Author Topic: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?  (Read 20020 times)

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #30 on: 12 February 2011, 22:34:41 »
It was a generalisation. Apollo and Alphard are more or less mirror images of each other. Flip the map in half and they line up fairly well, and their power bases expanded more or less in a mirror image, with a bulbous area around the capital, stretching along the left side of the Successor States, and meeting up at Circinus.
I gues it's in the eye of the beholder, but I see little geographical similarity between the two.  Look at the X,Y coordinates from IS Atlas:  Alphard: -409.71, -300.89.  Apollo: -130.66, 436.32.  Alphard's are fairly close, it's roughly 4/3s far from Terra laterally as vertically.  Apollo's Y is more that triple it's X, it's three times as far from Terra vertically compatred to laterally.  If you fold the map in half, the closest world is probably Adherlwin or Lockton in the MoC, a couple of hundred light years from Alphard.  Likewise the   RWR ran along the entire Lyran Periphery, at the MH's greatest extent, it covered perhaps half the FWL's periphery.
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Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #31 on: 13 February 2011, 00:30:30 »
The Rim Worlds Republic and the Marian Hegemony are not perfect comparisons. They existed during different eras, with differing levels of technology, and a different political climate. But I’m going to try and compare apples for apples.

In the Republic’s first 116 years, they grew from 1 world to 23. At least 16 of those were acquired not through colonisation, but by other means. The remaining 6 may have been acquired through similar means, or may be the result of colonising efforts.

In the Hegemony’s first 116 years, they grew from 1 world to 9. All 8 were colonised. In the 94 years since (up to 3130), they have colonised an additional 5, and acquired 15, although they later lost six of those acquisitions.

During the Republic’s 532+ years, 158 of those were known as the Age of War. There was a mass exodus for the periphery. People were colonising it to escape war. This presented them with plenty of targets to annex. There was also a greater level of technology, making colonisation easier. A further 183 years were spent as members of the Star League, much of which was peaceful. The Marian Hegemony was born during the Succession Wars, and was ravaged by the Jihad. They haven’t enjoyed the advantages of time, technology, or stability that the Republic had, yet their goal is much the same. And up until the Jihad, they were well on their way to mirroring the Republic’s growth.

For comparison’s sake, I’ve included a to scale map of both. This was a quick and dirty thing, so the quality isn’t great, but the black areas are the core, that area controlled in their first 116 years, and the rest shows their greatest extent.

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Martius

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #32 on: 13 February 2011, 03:24:59 »
I think the Dark Age has proven that. With a fractured Free Worlds League, the Marian Hegemony still had no where to grow except through colonisation. The League, even fractured, is too strong. And the Magistracy of Canopus is no easier a target.

We got a few league worlds and the Lothians are still very close to the Hegemony. So I am rather pleased- especially as we had no big brother to help us out in time of needs.

And lets be honest- colonization is not really that common in the BT universe. This may have mostly out of universe reasons, but is an in universe fact. Only some periphery realms try it, the sucessor states don't really bother with it.

Anyway- I am really curious in what direction the MH will develop.

Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #33 on: 13 February 2011, 03:35:12 »
We got a few league worlds and the Lothians are still very close to the Hegemony. So I am rather pleased- especially as we had no big brother to help us out in time of needs.

And lets be honest- colonization is not really that common in the BT universe. This may have mostly out of universe reasons, but is an in universe fact. Only some periphery realms try it, the sucessor states don't really bother with it.

Anyway- I am really curious in what direction the MH will develop.

Colonisation used to be big right on up to the Succession Wars. It began again in the periphery after the Fourth Succession War, but it’s still non-existent in the Inner Sphere. The Hanseatic League, Marian Hegemony, Outworlds Alliance, Magistracy of Canopus, Fronc Reaches, and even the Taurian Concordat before the Jihad, have all expanded through colonisation. The Clans and the Word of Blake/ComStar set up a number of worlds in the Deep Periphery too, though they are mostly limited to supply depots.
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Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #34 on: 13 February 2011, 03:55:07 »
I just noticed a source that references the Hegemony establishing economic and military control over their original eight worlds (not counting Alphard).
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ProtoEva00

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #35 on: 02 March 2011, 18:17:15 »
  Been hunting info on the Hegemony, and the most recent update I've found on what's been happening seems to be in Touring the Stars (pg 95).  The Hegemony has shrunk since the Jihad.  Apparently it didn't have the strength to hold onto Lothian League, and haven't been able to re-conquer it since.
  I'm not seeing much of an opportunity for history to repeat it self at the moment. 
« Last Edit: 02 March 2011, 18:49:21 by ProtoEva00 »

Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #36 on: 03 March 2011, 14:33:43 »
  Been hunting info on the Hegemony, and the most recent update I've found on what's been happening seems to be in Touring the Stars (pg 95).  The Hegemony has shrunk since the Jihad.  Apparently it didn't have the strength to hold onto Lothian League, and haven't been able to re-conquer it since.
  I'm not seeing much of an opportunity for history to repeat it self at the moment.

Alphard, and the Marian Hegemony at large, were bombed back to the stone age, by the same guys that helped bring it up to Successor State levels of technology. The Word of Blake was very effective in their bombings. The Hegemony was also fairly overstretched at the time. That they have managed to maintain control of their Illyrian and Circinian gains is commendable. And it appears that the Lothian League retains ties to the Hegemony. They also gained a few former Free Worlds League worlds. The Jihad was a setback to be sure, but it does not mean that they cannot achieve their goals.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #37 on: 03 March 2011, 22:41:59 »
Well, Rome had to have its Samnite, Punic and Pyrrhic Wars to emerge stronger. Consider the Dark Age a new opportunity for the Hegemony.

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #38 on: 03 March 2011, 22:44:54 »
Well, Rome had to have its Samnite, Punic and Pyrrhic Wars to emerge stronger. Consider the Dark Age a new opportunity for the Hegemony.

Alphard as Rome and Terra as Carthage, huh. I seem to recall a similar situation with Apollo and Terra. It didn't work out so well for Apollo.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #39 on: 03 March 2011, 23:01:26 »
I think Carthage is Circinus. Terra is more like Parthia or Sassanids.

Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #40 on: 03 March 2011, 23:37:04 »
I think Carthage is Circinus. Terra is more like Parthia or Sassanids.

But the Romans didn’t destroy Carthage. Well, they did. But they rebuilt it. It became just another part of the Empire. Circinus is so radioactive that the planet’s been removed from the map.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #41 on: 03 March 2011, 23:49:35 »
Which is the perfect analogy. Carthage was brutally destroyed, and the Romans took special care to salt the earth. That is the ancient equivalent of nukes. Circinus suffered the same fate, although it probably would be the Regulans doing the nuking.

But the Carthage or Africa province was turned into a breadbasket i.e. the area surrounding Carthage city. An analogy of this can be found in Balthazar III, where there is a high probability of the existence of a 'Mech factory building Star League-tech 'Mechs, something the Hegemony utterly lacks. If the Hegemony gets this... }:)

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #42 on: 03 March 2011, 23:51:46 »
Which is the perfect analogy. Carthage was brutally destroyed, and the Romans took special care to salt the earth. That is the ancient equivalent of nukes. Circinus suffered the same fate, although it probably would be the Regulans doing the nuking.

But the Carthage or Africa province was turned into a breadbasket i.e. the area surrounding Carthage city. An analogy of this can be found in Balthazar III, where there is a high probability of the existence of a 'Mech factory building Star League-tech 'Mechs, something the Hegemony utterly lacks. If the Hegemony gets this... }:)

If? If? What's this if? The word you're looking for is when.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #43 on: 05 March 2011, 00:25:20 »
There has been no canon confirmation of the Balthazar III factory isn't it? That's why i'm using "if"

Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #44 on: 05 March 2011, 00:37:40 »
There has been no canon confirmation of the Balthazar III factory isn't it? That's why i'm using "if"

If the Hegemony gets this... }:)

Actually, I was referring to that part. Whatever might be on Baltazar III, it will be Marian. Oh yes, it will be Marian.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #45 on: 05 March 2011, 01:19:22 »
Marian Marauders, Ostrocs and possibly Firestarters produced in-house [rockon]

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #46 on: 05 March 2011, 02:10:02 »
Seeing as the Marian Hegemony has not only failed to expand, but lost territory, I wouldn't bet on them getting Baltazar III any time soon.

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #47 on: 05 March 2011, 02:54:46 »
Seeing as the Marian Hegemony has not only failed to expand, but lost territory, I wouldn't bet on them getting Baltazar III any time soon.

It really depends on the nature of relationship. In an ideal world, it would mirror the relationship between the Oberon Confederation and the Elysian Fields. For the better part of 40 years, the Elysian Fields was a protectorate of the Confederation. The Elysian Fields got to set domestic policy, but were economically, politically, militarily, and communication-wise dependent on the Confederation. At worst, we can hope it mirrors the St. Ives Compact/Federated Suns relationship.

Touring the Stars mentioned that the League maintains strong ties to the Hegemony, and that there is still a “distinctly Roman flavour to the government”.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #48 on: 05 March 2011, 09:57:31 »
Seeing as the Marian Hegemony has not only failed to expand, but lost territory, I wouldn't bet on them getting Baltazar III any time soon.

It can do so in the Dark Age, not in present time.

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #49 on: 05 March 2011, 12:11:27 »
It really depends on the nature of relationship. In an ideal world, it would mirror the relationship between the Oberon Confederation and the Elysian Fields. For the better part of 40 years, the Elysian Fields was a protectorate of the Confederation. The Elysian Fields got to set domestic policy, but were economically, politically, militarily, and communication-wise dependent on the Confederation. At worst, we can hope it mirrors the St. Ives Compact/Federated Suns relationship.

Touring the Stars mentioned that the League maintains strong ties to the Hegemony, and that there is still a “distinctly Roman flavour to the government”.
I think you're are being extremely optimistic about the chances of the League and Hegemony having anything resembling a good relationship. In an ideal world, the Marian Hegemony would be running the League's government, terrorizing dissidents and exploiting it's resources. At worst, the independent Lothians loathe the Marians and visa versa. Frankly, I think your interpretation of the available information has an unrealistically pro-Marian slant.

It can do so in the Dark Age, not in present time.
Well, the Marian Hegemony as it is now has lost it's mojo. And since nobodies claimed the mysterious Federation factories yet, I tend to think they don't exist in the Dark Ages.

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #50 on: 05 March 2011, 14:14:58 »
I think you're are being extremely optimistic about the chances of the League and Hegemony having anything resembling a good relationship. In an ideal world, the Marian Hegemony would be running the League's government, terrorizing dissidents and exploiting it's resources. At worst, the independent Lothians loathe the Marians and visa versa. Frankly, I think your interpretation of the available information has an unrealistically pro-Marian slant.
Well, the Marian Hegemony as it is now has lost it's mojo. And since nobodies claimed the mysterious Federation factories yet, I tend to think they don't exist in the Dark Ages.

Well, yes, of course. I did present an ideal situation, so it shouldn’t be surprising that it came out as pro-Marian. All we know for certain at this point is that the Marian Hegemony’s government collapsed during the Jihad when the capital was destroyed, Caesar and most if not all of the Senate were killed. During that Chaos, the Lothian League broke away. In the present (3130), the League and the Hegemony have “strong ties”. Until we have more information, we have to interpret it. But “strong ties” would suggest that they have a good relationship to me.
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shadow_walker

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #51 on: 10 March 2011, 13:07:52 »
Every nation needs a puppet state.
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Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #52 on: 10 March 2011, 15:58:50 »
Are you suggesting that it might be Egypt pre-Augustus?
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shadow_walker

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #53 on: 11 March 2011, 11:34:59 »
Sure, why not. Whats the worse that will happen. ;D
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Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #54 on: 11 March 2011, 12:19:59 »
They could get uppity.
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shadow_walker

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #55 on: 11 March 2011, 13:10:36 »
That's what mechs are for.
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Guardsman

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #56 on: 11 March 2011, 13:14:56 »
Not just 'Mechs. Vehicles, Fighters, Battle Armour, Infantry, DropShips, Small Craft, WarShips . . . wait, does the Hegemony have WarShips yet?
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shadow_walker

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #57 on: 11 March 2011, 13:19:36 »
Does Invader class Jumpship count?
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #58 on: 12 March 2011, 04:19:24 »
It can jump.

It has weapons.

YES!

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Re: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic?
« Reply #59 on: 12 March 2011, 05:07:16 »
Hehe.

Just weld a subcap weapon to it- hmm... does it have the space heat sinks for that?