

[Hellraiser]

The ER LL is a not a great weapon. Lots of heat for not a real range advantage. If it could match a LRM reach that would be more of a balanced weapon.

I have to disagree.

Losing 2 hexes at Long, None at Extreme, while having No Minimum & matching the LRMs in Short/Medium makes for a very solid weapon.

This thing gets crapped on against the ERPPC because people look at Max/Long & that's it.

ERPPC gained 1-Short, 1 Medium, 3 Long.
ERLL gained 2-Short, 2 Medium, 0 Long.  And is 2 tons less.
I'll take that deal any day.

The real gain for the ERPPC was the removal of Min Range.
Being able to close in for a Kick while keeping your PPCs effective is way more useful than those 3 extra hexes at long range.

[Hellraiser]

For example there is a rumor that Clan LRMs should have gotten a minimum range but that was left out by mistake. 

I've heard that rumor, but there's never been a retcon.

The way I heard it was there was a typo on the chart in TRO:3050 & the players liked it so much they didn't do a retcon.
The fluff for the missile launchers was just "half weight" w/ no mention of any range change at all, w/ the "chart" missing the minimum column.

[Agathos]

I agree with DevianID and Hellraiser. The long range band is the least important. I don't land a lot of hits when I'm starting with a +4. Give me stretched-out short and medium bands, and a compressed long band, over the reverse any day.

[garhkal]

The ER LL is a not a great weapon. Lots of heat for not a real range advantage. If it could match a LRM reach that would be more of a balanced weapon.

Maybe that's WHY they gimped it..  They didn't Want it matching the LRM.

[Syzyx]

I had always believed that the original ER weapons, LL and PPC, simply had their ranges increased by 25% and heat increased by 50%.

Large Laser has a 15 hex range. Multiplied by 1.25 gives us 18.75 hexes which rounds up to 19.
PPC has an 18 hex range. Multiplied by 1.25 gives us 22.5 hexes which rounds up to 23.

I don't believe there was any more thought put into it than that.