Machines of the First Princes?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Kind of weird that someone who was “too skinny” to be a mechwarrior could perform as infantry.

[Hellraiser]

wouldn't one of the earlier ones have piloted a Mackie?

I mentioned up thread that since Marauder can't fit the Timeline for Alexander......... the Mackie & Striker both match a weapon load of PPC/AC/MLs.
As does the Hammerhands-4D that someone else mentioned.
But given they both start with MA, I kind of like the Mackie idea myself.  Minor Typo :)

[Hellraiser]

Kind of weird that someone who was “too skinny” to be a mechwarrior could perform as infantry.

Size doesn't have much to do with Hand-Eye coordination though for being a good shot.
Or for the concepts of Map Reading, Small Unit Tactics, etc etc.

She was clearly intelligent......... and the Brain is your best weapon.    That & Ortillery. 

[Mendrugo]

I mentioned up thread that since Marauder can't fit the Timeline for Alexander......... the Mackie & Striker both match a weapon load of PPC/AC/MLs.
As does the Hammerhands-4D that someone else mentioned.
But given they both start with MA, I kind of like the Mackie idea myself.  Minor Typo :)

Raven says that Alexander's 'Mech has Hellstar PPCs in each arm and and a big Whirlwind cannon backing it up.  The other main user of the Hellstar was the Striker, but that wasn't developed until 2571, long after the Davion Civil War.

[Mendrugo]

Kind of weird that someone who was “too skinny” to be a mechwarrior could perform as infantry.

"That's the third Warhammer she's plowed into the Estates General, your highness...this week!"

"She's learning."

"She has no feel or aptitude for it.  When we gave her the test to see if she could move the model 'Mech with the neurohelmet, it spontaneously combusted!  I recommend we transfer her to the infantry."

"She'll be shattered."

"We'll tell her it's because she's too skinny.  She'll believe that and save face."

[Hellraiser]

Raven says that Alexander's 'Mech has Hellstar PPCs in each arm and and a big Whirlwind cannon backing it up.  The other main user of the Hellstar was the Striker, but that wasn't developed until 2571, long after the Davion Civil War.

That is more detail than given up thread.

Now that said... Hmm.   I feel like you COULD get something like that via the Warhammer/Battleaxe chassis if you swap out the Missiles/Etc for an AC5.
PPC brand could be from a refit/repair change that resulted in the AC as well.

Possibly also paid for w/ a custom Endo chassis which was in use at that point.

Though really, I still think a customized Mackie is probably the easiest way to get that much firepower w/o huge changes.
The 7 Series used Standard tech v/s the Proto-Engine & was available for 50+ years at that point. 
We have 2 canon examples but the fluff seems to imply there where many.
You could even call it the 7"R" to match the Marauder series.

[Mendrugo]

Plus, they call it a Marauder about 30 times.  You could, I suppose, handwave that as the name he gave to his 'Mech, like "Dark Lady," "Grinner," or "Wepwawet."

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Size doesn't have much to do with Hand-Eye coordination though for being a good shot.
Or for the concepts of Map Reading, Small Unit Tactics, etc etc.

She was clearly intelligent......... and the Brain is your best weapon.    That & Ortillery. 

Does she also get a valet to carry her infantry kit for the 20 kilometer hike?  Infantry is generally a lot more physically strenuous than being a mechwarrior is.

[Mendrugo]

Does she also get a valet to carry her infantry kit for the 20 kilometer hike? 

Richard "Big Daddy" Whitman kept offering...

[Hellraiser]

Does she also get a valet to carry her infantry kit for the 20 kilometer hike?  Infantry is generally a lot more physically strenuous than being a mechwarrior is.

It was war games, doubt they had a road march.
Road Marches are done in Basic v/s AIT last I checked so I'm assuming everyone has that same level of physicality.
Maybe the skinny part was from being bounced around in the cockpit.  Pilot checks are a thing.
Maybe "frail" is a better word.
Fighter Pilots probably have to have some measure of stamina to survive G-Forces.
I can confirm that an Abrams can give you one heck of a shaking & that doesn't involve falls from 12M up.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It was war games, doubt they had a road march.
Road Marches are done in Basic v/s AIT last I checked so I'm assuming everyone has that same level of physicality.
Maybe the skinny part was from being bounced around in the cockpit.  Pilot checks are a thing.
Maybe "frail" is a better word.
Fighter Pilots probably have to have some measure of stamina to survive G-Forces.
I can confirm that an Abrams can give you one heck of a shaking & that doesn't involve falls from 12M up.

Yes, and my point is that if Melissa truly wasn't considered physically fit enough to be a mechwarrior, she probably wouldn't have actually been fit enough to serve as infantry, either.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Given all the action she saw, I'm surprised there is no note about what Melissa Davion was using with the Assault Guards or Avalon Hussars.

It's admittedly conjecture, but I think she drove an Awesome.  Why?  On p.63 of Handbook House Davion, there's a text block titled "The First Modern Prince" that's all about Melissa's military reforms, the Model Army, and the RCT.  Above it, taking up the rest of the page, is a picture (uncaptioned, as is sadly the norm in those books) of a female mechwarrior standing in front of two Awesomes.  The Awesome also fits with what we know of her service, since she was in the Assault Guards.  I don't know who *else* that would be a picture of, but I suppose all the logic in the world doesn't make that official canon.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

If that is true then that has got to be some serious short sightedness on his part.

He was going off to face the clans.  What if he died?  So the one he feels best to lead temporarily is then not eligible to take over?

Not saying your wrong, since, well, that is a great way to stop a regent from killing an Heir that is a Minor.
But it is an issue in the case of an absent leader.

Remember that Victor did this shortly after deciding Terra wasn't important despite the fact his WarShip navy was, at the time, 100% dependent on Terra for engines. He's a stupid man.

But yes, since Alexander, if you serve as a Regent you are automatically unable to ever be First Prince. He wanted to make sure anyone who ran the state would only do so knowing they could never rule in their own right if they did.

[BrianDavion]

Remember that Victor did this shortly after deciding Terra wasn't important despite the fact his WarShip navy was, at the time, 100% dependent on Terra for engines. He's a stupid man.

But yes, since Alexander, if you serve as a Regent you are automatically unable to ever be First Prince. He wanted to make sure anyone who ran the state would only do so knowing they could never rule in their own right if they did.

as I said before a lot of these mistakes where basicly FASA not reading their own books. and it really did create some plot holes for the FCCW and to som extent the Jihad.

[Hellraiser]

Remember that Victor did this shortly after deciding Terra wasn't important despite the fact his WarShip navy was, at the time, 100% dependent on Terra for engines. He's a stupid man.

But yes, since Alexander, if you serve as a Regent you are automatically unable to ever be First Prince. He wanted to make sure anyone who ran the state would only do so knowing they could never rule in their own right if they did.

as I said before a lot of these mistakes where basicly FASA not reading their own books. and it really did create some plot holes for the FCCW and to som extent the Jihad.

Technically it was FOCHT that decided that.
More accurately still, TERRA isn't where the engines were made. 
They were from the Titan Yards, something C* still still possessed for another 4? years after losing the planet.

[BrianDavion]

in fact Victor's immediate response when Terra was captured was to offer Focht the aide of the AFFC in recapturing Terra, had Focht accepted the offer chances are the word of blake would have been driven off world

[Templar87]

How so? The Taurians lost their Warship and also several important planets. While the Suns lost the Pleiades Cluster it became something of a weight around the Taurian's neck. And the one who ruined the Suns attack was Nathaniel Hasek when he brought a unit he was not supposed to bring with him (the Syrtis Avengers) to Ridgebrook

Well, firstly Yvonne shouldn't, from a political perspective, have been interfering in deployment choices like that; that kind of thing is explicitly the responsibility of the March Commands, and interference like that is one of the reasons that there's very little trust of New Avalon going into the Republic and Dark Age eras among the Marchs. But, that wasn't actually what I meant; what I meant, was Yvonne's decision to back down in the face of the Taurians' genocidal threats rather than make it clear that if they step over that line, the AFFS will escalate things and the Taurians will not enjoy the experience.


The Capellans and Kuritans absolutely 100% have no problem with threatening, or engaging in, mass slaughter to get their way, and Yvonne publicly backing down in the face of such threats is declaring open season on the Suns.

[Metallgewitter]

Well, firstly Yvonne shouldn't, from a political perspective, have been interfering in deployment choices like that; that kind of thing is explicitly the responsibility of the March Commands, and interference like that is one of the reasons that there's very little trust of New Avalon going into the Republic and Dark Age eras among the Marchs. But, that wasn't actually what I meant; what I meant, was Yvonne's decision to back down in the face of the Taurians' genocidal threats rather than make it clear that if they step over that line, the AFFS will escalate things and the Taurians will not enjoy the experience.


The Capellans and Kuritans absolutely 100% have no problem with threatening, or engaging in, mass slaughter to get their way, and Yvonne publicly backing down in the face of such threats is declaring open season on the Suns.

Not like the Taurians had already experienced that when the AFFS let Hansen's Roughriders loose and they cut a swath of destruction across the Concordat. Who's to say they could have not done the same again without WMD's? Plus the Concordat was basically pinned down already as the Warship was out of action. So in that case best not to let millions die for one world (not to mention the bloody Jihad was just over for a short time). And considering how Nathaniel threw the operation on ridgebrook away just shows that Yvonne was right and that the Haseks often have some screws loose in the head.

[Arkansas Warrior]

The AFFS didn’t so much let the Roughriders loose as they stayed out of the firing line.  The Roughriders seem like they would have been willing to fight through the AFFS to get to the Taurians.  Even years after the massacre, Hansen was only barely keeping his unit together himself.  It didn’t help that their AFFS liaison also lost his family on Bromhead, and wasn’t really willing to rein them in.

[Weirdo]

Hey, how much of this discussion belongs in a thread dedicated to identifying the machines piloted by leaders of the Federated Suns?

[BrianDavion]

Hey, how much of this discussion belongs in a thread dedicated to identifying the machines piloted by leaders of the Federated Suns?

yeah we've kinda veered off course. on a related note because I've been trying to figure out... what tank did Caleb crew? has it been mentioned?

[Metallgewitter]

yeah we've kinda veered off course. on a related note because I've been trying to figure out... what tank did Caleb crew? has it been mentioned?

An M1 Marksman I think

[Templar87]

yeah we've kinda veered off course. on a related note because I've been trying to figure out... what tank did Caleb crew? has it been mentioned?

Both times we've seen him fighting on-screen, in Fortress Republic and ER 3145, he's been using an M1 Marksman, apparently the base model.

[BrianDavion]

Both times we've seen him fighting on-screen, in Fortress Republic and ER 3145, he's been using an M1 Marksman, apparently the base model.

yeah I was wondering about that, apparently he really liked the patton but I figured he'd be in a MWDA tank

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Was there any word on how Caleb ended up as a tanker instead of a mechwarrior?  He really doesn't seem like he had the personality for it.

[Cannonshop]

Was there any word on how Caleb ended up as a tanker instead of a mechwarrior?  He really doesn't seem like he had the personality for it.

Position and requirement, I imagine. He's too aggressive to accept a desk job, and too vain to accept an infantry post, and probably couldn't hack 'mech training due to poor reflexes (same way he wouldn't be able to pass flight school), so there you go.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That makes sense.

[BrianDavion]

Apparently he simply didn't synch well with neurohelmets

[Cannonshop]

Apparently he simply didn't synch well with neurohelmets

given his canon behavior, it's possible he was neurologically defective, but I think he was just indulged and coddled to the point of being Joffrey'd into a human piece of waste.

[Templar87]

Was there any word on how Caleb ended up as a tanker instead of a mechwarrior?  He really doesn't seem like he had the personality for it.

Neurohelmet incompatibility, and shifted into armour command track for unspecified reasons.