Author Topic: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech  (Read 22366 times)

mutantmagnet

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #60 on: 01 August 2012, 17:59:42 »
I like your rules, especially the newer jump jets (which need to be done across the board anyway) and infantry deployment. Although I would expand it to be that LAMs could carry Battle Armored troops and PAL suited infantry as well. These would hang on to the outside of the hull somehow, possibly the suits strength could augment it. Dropping between 2 and 4 troops as they flew over. Or use internal bomb bays for this as well.


Thanks.

We already have options for BA to attach to units with magnetic clamps or the unit being built as an Omni. LAMs can't become omnis but mag clamps would still work. Though I doubt they could do this without giving the LAM severe penalties but we'll have to wait until addendums and full rules are made.

Wouldn't sloped plating apply to standard mechs as well? Not to mention that going by the fluff art, many mechs DO have sloped plating. Doesn't seem to improve protection at all from a tonnage cost point of view.

That's right. My initial inspiration for it was the Grizzly.

I didn't see it as feasible to try and think of tech that would be restricted to LAMs. The sloped configuration would be fine even on combat vehicles and regular fighters as well as mechs.

Just because the fluff mentions sloped plating doesn't mean it has the same relevance as canon equipment. Fluff special attributes are now handled by the quirks and perks tables.

Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #61 on: 11 August 2012, 05:58:59 »

I have been thinking on how to make LAM competitive on the weapon front with ASFs. And I have concluded that the best way to do this is to use an (LAM-Only) improved bomb bay. This could allow a LAM to carry fuel pods and strong anti-air munitions, while having weaker ground munitions.

And by using custom munitions is it far easier to balance LAM to new time periods, such as having Mk-I munitions for 3025, Mk-II munitions for 3050, etc. 
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Cowdragon

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #62 on: 11 August 2012, 08:53:44 »
I have been thinking on how to make LAM competitive on the weapon front with ASFs. And I have concluded that the best way to do this is to use an (LAM-Only) improved bomb bay. This could allow a LAM to carry fuel pods and strong anti-air munitions, while having weaker ground munitions.

And by using custom munitions is it far easier to balance LAM to new time periods, such as having Mk-I munitions for 3025, Mk-II munitions for 3050, etc.

what do you mean? Like having a bomb bay that fires anti fighter missiles or something?

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evilauthor

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #63 on: 11 August 2012, 09:16:09 »
And why would this Improved Bomb Bay only be available to LAMs?

Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #64 on: 11 August 2012, 09:23:10 »
what do you mean? Like having a bomb bay that fires anti fighter missiles or something?
Well bomb bays can already do that, see TO page 357 to 359. The twist is to fluff up an 'improved bomb-bay' and give it munitions that only it can use.


And why would this Improved Bomb Bay only be available to LAMs?
My current idea is to have this bomb-bay require composite structure.
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Cowdragon

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #65 on: 11 August 2012, 09:44:48 »
And why would this Improved Bomb Bay only be available to LAMs?

agreed.

Well bomb bays can already do that, see TO page 357 to 359. The twist is to fluff up an 'improved bomb-bay' and give it munitions that only it can use.


This was cool to find out! Not sure how effective the LAAA Missiles are though. 6 pots of damage? You get 2 per bay, but hmmm. Better than rockets I guess... maybe...

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Red Pins

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #66 on: 11 August 2012, 15:23:45 »
...Well, lets see.

1.  Because they don't have anything better (ie, specialized)?  Because (as somebody else suggested) the planet's terrain is a majority of small islands?

2.  ...I came up with PAMs (Permanent AirMechs) for my AU - the structure of the Mech is built specifically to use the benefits of a LAM's AirMech mode, but has no conversion gear.  Things like the 1/3rd ground movement penalty and (x3) jump are permanent and unable to be changed.

They're actually pretty fun, but I have other homebrew tech that can help wipe them out, too.  If its a main unit of whatever group, it won't be long before another group makes a LAM-Killer missile, or something.  I use TAGs with Semi-Guided missiles, myself.

3.  ...I don't think you need anything else; they already are competitive.  Don't send one to fight a mismatched battle, and you'll be fine.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #67 on: 12 August 2012, 15:56:42 »
(i only skimmed the thread so far.. talk about wall-o-text responses)

i'd imagine that any faction using LAM's extensively would invest heavily in technology that reduces both bulk and weight.
Composite internals would be a definate. IJJ's would certainly be developed to improve the flight performance.
concepts like the Watchdog CEWS system with it's dual ECM/BAP crammed into one compact device, or the Nova CEWS like the Society made, adding ECM/BAP, and C3i ability would also be probably. LAM's have too little mass and space even with weight saving construction to make carrying a full version of each problematic.
i'd imagine that a LAM using faction would develop dedicated fuel-pods to give extra endurance in fighter mode, without the need to fit bomb bays.
also, perhaps a sensor/targeting system improvement that lets the LAM using it's full aerospace weapon ranges when operating in mech mode in space.
i'd also imagine that they'd develop something similar to the Light AAM, in order to give bomb bay equipped LAM's some extra punch in air combat.
likewise the RL-10. (instead of just using the primitive version with the to hit penalty)

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #68 on: 12 August 2012, 18:20:57 »
(i only skimmed the thread so far.. talk about wall-o-text responses)

i'd imagine that any faction using LAM's extensively would invest heavily in technology that reduces both bulk and weight.
Composite internals would be a definate. IJJ's would certainly be developed to improve the flight performance.
concepts like the Watchdog CEWS system with it's dual ECM/BAP crammed into one compact device, or the Nova CEWS like the Society made, adding ECM/BAP, and C3i ability would also be probably. LAM's have too little mass and space even with weight saving construction to make carrying a full version of each problematic.
i'd imagine that a LAM using faction would develop dedicated fuel-pods to give extra endurance in fighter mode, without the need to fit bomb bays.
also, perhaps a sensor/targeting system improvement that lets the LAM using it's full aerospace weapon ranges when operating in mech mode in space.
i'd also imagine that they'd develop something similar to the Light AAM, in order to give bomb bay equipped LAM's some extra punch in air combat.
likewise the RL-10. (instead of just using the primitive version with the to hit penalty)

Great ideas! The C3/ECM/BAP combo would be pretty sexy. What are these "CEWS" and "Nova" and "Watchdogs" of which you speak?

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glitterboy2098

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #69 on: 12 August 2012, 18:58:56 »
Great ideas! The C3/ECM/BAP combo would be pretty sexy. What are these "CEWS" and "Nova" and "Watchdogs" of which you speak?

Watchdog Composite Electronic Warfare System. a combined ecm/active probe.
the Society from the Wars of Reaving. introduced the Nova CEWS, which offered a slightly reduced range version of the watchdog that also had the ability to link up with 2 other Nova CEWS equipped units and share targeting data, similar to C3i systems.

composite internals and IJJ's are both legal to use on LAM's now, its just they were developed after LAM's had been abandoned in setting. but any faction using LAM's extensively would be driven to develop both, because composite internals can give extra useable mass without adding bulk (and the extra fragility is not a big thing with LAM's), and IJJ's mean you can eak out up to an extra 50% thrust in fighter and airmech mode, if you have the extra mass to use to mount them.
« Last Edit: 16 September 2012, 00:16:41 by glitterboy2098 »

Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #70 on: 01 September 2012, 16:58:22 »
Here is my current ideas for the new bay:


Improved Bomb Bay
The standard bomb bay offers 1 bomb slot per ton, while the Improved Bomb Bay can carry 1 ton of bomb munitions per ton of its own weight. Like the standard bomb bay the improved version takes up 1 critical space per ton. This capacity increase is partly due to use of Composite internal structure, which offers the space and the proper supports to mount an Improved Bomb Bay.  Also the location in which the Improved Bomb Bay is mounted must be dedicated to it, this means that no other equipment (weapons, heatsinks, JJ, etc) can be mounted in that location.

This means that a LAM can only have 2 Improved Bomb Bays (Right and Left side torso), and each has a maximum capacity of 12 tons. And each Improved Bomb Bay can only use 1 munition per turn.




I am also trying to arrange several sets of canon and custom munitions, each set should be balanced against a specific type of opponent. For example F munitions would be needed against opponents using Advanced IS Tech. Please tell me if you think if a munition needs to be moved up or down the tech scale.

A-D munitions
Internal Fuel Pod (2 tons, 160 points of fuel, fragile)
Rocket Launcher pods
Cargo Pod
Cluster Bomb
Torpedo Bomb
Air-to-Air Missile
Anti-Ship Missile

E munitions
Probe Pod
ECM Pod   
Inferno Bomb
Arrow IV (Standard)
Light LRM Pod [15 LRMs, 0.5 tons]
Light SRM Pod [12 SRMs, 0.5 ton]
Air-to-Air Precision (AAP) [7 damage, 0.5 tons, -2 to hit]


F munitions
Heavy LRM Pod [30 LRMs, 1 ton]
Heavy SRM Pod [25 SRMs, 1 ton]
Coolant Pod
Limpet Mine (30 dam, 1 ton, Command detonated)
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Cowdragon

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #71 on: 01 September 2012, 19:20:38 »
Here is my current ideas for the new bay:


Improved Bomb Bay
The standard bomb bay offers 1 bomb slot per ton, while the Improved Bomb Bay can carry 1 ton of bomb munitions per ton of its own weight. Like the standard bomb bay the improved version takes up 1 critical space per ton. This capacity increase is partly due to use of Composite internal structure, which offers the space and the proper supports to mount an Improved Bomb Bay.  Also the location in which the Improved Bomb Bay is mounted must be dedicated to it, this means that no other equipment (weapons, heatsinks, JJ, etc) can be mounted in that location.

This means that a LAM can only have 2 Improved Bomb Bays (Right and Left side torso), and each has a maximum capacity of 12 tons. And each Improved Bomb Bay can only use 1 munition per turn.




I am also trying to arrange several sets of canon and custom munitions, each set should be balanced against a specific type of opponent. For example F munitions would be needed against opponents using Advanced IS Tech. Please tell me if you think if a munition needs to be moved up or down the tech scale.

A-D munitions
Internal Fuel Pod (2 tons, 160 points of fuel, fragile)
Rocket Launcher pods
Cargo Pod
Cluster Bomb
Torpedo Bomb
Air-to-Air Missile
Anti-Ship Missile

E munitions
Probe Pod
ECM Pod   
Inferno Bomb
Arrow IV (Standard)
Light LRM Pod [15 LRMs, 0.5 tons]
Light SRM Pod [12 SRMs, 0.5 ton]
Air-to-Air Precision (AAP) [7 damage, 0.5 tons, -2 to hit]


F munitions
Heavy LRM Pod [30 LRMs, 1 ton]
Heavy SRM Pod [25 SRMs, 1 ton]
Coolant Pod
Limpet Mine (30 dam, 1 ton, Command detonated)

OOH!!!! Cool! Could you split the weight of your bomb bay? For instance, you invest in a 1 ton bomb bay. Could you mount 2 .5 ton "things" in it? Or would it just take up the entire bay? I'm thinking that should be the advantage of the LAM. Letting it omni-up a little with its bays!

Also, I would like to see internal bomb bays able to carry space suited infantry. What? .5 tons each?

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Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #72 on: 02 September 2012, 03:38:59 »
OOH!!!! Cool! Could you split the weight of your bomb bay? For instance, you invest in a 1 ton bomb bay. Could you mount 2 .5 ton "things" in it? Or would it just take up the entire bay? I'm thinking that should be the advantage of the LAM. Letting it omni-up a little with its bays!
I don't see a problem with that, but I would make sure that its 2x of the same munition type.

Quote
Also, I would like to see internal bomb bays able to carry space suited infantry. What? .5 tons each?
I guess that this is possible, but I would limit the thrust a LAM could use before it had to roll for possible passenger damage.
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Belisarius

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #73 on: 02 September 2012, 07:33:03 »
You could have drop-pods and/or built harnesses or some such.

Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #74 on: 02 September 2012, 07:50:13 »
You could have drop-pods and/or built harnesses or some such.
Infantry drop pods, I like it. Any ideas on how much cost and weight per infantry man?
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Belisarius

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #75 on: 02 September 2012, 08:57:09 »
TBH no clue, but dropships supposedly have similar constructs for Battlemechs whose weight I've never seen taken into account (meaning that, mechanically, they have a weight of zero). So you could have up to one battlearmor trooper per ton or seven PBIs (with required space suits or sneak suits or what-have-you).

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #76 on: 02 September 2012, 23:33:00 »
TBH no clue, but dropships supposedly have similar constructs for Battlemechs whose weight I've never seen taken into account (meaning that, mechanically, they have a weight of zero). So you could have up to one battlearmor trooper per ton or seven PBIs (with required space suits or sneak suits or what-have-you).

They're either part of the 50+ extra tons of the mech bay or they're carried as cargo. No idea which though.

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #77 on: 03 September 2012, 00:32:16 »
Other than the cargo weight, do vehicles like the Hiryo devote any weight to making sure their BA doesn't rattle around? I always assumed that we (meaning the collective BT community) just fluffed away that whole dunnage and harnessing problem-set.

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #78 on: 03 September 2012, 08:17:57 »
Other than the cargo weight, do vehicles like the Hiryo devote any weight to making sure their BA doesn't rattle around? I always assumed that we (meaning the collective BT community) just fluffed away that whole dunnage and harnessing problem-set.

I assume there are things like clamps and stuff that the holds the BA in place (or the BA holds to keep itself in place). However the weight is likely negligible since Omnimechs being able to carry BA is a specific advantage they have over standard mechs... but that BA carrying capability ALSO uses up no tonnage and more significantly, uses up no C-Bills either.

Basically, if something is specified by rule or fluff to carry BA, assume any needed securing equipment has been added and that such equipment takes up little to no tonnage.

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #79 on: 04 September 2012, 18:19:06 »
I would like to start a discussion about making LAM-based factions and any reasonable custom technology they might use. The precise points that I want to discus are:

1. What type of circumstances could lead or force a group to use LAMs as their main combatant?
2. What kind of improvements to LAM technology can we reasonably expect from such a specialized LAM faction?
3. What kind of custom weapons/equipment would allow LAMs to be competitive but not overpowered?

1. I think a highly developed raiding state, similar to vikings of the old world.  Compact core warships, designed like aerodynamic drop ships plunging in from a pirate point, releasing a combination of fighters and LAMs to attack very specific targets and make off with loots and or salt earth.  If stealth was possible, infiltration and supply running would also be useful.  I forsee a very mobile, near nomadic force with a manpower shortage, but with a decently advanced manufaturing base to support the technological skill needed, along with the infrastructure to train the pilots.

2. Weight efficiency and tech that works with the LAM restrictions, rather than trying to reinvent the LAM wheel, so to speak.  I'd like to think recon tech, stealth tech, and Missles would be highly prized, since indirect fire would be extremely handy to mobile units that can break LOS.  tech such as the Society NOVA CEWS device, and range also would be primary.  I forsee a greater concentration of larger single punch weapons, rather then bevies of smaller weapons, as infantry and LAMs rarely interact, and even powerarmor has little to throw at the massive air supperiority of a LAM.

3. 
Weight savings on Jump jets.
Hyperion Jump Jet system.  The Hyperion Jump jet system is an integrated system comprised of a number of individual jump jets.  These jump jets would utilize living metal alloys, a variable geometry turbine design and rapid recyling plasma ejection system, along with light weight materials and a constant intake of air to generate massive directional thrust at the expanse of needing to constantly remain at a certain level of operational activity; the jump jets must always remain "on."

Construction: Hyperion Jump Jets (Hjj) may be mounted only on a Mech.  A Mech equiped with an Hjjs must mount thrusters equal to the mech's running MP.
Weight: Each thruster weighs .5 tons.
Crits: Each thruster occupies 2 critical locations.
Placement: Thrusters may be placed in any location except the head.
Rules: Mechs equiped with the Hyperion Thrust jump jets follow all normal rules regarding mech movement with the following exceptions:
-HJJs generates 5 heat when not in use.  I.e. if a mech walks or runs, the Hjj's generate 5 heat in addition to the normal mode of movement.
-when jumping the mech generates heat equal to the number of Hjj thrusters + 2.  a mech with 7 thrusters that jumps would generate 9 heat.
-If an Hjj is critically hit it explodes for 3 points of damage and is destroyed (treat as an ammo explosion).  Additionally, if a thruster is rendered unusable (due to a location being destroyed or the thruster being critically hit) the thruster still generates heat when jumping as though it were still active, but provides no MP.
-An Hjj system may be turned off during the end phase of a turn, but doing so prevents the system from being used for the rest of the scenario. 
-A mech shut down does not prevent the Hjj system from shutting down.  the thrusters continue to recycle plasma and produce minute thrust, and the system continues to generate heat.  A shut down unit can not deactivate the Hjj system.

This is an example tech that reduces the weight burden on a LAM while IMO encouraging alternative weapon loadouts other than 10 medium lasers. 

Notice that in the design of this the system is made up of individual thrusters and the crits can be dispersed in the arms, taking the burden off the torso's for crit placement.

Another unique tech Idea:
Compact Actuators
Weight: 2 tons
rules: Actuators take up less space, folding actuators per location 2 slots for the legs and 2 slots for the arms instead of 4 for each limb.  If a location containing actuators is critically hit, both actuators are destroyed.

Also, as has been said before, LAMs should be treated as having partial wing in mech mode, and IMO airmech MP should be based off (jump mp w/partial wing bonus) x 2 for cruising mp.  this way, the numbers remain very similar to what they would be now, but the benefits of partial wing are factored in.

Also, Personally would like to see LAMs that may mount special armor.  I feel that since armor is external (more or less) it's not hard to engineer around that for the conversion process.  but then that's me.  :)

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #80 on: 04 September 2012, 23:49:36 »
1. I think a highly developed raiding state, similar to vikings of the old world.  Compact core warships, designed like aerodynamic drop ships plunging in from a pirate point, releasing a combination of fighters and LAMs to attack very specific targets and make off with loots and or salt earth.  If stealth was possible, infiltration and supply running would also be useful.  I forsee a very mobile, near nomadic force with a manpower shortage, but with a decently advanced manufaturing base to support the technological skill needed, along with the infrastructure to train the pilots.

2. Weight efficiency and tech that works with the LAM restrictions, rather than trying to reinvent the LAM wheel, so to speak.  I'd like to think recon tech, stealth tech, and Missles would be highly prized, since indirect fire would be extremely handy to mobile units that can break LOS.  tech such as the Society NOVA CEWS device, and range also would be primary.  I forsee a greater concentration of larger single punch weapons, rather then bevies of smaller weapons, as infantry and LAMs rarely interact, and even powerarmor has little to throw at the massive air supperiority of a LAM.

3. 
Weight savings on Jump jets.
Hyperion Jump Jet system.  The Hyperion Jump jet system is an integrated system comprised of a number of individual jump jets.  These jump jets would utilize living metal alloys, a variable geometry turbine design and rapid recyling plasma ejection system, along with light weight materials and a constant intake of air to generate massive directional thrust at the expanse of needing to constantly remain at a certain level of operational activity; the jump jets must always remain "on."

Construction: Hyperion Jump Jets (Hjj) may be mounted only on a Mech.  A Mech equiped with an Hjjs must mount thrusters equal to the mech's running MP.
Weight: Each thruster weighs .5 tons.
Crits: Each thruster occupies 2 critical locations.
Placement: Thrusters may be placed in any location except the head.
Rules: Mechs equiped with the Hyperion Thrust jump jets follow all normal rules regarding mech movement with the following exceptions:
-HJJs generates 5 heat when not in use.  I.e. if a mech walks or runs, the Hjj's generate 5 heat in addition to the normal mode of movement.
-when jumping the mech generates heat equal to the number of Hjj thrusters + 2.  a mech with 7 thrusters that jumps would generate 9 heat.
-If an Hjj is critically hit it explodes for 3 points of damage and is destroyed (treat as an ammo explosion).  Additionally, if a thruster is rendered unusable (due to a location being destroyed or the thruster being critically hit) the thruster still generates heat when jumping as though it were still active, but provides no MP.
-An Hjj system may be turned off during the end phase of a turn, but doing so prevents the system from being used for the rest of the scenario. 
-A mech shut down does not prevent the Hjj system from shutting down.  the thrusters continue to recycle plasma and produce minute thrust, and the system continues to generate heat.  A shut down unit can not deactivate the Hjj system.

This is an example tech that reduces the weight burden on a LAM while IMO encouraging alternative weapon loadouts other than 10 medium lasers. 

Notice that in the design of this the system is made up of individual thrusters and the crits can be dispersed in the arms, taking the burden off the torso's for crit placement.

Another unique tech Idea:
Compact Actuators
Weight: 2 tons
rules: Actuators take up less space, folding actuators per location 2 slots for the legs and 2 slots for the arms instead of 4 for each limb.  If a location containing actuators is critically hit, both actuators are destroyed.

Also, as has been said before, LAMs should be treated as having partial wing in mech mode, and IMO airmech MP should be based off (jump mp w/partial wing bonus) x 2 for cruising mp.  this way, the numbers remain very similar to what they would be now, but the benefits of partial wing are factored in.

Also, Personally would like to see LAMs that may mount special armor.  I feel that since armor is external (more or less) it's not hard to engineer around that for the conversion process.  but then that's me.  :)

excellent stuff! Plus, I agree with the armor sentiment. Specialty armors should be allowed. It's even in the history of LAMs as in the original 3025 TRO, there was a pilot who got special Star League armor for his LAM.

What are the limits on your Hjj? Is it like iJJ? And my AU is space vikings! But not raiders, lol. I like your a lot though. Mine are more like future space scandinavians who just like to live in peace and have a strong enough military to do it. Mostly. :)

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Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #81 on: 05 September 2012, 21:11:07 »
be careful with the AU equipment as some of us have really "broken" equipment that can be stuffed into mechs and LAMs.

how about these tech modules (note the house that developed them was more advanced than the clans)

SRM launchers that are all streak capable at no extra weight
(streak is just an ammo choice)
srm range 1-3, 4-6, 7-10
streak srm range, 1-6, 7-12, 13-19

endosteel V 1/2 std weight, 1 crit
ferrofibrous X 3 crits 1.37 armor factor multiplier
PB, and XL PB engine series (the XL engines made std engines obsolete for the house except for cost)
PB (Power Boost) series engines plus 0 crits, effective engine rating 1.25 X listed rating weight and crits std
XL PB engines 1.25 rating output 1/2 weight +0 crits

(you can see why I said std engines are obsolete)

FAM engines +1 crit x3 output NOTE seldom used in ground combatant units as the fuel is highly volitile (yes FAM reactors stand for Fusion Anti-Matter Reactors) think the antimatter enhanced reactor from star trek DS9
with their fuel systems ~1% of the fuel load is antimatter.


majesticmoose

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #82 on: 06 September 2012, 12:01:15 »
excellent stuff! Plus, I agree with the armor sentiment. Specialty armors should be allowed. It's even in the history of LAMs as in the original 3025 TRO, there was a pilot who got special Star League armor for his LAM.

What are the limits on your Hjj? Is it like iJJ? And my AU is space vikings! But not raiders, lol. I like your a lot though. Mine are more like future space scandinavians who just like to live in peace and have a strong enough military to do it. Mostly. :)

Well my basic idea was that they were an all or nothing system.  So if you wanted to equip hem you ahd to equip enough of them to reach running MP.  THat being said, I definitely needed to make the addendum that they should only be equipable on Light and medium mechs, and I could see an arguement for making them slightly lighter, but then only equipable on a light mech.

Also, I was thinking a LAM specific cockpit that weighs the same as a small cockpit and utilizes the avionics integrated with normal control systems to reduce the weight on the mech.  the trade off is that a crit on the avionics would basically be treated as a gyro hit on the mech, or something akin to that.

As always CowDragon, glad you like the ideas.  they arte raw, so I would definitely flesh them out before fully approving them as anything other than prototypes.

truetanker

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #83 on: 06 September 2012, 16:36:38 »
Infantry drop pods, I like it. Any ideas on how much cost and weight per infantry man?

May I suggest .25 tons per 1.75 ( 2 ) Troopers as a 7-man Squad = 1 ton. Or a full 28-man Platoon equals 3 tons. (( 2.3 repeating ) or a 30-man for 2.5 )

And costwise? Ballpark 25,000 C-bills per.25 ton pod?

Thoughts?

TT
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Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #84 on: 06 September 2012, 17:21:24 »
May I suggest .25 tons per 1.75 ( 2 ) Troopers as a 7-man Squad = 1 ton. Or a full 28-man Platoon equals 3 tons. (( 2.3 repeating ) or a 30-man for 2.5 )

And costwise? Ballpark 25,000 C-bills per.25 ton pod?

Thoughts?

TT
That comes very close to the official transport weights, so I would add some weight for additional lifesupport and a parachute. So maybe 4 tons for a platoon?



On another subject I have tried to design LAMs with my proposed improved bomb bays and I ran into problems (crit shortage). So I then allowed arms to use these bays, and then the designs worked.   
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majesticmoose

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #85 on: 19 September 2012, 22:11:24 »
Just spit balling more ideas here.

IF the faction was a long lost League colony or scouting expedition, and they had a man power shortage as well as a research shortage, I think that they might focus on improving their electronic capability.  I'm largely thinking lighter weight and better electronics, though not exactly along the C3 route.

The "ferret" TAG device would be enhanced to pierce angel level ECMs, and once locked would stay locked while within LOS.  Possibly with a longer range, 0/6/12/18.

A lighter weight standard cockpit reflecting the refined electronics, and an improved cockpit that mimics the Machina Domini Cockpits without the invasives.  Also, torso mounted cockpits that can be equiped in LAMs (I'm thinking with a Compact core to make room for the Life support).

Artemis V style missile systems, but maybe better thunderbolt style missile delivery, or at minimum Higher yield missile payloads when launched from a hardpoint. 30 or 40 point missiles.

An IS equivalent of Ferro-Lamellar would be good too.

evilauthor

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #86 on: 20 September 2012, 08:46:17 »
If this colony has a manpower shortage, why would they develop mechs at all, never mind LAMs? I can't see such a colony fighting each other except with hand weapons simply because it's so small. So logically they should be fighting an external enemy.

Of course, if they have a manpower shortage, wouldn't they be having trouble just keeping a high tech infrastructure and basic services (food, sanitation, etc) going? How are they going to spare the personnel and resources to R&D advanced military tech?

majesticmoose

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #87 on: 20 September 2012, 11:24:49 »
If this colony has a manpower shortage, why would they develop mechs at all, never mind LAMs? I can't see such a colony fighting each other except with hand weapons simply because it's so small. So logically they should be fighting an external enemy.

Of course, if they have a manpower shortage, wouldn't they be having trouble just keeping a high tech infrastructure and basic services (food, sanitation, etc) going? How are they going to spare the personnel and resources to R&D advanced military tech?

Oh that's all handwaved away with the same magic as all sci-fi. *edit this sentence was meant to be kinda joke-ish, but I forgot the smiley.  Sorry for the omission.  :P)

And I should clarify.  Man power shortage doesn't mean that they are fighting a war. 

Say for instance that a scouting expedition had to crash land on/in a system, and they simply ahve to make due with what resources they have.  Similar to the clans, but with out the dogma and/or the constant aggrassive stance of outside aggressors.

They would ahve the full might of the SL databases behind them, but not nearly a large enough pool of people to creatively develop new techs.

So I figure to conserve resource consumption, more efficient electronics, and multi-purpose unit construction.  If you ahve3 1 unit that can do 3 jobs, then it is more practical then three units that can do one job.  from a manpower stand point.  Say that the per capita resource quantity is high, but the overall production is low because of the significantly diminished population compared to even the post WoR clans. say like 1000k or 250k.  enough to have a functional, productive colony, but not enough to overtake the IS or Clans by any means.

I dunno, just seemed like a decent alternative to a group of people constantly developing bigger and more powerful weapons.  I mean, if a star league base with good LAM tech was cut off in deep deep periphery, they wouldn't necisasarily develop more lethal weapons.  I would think they would refine production, and attempt to increase protective qualities of the units to safeguard accidental deaths.

They could ahve finally built up a decent enough industrial base that new jumpships are produceable.  I'm thinking that they would produce small sized jumpships and maybe even some sort of reletively new warship... not for conquest purposes but as a exploratory carrier vessel.  I doubt it would even mount capital class weapons, just a large number of smaller PPC banks and such.

I think a reduced weight cockpit would be a good start, the TAG upgrade, and the ideas above.  I would really stress no non league tech as far as weapons go, allowing for certain ideas like binary lasers and perhaps the logical conclusions to certain league techs (I'm thinking the ultras, streaks and LB-xs in allthe different varieties, but no RACs, plasma weapons).

A truly free and egaletarian society would be something that actually stands out against the neo0feudalistic nature of the IS and the warrior fascism of the clans. 

but I'm just thinking with my fingers so I'm sure a lot of this could be improved on...
« Last Edit: 21 September 2012, 22:03:54 by majesticmoose »

Belisarius

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #88 on: 21 September 2012, 17:06:22 »
My fear with this is that it's trending very close, conceptually, to that 'story who shall not be named'. A small force with fighters that transform into robots faces a foe with unimaginable power while saving their small civilian population? With lots of very lethal missiles?

Maingunnery

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Re: Land-Air-Mech Factions and their Tech
« Reply #89 on: 21 September 2012, 17:20:28 »
My fear with this is that it's trending very close, conceptually, to that 'story who shall not be named'. A small force with fighters that transform into robots faces a foe with unimaginable power while saving their small civilian population? With lots of very lethal missiles?
You may say Macross if you want to.
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