Force Manual Davion: New Formation Type Discussion

[MarauderD]

Hello All!

Still digesting the contents of Force Manual Davion.  What are your thoughts on the (new) formations when it comes to how they would play out in Alpha Strike?

Light Fire:  Conceptually, I love the Coordinated Fire Support idea because focusing down units in Alpha Strike is definitely core game play.  In practice, it could be a little problematic.  I can see Skill 5 uber units (certain Stormcrows, for example) being taken as the 4th member of a squad and being functionally skill 2 when it comes time for them to shoot.  I'll definitely be experimenting with this whenever I actually get to play.

Rifle:  This one may be too fiddly in AS, or I'm not thinking about it the right way.  Weapon Specialist/Sandblaster don't tickle my fancy enough to bother.

Hunter Lance:  Another one where the concept is fine but the practice is tough.  I find Combat Intuition to be one of those make or break abilities in Alpha Strike.  You could stack a Hunter Lance in a force with a Command Lance and a Support Lance.  6 units with Combat Intution?  Eek.  I guess you could have a table rules limiting the number of units per side with the ability, but that seems like an abusable mechanic. 

I know the Rifle Lance isn't exactly new--but what does everyone think of these new(ish) formations?  Would you use them?  What looks good or looks bad to you and why? 

[Hellraiser]

Light Fire:  Conceptually, I love the Coordinated Fire Support idea because focusing down units in Alpha Strike is definitely core game play.  In practice, it could be a little problematic.  I can see Skill 5 uber units (certain Stormcrows, for example) being taken as the 4th member of a squad and being functionally skill 2 when it comes time for them to shoot.  I'll definitely be experimenting with this whenever I actually get to play.

I don't have it yet but is this supposed to represent the All-Valkyrie units we see in the AFFS?

[MarauderD]

Possibly, but not exactly.  Requirement is for two missile boats in a lance, so two Valks would definitely work.  Instead of how a typical Fire Lance works, this formation gets a building to-hit bonus for every unit that scores a hit that round.

First lance member would get no bonus.  Provided that lance member hits with a weapon, the next member gets a +1 to hit mod on the same target, and it is cumulative.  So if the first three lance mates score some kind of hit, the final lance member would be at +3 to hit mod.  Situationally very strong. 

[Hellraiser]

Certainly a benefit to have 4 mechs all w/ long range guns focusing fire.

V/S

4 different ranged units shooting at whoever is closest.

[Scotty]

Is it a bonus for each attack or is it a bonus for each hit?  If it's the former you're universally benefited and it's one of the strongest bonuses in the game.  If it's the latter, it's still good but you're very unlikely to get the full bonus especially into something already difficult to hit.

[Hellraiser]

Sounds like it's per Hit, almost like zeroing in Artillery, but probably more like, after your shaking up the enemy with some clusters of missile, then they "dodge less" the more that keep pouring in.

[Kastor]

Hunter Lance sounds absolutely horrible to play against.

In our AS campaign we've banned the Combat Intuition SPA altogether. It messes the game sequence way too much. Getting it for free from a formation, for possibly NINE units (with Hunter, Command and Support Level IIs) is absolutely nuts.

[MarauderD]

Is it a bonus for each attack or is it a bonus for each hit?  If it's the former you're universally benefited and it's one of the strongest bonuses in the game.  If it's the latter, it's still good but you're very unlikely to get the full bonus especially into something already difficult to hit.

Fairly certain you only get the bonus if your other formation-mates HIT the target first.  But I'm sure NCKestral will end up confirming or denying that at some point. 

[nckestrel]

It’s per unit.  The unit has to hit with at least one attack, but it doesn’t matter how many past one. 

[Hellraiser]

So it's for having Multiple Light Fire Lances in the fight?

So like a company of Valkyries?
Alpha Lance fires  +0,  at least 1 mech hits.
So then Beta Lance Fires at +1 for All, also hits with at least 1 mech.
So then Charlie Lance Fires at +2 for all mechs?

[nckestrel]

no, not per formation.   the rules use unit as a single playing piece.  I don't mean a lance, but a 'mech.
A 'mech gives its other members in the light fire lance a +1 target number modifier if it hits with at least one weapon on that target, and the other lance members fire at the same target.  It doesn't matter how many weapons the 'mech hits with, it's a +1 from the 'mech if it hits at least once.

[Scotty]

Makes sense to me.  Requiring a hit and not just an attack made in order to get the bonus puts this firmly in the "good but fair" category.  If you want better mods you have options, and in order to get the benefit you have to, by definition, be focusing fire at least a little bit so it's very hard to use this to spread very accurate damage across multiple targets.

[MarauderD]

Makes sense to me.  Requiring a hit and not just an attack made in order to get the bonus puts this firmly in the "good but fair" category.  If you want better mods you have options, and in order to get the benefit you have to, by definition, be focusing fire at least a little bit so it's very hard to use this to spread very accurate damage across multiple targets.

Yeah, seems good and still fair.  Since I started using MAR to resolve attacks, Seems like you'd want to start with a unit with a higher skill to start off your rolling.  Finish with a lower skill unit to 'harvest' the plus 3 mod with good attack numbers.  Something like a Skill 4 30 PV Javelin-11A ends up being equivalent to a skill 1 attacking with 4 attack dice at short range.  Very tasty if you pull it off.  I think the trick is which 2 Missile Boats/Snipers do you use to fit the formation rules, and how much do you improve the Skill to make sure they land at least one hit?

-Valks
-Dervishes
-Whitworths  (I'm always leery of grouping slower mechs in formations, this might only work in early Succession Wars formations)
-Griffins

[Sartris]

Use a garm you cowards

[MarauderD]

Use a garm you cowards

Only if you use a Yeoman.  Garms and Shad 2D2s are the mark of a far better player than I am.  I still need to bring some decent models to have a chance to compete. 

[Hellraiser]

no, not per formation.   the rules use unit as a single playing piece.  I don't mean a lance, but a 'mech.
A 'mech gives its other members in the light fire lance a +1 target number modifier if it hits with at least one weapon on that target, and the other lance members fire at the same target.  It doesn't matter how many weapons the 'mech hits with, it's a +1 from the 'mech if it hits at least once.

Okay, but that still isn't clear if it is stacking as you work your way through the lance.

Do the bonuses stack?

If Mech 1 & 2 both fire & hit, is Mech 3 now firing at a +2 to hit?  And if it hits, is Mech 4 now a +3?

[MarauderD]

Okay, but that still isn't clear if it is stacking as you work your way through the lance.

Do the bonuses stack?

If Mech 1 & 2 both fire & hit, is Mech 3 now firing at a +2 to hit?  And if it hits, is Mech 4 now a +3?

I'm not the authorities, but yes.  That is the mechanic.

[nckestrel]

I'm not the authorities, but yes.  That is the mechanic.

Too late, you answered, you're in charge now.

[Weirdo]

An interesting idea: An Ice Hellion light fire star.

Good way to improve the odds that one combined salvo scores a good amount of damage before a single mech breaks off to finish the target.