TRO 3145--Federated Suns

[JadeHellbringer]

We have yet to see the AoD King Crab as well. Ether way, it will be interesting to see what we get after the Templar III and the others.

Edit: forgot that the King Crab was built by Star Corp, not Defiance. 

Also worth noting: We already have it. The King Crab's DA versions (including mention of the cosmetic changes) was in TRO:3050U.

[Istal_Devalis]

But no TRO entry here the artwork matched the figure yet. Me wants.

[sillybrit]

PAB-28 - @ sillybrit: I defy you to find a more game board combat-ready...ahem...PA(L) :D

Challenge accepted...

Hurricane P17.  :)

OK, so I cheated by chosing a mixed tech experimental model, but it fits, so it sits. LOL

[Wrangler]

Is it me or does the Prey Seeker resembled the MWDA Salvage Mech?  This image is from Brickcommander since i wasn't able find a fig picture.

[Nerroth]

This one?

[Stormlion1]

I think I'm feeling buyers remorse now. I look at this really cool mechs and all this new tech and think, look at all the bling! Look at all the chrome! Maybe I'm being sentimental, but you would think with all the problems the Federated Suns were having that maybe pulling out the old standby weapon systems instead of the Clan bought weapons might have been a better move for a nation fighting for its life. Or maybe its the entire "Damn, now I have to learn all new rules and stats now!" phase I'm about to enjoy.  ;)

[Aldous]

I think I'm feeling buyers remorse now. I look at this really cool mechs and all this new tech and think, look at all the bling! Look at all the chrome! Maybe I'm being sentimental, but you would think with all the problems the Federated Suns were having that maybe pulling out the old standby weapon systems instead of the Clan bought weapons might have been a better move for a nation fighting for its life. Or maybe its the entire "Damn, now I have to learn all new rules and stats now!" phase I'm about to enjoy.  ;)

Davion makes its own clan lasers.

[SteelRaven]

Consider how many people have been arguing the progression of tech after the Jihad rather than a regression plus the expected proliferation of clan tech after all these years, it would be insane for the Fed Suns to be the only faction not to have it.  Most units still have last years tech and we already know what those old standby weapon systems look like, whole point of the TROs show us what all the shiny new stuff looks like.

[MadCapellan]

Davion makes its own clan lasers.

Exactly.  Also, it's not like all these units were invented in  3145 while the Federated Suns was being invaded.  Most of them have been in production for decades, highlighting the superiority of Davion technical engineering.  There's nothing saying the Enforcer isn't still in production if that's what you want. These are the designs new to the Federated Suns between 3085-3145.  Of course they're going to have the best technology available.

[Istal_Devalis]

Maybe we can finally bring the old 'The IS should be fully producing Clan gear by now!' discussion behind the barn along with a shotgun.

[JadeHellbringer]

Maybe we can finally bring the old 'The IS should be fully producing Clan gear by now!' discussion behind the barn along with a shotgun.

I'm betting it's in line right behind the "TPTB are out to get Davion fans" claims. We may run low on buckshot, this day.

[gyedid]

I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

?

cheers,

Gabe

[Istal_Devalis]

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units..

So you can use them in fights with other big stompy robots, of course!

[MadCapellan]

I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies

Players like having great new 'Mechs, and if quality of individual game units was an indicator of military success the Combine would have imploded decades ago.

--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use

Not building them means you have nothing to defend yourself with, which means they conquer what remains even faster.

--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

I've yet to see a specific countermeasure for shooting further and hitting harder.

[Savage Coyote]

Exactly.  Also, it's not like all these units were invented in  3145 while the Federated Suns was being invaded.  Most of them have been in production for decades, highlighting the superiority of Davion technical engineering.  There's nothing saying the Enforcer isn't still in production if that's what you want. These are the designs new to the Federated Suns between 3085-3145.  Of course they're going to have the best technology available.

This... so much this.  Honestly, I've seen all the TRO write ups from the stat/fluff side (including FWL and Lyran) and I didn't find the units all that bad at all in this TRO, at least not for the "hate" that it's getting.  And then when you combined those what whatever you want to still be in the FedSuns armory from the 3067-post Jihad, I think you still have some nice, viable forces. 

Thats what I'm going with my forces as I go.  Toss in some DA stuff here for my Lyrans while still rocking a 8S Uziel and some normal Fenrirs (for now mind you... going to get a new BA in the near future!  >:D )

[GreekFire]

I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

?

cheers,

Gabe

I only have this to answer:

--Because plot. See: TRO3050, TRO3055, etc. for other examples of factions receiving new units but still losing battles.
--Slight exaggeration here. You might want to look at map again.
--Said AFFS has its own countermeasures, on top of weaponry to counter certain countermeasures.

I hope this clears up some confusion for you.

ps. I read your entire post in Tony the Tiger's voice.

[Aldous]

I'll let Davion have Clan Lasers if Liao can have Clan LRMs.

[Chunga]

I've yet to see a specific countermeasure for shooting further and hitting harder.

coughcoughcoughstealtharmorcoughcoughcough

[SteelRaven]

I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

?

cheers,

Gabe

By that logic, Cap Con, the FRR and the FWL should have given up the ghost the day after they got decimated by a enemy faction.
 

[MadCapellan]

coughcoughcoughstealtharmorcoughcoughcough

Okay, yeah, that does work pretty well on the "shooting further" issue.  Good thing the Vulpes got it, right?

[SteveRestless]

somehow a fedsuns mech with stealth armor still feels wrong to me. Hell, I still havent really fallen in behind the idea of the fed suns using C3.

[BirdofPrey]

I was just thinking, the Prey Seeker is supposed to be modeled after the firemoth.
It can keep the XXL, but it would be much more useful if it were 20 tons and an omni like the firemoth.  Either way, the armament isn't worth that much, but if it were an omni, it would at least be a good BA carrier since the Fed Suns seem to be going heavily towards BA infantry.

[gyedid]

Players like having great new 'Mechs, and if quality of individual game units was an indicator of military success the Combine would have imploded decades ago.

Not building them means you have nothing to defend yourself with, which means they conquer what remains even faster.

That's a point in favour of the AFFS' enemies, not the AFFS itself.

I've yet to see a specific countermeasure for shooting further and hitting harder.

coughcough**hardened armour**coughcough**that other armour the DCMS has that reduces the effectiveness of Davion's beloved ballistic weapons***coughcough**ferro-lamellor armour**coughcoughcough

cheers,

Gabe

[GreekFire]

Sounds like there's an epidemic spreading around. Damn blakists must be on the loose again.

[Aldous]

I always felt Stealth Armor was nerfed by putting it mostly on slow units whereas TC and other Davion Weapons was optimally deployed aka always useful.

So what if your Stealth Archer can fire 2 salvos before Stealth is useless? And even the old fast Stealth Mechs usually can't jump.

Did they finally fix the over-BV'ed problem, at least?

[Kitsune413]

I'm betting it's in line right behind the "TPTB are out to get Davion fans" claims. We may run low on buckshot, this day.

Yeah. Clan nova cat is taking its actual annihilation better than some taking losses in a pair of marches.

Not able to quote a second user easily on my phone. But the federated suns is supposed to be tactically savvy. Ignoring advances like stealth armor and c3 is bad for business. Rotary autocannons can only do so much.

[MadCapellan]

@Gyedid

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.  Are you seriously arguing the Davions shouldn't build new 'Mechs and shouldn't have gotten a 3145 TRO?  You might as well ask Herb to just wipe the Davions out.

I always felt Stealth Armor was nerfed by putting it mostly on slow units whereas TC and other Davion Weapons was optimally deployed aka always useful.

So what if your Stealth Archer can fire 2 salvos before Stealth is useless? And even the old fast Stealth Mechs usually can't jump.

I've mowed through whole lances of 'Mechs with the Pillager.  You'll never here me knocking slow stealth snipers.

Did they finally fix the over-BV'ed problem, at least?

I do believe BV was changed with the last errata to take stealth heat into account.

[Alexander Knight]

I always felt Stealth Armor was nerfed by putting it mostly on slow units whereas TC and other Davion Weapons was optimally deployed aka always useful.

Yes, because TC for a single laser is oh-so-optimal.

[ColBosch]

I am not singling anyone out here, but I find it very interesting how much confirmation bias I'm seeing in this thread. I also find it outright amusing how much of that bias is mutually exclusive.

[Welshman]

I am not singling anyone out here, but I find it very interesting how much confirmation bias I'm seeing in this thread. I also find it outright amusing how much of that bias is mutually exclusive.

This statement's similarity to a statement found in a confusing legal document is very high.

I've got no clue what you just tried to say. Could you parse it down for my simple brain?