Rate the Mech: Centurion

[JPArbiter]

I am just curious as to what people think, I have my own opinions I will post later.

[Frabby]

Superflous. It doesn't have a niche, and tries to be a heavy 'Mech which its mass says it isn't. If you can only carry the arms and armor of a medium, you better be mobile like a medium, too...

[Jim1701]

It has much the same role as the Vindicator.  As a medium trooper mech.  My fave variant has to be the RACturion though. 

[MadCapellan]

Often considered the benchmark medium 'Mech the Centurion is unsurprisingly......average.

The original packed the AC/10, perhaps one of the best performing and most underrepresented weapon systems in 3025.  Carrying the class 10 cannon in a Succession Wars era makes anything so armed at least a decent contender.  Unfortunately for the Centurion, the rest of its components are extremely uninspiring.  Its speed is on the slow side of average, it has no jump jets, the LRM10 rack it packs doesn't combine fire well with the autocannon, and it mounts two medium lasers which face opposing directions.  Limited mobility and poor fields of fire make the Centurion into a plodding lance support unit, depending on teamwork with lancemates to get things done.  As many have said about the Vindicator, a lance of them work really well together, but 9 times out of 10 I'll prefer the far superior performance Enforcer.

Later upgrades seem to simply become bigger disappointments, as they render the 'Mech into an odd cavalry skirmisher.  Starting with the CN9-D, most Centurions use a massive 300 XL engine to boost their speed to Phoenix Hawk levels, but their lack of jump jets make them poor skirmishers, restricting them to running back and forth plinking from range or rushing forward and eating far greater volume of fire than is desirable for a 50 tonner with an XL engine.  The CN9-D's adoption of the LB-10X finally allowed the cannon to play nicer with the missile rack, but really did nothing to increase the 'Mech's damage dealing potential at a time when many 'Mechs firepower was doubled.  The CN9-D3D and -D4D switch to the light gauss rifle, completing the -D's evolution into a long-range plinker a la the JagerMech.  Similar principles were used in the CN9-Da refit, which slaps a tarcomp guided AC/5 on the Centurion for the ultimate in bug-swatting.

The only modern Centurion to really impress is the CN9-D5, but since it is little more than an early Legionnaire, it's hard to be overly impressed by such a one-trick pony.

I'm going to have to hold out for the appearance of an Ultra AC/Streak SRM toting Centurion if I desire to be truly impressed by the 'Mech.  It can be a decent support unit, but I wouldn't want to count on it to win battles for me.

[LordChaos]

It would be better if the 2nd ML was front facing, or was more armor.

But, as it is, as MadCapellan said at the start, it's average.  It's not going to (baring freaky luck) be a stat leader in any game... and it's actually more likely to go boom at a bad time (I think it could do with 1 ton less LRM ammo), but it's a solid lancemate and trooper mech.

6.5 out of 10.

[foxbat]

That is a mech that never impressed me, without my being able to point at a glaring fdefect in it. It lacks some mobility, but well, te Hunchback has the same move curve. Itsd armour is a boit light, but on the other hand, such is the case for a lot vof other designs. Its payload is average, able to force a PSR, and layered in brackets. But on the whole, I find it  just uninspiring, and I'll try to find something else for the BV. My main beef with it, when I come to think of it, is that even though it can do nearly everything, it does so very poorly, and that its only saving grace is that perhaps opponents will prefer to shoot at more dangerous mecsh.

[Wildonion]

I have found that the CN9-D9 helps the Centurion improve its role as a cavalry design, with the Plasma Rifle being a nice replacement for that medium autocannon and jump jets giving it the maneuverability to pair well with the Phoenix Hawk and Falconer. In keeping with the original design, the CN10-B makes the plodding design a little more bearable by upping to 55 Tons and using some advanced tech. I really used to hate the rear firing MPL on the design, until I realized that that was one of the best weapons for shooting a backstabber, given that most are good movers and/or jumpers. Makes its inclusion a little more bearable.

[Zombyra]

I must admit to a certain fondness for the old girl, the Centurion-A is one of my favorite "cannon fodder" mechs to feed to player groups. 

The basic idea of the intro mech seems to be to fit as much weapon mass as possible into the first 10 heat sinks.  The result is not necessarily "bad" as in underpowered for the era--it's just that there's so much ammo!--which is bad for the era.

The CN9-AL is a much better run at the concept, and worth a second look if the A model fails to impress.

The 3050+ upgrades are just aggravating.  Land-bound XL engines, packing in plenty of ammo or explosive weapons that, when they get hit, basicly spell the end for the machine.  The CN9-D9 is the only one of these that make any reliable sort of sense, finally rounding out the concept by adding jump jets, yet still packing the ammo bomb in the RT.

The CN10-B (at 55 tons) is, imho, the most appealing successor to the original concept, putting the upgraded weapons on a well-armored frame with a standard engine--my favorite Centurion variant, for what it's worth.

Overall, I'd have to rate it's appeal as "situational"--especially if you find explosions somewhat satisfying.

[Ian Sharpe]

Notable for Yen Lo Wang, to me.  The Centurion is a great mech in a lance, able to contribute at long, medium or short ranges, and even to help against back stabbers without needing to turn.  The AC/20 model is fun for people expecting the AC/10, as long as it can be kept supplied, and the AL is fantastic, with an energy main gun and better heat and armour, though all of them have at least two tons of ammo and not much else.  3050 models start getting good, first as ranged fire support and then as brawlers. 

[Saint]

She has worked very well for me over the past 20 yrs. But I've never counted on it being a game winner, instead I use it like a big Valkyrie. Shes there for support, and a force multipler nothing more. O0

[ShadowRaven]

on the 1-10 scale I give it a 6.5 It's nothing at all special. Kinda a 'Jack of All Trades Master of None' sort of design. The 10 rack gives it some fire support ability. the AC gives it a solid weapon with no minimum range for smacking around opponents, and the single forward medium  gives it a little more if something does close ranges. Unfortunatley, there are a lot of mechs of similar tonnage that can handle any of these roles better.  However, as a team player it can be a very effective unit. in 3025 I like to partner it up with a couple of LRM boats and use it as a bodyguard that can assist in the fire support.

Later versions suffer many of the same problems, and a few are made even worse by the inclusion of an XL engine. Though the RACturion is a stand alone improvement on the line as a whole.

[Demon55]

It is a decent design, but its lack of jump jets and slow speed for its weight makes it unappealing to me. 

[ColonelCody]

All the years I've played Battletech, the Centurion has been one of my favorite mechs. I probably have a soft spot for the machine because of Yen Lo Wang to be truthful. At the time i got intothe game, i had a thing for spy novels and such. Justin seemed like the ultimate hero giving up everything for his nation etc etc.
Now the machine itself has several glaring problems. As has been noted the speed lack of jump jets and the tendency of people trying to use it as a lightweight Heavy marks it for death on the battlefield. In 3050 we get a couple of the problems if not correct then having the potential to be corrected, raising the speed by installing a lighter weight but more powerful engine makes it a good 5/8. Respectable for a medium if not ultra fast. The armor is good. you can't really fault the weapons loadout for a Mech it's size, not outstanding but useful. All in all i see it as a solid, steady mech useful for lineholding if supported by heavys and assaults.

[Welshman]

I always saw the original Centurion as a Medium Orion. Both 'Mechs are not superstars. They are solid troopers that can lay down reliable fire time and again. And because they are not high profile classics, they don't draw as much fire as that Hunchback, Warhammer or Archer do.

In the old days I'd combine a Centurion with a couple of jumping mediums and a fast light or medium. It's job was anchor, not superstar.

[House Davie Merc]

This is an example of a mech that you will only see me field if I
roll it on a RAT .

Only  the AC/10 makes the standard variant useable IMHO .

It's slow , doesn't have jump jets, has thin armor , it's lasers
are pointed in opposite directions so that you can't focus your firepower,
the LRM and AC/10 don't focus together well ,and can explode rather easily .

Comparing it to other mechs close to it's weight -
The Phoenix Hawk is far faster ,jump capable ,and can fill multiple rolls .
The variants of the Hunchback are better armored and can focus their firepower
FAR better .
The Trebuchet is faster and can bracket it's weapons fire better .
The Enforcer has better armor everywhere but the back ,has jump,
and can focus it's firepower better .
The Vindicator is better armored ,has a long range energy boomstick,and
explodes a lot less .
The Centurion is just outdone in to many categories by to many other designs .

Even the variants .
Yet somehow it's an immensely common mech in the Sphere .

I'll pass for something else .

[Demos]

One of the mechs ever.  :)
Dependable, solid. I like the 3025 design. Maybe exchanging one ton of LRM ammo vs. onre ton of armor would be fine, but I even live happily with the CN9-A.
The 3050 variants transform it a cavalry design. Not of stellar performance, but - ... nice.

[Terra-ble]

I like it, but it is not something I must have. I have played it in the past and done well.

[Lagbreaker]

The CN-9D is one of the best TRO 3050 upgrades. 50% increase in speed and the LBX for 11xxBV is useful.
The CN-9D3 is dubious. TSM that is tedious and dangerous for that mech to use puts it into 13XX BV territory. Not worth it.
CN-9D3D and -9D4D are nice upgrades with the LGR. I prefer the D4D version with the LRM15. 13XX is not a bargain anymore but its not expensive either.
The CN-9D5 is vastly overBVed. For that you can get allmost every IS medium and quite a few heavies as well.
The CN9-D9 is too expensive. The Plasma lowers its range and JJs w/o pulse doesnt make this variant too attractive to use.
The CN-9Da is tolerable. It downsizes the main gun, but adds a TC. If nothing else, at least its cheap.

[bakija]

Eh, it's ok. Like mentioned, it is average and has nothing real exciting to recommend it, but isn't horrible. Less armor than the Vindicator (8.5 tons), no jump jets. It has reasonable mid range firepower in the AC10 and the LRM10, which is can fire both of for a long time (what with 2 tons of ammo for each) and not ever worry about heat (AC10+LRM10+run=9 heat), but it isn't shocking anyone with the damage it can do and has a lot of ammo for accidentally blowing up.

Kind of the poster child for turning the AC10 into a PPC and 7 more heat sinks (same damage potential, same weight, same net heat generation, better range, less chance of blowing up, never run out of ammo), at which point it'd be a slightly beefier Vindicator, but still wouldn't have the jump jets (take out the rear ML, replace with an extra ton of armor, not horrible)

Like, if I ended up with one in a game of random mechs, I'm sure it would do ok. It would virtually never be my first draft pick.

[Kovax]

It's a decent but uninspired design.  Its good and bad points, as have been pointed out, aren't extreme in either case.  I would have no objection to running one, but I wouldn't intentionally choose it.

[Welshman]

Comparing it to other mechs close to it's weight -
The Phoenix Hawk is far faster ,jump capable ,and can fill multiple rolls .

Has major heat issues if it jumps and fires anything more than one ML.
Jumping with standard pilots means you've got to be close to a target for decent to hits.

The variants of the Hunchback are better armored and can focus their firepower
FAR better .

No arguments, most Swaybacks are good. They are also far less common than the Centurion.

The Trebuchet is faster and can bracket it's weapons fire better .

Armor- Carries a ton less armor than the Centurion and is a bigger threat, which make it a...
Big target- Being able to toss 30 LRMs down range and being a medium puts it high on peoples kill list.
Ammo issues- 8 reloads per launcher. You can't take snap shots.
Heat issues- +2 overheat just running and shooting both LRM racks.
The SRM variant is pretty nasty though.

The Enforcer has better armor everywhere but the back ,has jump, and can focus it's firepower better .

Can only fire the autocannon if it jumps and fires without overheating. You go to +5 heat if you fire both guns giving you an instant movement penalty.
Jumping with standard pilots means you've got to be close to a target for decent to hits.
Only 4 jump jets is of limited use on a medium design. You are only generating +2 to hit with a +3 mod to your firing. A 4/6 can run 5 and generate +2 to hit with only a +2 mod. 4 hexes doesn't get you very far in tactical movement either.
Only 10 autocannon reloads means you need to be careful with your shots.

The Vindicator is better armored ,has a long range energy boomstick,and
explodes a lot less .

It's Capellan, so faction specific. The LRM5 and Small Laser are of limited use.
Only 4 jump jets is of limited use on a medium design. You are only generating +2 to hit with a +3 mod to your firing. A 4/6 can run 5 and generate +2 to hit with only a +2 mod. 4 hexes doesn't get you very far in tactical movement either. Other than that I do think it is a pretty good design and I would field Centurions and Vindys in a lance together.

The Centurion on the other hand
- The only 3039 medium that has a rear facing weapon. When dealing with 3039 lights this is a major deterrent to backstabbers.
- Ammo to spare- It can fire both the AC and the LRM every turn of combat and not being empty until round 20. You can take any shot you want.
- Heat Sinks to spare- If it runs and alphas forward it overheats by +2. So you can alpha twice in a row before having to slack off on the ML for turn.
- People see it as a "Meh" design: I can't count the number of times it gets under estimated in battle.

[Iron Mongoose]

Even some of the fluff admits that its more known for being the basis of Yen-Lo Wang than for being legitimately good, which is a rare example of the fluff of that era getting it right.

That said, if its not a super star then there's also nothing really bad about it, not withstanding the averson some have to rear weapons.  Its got solid medium mech range, it can do decent damage, its got endurance.  I wouldn't go out of my way to get one, but I wouldn't get rid of one I had, either.

As for the 6/9s, while its not probably where I would have gone with it, I don't mind the choice.  With main guns ranging to 21 and 18, combined with the speed its one of the few IS mediums that can run with its Clan counterparts for range and speed, and it can even get away from Clan heavies in a pinch (yes, the Stormcrow Prime has more range, but the IS has only a small number of assualt mechs that can hope to stand up to the Stormcrow, so the notion that the Centurion gives up only as much as it does is actualy sort of a complement).

[MadCapellan]

Has major heat issues if it jumps and fires anything more than one ML.

In and out large laser love taps are what the Phoenix Hawk is about.  Leap in large laser to the back, leap out behind cover, cool, repeat.  Few units in 3025 can really take repeated large lasers to the rear, and if you're hittable at any other point, you're doing it wrong.  Still, unless we're discussing the PXH-1K Phoenix Hawk, we're talking about a unit which is apples and oranges to the Centurion.

Can only fire the autocannon if it jumps and fires without overheating. You go to +5 heat if you fire both guns giving you an instant movement penalty.

if you feel the need to fire and leap with the Enforcer, which shouldn't be a common occurance, you're going to fire the large laser only, not waste the autocannon slug.  In any case, if you are close enough to leap in on someone like that, dropping from 4/6/4 to 3/5/4 isn't going to hurt the Enforcer any.  The main advantage of the Enforcer is that it is a dedicated brawler that doesn't waste tonnage on LRMs that it can't effectively bare on it's primary target, and instead concentrates on blazing away with the AC/laser combo.

Only 4 jump jets is of limited use on a medium design. You are only generating +2 to hit with a +3 mod to your firing. A 4/6 can run 5 and generate +2 to hit with only a +2 mod. 4 hexes doesn't get you very far in tactical movement either.

The lack of jump jets on the Centurion isn't in and of itself a game breaker, but it tends to give brawlers a lot better options about where they can position, because it allows them to clear Lvl 2+ terrain.  The to-hit modifiers are irrelevent, as far as I'm concerned.  If I jump with an Enforcer, either I'm trying to break LOS from the enemy or I'm trying to clear otherwise impassible terrain to gain LOS.

- The only 3039 medium that has a rear facing weapon. When dealing with 3039 lights this is a major deterrent to backstabbers.

Unfortunately, that meant a lot more before they introduced the torso-twisting rules.  Now, it'd really be better off on the opposite arm from the cannon.

[Sartris]

Big fan of the D5 with the MASC and speed to get to decent spots.

[Deadborder]

As has been said above, the Centurion is a middling to above-average mech in most of its versions. It's not bad per se, but at the same time lacks in good features. It is, however, a great team-mate mech, one that will give its best showing in a lance with others.

With that begin said, I've had a lot of fun with the D9. The plasma cannon/jump jet combo is surprisingly good, and it's a great way to mess with people and stir things up. It won't win a battle on its own, but it will certainly make things interesting. Just a pity it lacks the crits to swap that LRM for an MML.

[JPArbiter]

wow,. I leave for wortk all day and I see the page is almost filled.

I admit I am biased to love the machine, simply because of it's look, and the success I have had with it may well be forced success of playing them all the time and learning their ins and outs with each variant.  in the 3025-2029 era I have found Centurions are not excellent attack platforms.  they can get the job done, but their in ability to do anything but advance forward is their primary limitation.

as roadblocks, sentires, and anchors the CN9 has excelled for me, as well as operating as the bodyguard in Archer or Jagermech lances.  For some reason I have found a single centurion makes players want to give otherwise easy targets a wide berth.

I have found that in a game with reasonable skills on the table (IE Regular and occasionally veteran pilots) the lack of armor is not so much of a deficit, and it's deep ammunition bins make it outlast and enable more kills per pilot.

[monbvol]

CN9-A:  One of the better showcases why even in the era of the single heat sink you are better off with a PPC and Single Heat Sinks than an AC-10 on a mech.

CN9-D:  I've actually had more success using this one believe it or not.  The extra ground speed has allowed me to surprise a couple of foes who under rated the mobility and allowed me to get this mech into an uncomfortable firing position on a flank.

[MadCapellan]

CN9-D:  I've actually had more success using this one believe it or not.  The extra ground speed has allowed me to surprise a couple of foes who under rated the mobility and allowed me to get this mech into an uncomfortable firing position on a flank.

It's not a bad 'Mech, per se.  It's just a medium-to-long range plinker, which is hardly a role that gets people excited, or which determines the course of battle.

[Welshman]

Anyone used the HPPC variant we put in the ONN Record Sheets? Curious on opinions of that one.

[Diamondshark]

It is actually my favorite SW medium (it would be the Hunchback if not for the fact that my Hunchbacks always get blown to kingdom come every time). It doesn't shine in any roll, but it can lay down hurt at any range, and runs very cool for the era (probably the #1 selling point for me). I got in to Battletech near the end of the Civil War where it was easy to get perfectly cool alpha-strikers, so as much as my objective mind doesn't mind, a little piece of me dies every time I have to hold back most of my guns to keep the heat in check *glares at Phoenix Hawk*. It can punch holes with the AC-10, critseek with the laser and LRMs (which can be fired indirectly), and the rear ML discourages backstabbers. It takes a lot of flak for having lots of ammo, but I run out of ammo FAR more often than my ammo goes off, so I really don't mind.

Anytime I run a medium SW mech in a game (unless I am in a harasser lance, where I use a -5T Vulcan), I pilot either the CN9-A or the CN9-AH. In the modern era, I have a modified CN9-D5 which replaces the ammo weapons with a Thunderbolt 20 with a lot of ammo. It really hurts other units its own size like not many other units can.