Author Topic: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?  (Read 2624 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Just a question that popped into my head today.  I realized that it seemed that in the Inner Sphere, the 4/6 assault class omnis had largely gone out of production after the Jihad ended.  There was the Gladiator being built by the Dominion, of course, but aside from that all I can think of is the Ravens putting the Blood Asp into production eventually, the Iron Cheetah being built originally by the RotS, and the Scorpions eventually putting the Masakari and Star Crusader into production way off in their little empire in the boonies.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #1 on: 20 September 2024, 17:55:40 »
Lets see,  IIRC the list includes.

100-IronCheetah  -  Smoke Jags Prototype,  then,  RotS.
95-Executioner  -  Bears,  then,  Bears?
90-BloodAsp  -  Adders,  then,  Ravens put back into production on Dante.
90-KingFisher  -  Bears,  then,  Ravens put back into production on Dante.
85-WarHawk  -  Jags,  then Scorps,  then Scorps again.
85-Jade Phoenix - Falcons but not till 3148.
80-Dolaire  -  Mixed tech but it is partial Clan & 4/6MP.
80-StarCrusader  -  Scorps but not till 3148


Yeah, it's not a great selection, I look forward to some of the more common designs being more common again.

« Last Edit: 21 September 2024, 17:34:56 by Hellraiser »
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #2 on: 20 September 2024, 19:17:45 »

Dunno their status post-Jihad, but Templar, Templar II, and/or Sunder might be on that list.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #3 on: 20 September 2024, 20:06:59 »
Sorry, I figured that asking this in the Clans forum meant that I didn't need to specify that I was looking for Clan omnis.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #4 on: 20 September 2024, 20:53:44 »

Dolaire threw me as partially Clantech but belonging to a Spheroid faction.

May not count, but Templar, Templar III, and Sunder all have Clantech configs.

FWIW…
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #5 on: 20 September 2024, 20:57:03 »
Yeah, I'm looking specifically for purely Clan omnis*.

*not counting any mixed-tech configurations they might have, like IS Plasma Rifles or Improved Heavy Gauss Rifles.

Seems like in the post-Jihad environment, the 4/6 movement curve became dominated more by second line assaults and pocket assault omnis.
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #6 on: 20 September 2024, 21:19:58 »
That's so strange.  Added mobility was one of the clans' biggest game changers.  You'd think they'd be leaning into 4/6 assaults, and leaving the slowpoke 3/5s (and their added vulnerability to things like artillery) to the spheroids.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #7 on: 20 September 2024, 22:09:50 »
I think it might just have been that the post-Jihad era saw omnis drop in prominence a bit, thanks to the rise of mechs like the Hellstar, Cygnus, and Shrike.  Even khans were piloting second-line machines.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #8 on: 21 September 2024, 02:24:20 »
Dunno their status post-Jihad, but Templar, Templar II, and/or Sunder might be on that list.

the Templar I's factory was destroyed in a nuclear Fireball, the Templar III wouldn't enter production until 3130
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #9 on: 21 September 2024, 06:14:44 »
95-BloodAsp  -  Adders,  then,  Falcons
It is the Ravens, not the Falcons, it is being manufactured at Snow Raven Industrial Complex Alpha (Dante).
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #10 on: 21 September 2024, 11:09:17 »
Quote
95-BloodAsp  -  Adders,  then,  Falcons
It is the Ravens, not the Falcons, it is being manufactured at Snow Raven Industrial Complex Alpha (Dante).

And it weighs 90t, not 95.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #11 on: 21 September 2024, 11:41:36 »
I think it might just have been that the post-Jihad era saw omnis drop in prominence a bit, thanks to the rise of mechs like the Hellstar, Cygnus, and Shrike.  Even khans were piloting second-line machines.
That’s fair.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #12 on: 21 September 2024, 17:33:48 »
It is the Ravens, not the Falcons, it is being manufactured at Snow Raven Industrial Complex Alpha (Dante).

And it weighs 90t, not 95.

Yeah, that line had all sorts of misreading & copy/paste issues.

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Jellico

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #13 on: 21 September 2024, 23:14:23 »
That's so strange.  Added mobility was one of the clans' biggest game changers.  You'd think they'd be leaning into 4/6 assaults, and leaving the slowpoke 3/5s (and their added vulnerability to things like artillery) to the spheroids.

There is only so much you can do. Eg, the Blood Asp is pretty much peak 90 tons. The dated design concepts mean there is a chance for a Warhawk redesign because the Jade Phoenix "wastes" tons on its wings. But would it really be that distinctive from the Warhawk?
You could look at more exotic options like the Jade Phoenix but that leads you into the trap of the Executioner and Kingfisher. Mechs that sacrifice power for effects (mobility and toughness). A 4/6 assault sacrifices too much firepower for toughness and the mobility buffs hurt in tons or BV.




Oh, add Alpha Wolf to the list at 90 tons. Another flawed "effect" Mech.

Gaiiten

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #14 on: 22 September 2024, 05:20:56 »
IMHO the next step will be Omnimechs with Interface Cockpits as standard. This will improve the Mechs further.
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Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #15 on: 22 September 2024, 11:27:28 »
IMHO the next step will be Omnimechs with Interface Cockpits as standard. This will improve the Mechs further.

Interface Cockpits make pilots go psycho, often with friendly fire as bonus

It's manageable problem when your pilot goes crazy in a protomech but if that happens in a Blood Asp or Dire Wolf then you have a massive problem on your hands (plus even in best case scenario the Omnimech in question is a write-off)

Using new materials for internal structure would be a good way forward, endo-composite did wonders for Awesome C

Blood Asp with endo-composites could really be something






Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #16 on: 22 September 2024, 15:20:23 »

There are lots of technology options and combinations that have not been exploited on canon Clan omnimech designs but should be.  Frankly, the recent TROs and RecGuides were far too timid and/or incompetent in this regard.  Only the Falcon partial wing/jump jet designs really exploited that technology combo, and even then, there’s a couple better implementations in the medium weight class than the Hierofalcon.  Some options that need further exploration/exhibition:

— AES:  I don’t recall a canon omni with AES.  IMO, there should a couple with AES in both arms, like Crossbow and Battle Cobra remakes.  Or maybe a Warhawk rethink without the TC.  Or on lights with all the weapons on one arm (and maybe asymmetric armor).  Configs with Artemis V FCS for “pulse” LRMs and “pulse” SRMs.  And LB-X cannons for “pulse” cluster munitions.  Variants with Interface Cockpits could hit -3 (Art V, LB-X Cluster, ER Pulse) and -4 modifiers (Pulse).  AES has been used canonically to help secondline units with poor gunnery skills.  But it could also turn ilClan trueborns into stunningly reliable sharpshooters, too.

— Advanced Spheroid Armors:  Reflective, Ballistic-Reinforced, and Stealth.  I don’t think there’s a Reflective Armor omni yet.  Canon is begging for a light or medium with enough jump jets, improved jump jets, and/or partial wings so that it can hit 7- or 10-hex jumps every turn (think optimized Hierofalcon) and Reflective Armor so that the pulse boats it’s most vulnerable to can’t land effective damage.  (And throw the weapons on one AES arm above, to boot.)  I don’t think there’s a Ballistic-Reinforced omni yet, either.  Canon is begging for a slower Ballistic-Reinforced heavy or assault omni with long-ranged, heavy hitting configs.  The Tomahawk II was boring and inefficient.  Put Ballistic-Reinforced on a Dire Wolf and a Nova Cat/Night Gyr instead.  The Alpha Wolf tried Stealth Armor on an omni, but both the platform and the configs could be substantially better. The modifiers from Stealth with AES and/or Interface Cockpits and -1/-2 weapons would hit a net 4, 5, or 6.  Ferro-Lamellor is nice — the War Crow and Carrion Crow are competent omnis — but the Clans should get some armor variety going to keep the Houses off-balance.

— Reinforced Structure/Armor Combos and Reinforced Structure Lights:  The Mastodon and Rime Otter are competent omnis.  But the ilClan could have some real zombies if Reinforced Structure was combined with specialty armors like Ferro-Lamellor or Ballistic-Reinforced.  Think Kingfisher with an XLE.  Lighter designs probably also get the biggest bang for the buck from Reinforced Structure, maybe with specialty armors.  Think Cougars, Adders, and Kit Foxes that can last as long as mediums, in addition to having a medium’s firepower.

— TSM and Melee:  The Falcons (Jade Hawk) and Bears (Kontio) have dabbled with designs built for melee.  It’s time to build some linebreaking shock omnis that specialize in this — maybe in combination with Reinforced Structure and specialty armors above.  A 5/8 or 6/9 55-tonner with the energy array necessary to activate its TSM so it can decapitate heads/cockpits with a single punch in the primary Wolf configuration.  Throw claws on the A config for the particularly bloodthirsty Jaguar and Bear warriors.  Throw jump jets and talons on the B config so Falcon warriors can reliably kick out enemy legs.  Throw spikes and a supercharger on the C configuration for charging Nova Cats.  For that matter, why aren’t non-omni totems showing up with Claws (TSM Kodiaks and AES Cave Lions), Talons, or Spikes, and TSM?  Depending on the Clan, these things scream totem mech.

Hardened Quads:  The Hammerhead is nice, but it has to pay for its Hardened Armor with AES in the legs.  And the Doom Courser is a solid quad, but it loses out to older bipeds like the Nova Cat and Night Gyr in its category of 4/6 Clan pocket assault omnis.  The two need to be combined — quads with hardened armor — because quads get an automatic -2 PSR modifier that offsets the +1 from Hardened Armor without having to pay for AES or an Interface Cockpit.  They won’t be omnis because Harden Armor can’t.  But they’ll make great garrison mechs for the freeborns, both faster designs that can survive lots of enemy contact and slower ones that squat behind a hill and deliver fire support until the heat death of the universe.  The Great Turtle was a joke, but Clantech changes the mass/volume efficiency enough that these are credible, dangerous designs.

Edge Case Movement and Masses:  With an XXL engine and the right tonnage, a light Clan omni that can hit 20MPs without MASC or superchargers (and with decent armor) can be built that will put the Fire Moth to shame.  Maybe even a Stealth Armor variant for spec ops.  The ilClan inherited samples and maybe factories for the Omega, Poseidon, and Ares.  How about bipedal superheavies with Harjel all over?  The right tonnage with Harjel II can create zombie Dire Wolf.  A 200-tonner with Harjel III could be an awesome big bad at the end of scenario arc.  How about a competent underwater design (maybe totem) for the Foxes or Scorps with UMUs, Harjel, and massed LRTs?

Transformers:  The Eurus is nice and all, but Quadvees are much, much more survivable than combat vehicles.  It makes no sense for Clans in general, and the Hell’s Horses in particular, to be cranking out new tracked and wheeled combat designs when they could be converting their armored cavalry to competent quadvees.  And instead of highly questionable configs and variants of mechs for space combat, the Ravens should be fielding a Clantech LAM or two to escort their forces from jump point to planetside.  Or at least WiGEs from drop to planetside.

I could also wax lyrical on battle armor, but I won’t go there.

Point is, even if Interface Cockpits never become safer and more widespread to restore the Clantech edge in the ilClan Era, there’s still a lot that could be done to make Clan omnis and other forces much more dangerous, survivable, and mobile.  I hope the Clans, and Wolves in particular, are not stuck with mediocre designs like the Amarok and Stormwolf (how did the Wolves become with ilClan with that?) for the rest of the ilClan Era and see some downright powerful omnis emerge over time that would explain Clan victories and expansion in this era.  Key to that will be assigning design work to the most competent designers in the Catalyst stable and not shackling them with suboptimal weights and/or MPs just because those are underrepresented in the canon.  (They’re underrepresented for a reason.)  If the usual approach continues of handing out design work as rewards to writers who may not have much design or play experience, and then further handcuffing them with constraints, then the result will be more of the same.

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« Last Edit: 22 September 2024, 15:23:23 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Kojak

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #17 on: 22 September 2024, 15:43:35 »
There is a reflective-armored Omni, one that's been around for quite a while: the Wendigo.


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Church14

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #18 on: 22 September 2024, 16:43:06 »
There are lots of technology options and combinations that have not been exploited on canon Clan omnimech designs but should be.  Frankly, the recent TROs and RecGuides were far too timid and/or incompetent in this regard.  Only the Falcon partial wing/jump jet designs really exploited that technology combo, and even then, there’s a couple better implementations in the medium weight class than the Hierofalcon.  Some options that need further exploration/exhibition:

— AES:  I don’t recall a canon omni with AES.  IMO, there should a couple with AES in both arms, like Crossbow and Battle Cobra remakes.  Or maybe a Warhawk rethink without the TC.  Or on lights with all the weapons on one arm (and maybe asymmetric armor).  Configs with Artemis V FCS for “pulse” LRMs and “pulse” SRMs.  And LB-X cannons for “pulse” cluster munitions.  Variants with Interface Cockpits could hit -3 (Art V, LB-X Cluster, ER Pulse) and -4 modifiers (Pulse).  AES has been used canonically to help secondline units with poor gunnery skills.  But it could also turn ilClan trueborns into stunningly reliable sharpshooters, too.

— Advanced Spheroid Armors:  Reflective, Ballistic-Reinforced, and Stealth.  I don’t think there’s a Reflective Armor omni yet.  Canon is begging for a light or medium with enough jump jets, improved jump jets, and/or partial wings so that it can hit 7- or 10-hex jumps every turn (think optimized Hierofalcon) and Reflective Armor so that the pulse boats it’s most vulnerable to can’t land effective damage.  (And throw the weapons on one AES arm above, to boot.)  I don’t think there’s a Ballistic-Reinforced omni yet, either.  Canon is begging for a slower Ballistic-Reinforced heavy or assault omni with long-ranged, heavy hitting configs.  The Tomahawk II was boring and inefficient.  Put Ballistic-Reinforced on a Dire Wolf and a Nova Cat/Night Gyr instead.  The Alpha Wolf tried Stealth Armor on an omni, but both the platform and the configs could be substantially better. The modifiers from Stealth with AES and/or Interface Cockpits and -1/-2 weapons would hit a net 4, 5, or 6.  Ferro-Lamellor is nice — the War Crow and Carrion Crow are competent omnis — but the Clans should get some armor variety going to keep the Houses off-balance.

— Reinforced Structure/Armor Combos and Reinforced Structure Lights:  The Mastodon and Rime Otter are competent omnis.  But the ilClan could have some real zombies if Reinforced Structure was combined with specialty armors like Ferro-Lamellor or Ballistic-Reinforced.  Think Kingfisher with an XLE.  Lighter designs probably also get the biggest bang for the buck from Reinforced Structure, maybe with specialty armors.  Think Cougars, Adders, and Kit Foxes that can last as long as mediums, in addition to having a medium’s firepower.

— TSM and Melee:  The Falcons (Jade Hawk) and Bears (Kontio) have dabbled with designs built for melee.  It’s time to build some linebreaking shock omnis that specialize in this — maybe in combination with Reinforced Structure and specialty armors above.  A 5/8 or 6/9 55-tonner with the energy array necessary to activate its TSM so it can decapitate heads/cockpits with a single punch in the primary Wolf configuration.  Throw claws on the A config for the particularly bloodthirsty Jaguar and Bear warriors.  Throw jump jets and talons on the B config so Falcon warriors can reliably kick out enemy legs.  Throw spikes and a supercharger on the C configuration for charging Nova Cats.  For that matter, why aren’t non-omni totems showing up with Claws (TSM Kodiaks and AES Cave Lions), Talons, or Spikes, and TSM?  Depending on the Clan, these things scream totem mech.

Hardened Quads:  The Hammerhead is nice, but it has to pay for its Hardened Armor with AES in the legs.  And the Doom Courser is a solid quad, but it loses out to older bipeds like the Nova Cat and Night Gyr in its category of 4/6 Clan pocket assault omnis.  The two need to be combined — quads with hardened armor — because quads get an automatic -2 PSR modifier that offsets the +1 from Hardened Armor without having to pay for AES or an Interface Cockpit.  They won’t be omnis because Harden Armor can’t.  But they’ll make great garrison mechs for the freeborns, both faster designs that can survive lots of enemy contact and slower ones that squat behind a hill and deliver fire support until the heat death of the universe.  The Great Turtle was a joke, but Clantech changes the mass/volume efficiency enough that these are credible, dangerous designs.

Edge Case Movement and Masses:  With an XXL engine and the right tonnage, a light Clan omni that can hit 20MPs without MASC or superchargers (and with decent armor) can be built that will put the Fire Moth to shame.  Maybe even a Stealth Armor variant for spec ops.  The ilClan inherited samples and maybe factories for the Omega, Poseidon, and Ares.  How about bipedal superheavies with Harjel all over?  The right tonnage with Harjel II can create zombie Dire Wolf.  A 200-tonner with Harjel III could be an awesome big bad at the end of scenario arc.  How about a competent underwater design (maybe totem) for the Foxes or Scorps with UMUs, Harjel, and massed LRTs?

Transformers:  The Eurus is nice and all, but Quadvees are much, much more survivable than combat vehicles.  It makes no sense for Clans in general, and the Hell’s Horses in particular, to be cranking out new tracked and wheeled combat designs when they could be converting their armored cavalry to competent quadvees.  And instead of highly questionable configs and variants of mechs for space combat, the Ravens should be fielding a Clantech LAM or two to escort their forces from jump point to planetside.  Or at least WiGEs from drop to planetside.

I could also wax lyrical on battle armor, but I won’t go there.
Regarding the combos not yet seen-

- Doloire and Sojourner have AES. Though your short list of “mk ii”s that would make sense with AES is sensible.
- We have the Stormwolf now for a reflective armor Omni. Really cool in universe, just a BV calculation nightmare. And a DCMS B-R Omni feels like a weird omission to be missing.
- hardened quads - IS has some, but yeah, clans are lacking. Thunder stallion feels like a winner here to step up
- quadvees seeing no love in ilclan yet is an out of universe issue. During the PR tour Randall said it was a modeling/art issue to make quadvees a thing again. Basically, CGL doesn’t want to do new ones until they feel the new art and models for them are up to the same standard as the mechs.

Point is, even if Interface Cockpits never become safer and more widespread to restore the Clantech edge in the ilClan Era, there’s still a lot that could be done to make Clan omnis and other forces much more dangerous, survivable, and mobile.  I hope the Clans, and Wolves in particular, are not stuck with mediocre designs like the Amarok and Stormwolf (how did the Wolves become with ilClan with that?) for the rest of the ilClan Era and see some downright powerful omnis emerge over time that would explain Clan victories and expansion in this era.  Key to that will be assigning design work to the most competent designers in the Catalyst stable and not shackling them with suboptimal weights and/or MPs just because those are underrepresented in the canon.  (They’re underrepresented for a reason.)  If the usual approach continues of handing out design work as rewards to writers who may not have much design or play experience, and then further handcuffing them with constraints, then the result will be more of the same.

My 2 Kerenskies... FWIW...

The desire for a powerful series of new omnis for the ilclan is reasonable, but CGL also needs to write engaging and believable stories while balancing attention to factions. Wolves already have the lions share of RG attention. Like close to triple that of any other faction. Building new mechs for them feels like playing clear favorites. Especially given the likely Terran situation of having the rebuild the touman on RF designs. And wolves didn’t win Terra because of the merits of their mech design or because of the failures of RF mech designs. They got the win because the plot demanded. The specific hardware isn’t primary, secondary, or tertiary to whether or not they succeed.


There’s also a purely personal objection on my end that relentlessly efficient designs are not interesting. The regent is a horribly unengaging design because it has no features. No fixed crits, max armor, max engine DHS fixed, perfect weight maximum pod space at that walk MP. Except for it being the popemobie, I would have forgotten it existed in days.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #19 on: 22 September 2024, 18:24:59 »
There is a reflective-armored Omni, one that's been around for quite a while: the Wendigo.

- We have the Stormwolf now for a reflective armor Omni. Really cool in universe, just a BV calculation nightmare.

My bad.  But I’d also argue that those designs are poor implementations of Reflective Armor.  Reflec is vulnerable in melee, and most of their configs on those designs could be caught by a Kontio, Hatchetman -5DT, Nightsky -6T, Exhumer -3P, and the like.  Only the Wendigo B has the high jump mobility needed to really stay out of melee trouble, but its weapons are relatively short-ranged, which forces it back into melee danger to be effective.  I’d like to see a more optimized Hierofalcon that can jump 7 or 10 hexes in every config with Reflec.  That would be a killer omni in ways that the Wendigo and Stormwolf never will be.

- Doloire and Sojourner have AES. Though your short list of “mk ii”s that would make sense with AES is sensible.

My bad on the Doloire, although it’s not a Clan faction omni, even if it’s fundamentally Clantech.  I commend it for multiplying the to-hit mods with pulse and Art V on a couple configs.  Why the Clanners are not doing this, I don’t understand.

Sojourner is not an omni but it’s what I had in mind when I remarked that the Clanners are only using AES to bring up the effective skills of their secondline/garrison troops, instead of also turning their frontline omnis and trueborns into deadeye snipers.

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- quadvees seeing no love in ilclan yet is an out of universe issue. During the PR tour Randall said it was a modeling/art issue to make quadvees a thing again. Basically, CGL doesn’t want to do new ones until they feel the new art and models for them are up to the same standard as the mechs.

This drives me nuts that the designs are serving the artwork — this deal with the quadvees, all the suboptimal/bad designs for the sake of WYSIWYG in the RecGuides — instead of the other way around.

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The desire for a powerful series of new omnis for the ilclan is reasonable, but CGL also needs to write engaging and believable stories while balancing attention to factions. Wolves already have the lions share of RG attention. Like close to triple that of any other faction. Building new mechs for them feels like playing clear favorites. Especially given the likely Terran situation of having the rebuild the touman on RF designs. And wolves didn’t win Terra because of the merits of their mech design or because of the failures of RF mech designs. They got the win because the plot demanded. The specific hardware isn’t primary, secondary, or tertiary to whether or not they succeed.

I don’t disagree in the main, but I’d also argue that for the universe to make the most sense, the best designs (however that is defined) should be going to the faction is supposed to be “winning” in that era.  It’s a little jarring/unbelievable that, for example, the Wolves were stuck with the Amarok — a design that doesn’t even understand how Hardened Armor works — while their opponents on Terra were fielding the very competent Jade Phoenix and Doloire designs.  I get that no faction should have too many “I win” buttons, but if any faction should get some or the most, it should be the dominant faction for that war or era.

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There’s also a purely personal objection on my end that relentlessly efficient designs are not interesting. The regent is a horribly unengaging design because it has no features. No fixed crits, max armor, max engine DHS fixed, perfect weight maximum pod space at that walk MP. Except for it being the popemobie, I would have forgotten it existed in days.

The Regent is efficient in available crit slots only.  (And maybe C-Bills.)  It loses out on tonnage, speed, heat sunk, and protection because of its Succession War Era engine, structure, and armor.  I like an assault or two like the Regent and Dire Wolf that test the limits of how much firepower can be crammed onto a design.  But you can outlast them with better armors or outmaneuver them with more efficient engines/structures/weights or even outgun them with Clantech energy weapons and enough freezers or coolant pods.
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #20 on: 22 September 2024, 18:33:02 »
The Sojourner is very much an omni.

And I'd say that AES is not widespread among the Clans because of the ubiquitous nature of the Targeting Computer, which is often a more efficient option since its size is based on the mass of the weapons tied to it rather than the size of the mech and one TC affects all applicable weapons on a mech regardless of their location.
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #21 on: 22 September 2024, 19:10:11 »

The Regent is efficient in available crit slots only.  (And maybe C-Bills.)  It loses out on tonnage, speed, heat sunk, and protection because of its Succession War Era engine, structure, and armor.  I like an assault or two like the Regent and Dire Wolf that test the limits of how much firepower can be crammed onto a design.  But you can outlast them with better armors or outmaneuver them with more efficient engines/structures/weights or even outgun them with Clantech energy weapons and enough freezers or coolant pods.

thing is when it already has so much raw tonnage stuff like endosteel etc is just wasted crits.

although a 100 tonner with say Ferro Lamaller armor would be an intreasting design
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #22 on: 22 September 2024, 20:09:14 »
The point of the Regent is that by use no weight-saving but space-eating equipment in its construction (aside from double heat sinks, which it doesn't carry any external to the engine) the mech has an interior large enough that you could put a space shuttle into it.  The canon configurations don't do much since they're all mimicking existing assault mechs, but it's got amazing potential when it comes to custom configurations.
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #23 on: 22 September 2024, 20:57:44 »
An assault scale AES is 4 crits. Start putting Artemis V on missiles and you are highly limited in numbers. TC is better for lasers and no real advantage for ACs.

A 4/6 XL. 90 tonner has less firepower than a Kingfisher,  which is already undergunned.

Those are two I have spent way too much time looking at.

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #24 on: 22 September 2024, 21:35:23 »
An assault scale AES is 4 crits. Start putting Artemis V on missiles and you are highly limited in numbers. TC is better for lasers and no real advantage for ACs.

A 4/6 XL. 90 tonner has less firepower than a Kingfisher,  which is already undergunned.

Blood Asp disagrees.
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #25 on: 22 September 2024, 21:55:36 »
An assault scale AES is 4 crits. Start putting Artemis V on missiles and you are highly limited in numbers. TC is better for lasers and no real advantage for ACs.
The LRM20/ArtV/AES in the Doloire C is 10 crits. So yeah, you're doing quality over quantity there. The main upside is really just that AES only costs you in the BV of weapons you actually use it with. Mass inefficiencies with clanspec make for better designs in pickup games as BV stays a bit more manageable.

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #26 on: 23 September 2024, 05:23:10 »
Blood Asp disagrees.
Apologies.  I missed the reinforced structure 

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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #27 on: 23 September 2024, 09:29:02 »
Well, hypothetical omnimech builds are a bit of a thread drift anyway.
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #28 on: 23 September 2024, 14:12:02 »
There are lots of technology options and combinations that have not been exploited on canon Clan omnimech designs but should be

I humbly disagree.

In all my years of custom mech design I don't think I've ever put TSM on an Omni.
Why?
It takes up space & doesn't save tonnage.
Which means its basically the LAST thing you want on an OMNI-mech.
Omnimechs need Large amounts of Pod Space & Free Crits.   That is what they are there for.
To be a flexible chassis & allow for multiple weapon loads.
They don't need things that just suck up crits & offer nothing "space/tonnage related back".

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— AES:
— Advanced Spheroid Armors: 
— Reinforced Structure
— TSM and Melee: 
Hardened Quads: 
Edge Case Movement and Masses:  With an XXL engine and the right tonnage
Transformers: 

For the record, I am not bashing in ANY WAY on any of the above tech that you mentioned.
I'm only saying they don't belong on an OMNI-mech (for the most part)

Each of these "specialist" technologies mentioned above would be far better used on a standard Battlemech that is 25% cheaper & built for a single chassis customized load out specialist build.
« Last Edit: 23 September 2024, 14:19:36 by Hellraiser »
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Re: Post-Jihad, what 4/6 assault class omnimechs are in production?
« Reply #29 on: 23 September 2024, 14:18:34 »
There’s also a purely personal objection on my end that relentlessly efficient designs are not interesting. The regent is a horribly unengaging design because it has no features. No fixed crits, max armor, max engine DHS fixed, perfect weight maximum pod space at that walk MP. Except for it being the popemobie, I would have forgotten it existed in days.

The Regent is efficient in available crit slots only.  (And maybe C-Bills.)  It loses out on tonnage, speed, heat sunk, and protection because of its Succession War Era engine, structure, and armor.  I like an assault or two like the Regent and Dire Wolf that test the limits of how much firepower can be crammed onto a design.  But you can outlast them with better armors or outmaneuver them with more efficient engines/structures/weights or even outgun them with Clantech energy weapons and enough freezers or coolant pods.

The Regent is FINE.  (As a platform)
It's based on the Hauptmann, which was already exactly what you want an Assault-Omni to look like.
Assault mechs need firepower to be sure but durability is even more important, which is the 1 failing of the Direwolf, that pesky XL.


thing is when it already has so much raw tonnage stuff like endosteel etc is just wasted crits.

although a 100 tonner with say Ferro Lamaller armor would be an intreasting design

Exactly, and Agreed.


The point of the Regent is that by use no weight-saving but space-eating equipment in its construction (aside from double heat sinks, which it doesn't carry any external to the engine) the mech has an interior large enough that you could put a space shuttle into it. The canon configurations don't do much since they're all mimicking existing assault mechs, but it's got amazing potential when it comes to custom configurations.

Completely agree with the bold part & it's a shame we can't just have all nice configurations for every mech.
It's like TPTB don't want us to have nice toys :(



Aside from the Hauptmann mentioned above, a couple other Omni-Chassis that are at least close to what I consider ideal would be.
A 5/8 NovaCat  (XL/Endo to compensate for being "fast" but no Ferro as well like the T-Wolf has)
A 4/6 Crossbow  (Slower w/o any Weight Tech, basically a "Heavy Regent/Hauptmann")
« Last Edit: 23 September 2024, 14:24:36 by Hellraiser »
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