Author Topic: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion Part 5 - Comes With Everything You See Here  (Read 153306 times)

Aotrs Commander

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Interesting. Figure this makes making miniatures easier too, later if not right away. And perhaps the 3D model makes making other art easier as well?

I mean, if you will forgive me tooting my own horn for an illustrative moment, if Captain Amateur Hour over here can kludge a passable line drawing out of a 3D model via using a line render -



- I imagine a Proper Artist can do a much better job. (Whereas I commit Art like other people commit crime.)



Is IWM useing sculpters for the ones with 3d models?  Would iniffecent to go that way when you have the printed model

IWM definitely knows how to work with 3D sculpts, but they still need to be printed and cleaned up to make physical mold masters.

This, plus, it's worth noting too, that doing a model for a casting master and doing a model for direct 3D printing are not identical processes. In the former case, you have to do stuff like work out where the parts will be seperated, locatining joints and such. And then you have to get a print in a suitable material; both that will have a suitable finish (or you have to be able to manually polish to said finish) and that will survive whatever process is used to make the mould. Since a lot of standard 3d printing material is, sort of by definition, temperature sensitive, so sticking it in a moulding process that goes, like, to a couple of hundred degrees for injection moulding isn't going to work.

speck

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IWM definitely knows how to work with 3D sculpts, but they still need to be printed and cleaned up to make physical mold masters.

The company that IWM uses to print the masters use a material that after cleaning can be master molded.

General308

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The company that IWM uses to print the masters use a material that after cleaning can be master molded.

Is it a wax print mold then turned to silver?  That was how Reaper use to do it.  Or do different methods exist with 3d printing were it is at now?

speck

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Is it a wax print mold then turned to silver?  That was how Reaper use to do it.  Or do different methods exist with 3d printing were it is at now?

It’s a high temp resin that can then be masted molded in the silicone molds. Pewter master parts are casted from the mold to make the production molds. 

General308

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It’s a high temp resin that can then be masted molded in the silicone molds. Pewter master parts are casted from the mold to make the production molds.

Cool.  The tech has come so far. 

klarg1

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It’s a high temp resin that can then be masted molded in the silicone molds. Pewter master parts are casted from the mold to make the production molds.

Interesting. Thanks for the update.
I take it that the silicone molds have replaced vulcanized rubber?

speck

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Interesting. Thanks for the update.
I take it that the silicone molds have replaced vulcanized rubber?

The mold material changed to silicone years ago for master and production molds. They are still placed in the vulcanizer like the old rubber molds.

MarauderD

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Ordered the ComStar Battle Level II from the CGL store and it got here quickly.  When the KS was running, I passed on these because I'm not a big ComStar/WoB fan.  Then the Rec Guide series used these mechs for the Combine (Mongoose, Katana, Lancelot), Commonwealth (Flashman) and FWL (Guillotine).  So they got me. 

Man, the models look so nice.  Really good job on the art and sculpts on these.  The Crockett, Guillotine, and Lancelot all really grab me.

BrianDavion

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Ordered the ComStar Battle Level II from the CGL store and it got here quickly.  When the KS was running, I passed on these because I'm not a big ComStar/WoB fan.  Then the Rec Guide series used these mechs for the Combine (Mongoose, Katana, Lancelot), Commonwealth (Flashman) and FWL (Guillotine).  So they got me. 

Man, the models look so nice.  Really good job on the art and sculpts on these.  The Crockett, Guillotine, and Lancelot all really grab me.

those mechs ahve been sued outside of comstar pretty much since they where introduced
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JadeHellbringer

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Ordered the ComStar Battle Level II from the CGL store and it got here quickly.  When the KS was running, I passed on these because I'm not a big ComStar/WoB fan.  Then the Rec Guide series used these mechs for the Combine (Mongoose, Katana, Lancelot), Commonwealth (Flashman) and FWL (Guillotine).  So they got me. 

Man, the models look so nice.  Really good job on the art and sculpts on these.  The Crockett, Guillotine, and Lancelot all really grab me.

Don't miss the other set! The Black Knight is beautiful, and that King Crab is just beyond words.
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Weirdo

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The Black Knight and King Crab almost justify the entire Kickstarter just by themselves, they're THAT much better than before.
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MyndkryM

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Ordered the ComStar Battle Level II from the CGL store and it got here quickly.  When the KS was running, I passed on these because I'm not a big ComStar/WoB fan.  Then the Rec Guide series used these mechs for the Combine (Mongoose, Katana, Lancelot), Commonwealth (Flashman) and FWL (Guillotine).  So they got me. 

Man, the models look so nice.  Really good job on the art and sculpts on these.  The Crockett, Guillotine, and Lancelot all really grab me.

When mine arrive, the Flashman and Mongoose go to the top of the paint list and get to fill out my Pursuit Lance of my 4th Striker Bn.  ;D
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Starfury

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The Comstar Level IIs are excellent buys, and you could easily build a unit around them for almost any era (3025 is iffy) and have them be effective.

Mendrugo

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The Comstar Level IIs are excellent buys, and you could easily build a unit around them for almost any era (3025 is iffy) and have them be effective.

There are downgraded versions for the Succession Wars.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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And pristine or mostly-pristine Star League era mechs occasionally showed up when intrepid warriors got lucky and found an untouched equipment cache.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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SteelRaven

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I honestly like the downgrade Flashman more than the SLDF XL XL model, it's quite a tank.
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*bad post, please delete
« Last Edit: 27 March 2022, 11:11:19 by SteelRaven »
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MarauderD

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The Black Knight and King Crab almost justify the entire Kickstarter just by themselves, they're THAT much better than before.

I’m painting up that Black Knight in Davion Guards colors because it can proxy so nicely for the 5H.

Jal Phoenix

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I want Scotty's reviews back.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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There were what, three more to go?  I wanted to see them return as well, but given that Scotty said they were way too busy with work in their last post I didn't want to pester them.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

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MarauderD

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I want Scotty's reviews back.
Me too.  Last I heard he was working through a rough patch at work.  We’ve all been there.  Hopefully when things slow down we’ll get to see his last 4-5 volumes.

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And if he completely burnt himself out doing the ones we already got and has no desire to do any more, I'll respect that decision too.
I have spoken.


Scotty

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I want Scotty's reviews back.
There were what, three more to go?  I wanted to see them return as well, but given that Scotty said they were way too busy with work in their last post I didn't want to pester them.
Me too.  Last I heard he was working through a rough patch at work.  We’ve all been there.  Hopefully when things slow down we’ll get to see his last 4-5 volumes.

The people have spoken.

Recognition Guide: IlClan Volume 20

Hellion T: I do not have a strong opinion about Hellions in general.  I've never fielded one, and I think I had a metal miniature of one for a bit but it sat on a shelf for a long time and I don't even know where it is right now.  My first experience with Hellions in the Rec Guides is... underwhelming.  The very first thing I see is fixed MASC, and while it mercifully doesn't hit a TMM bad break, it has me instantly comparing its 7/11[14] to the Black Lanner, which is a comparison that it will not win.  The armor is maximum, but on a 'Mech only 30 tons that's a statement with not a whole lot of weight behind it.  It's allocated very intelligently, I will say, with at least 10 points front in every location and 15 points in the Center Torso to prevent the worst one-hit wonders.  Weapons are reasonably powerful, three Medium Pulse Lasers backed up by an ER Small Laser and an LRM 10 with a ton of ammo, plus the unusual choice of three i-OS Streak SRM 2s.  Look, I get it.  The art on this 'Mech blows for trying to stay accurate with the guns, but this choice is not inspiring.  It's better as a 'Mech than it would be for sacrificing gun tonnage in the mediums to make these full-fledged launchers, but... c'mon.  Ten doubles handles the heat well enough for a running +2 if you're not bothering with the Streaks.  You can unexpectedly spike into +8 if you're holding down your triggers and they all lock at the worst time, but if that happens you're starting very strongly on the way into a PSR so it's not the worst thing.  Ability to force PSRs is something that the Hellion T particularly lacks, though, with those triple MPLs.  BV at 1637 is... high, for what I'm looking at and having a lot of trouble not equating to a Black Lanner C with the secondary guns gutted and less durability.  Blame the Black Lanner C for being one of the best things in the game, but come back when you're grown up, kid.  B-

Hellion D: I assume that this is the config created to make me pay attention after reviewing the T (shhhh, I know this one came first).  An ER Large Laser, two Heavy Medium Lasers, and an LRM 15 with two tons of ammo.  This is certainly going to make someone know they've been touched.  At long range you have the ER Large and the LRM 15, which combine for net -1 heat while running, meaning that skirmishing and fishing for a lucky PSR is something you can do before getting stuck in.  At close range, the ER Large swaps out for the paired Heavy Mediums as soon as they get to a place where their unassisted accuracy isn't more of a miss than not.  If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably within 3 hexes, and your numbers with them are on 9s or better.  At any point on the bell curve past that, I think the ER Large gets you more and with more flexibility.  If using the short range bracket like that, you get +1 at a run, which is sustainable for some time.  Once (if) the LRM ammo runs out, then you're looking at one ER Large and both Heavy Mediums for +1, or you're looking at both Heavy Mediums to cool down at -4.  Definitely a config that expects to burn bright and burn out faster than that.  BV at 1761 is still high for this, but it performs well as a hole-puncher when you need one and I like it better than the T.  B

Hellion E: My kingdom for a ****** Targeting Computer.  This config is all short range all the time, and even there it's going to have accuracy issues thanks to more standard Heavy Medium Lasers (two of them), an SRM 4, two AP Gauss, and a pile of four Flamers.  Sight unseen I assume that this config was designed by someone who hates Clan Hells Horses.  The mobility has also 'improved' to 7/11[14]/5, which to my opinion just takes the BV and makes it worse for that little jump capability on something this fast.  A Jenner this is not.  Also present is an ECM Suite.  This config mounts only 10 doubles, which makes the firing patterns on this config a headache, in the sense that I'm getting a headache wondering why all these Flamers are here.  The Heavy Mediums, AP Gauss, and SRM 4 can all be fired together for a net +1 heat at a run, or +4 at a jump.  That's about the last time that anything makes sense, because as soon as you get to close range you just... uh, keep doing that, and pretend the Flamers aren't there.  If you absolutely , positively feel the need to heat someone up, take Infernos in the SRM.  I guess adding one Flamer to go to +4 on a run isn't horrible to do, once, but adding any more than that for any reason is just a bad time waiting to happen.  Not even the much-lower BV of 1292 makes me want to take this thing unless I know my opponent really loves Hidden Unit rules and conventional infantry.  At that point I'd probably rather just play someone else.  Who hurt you, designer of the Hellion E? D

Hellion F: Pretend I bothered to find a gif of Kronk saying "Oh yeah, it's all coming together".  Here we have an ER Large Laser, ER Medium Laser, pair of AP Gauss, an SRM 6, and an ECM Suite.  There's also an ER Flamer here but I'm much happier to ignore that than I am trying to ignore the standard Flamers on the E.  Here we have a package that's fast (back down to 7/11[14]), puts together a token long range response in the form of the ER Large, has an excellent short range package, and can put it together in a lot of good combinations to manage heat.  Useful combinations of weapons, off the top of my head: all guns except the ER Flamer and one AP Gauss for +4 at a run, all guns except the ER Large for -3 at a run, all guns except the ER FLamer and SRM 6 for +1 at a run.  With the AP Gauss offering exactly one heat a time the ability to fine-tune the heat scale is very useful.  There's also an Active Probe here, which comes up sometimes but not often.  BV is higher at 1594, but I think that this is closer to the complete package than any config prior, and I respect it.  B+

Hellion P: I can hear the cackling of the mad genius who built this from here.  Because 7/11[14] wasn't fast enough, this config goes 7/11[18] with help from a Supercharger.  The armament starts off strong with three Improved Heavy Medium Lasers, and praise be to the scientist who figured out Improved means better for this config.  That by itself will generate +1 at a run against 11 doubles, but that by itself is a lot of damage and doesn't suffer from any accuracy concerns.  Where the 'mad' genius switch flips on is when you actually close to short range.  Inside three hexes, you suddenly have the ability to pull the trigger on eight Micro Pulse Lasers and four ER Micro Lasers.  This generates a total of 12 heat, and you can add an iHML to it at a run for a net -1 heat running, or add a second iHML for net +6.  If you managed to get into someone's rear arc with a normal run, tape the triggers down for +13, narrowly avoid the shutdown check, and then hit both sets of speed boosts to make your escape and still manage 13 hexes and a +4.  There's also a TAG here that I'm not ignoring on purpose, promise, and an ECM Suite to be a pain to your opponent's electronics.  That honestly almost feels like an incidental benefit here, or something shoved in because an extra ton's worth of guns would make the escape less certain when you punch it thanks to a shutdown roll.  At 1685 the BV is the highest of any Hellion config I think is genuinely worth taking, and this one manages because it can put out frankly absurd amounts of damage anywhere on the board.  If holding down the trigger for all guns, you're looking at 62 points of damage coming out of a 30 ton 'Mech that can run wherever it feels like.  A

Shadow Hawk IIC: I love Shadow Hawks.  This is a pretender.  First, it drops to 45 tons, then it moves 6/9/6, then it eschews the big torso gun in favor of a collection of smaller guns.  This isn't a Shadow Hawk, it's a Phoenix Hawk.  Standard engine combined with armor that is good but not perfect, leaving a couple points off of each location that isn't the Head.  Armament is a pair of Medium Pulse Lasers, an ER Medium Laser, an ER Small Laser, and four Streak SRM 2s.  With the Clans having learned absolutely nothing about how Streaks work in decades of engineering, there are two tons of ammo here for 25 shots per launcher.  Heat is sinked by 10 doubles, and at least the engineers learned how Streaks affect that.  Firing all energy guns is 15 heat, movement heat can take that from anywhere between 16 and 21 but most likely 17 and 21 for a net -3 or +1.  Streaks add two heat per lock, meaning at a run that all four of them locking will trigger a movement penalty that the Shadow Hawk IIC can honestly afford to take with the 6 jump to fall back on, and will go to +9 if you were already jumping.  At that point, though, you've scored a lot more streak hits than you were expecting, and you can jump away to cool off for a bit.  Forcing a PSR is not difficult here, though the lack of long range effectiveness on most guns tempers that.  Ideal range is about 10 hexes, at which point you're running very cool but hitting on good numbers for your three strong energy guns, and any streaks locking are pure upside.  On the opposite of upside, the BV here is very high for what is effectively three moderately mobile Clan medium lasers with on-again-off-again critseeking at 1732.  It's not unusable, but it falls distinctly behind some of its peers.  Contrast directly with the Hellion D, E, or P above.  The definition of a solid second line unit that isn't flashy.  C+

Shadow Hawk IIC 2: In which I discover the annoying trend in this volume of having variants/configs follow up the 'feature' version by being completely and utterly different in every meaningful way.  The Medium Pulse Lasers from the Standard are downgraded to Small Pulse Lasers, the ER Medium Laser switches to become a third Small Pulse Laser, the ER Small Laser stays in place, and the Streaks are all removed in order to fit two ER Large Lasers.  This takes the entire purpose of the 'Mech and flips it totally on its head, from an exclusively short-mid range skirmisher to a long range sniper that even more strongly resembles some flavor of Phoenix Hawk.  Heat management is less elegant, though.  There are still 10 doubles here, so firing both ER Larges at a run takes you to +6 and at a jump takes you to +10.  Not ideal, but doable at range where you can simply not fire one the next turn and be at -6 or -2 to sink.  You have to get very up close to change that, at which point you drop one ER Large and sub in all secondary guns for +2 on a run, which is sustainable and not terrible for a 6/9/6 'Mech.  BV jumps a tiny bit to 1763.  It struggles to force a PSR regardless of range, requiring connecting hits on every weapon you fire unless you're toggling off the switch where you try to play the game intelligently and instead you fire both ER Larges at short range to go up to +14 heat at least.  That will at least make it more likely to trigger a PSR, but to do so you have to be so close to an enemy that the risk/reward is expressed in the form of a large angry red exclamation point.  Risk: you shut down and die because you're three hexes, at most, away from a very angry something you tried to backstab unsuccessfully.  Reward: you might force a PSR, maybe, if all but one of your guns hits.  Pass.  Utility as a sniping skirmisher and harasser can't be ignored though, so this one gets a similar grade to the Standard.  They can both be useful, I just don't really want to use them.  C

Shadow Hawk IIC 10: I've been handed a piece of paper that just says "I'm back".  The energy weapons are the very similar to the ones on the Standard, with two Medium Pulse Lasers, an ER Small Laser, and a Small Pulse Laser, but an XL Engine has been added in order to fit an Ultra AC/10 in the left torso with three tons of ammo.  Hello, yes, where do I sign?  A running alpha is heat neutral, jumping is +4.  BV at 1760 is directly comparable to both previous variants and if you think I'm not taking this one over both of them every single time you haven't been reading this space for very long.  B+

Shadow Hawk IIC 11: I see my request for a Targeting Computer was heard, albeit a bit later than I wanted.  Two Improved Heavy Medium Lasers, an ER Medium Laser, and an ER Small Laser hooked to the Targeting Computer, and then four SRM 2s with two tons of ammo.  This hits like a truck, and the two tons of SRM ammo at least kind of makes sense so you can split it with Infernos, but the heat situation has not improved.  It's still 10 doubles, and just the assorted medium lasers alone will take you to +1 running and +5 jumping.  Adding SRMs for 2 heat at a time is genuinely never a good idea, ever, since they share ranges with the iHMLs and the iHMLs are more accurate and do much better damage.  If your target is a collection of myomer fibers barely holding together, by all means drop one iHML for the SRM quartet but this strikes me as a poor trade-off in most circumstances that - if all of them hit - will net you an average of ~11 damage instead of 10.  This would, all together by itself, be a tough choice between this variant and the standard with a BV of 1692.  But wait, there's more!  Not only are there three extra points of armor on this variant, but it's been switched to Ferro-Lamellor, making this by far the best Shadow Hawk IIC that you can take, period.  A-

Longbow LGB-0H: I wish that the record sheet order in this book was a bit different, because seeing this one first is amusing but wow is it not my kind of 'Mech.  We start with a 4/6 standard engine 85 tonner with good-not-great armor, and a certain expectation for Longbows to have some combination of long range missiles.  Well, we have on this unique specimen a combination of long range and missiles, in the form of two PPCs, and twenty six Rocket Launcher 10s.  There are 11 doubles mounted, which makes the two PPCs at a run heat neutral at least.  You can fire six RL 10s at a time for -2 heat, or seven for +1 heat, which if you mix it up a bit gives you four turns of ammo endurance at that rate.  It's... not particularly likely that many of them hit, given the awkward range bands of 5/11/18 and the inherent +1 to hit.  Once those are gone, or more likely while the rockets are on bad numbers, the Longbow 0H is not very impressive.  Two PPCs and the heatsinks to use them is a credible primary threat when your opponents are all Introductory tech, but this isn't, and your opponents likely won't strongly respect what is for all intents and purposes a Marauder 3R with even more awkward secondary weapons.  I do not respect rocket launchers, and at 1813 BV I do not respect this 'Mech.  D

Longbow LGB-0W2: Ah, there it is, the "this is completely different" variant for the Longbow is actually the expected one for this volume.  This one is Introductory, and while I like it better than the 0H, I still don't like it.  The armor is pitiful for an assault 'Mech.  Two LRM 20s and two LRM 5s when you have 13 single heat sinks is asking for trouble.  the LRM 5 ammo is in the center torso for reasons unclear.  Four tons of LRM 20 ammo is enough, but at this point just take an Archer 2R for under a hundred points more than the 1410 you pay for this.  At least then you'll have meaningful backup weapons, similar heat and ammo, the same effective long range throw weight without overheating, and better armor.  D+

Longbow LGB-8C: This is a much better take on the Longbow mission.  The speed drops to 3/5, but in doing so it gains back enough tonnage to put on (ironically, considering my last sentence just a minute ago) backup weapons effectively identical to an Archer 2R's, adds seven heat sinks to get to 20 singles, which allows firing all missiles at a run at -2.  Arguably this makes it oversinked, but it means you can also fire the forward Medium Lasers to get to +4.  The armor is back to the 0H, which is almost but not quite double the 0W2's.  This is a much better example of mobile fire support.  The BV climbs to 1653, but it is at this point worth it for the armor and heat efficiency alone.  C

Longbow LGB-10C: Where the 8C is a simple but effective example of mobile fire support, the 10C is a simple and effective example of what Lostech can do to an Introductory design when you use it (mostly) intelligently.  All weapons remain in place, but the LRMs gain Artemis IV (including the 5s, which is why I said 'mostly' a second ago) and the Medium Lasers become ER Medium Lasers instead.  An extra ton of LRM 5 ammo is added (ehhhh) but both of them are now in the side torsos (hooray!).  CASE protects the 'Mech from being destroyed if one ton goes off, as it's still a Standard Engine.  Neither Endo Steel nor Ferro-Fibrous were used in the creation of this 'Mech, and instead all tonnage necessary was saved on heat sinks with the switch to 14 doubles instead of 20 singles.  Firing the forward lasers still generates +4 heat at a run, but the overall punch of the 'Mech is up significantly across the board, going from an average of 30 missiles if all launchers hit to an average of 40 missiles if all launchers hit.  Impressive.  The BV commensurately goes up too to 1898, but it feels worth it for the improvement in capability.  B-

Longbow LGB-10K: This thing is funny.  Instead of missiles, we have two Ultra AC/20s, one in each arm.  A total of six tons of ammo for both, four of them in the side torsos protected by CASE, one in each leg.  The ones in each leg are a potential problem, but with paired Ultra AC/20s, closing to kicking range of this 'Mech is suicide for almost anything.  Especially since the UAC/20s are in arms that can flip for that extra little bit of deterrent.  There's also an IS ER Large Laser in the center torso and a Medium Pulse Laser in the head, to keep you going if the arms are removed.  Not if the torsos are removed, though, because in order to fit those gargantuan ballistics required going to an XL Engine.  That's a big drop in durability, and the range can be a problem here with the speed still being 3/5.  Best used in built-up terrain, or where you know your opponent is going to have to come to a specific point.  If you have to use this in a mobile battle it's going to get shot to pieces before it gets to effective range.  There's also a minor heat problem with the 14 doubles on board, since just double tapping with both UACs will get you to +6 at a run.  Slowing down with this 'Mech is not recommended.  The idea is funny, its potential as a hidden unit is hilarious, but its price tag of 1791 makes that a tall order and there are obvious shortcomings here that prevent this from being a general use pick.  This is saved from being a D by the fact that the one job it does it does lethally well.  C-

Longbow LGB-14Q: The missile based Longbows are steadily growing closer to my favorite variant, but we're not quite there yet.  This one mounts paired LRM 20s (no Artemis) with four tons of ammo, the 2x2 forward/rear ER Medium Lasers of the 10C, and a pair of MML 5s with two tons of ammo.  I don't normally like mixing different launcher types on the same 'Mech that fill the same role, but here it seems to work because it gives this Longbow a capability it previously has lacked - significant short range critseeking.  Suddenly this 'Mech is actually dangerous up close, rather than merely packing enough to discourage a small armored car.  Heat sinks are down to 12 doubles which still do well enough here.  The two LRM 20s and MML 5s at range generate net -2 heat, while up close one LRM 20 can be dropped for both ER Mediums forward, plus both MMLs and one LRM 20 if the numbers are good enough to bother.  That is heat neutral at a run.  I wish the LRMs and MMLs would switch places in the arms/torsos, because while the arms can flip it's with the LRM 20s and not the much better against backstabbers MMLs.  Ah well.  Armor is the good version, and this variant mounts an XL Engine and goes 4/6, a compromise that I'm generally in favor of accepting.  CASE II protecting all the ammo in the torsos makes this less of a risky decision.  The BV is actually lower than the 10C at 1828, and the role it fills is one that's different and adjacent and not a direct competition.  I can see using both or either depending on the game.  B-

Longbow LGB-14V: Right out of the gate I don't like this.  MRMs are rough weapons to use both for their range brackets of 3/8/15 and the normal +1 to hit they come with.  The +1 to hit here is negated by Apollo, but that imposes a cluster penalty instead.  The 20 table is where you want to be if you're going to be taking a cluster penalty anyway, but it's a big hit to cut your odds of rolling all 20 missiles by two thirds.  There are a total of four tons of MRM 20 ammo, for 24 shots per launcher, which is hilariously too high.  There's also a pair of LRM 5s returning from previous variants that have two tons of ammo for another 24 shots per launcher.  On LRMs it's less bad but it's still too much.  The MRMs can flip, though, which makes this the second most dangerous Longbow to try to sneak up on.  Remaining weapons are two Light PPCs forward and two ER Mediums backward.  This is the appropriate amount of Light PPCs.  Fourteen doubles is enough for the MRMs and Light PPCs forward at a run heat neutral.  Adding the LRM 5s takes you to +2 or +4, and can be useful if you get a good shot with them but otherwise I'd probably save the heat.  Ammo is protected by CASE II again.  This still has the XL going 4/6 and good armor, which makes this arguably better than the 10K in terms of being an effective combatant in multiple circumstances, but it's still going to be at the mercy of your opponent's force.  Anything that can dictate range can stay generally out of the MRM's effective range by staying at 9 hexes, and at that distance there's a lot of things that can hurt you very badly.  At 1763 BV it's better than some Longbows, but I'd rather have the LRMs.  C-

Warhawk (Masakari) T: One thing I like about the Recognition Guides is that there are some designs that demonstrate genuine innovation in pursuit of a goal.  The Warhawk T is an excellent example of that.  Most of the 6 ton guns in the Clan arsenal have gone on the Warhawk in some combination on an existing configuration, which left very little space for the T to innovate with Clan guns.  The solutions was to use non-Clan guns.  Two guns are Clan ER PPCs, of course, but the other two are Inner Sphere Plasma Rifles, notable for their inclusion here because they do something that Clan guns genuinely don't - damage and heat to the same target.  The traditional Targeting Computer is here, as is a Rocket Launcher 10 to save tonnage from the LRM 10 you weren't using anyway.  This results in enough space for three tons of Plasma Rifle ammo and 20 double heat sinks.  With the leaner guns, this lets the Warhawk fire both ER PPCs and one Plasma Rifle at a run for +2, or one ER PPC and both Plasma Rifles at a run for -3.  While firing all four guns is generally unwise, on good numbers you can go wild for a +12 heat, which is higher than I'd want to go but is still "safe" without having to take shut down rolls.  The BV is high for most things but is only middling for a Warhawk at 2938, clocking in under the Prime and C among classic configs.  Overall it's something I'm not likely to use but it has uses and is built as intelligently as the traditional Warhawk construction allows.  B+

Warhawk (Masakari) F: There are... issues at play here.  Two ER PPCs is a good place to start, but then we add an LRM 20 with two tons of ammo (...fine, I guess) and an Ultra AC/2 with a ton of ammo (gross) on top of the existing LRM 10 (pick a size, damn it).  The UAC/2 is inexplicably mounted in the right torso, but the ammo is in the right arm, meaning you lose its (meager) output by losing the arm the same as if it was there in the first place, but with restricted firing arcs.  The LRM 10 and ammo are both in the center torso, which represents a catastrophic possibility of failure.  If the UAC had instead been in the arm, there would be room in the right torso for the LRM 10 ammo, too, which is a domino effect of bad decisions that results in a genuinely lethal vulnerability that never had to be there.  Heat is the one thing this config does well, with +4 heat on a running alpha,  +2 if you leave off the UAC, and -2 if you're firing only the three big guns.  Ammo is a bigger concern than heat in most cases.  This config is an excellent example of how things Could Be Better even without considering replacing the UAC with something else entirely and I'm failing to not hold that against it.  It's cheaper than the T at 2775, and it deserves to be because it's worse.  C-

Warhawk (Masakari) G: The G is a funny config, in the sense that it's very not what you expect out of a Warhawk.  There are two large lasers and a big ballistic gun, but instead of being sniping implements they're a pair of Improved Heavy Large Lasers and an LB-20X.  The Targeting Computer is of course still here, and those guns are backed up by a Streak SRM 6.  There's three tons of LBX ammo and one ton of streak, which is the correct amounts of both.  It also has a Supercharger to go 4/6[8], experiencing blistering new frontiers in TMM and getting to face-wrecking range faster.  Firing all three big guns at a run is +4 heat, and if the Streak locks it's +8.  Generally if you have the ability to put all guns on target at good numbers, or if the Streak numbers are awful but the others are good, you take that risk.  Otherwise just leave it off and keep the speed up for next turn looking for that golden opportunity.  Identify which ammo type you're going to use most, and make that the one you put in the Center Torso, because there is that one major flaw that's preventing an otherwise excellent 'Mech from reaching full maturity.  There's nowhere else to put it, so I understand, but it's still something to be aware of.  All of the guns are also flippable, in case your opponent decides to get cheeky and you want to eviscerate them for it.  BV is lower than the T at 2909 and this is honestly one of my favorite Warhawks to contemplate.  B

Warhawk (Masakari) I: Over/under ER PPCs and ER Large Lasers, supported by an SRM 6 and an LRM 5 each with one ton of ammo.  Honestly I'd just rather not have the LRM 5 at all, and there's definitely crits left for two more heat sinks.  Twenty four doubles sink 48 heat, which means that firing all the energy guns still generates +8 at a run.  Those two doubles would have been excellent here and I mourn their loss.  The SRM 6 is fine, I guess, and works as a credible critseeker past the big guns.  Firing both ER PPCs and one ER Large, or vice-versa, as the numbers look is the preferred way to operate.  Add the LRM 5 to taste, it's definitely not going to mess up your heat and will get you to -2 heat running with the high-heat option of double PPCs plus laser.  Adding the SRM 6 when it gets in range will put you back to +2, or true neutral with the LRM not firing.  There are definitely ways to handle the heat here, but functionally not being able to force the issue with all four guns reliably is a downside when you're leaving heat on the table at range.  In that sense, it's arguably oversinked for the intended firing patterns.  The BV is over 3K for the first config in the book (3026) and while it's definitely a good one I find myself preferring the T for being able to take advantage of the four gun spread a little bit better.  This one is by far more accurate, though.  B

Warhawk (Masakari) L: This 'Mech Is Too Expensive.  I'm workshopping the title of my autobiography, and that seems like a phrase that describes the Warhawk L very much.  The Supercharger returns for 4/6[8] and explains a lot of where the price came from.  The rest of it comes from the Capacitors added to the two ER PPCs with Targeting Computer.  We also have a Watchdog CEWS for all your electronic warfare needs, and an ATM 12 to remind people you really don't like being touched.  Three tons of ammo is probably enough but I would eschew the ER in this case for heat concerns.  It's just not enough damage to be competing with cap'd ER PPCs on turns where they're firing.  There are also two ER Flamers, which I assume exist because the Warhawk pilot wanted to be able to feel like they were still contributing when the capacitors are charging.  All guns are in the arms, which are still flippable, which is a good move.  The base 20 doubles are back again, and handle the heat load well enough.  On the turn you're firing cap'd ER PPCs, you're up to +2 on a run.  On the off-turn, you might get all the way up to net -12 if you're feeling cheeky and firing the ER Flamers into a hillside.  Then we get to the reason I hate this config, and it's because it's doing its best Executioner impression at 3687 BV.  The audacity.  Get out.  F
« Last Edit: 28 March 2022, 22:10:48 by Scotty »
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Mastodon Prime: And now the reason you've all been reading this volume.  The Mastodon is competing for a very special crown as one of the best Assault 'Mechs ever conceived.  I am normally down on 'Mechs that move 3/5, but here we have a 95 tonner with an XL.  That's normally a downside, and one that I'm quick to point out, but the prime advantage of the Mastodon is its unusual construction.  Reinforced Structure makes it take that much more damage to put down, and it suffers significantly fewer crits per hit as it does.  This makes the XL much less of a vulnerability.  For some durability comparison, it takes 80 points of damage to remove a leg from a Mastodon, and a whopping 110 to core the center torso.  It's going to be here for a long, long time.  What does it do with that time?  Two ER PPCs and two Streak LRM 20s.  Now, I normally don't like Streaks for their relative lack of efficiency.  Here it works.  The reason it works is that we have 19 double heat sinks, and if all guns fire we're looking at +6 at a run.  However, the guns are frequently not going to fire, and we're back down to a cool heat neutral if one hits, and -6 if both.  Gauge your numbers based on your opponent's ability to avoid your fire, and you can either avoid heat penalties outright, or make your opponent know they've been touched.  Every time you hit with a Streak LRM 20 forces a PSR on anything that doesn't have Hardened, so this is an excellent opportunity to spread the love.  Fire your Streak LRM 20s at different targets, and you both likely ensure your heat doesn't slow you down, or if you did you're handing out PSRs like candy.  The range bands also match up nicely with the ER PPCs if you're targeting single enemies.  Each launcher has 12 shots, which is probably more than they need.  All ammo is protected by CASE II.  In conclusion, this is a blunt and effective instrument with deceptively effective heat management, surrounded by a very tough shell that makes it more durable than it looks - and it looks very durable.  I am normally aghast at spending more than 3K BV for a single unit.  The Mastodon Prime tips the scales at 3109, and at that price point is still one of the best available.  S

Mastodon A: Three Large Pulse Lasers, a Gauss Rifle with two tons of ammo, and an LRM 15 with Artemis IV and two tons of ammo.  The LRM ammo is protected by CASEII , the Gauss Rifle arm doesn't bother because you might not even lose the arm if it goes up but you won't exactly need it after that either.  Running alpha is +4, which is the sweet spot since you can just not fire the LRM and be down to -1.  Ruinously accurate, the only downside to this config is that the left arm has a lower arm actuator and prevents flipping.  That is the only thing standing between this and a perfect grade at 2856 BV.  As is, it's merely semi-perfect.  S-

Mastodon B: This is the first config that isn't going to get an S, and it's entirely based on its relative inability to fight at range.  This 'Mech is a bona fide behemoth, but it is still 3/5, and having a payload that is primarily focused at 12 hexes introduces some unavoidable weaknesses to your game.  The long range firepower is a Streak LRM 20, which is about as good as you can reasonably bring since it will still reliably force PSRs at range.  The rest of the guns are an LB-20X, two Streak SRM 4s, and four Medium Pulse Lasers.  I love the Medium Pulse Lasers, but if the LB-20X and Streak SRM 4 were instead something longer range - say, a HAG of some stripe, this would be even better.  Once you do get in range, firing all guns and running is a net +2, thanks to 15 doubles.  Normally I'm all over the lower BV versions of good 'Mechs, but even at 2793, I think that the range is enough of a shortcoming that it can't be called S-tier.  Still good though.  A

Mastodon C: This 'Mech has a gimmick, and it goes just slightly too hard on it.  We have an ER PPC and a Gauss Rifle with two tons of ammo for the long range options.  Love it, good start.  We have four ER Medium Lasers for the in-close fighting.  Love it, solid battery of secondary guns.  Then we have three Plasma Cannons with three tons of ammo.  There's also an Active Probe here, too.  The Plasma Cannons are the gimmick, and the design itself is well aware of how much of a gimmick it is.  The ER PPC, Gauss, and ER Mediums combine to exactly heat neutral at a run thanks to 19 doubles.  Instead of the ER Mediums, the three Plasma Cannons can be fired for a net +1 on a run.  This is arguably only effective against conventional forces, where each one averages 10.5 damage in five point clusters.  That's not enough of an improvement over the raw efficiency of Clan ER Medium Lasers for me to want to go this hard into it.  One would be great, two is pushing it, three is too many.  We're back to having a very expensive toolbox on an already expensive 'Mech.  The BV of 3092 is too high, especially since this same 'Mech with zero Plasma and a gaping, cavernous hole in the right torso is 2681 and I would slam the "BUY" button on that one until I ran out of money.  C+

Mastodon D: While looking at the record sheet I was sorely tempted to make a Dark Knight Rises joke about it because it feels very similar to a Bane 3.  Four LRM 15s and two LRM 20s, with a total of 64 and 24 shots respectively (16 per launcher for the LRM 15s and 12 per launcher for the LRM 20s).  Additionally, it has two Medium Pulse Lasers.  Fifteen doubles struggle with heat.  Standing still and firing all LRMs is +2, running is +4.  This is the kind of 'Mech that is likely going to not be moving tooooo much once it gets into position, so that's not as much of a downside as it could be.  Engaging the MPLs means you're either out of ammo, or it's something that weight of fire won't hit.  Neither are a position you want to (or are ever likely) to be in.  The arms contain all four LRM 15s and can flip, but the 20s are in the torsos.  At 2961 this is a rock solid source of a shitload of damage going downrange, and compared to the Longbows earlier in this book it is absolutely worth two of them in every way.  Throw weight, durability, ability to engage at close range.  Every way.  I'm avoiding an S on this one because it's ultimately one-note, and I think that it promotes the kind of gameplay approach that will eventually leave it ass to the wind, ammo exhausted, and a battered but still functional enemy advancing to finish it off because a pair of Medium Pulse Lasers ain't shit to an Assault 'Mech.  A+

F: 1
D: 3
C: 7
B: 10
A: 4
S: 2

Cumulative 'Mechs by rating (series):

F: 30
D: 72
C: 141
B: 153
A: 81
S: 14
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

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Scotty

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Also once this completes, I may undertake some additional reviews by request.  Or, if there is any demand for it, the accumulated tactical experience that goes into forming these opinions in the form of a "So you want to play BattleTech better?" type of series.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Yay!

I was in a grinder last year with both a Mastodon and a Longbow 10K.  The Mastodon was a monster that just wouldn't die, while the Longbow was extremely effective at tearing lighter mechs into small pieces.

Wasn't impressed by the Hellion but I've never liked that mech since my introduction to it was a tournament where my opponent was cheating (I only figured this out later, as I wasn't familiar with it and only realized that I should have blown several of his limbs off with the damage I inflicted, but I was a very inexperienced player so he got away with it).
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Scotty

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I mention it in the review but the Hellion ran very hard into the recurring intrusive thought of "there's a Black Lanner that does this better" while I was writing this.  I don't normally like to think about things in that lens but it was impossible to dismiss.
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Ruger

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The Hellion E is actually several years old (a decade or more now maybe?) that was created to be a Clan version of the Firestarter. And I don’t believe that improved heavy lasers were allowed to be used (perhaps not even a thing) when this was designed, IIRC.

And I think the designer created it (original intention) as a design to go against Clan Hell’s Horses that they then took as their own.

Ruger
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Jal Phoenix

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Ah, excellent! A note on the Warhawk I - it only exists to match the art in the original TRO 3050. Even then I had to take some liberties because of fixed crits.

Mendrugo

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I like the mad genius bit.   ;)

The Hellion P came from the same design philosophy as my earlier Linebacker I - high speed to get into a rear arc, then lots of little shots to carve a target open.
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