Are there too many TROs?

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Cool but how does real life armor penetration translate to battletech damage?

It doesn't. RL penetration is pass/fail, not "sand away a layer at a time".

The L70's penetration gets worse at close range?
174mm at 500m vs 106mm at 2,000m...how did you figure that as worse?

BT is not a RL simulator, such as Steel Panthers or the venerable Angriff. RL simulators draw upon the wealth of measured data available for thousands of weapons to produce their tables, the data of armor thickness calculated to include angle of sloped designs and quality of alloys.

[bblaney]

I have recently decided to run the Chaos Campaign from the various Jihad sourcebooks and I left it up to my group to choose their mechs themselves. The biggest problem they ran into was having too much choice.

So I ask the question, are there too many TROs? Are there two many mechs and other units?

Not enough, IMO!!!!

[RebelRunner]

'Mechs I'm ambivalent about; vehicles, ASFs, and DropShips? I want MOAR!!!  :D :D
Then again, the vast majority of new ASF designs have seriously jumped the shark art-wise. Persepolis, anyone??  ;D ;D

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

They actualy do. things like AC/2, AC/5, AC/10, etc represent categories, not some very generic cannon that everyone use. The AC/20 category for example, represents cannon with a caliber that can range from 100mm to 300mm. They also have wildly different RoF's. That category basically means: "a cannon that can reliably throw 20 points worth of damage that will hit the same place. It could be a single slug that hits for 20p, or a burst of 20 1p slugs hitting the sections (like pulse lasers).

  On the tables they are the exact same weapons, no matter what the superfluous fluff may say. Take a dozen or so RL guns that penetrate X armor at X range  and you'll still have each weapon with varying performance, ranges, weights, production costs and use. The 75mm gun on a Sherman is not the same as the 75mm on a Panther.

[Redman]

In BT weapons are grouped into distinct categories for the sake of playability and a consistent set of rules. Fluff is there to add diversity and give flavour to the game. That it creates inconsistencies from an in-universe-point of view is just an unfortunate side-effect.

If you wanted to be 'realistic' you would have ACs with any possible damage rating between 1 and 20 and a weapon's range would most likely increase with damage rating rather than the other way round.

'Mechs I'm ambivalent about; vehicles, ASFs, and DropShips? I want MOAR!!!  :D :D
Then again, the vast majority of new ASF designs have seriously jumped the shark art-wise. Persepolis, anyone??  ;D ;D

What is your issue with the art of the Persepolis?  ???
Compared to designs like the Poignard, Sagitarii and Mengqin it looks like it might almost fly. And don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous ASF-art in TRO 2750.   #P

[RebelRunner]

I knew there was one I was forgetting. The Sagitarii is quite literally a flying brick, as are all of the affronts to common sense (and aerodynamics!!) you listed. Previously, only the Samurai really hurt my suspension of disbelief, and looked awesome in the process. The TRO750 stuff...yeah. The Gotha is pretty cool, though.

[FedComGirl]

It doesn't. RL penetration is pass/fail, not "sand away a layer at a time".

Then why convert them to batteltech?

The L70's penetration gets worse at close range?
174mm at 500m vs 106mm at 2,000m...how did you figure that as worse?

I must have read that wrong. My bad.  :P Sorry.

BT is not a RL simulator, such as Steel Panthers or the venerable Angriff. RL simulators draw upon the wealth of measured data available for thousands of weapons to produce their tables, the data of armor thickness calculated to include angle of sloped designs and quality of alloys.

I know that. But if you're going to bring real life things into battletech they'll have to be converted some how. That means doing damage when they wouldn't and so on.

  On the tables they are the exact same weapons, no matter what the superfluous fluff may say. Take a dozen or so RL guns that penetrate X armor at X range  and you'll still have each weapon with varying performance, ranges, weights, production costs and use. The 75mm gun on a Sherman is not the same as the 75mm on a Panther.

I wouldn't say they're the exact same weapons. Just that they have the exact same stats. I'm kind of surprised fighter/tank cannons weren't put into classes like Autocannons and Rifle Cannons based on capabilities instead of mm. But this way we got more toys so I'm not complaining. :)

[Pocado]

Perhaps is too much?  Hard to decide now, so many.  Try MUL seem to give all Mechs to everybody no faction flavor mechs anymore?

[False Son]

That may just be a MUL problem.  The definition of availability might not fit your personal taste.

[Pocado]

So.  Gracias for assistance.

[MadCapellan]

Perhaps is too much?  Hard to decide now, so many.  Try MUL seem to give all Mechs to everybody no faction flavor mechs anymore?

I assure you that's absolutely not the case.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3169/tempest-tmp-3m
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4479/lao-hu-lhu-3b
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1033/falconer-flc-8r
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4733/no-dachi-nda-2ko

There are plenty of units on the MUL that are only available to a fraction of the factions in the game universe, and plenty of faction flavor in force assembly, far more than there ever was in 3025, when only a handful of 'Mechs were used by a single Great House.

What are you looking for?  A 'Mech that is available to only a single faction?  Part of the issue is that most factions have regular trade partners.  For example, in the current timeline, most of the units available to the Capellan Confederation are also available to the Magistracy of Canopus, but that's because they are very close allies. Mechs from those factions rarely appear in the Federated Suns or Draconis Combine.

[solmanian]

Quite the contrary, actually. Becuase of salvage, enemies share mechs even more than allies. AFFS ranks are filled with Capellan mechs; in the clan invasion or civil war they also had a lot of clan and DC mechs.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Realistically, you're going to keep getting new 'mech models and makes. Things eventually wear out, and it costs more to maintain them then it does to replace them. And if you're replacing them anyways, why not design a new mech with the latest advancements and lessons learned?

What's unrealistic is the idea that a machine built 400+ years ago should still be functional after constant use. Wear and tear will make upkeep unpleasant after a while. Frankly, they need to start giving out more 'Extinct' quirks on the older machines.

Not that unrealistic.

The bulk of the mechs 'from the Age of War' are actually built much much later, it's the design that's old.

For those mechs that ARE centuries old, you have the Ship of Theseus/My Grandfather's Axe thing going on.  If every faulty part gets replaced, and the oldest current part is only 50 years old, is the mech still centuries old?