Why did the Blood Spirits attack the Vipers?

[Gäiten]

Very unlikely.  Their feud was only going to end with the death of one or the other.

I do not think so.

[tassa_kay]

I do not think so.

Then you'd be wrong.

[rebs]

The Blood Spirits were running afoul of too many other Clans to fly under the radar anymore.  And the Adders do not let things go, as a trait. 

They were obsessed with Absorbing another Clan.  They felt somewhat entitled to the Mongoose Absorption, but that Jags had the fire, so to speak, and were granted the rights to carry it out. The Adders took what they could, according to the text.  It's framed a couple of different ways between the Jags and Adders, and the Adders certainly weren't in the wrong.  But it was the beginning of their ambitions to grow in power. 

Then the botched plot to try to Absorb the Coyotes, leading to the Blood Scandal.  Then the Burrock Absorption came up.  The Blood Spirits interfered with it in a major way, ignoring zell in favor of heavy strikes.  It endangered everything, and the Adders were never going to let it go. 

The Coyotes and Stone Lions turned on the Spirits as well after facing hordes of armed civies on Honor.  The Scorpions were already gone by that point, and the Adders had them finally.  They still could not get an Annihilation vote through the Council, but they got another Absorption.  And we know the rest, Absorption via Orbital Bombardment.  Ironic, in that the Adders turned up their noses at valuable assets, just because they were held by the Blood Spirits and didn't want to waste any more lives of their own warriors to finish them off.  Effective Annihilation. 

The Blood Spirits had no chance, a snowball in any mythical hell has better odds.   

[cold1]

Yeah and Blood Kite or Stooping Hawk factory would be nice, but it would cost a galaxy to get it.

There was solution that went better for the Adders

[Archangel]

They were obsessed with Absorbing another Clan.  They felt somewhat entitled to the Mongoose Absorption, but that Jags had the fire, so to speak, and were granted the rights to carry it out. The Adders took what they could, according to the text.  It's framed a couple of different ways between the Jags and Adders, and the Adders certainly weren't in the wrong.  But it was the beginning of their ambitions to grow in power.

As far as FM:CC (p112-113) is concerned, the Star Adders were simply engaged in a counter-offensive against Clan Mongoose that was wrapping up when the Grand Council granted the Smoke Jaguars' request for a Trial of Absorption of Clan Mongoose.  When the Smoke Jaguars protested that they had been deprived of their full measure of victory by weakening Clan Mongoose, the Grand Council recognized the Star Adders right for retribution against Clan Mongoose for losses they had previously sustained at the hands of Clan Mongoose.

Then the botched plot to try to Absorb the Coyotes, leading to the Blood Scandal.  Then the Burrock Absorption came up.  The Blood Spirits interfered with it in a major way, ignoring zell in favor of heavy strikes.  It endangered everything, and the Adders were never going to let it go. 

Again, where did you get this?  As far as both Field Manuals (FMWC-p42, FMCC-p113)are concerned only the saKhan and a few of his allies were involved.

Ironic, in that the Adders turned up their noses at valuable assets, just because they were held by the Blood Spirits and didn't want to waste any more lives of their own warriors to finish them off.

WoR (p155-156) clearly states that first the Coyotes and Stone Lions stripped what they could from the holdings they captured before withdrawing from the system before the Star Adders arrived.  In turn, the Star Adders spent more than a month hunting and destroying most of the remaining Blood Spirit clusters before packing up as much isorla as they could and withdrawing.  The orbital bombardment began as the Star Adders were withdrawing to their landing zone.

[rebs]

As far as FM:CC (p112-113) is concerned, the Star Adders were simply engaged in a counter-offensive against Clan Mongoose that was wrapping up when the Grand Council granted the Smoke Jaguars' request for a Trial of Absorption of Clan Mongoose.  When the Smoke Jaguars protested that they had been deprived of their full measure of victory by weakening Clan Mongoose, the Grand Council recognized the Star Adders right for retribution against Clan Mongoose for losses they had previously sustained at the hands of Clan Mongoose.

My point was that the Adders took back what they attacked.  FM Crusader Clans says that their attack was launched three days prior to the Grand Council decision, and as I also said, they were not in the wrong.  But they were taking what they wanted. If they were not, then why were they attacking?

Again, where did you get this?  As far as both Field Manuals (FMWC-p42, FMCC-p113)are concerned only the saKhan and a few of his allies were involved.

Of course the text in FM Crusader Clans says Carson Graves acted alone, it is from the Star Adder point of view.  The Coyote section of Warden Clans indicates that Carson Graves was not acting alone. 

Basically, if leadership is involved, leadership right under only the Khan, then to me that signals that there was rumbling within the Star Adder Clan about Absorbing Clan Coyote (or any Clan they could, likely.  Coyote happened to present a target of opportunity)

The alternative is Carson Graves was acting alone.  I just don''t think that's the case.  He had to be part of a conspiracy for a plan that large. 

WoR (p155-156) clearly states that first the Coyotes and Stone Lions stripped what they could from the holdings they captured before withdrawing from the system before the Star Adders arrived.  In turn, the Star Adders spent more than a month hunting and destroying most of the remaining Blood Spirit clusters before packing up as much isorla as they could and withdrawing.  The orbital bombardment began as the Star Adders were withdrawing to their landing zone.

You are talking about the Coyotes and Stone Lions on Honor.  And yes they certainly did take whatever moveable assets survived the fighting there. 

I was referring to Haven, where the Spirits withdrew to, taking what thy could from Honor.  This is from page 155 -156 too. 

[Archangel]

My point was that the Adders took back what they attacked.  FM Crusader Clans says that their attack was launched three days prior to the Grand Council decision, and as I also said, they were not in the wrong.  But they were taking what they wanted. If they were not, then why were they attacking?

And my point is that it in no way shows that they had any interest in absorbing Clan Mongoose.  For all we know they were simply reclaiming enclaves previously lost.

Of course the text in FM Crusader Clans says Carson Graves acted alone, it is from the Star Adder point of view.  The Coyote section of Warden Clans indicates that Carson Graves was not acting alone. 

Basically, if leadership is involved, leadership right under only the Khan, then to me that signals that there was rumbling within the Star Adder Clan about Absorbing Clan Coyote (or any Clan they could, likely.  Coyote happened to present a target of opportunity)

There are always rumbling about absorbing this Clan, annihilating that Clan, doesn't mean that the Clan as a whole is interested or that the Khans will act on one or any of them.  Do you really think that the Star Adders were interested in absorbing the Coyotes the way Graves was planning?

You are talking about the Coyotes and Stone Lions on Honor.  And yes they certainly did take whatever moveable assets survived the fighting there. 

I was referring to Haven, where the Spirits withdrew to, taking what thy could from Honor.  This is from page 155 -156 too.

No I am talking about the Coyotes and Stone Lions on Haven.  Neither the Coyotes nor the Stone Lions landed on Honor.  By the time the Coyotes and Stone Lions arrived Honor had already suffered its catastrophic earthquake and neither Clan was interested in seizing territory on a planet that could fall apart at any time.

You stated that the Star Adders were obsessed with absorbing another Clan, my main point is that they were no more obsessed with absorbing another Clan than any other Clan.  If they were obsessed with anything then, like any Clan, they were obsessed with increasing their Clan's strength be it through capturing a single enclave, a planet or an entire Clan.  Sure they would have been glad to absorb Clan Coyote but more due to the fact that it would have increased their Clan's strength and brought them closer to becoming ilClan not because they cared particularly about absorbing the Coyotes.

[tassa_kay]

And my point is that it in no way shows that they had any interest in absorbing Clan Mongoose.  For all we know they were simply reclaiming enclaves previously lost.

This I agree with. The Adders would've made a case for Absorption when the Mongooses put their necks on the chopping block.

There are always rumbling about absorbing this Clan, annihilating that Clan, doesn't mean that the Clan as a whole is interested or that the Khans will act on one or any of them.  Do you really think that the Star Adders were interested in absorbing the Coyotes the way Graves was planning?

Do you really think the Star Adders would turn down the Absorption if they'd been able to make it happen? Would any Clan?

You stated that the Star Adders were obsessed with absorbing another Clan, my main point is that they were no more obsessed with absorbing another Clan than any other Clan.  If they were obsessed with anything then, like any Clan, they were obsessed with increasing their Clan's strength be it through capturing a single enclave, a planet or an entire Clan.  Sure they would have been glad to absorb Clan Coyote but more due to the fact that it would have increased their Clan's strength and brought them closer to becoming ilClan not because they cared particularly about absorbing the Coyotes.

Yeah, because the Adder antipathy for Clan Coyote stems from the Coyotes' reaction to the Blood Scandal. The Adders offered their surkairede, but the Coyotes wanted more and the Adders denied them that. They can point to the matter and call it resolved, and thus make the Coyotes look bad. Graves' gambit was plausibly deniable but also would've netted an enormous prize had it been successful and I don't think the Adders would've refused this.

But again, none of the other Clans would've turned it down, either. That's the sort of hyper-Darwinist pressure-cooker that Nicholas Kerensky created out of the SLDF, and the Star Adders are no exception to this.

[rebs]

And my point is that it in no way shows that they had any interest in absorbing Clan Mongoose.  For all we know they were simply reclaiming enclaves previously lost.

If the interest in Absorbing Clan Mongoose was not there, this is the first time the Star Adders were involved with the events of an Absorption.  It's just my opinion that here is where the seeds were planted. 

There are always rumbling about absorbing this Clan, annihilating that Clan, doesn't mean that the Clan as a whole is interested or that the Khans will act on one or any of them.  Do you really think that the Star Adders were interested in absorbing the Coyotes the way Graves was planning?

No other Clan is involved with or linked to so many Trials of Absorption, whether directly, as in most cases latter in their history, or in a tertiary manner as with the Mongoose Absorption.  I do think that there was a small but strong minority within the political makeup of the Star Adders that were plotting exactly these kinds of things for a long time.  Carson Graves was an early Crusader, obviously.  It stands to reason he was acting in accord with his political beliefs.

The Adders have a thing for making plans long in advance, after all.  This is still my opinion, but it has a strong base in the text.

By contrast, the Adders and Burrocks were indicated to work closely together, exploring and profiting from the exploration of the Kerensky Custer.  Yet when evidence came to light of the Burrocks dealings with the Dark Caste and Bandits, the Adder Khan Cassius N'Buta had no compunction about demanding the right of absorption.  The odds are very good I figure that the Adders even had a plan shelved for such an occasion.  Possibly one for each Clan that neighbored them.  Just my opinion.

No I am talking about the Coyotes and Stone Lions on Haven.  Neither the Coyotes nor the Stone Lions landed on Honor.  By the time the Coyotes and Stone Lions arrived Honor had already suffered its catastrophic earthquake and neither Clan was interested in seizing territory on a planet that could fall apart at any time.

You stated that the Star Adders were obsessed with absorbing another Clan, my main point is that they were no more obsessed with absorbing another Clan than any other Clan.  If they were obsessed with anything then, like any Clan, they were obsessed with increasing their Clan's strength be it through capturing a single enclave, a planet or an entire Clan.  Sure they would have been glad to absorb Clan Coyote but more due to the fact that it would have increased their Clan's strength and brought them closer to becoming ilClan not because they cared particularly about absorbing the Coyotes.

OK about Honor and Haven and where exactly the other Home Clans turned against the Blood Spirits, as it was in the same star system. I misremembered that bit.  But that is besides the point.

Taking a step back for a second: The Adders were involved with a so-called Annihilation of the Steel Vipers.  We all know it to be a bizarre proceeding, as it was open to all Clans.  But even though the Grand Council called it an Annihilation, the Andrews Bloodline screams "ABSORPTION!".  The other Bloodlines do as well.

Then the Spirit Annihilation/Absorption happened after the events discussed.

Basically, if "obsessed" is too strong of a word, perhaps fixated works better. 

No other Clan is linked to or involved with so many Absorptions.  There are several Clans that are never involved with anything of the sort.  The Star Adders seem to have recognized Absorption as the fastest way to grow amongst the Clans, and have acted on it more than any other Clan.  They also seem to always be ready for anything, but especially for Trials of Absorption.  Perhaps that is part of how disgustingly perfect they are perceived to be by some players. 


 

[cold1]

The Adders seem to have contingency plans for everything.

This is why I'm scared when I hear them described as smugly ambitious.  As soon as they think they are perfect and stop worrying about what may come, then they will fall.

[Gaiiten]

The Adders have understood that they need other Clans to compete with, giving them honorable adverseries, who follow Clan rules.
That competition in low-level warfare and both civilian and military development might be the right impetus for a new Golden Age.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Golden Age would be a stretch.

The post-WoR Homeworlds is a post-apocalyptic place, and with the scientists suffering a massive depopulation picking themselves up from the ashes will take a long time.

[Gäiten]

A spartanic warrior society does not need a paradise for living. And giving the descriptions in WoR Suppl. they seem to be industrial powerhouses again.
As Cold1 wrote, there seem to be joint researchement efforts and programs.

To the lack of scientists, while many died, this should have broken free whole ranks and new blood unencumbered by old coterie and restart the whole business of researchment anew.

If the warrior caste might even respect the work of the scientists more and shows them proper respect (in limits) the scientists might be more motivated than ever.

[Kitsune413]

Do you really think the Star Adders would turn down the Absorption if they'd been able to make it happen? Would any Clan?

Clan Sea Fox actually. p59 of Warden Clans. Ebbing Enthusiasm.

I do not know of any other clans that would turn down an opportunity to strengthen themselves though.

[rebs]

That is most certainly true, every Clan would love such an opportunity.  But not all Clans can take advantage of the opportunity, no matter how much they want to do it.  Absorptions can be draining.  The Smoke Jaguars were said to have asked for the same right of protection while they recovered from it (and were allowed to get more warships from a cache, because the Smoke Jaguars need to have warships, right? for police actions and stuff...) that the Wolves once were allowed after their Absorption of the Widowmakers.  And that's just one Absorption, not many.

[Akalabeth]

Yeah, more I read of War of Reaving the more I don't particularly care for it to be honest. Some of the little things just don't make sense. One example is a Goliath vs Cloud Cobra battle, where the Scorpions held them off on two occasions and then in one instance a shot from a mech takes down a bridge and with it takes half of some Cloud Cobra formation. And then what happens? The cloud cobras trounce the scorpions.

Maybe my mind works differently, but if half of a formation just fell to their deaths I would think that would hurt my chances of trouncing the enemy, not ensuring that it happens.


As for the Adders, well the ironic thing is that in fighting the Blood Spirits they became them. I've read two entries now where the Adders armed their civilian populations. And also the Spirits became the Adders when they bombarded a couple of cities from orbit.

Dunno, but personally it's hard to stomach a lot of what I'm reading. I try finishing the book but there's always something else which makes me put it down. The fact that the Spirits perish and the Adders survive is fine given their relative strength prior to the WoR, but the road leading to final destruction or survival is a sketchy one at best.

[rebs]

Not everyone agrees, certainly.  And we aren't required to, of course. 

I've brought it up before, too, the hypocrisy of it on part of the Adders.  That they can cite Clan Law when they need to, stress honor and the words of Kerensky with the best of them, working the Council better than the Mongooses.  They can take military advantage of Clan Law, what with all of their Absorptions mentioned ad nauseum (sorry) and do it to impressive effect.  And the Adders do all of those things that their enemies do, or that they accuse them of doing.  Back to the hypocrisy of it all. 

It just has to be intentional.  And now we have confirmation that the Adders are smugly ambitious.   I'm glad I've been reading them well.   

[Akalabeth]

The thing that's always bothered me about the clans in general is that their history is very thin. Even in this discussion for example, people talk about the Adders as if they are the same clan from the Mongoose absorption right up to the War of Reaving but that was hundreds of year of history with on average far more generations than the Inner Sphere.

Compare it to something like Comstar, where there are dramatic shifts in policy from one Primus to another. From a corporation to a theocractic society, to Instellar Ops, to assassinating scientists to the ComGuards to schism and subsequent Jihad etcetera.

But with the clans they define the relationship between Clan A and Clan B by some incident which happened 120 years ago or whatnot. I'm not sure that having a clan take a consistent, easily-definable stance over hundreds of years makes a huge amount of sense. Maybe some clans sure, where tradition comes in, but other clans would change and evolve more easily. Unfortunately for the clans the only ones that really changed were the invaders, the homeworlds remained static until the War of Reaving when any pretext of history seemed to fly out the window.

It still baffles me for example that the Blood Spirits and Fire Mandrills would not show more cooperation during the period. They were some of the few allies the two clans had and yet I don't see any reflection of that in WoR.

But whatever. It is what it is and it's not going to change (much like the Star Wars prequels)

[Kitsune413]

While reading through the star adders and blood spirits in crusader clans again one of the things I noticed is that the Star Adders are lead by a badass strategist... who dies almost immediately.

So the idea that this strategic culture he created is going to live on after he is very quickly dead and when strategy is a thought process doesnt make sense to me. At that point they are lead by a sergeant so their being well drilled after that point makes sense.

Maybe he chose all the right people.

[tassa_kay]

Clan Sea Fox actually. p59 of Warden Clans. Ebbing Enthusiasm.

You also have to consider the cost of an Absorption, which I'm certain everyone's favorite Clan coin-counters would do. The Sharks may not have had the military strength to be able to pull off an Absorption, not without gutting themselves in the process and leaving themselves open to Absorption themselves.

[rebs]

So the idea that this strategic culture he created is going to live on after he is very quickly dead and when strategy is a thought process doesnt make sense to me. At that point they are lead by a sergeant so their being well drilled after that point makes sense.

Maybe he chose all the right people.

I think he most certainly did choose his people well.  He knew who he could count on, apparently.  And don't forget, the Star Adders literally lived on his plans for hundreds of years, and the text says as much, all told.  Historical: Operation Klondike does him a good amount of justice. 

[tassa_kay]

I think he most certainly did choose his people well.  He knew who he could count on, apparently.  And don't forget, they literally lived on his plans for hundreds of years, and the text says as much, all told.  Historical: Operation Klondike does him a good amount of justice.

It's stretching the idea of believability a bit that Truscott could have accurately planned for the Clans of Kerensky.

[rebs]

It's stretching the idea of believability a bit that Truscott could have accurately planned for the Clans of Kerensky.

True.  His plans mostly seemed to revolve around exploiting the resources of the Kerensky Cluster to their greatest advantage, and building up infrastructure, as well as the basic structure of the Clan and their own inner workings.

The leaders of each era were who had to handle the rest of the Clans. 

[ArkRoyalRavager]

A spartanic warrior society does not need a paradise for living. And giving the descriptions in WoR Suppl. they seem to be industrial powerhouses again.
As Cold1 wrote, there seem to be joint researchement efforts and programs.

To the lack of scientists, while many died, this should have broken free whole ranks and new blood unencumbered by old coterie and restart the whole business of researchment anew.

If the warrior caste might even respect the work of the scientists more and shows them proper respect (in limits) the scientists might be more motivated than ever.

The descriptions in WoR Suppl. shows many designs abandoned by the Homeworld Clans. And these are just Omnis. None of the Homies except the Lions can even be bothered with armor forces and increased Protomech production is just another way of saying "My Clan doesn't have a sufficient number of Mech factories and are poor in resource extraction so we are focusing on something else".

The older generation is there to guide the newer ones. With virtually the entire old guard gone, there's nobody to guide the new scientists or even school them on finer points of specific scientific subjects. They have to develop new protocols and processes just to get things done and everyone is focusing on their breeding programs first, so I doubt these scientists would be more excited than the previous bunch. Example: Clan Jade Falcon. The book rightly points out that Annihilating over 90% of their scientists have left their Clan in a scientific desert, and what we see in the Dark Age is a clear legacy of this.

[Gaiiten]

The older generation is there to guide the newer ones. With virtually the entire old guard gone, there's nobody to guide the new scientists or even school them on finer points of specific scientific subjects. They have to develop new protocols and processes just to get things done and everyone is focusing on their breeding programs first, so I doubt these scientists would be more excited than the previous bunch. Example: Clan Jade Falcon. The book rightly points out that Annihilating over 90% of their scientists have left their Clan in a scientific desert, and what we see in the Dark Age is a clear legacy of this.

Generally correct, but the Homeclans did not kill all their scientists. Many are left and, imho, recruiting actively new ones among the technican caste could be a very promising way to get new scientists.

And as in WoR is written, the real new researchment among the Clans only begun after Tukkayyid. Before they did almost no basic researchment in many scientific areas besides genetics. For the scientists this new beginning was like they had to start from a scratch. Till the WoR there were 15 years, you may think what might be possible what a motivated scientist caste could achieve from 3090 till 3145 ...

That the Clans have ever been numerically far inferior to the IS, but have had a qualitative advantage, imho, has been something I like very much ingame.

[GhostBear]

It still baffles me for example that the Blood Spirits and Fire Mandrills would not show more cooperation during the period. They were some of the few allies the two clans had and yet I don't see any reflection of that in WoR.

There were several instances early on of cooperation between the Spirits and a few of the kindraa, but the Mandrills were already in a fractured state at the start of the Wars. They didn't have the leadership, strength, or cohesion to survive much into it. They simply broke apart completely after Sainze was destroyed and faded into obscurity....an ending that befitted that Clan completely.

But with the clans they define the relationship between Clan A and Clan B by some incident which happened 120 years ago or whatnot. I'm not sure that having a clan take a consistent, easily-definable stance over hundreds of years makes a huge amount of sense. Maybe some clans sure, where tradition comes in, but other clans would change and evolve more easily. Unfortunately for the clans the only ones that really changed were the invaders, the homeworlds remained static until the War of Reaving when any pretext of history seemed to fly out the window.

The Invaders changed because they reconnected with the Inner Sphere; the Homeworlds did not, and due to the Clan way of life, either refused to believe the Invaders' descriptions or warily questioned it. As I saw it, the Homeworlds were in a state of stagnant culture; only a seismic cataclysmic event (or series therein) would bring about change.

The friction created by the two cultural shifts - one in progress and adaptation, the other in stagnation and dogmatism - is what brought everything to a head after 3068. There was no way the Homeworlds could remain as they were as long as the Invaders kept a foot in the door. Rather than embrace the changes, they chose the other option - rejection - and it ignited the waiting firestorm.

WoR is not about a bunch of Clans fighting; it's about the fall of Clan culture and Kerensky's flawed vision. In a perfect vacuum, it would work. But in the Battletech story...this ain't no vacuum. As such, the Clans were a machine that tore itself apart from the inside-out. WoR is the chronicle of that explosion.

[wantec]

Yeah, more I read of War of Reaving the more I don't particularly care for it to be honest. Some of the little things just don't make sense. One example is a Goliath vs Cloud Cobra battle, where the Scorpions held them off on two occasions and then in one instance a shot from a mech takes down a bridge and with it takes half of some Cloud Cobra formation. And then what happens? The cloud cobras trounce the scorpions.

Maybe my mind works differently, but if half of a formation just fell to their deaths I would think that would hurt my chances of trouncing the enemy, not ensuring that it happens.

I'm not sure what example you're speaking of, and don't have the time on my lunch break to look it up right now, but in general Clan combat has plenty of avenues to make this happen.

If this battle is being fought under Zell, the bridge collapsing could motivate the Cobras to break Zell (if it wasn't already broken) and start massing fire, enabling them to win more quickly. Even without Zell, seeing so many of your clansmen taken out with a cowardly attack (shooting out the bridge instead of attacking directly after 2 previous direct attacks had failed) would have enraged the Cobras to the point where they did not care what further damage or losses they took, so long as they won. Also, a sudden change in tactics (all-out attack after holding position for a while) could have caught the Scorpions out of position to be able to stop a concentrated attack from the Cobras , even with superior numbers. And lastly, if the Cobras had bid down their forces initially, they could have called in the remainder of their force, deciding that winning was more important than the loss of honor for calling in more forces.

The descriptions in WoR Suppl. shows many designs abandoned by the Homeworld Clans. And these are just Omnis. None of the Homies except the Lions can even be bothered with armor forces and increased Protomech production is just another way of saying "My Clan doesn't have a sufficient number of Mech factories and are poor in resource extraction so we are focusing on something else".

Each of the abandoned/no longer produced mechs had a specific explanation given for why that happened. In some cases it was the taint of the original designing Clan. For others the factories were all destroyed. And in the waste not nature of the Clans, mechs that duplicated the functionality of other mechs sometimes went out of production to not waste resources.

I'm sure Ben and Paul will back me up on this, but all Clans, even the homeworld Clans, all of them use vehicles in their touman. For most Clans, vehicles are only used in the second line forces or as place holders in front line forces when there aren't enough mechs.

[cold1]

@Ghostbear, if the Homeworld clans rejected Kerensky's vision, would you say they now follow N'buta's vision?

[cold1]

On the point about out of production designs, we still have no clue what Battlemechs are in production along with omnis.
Theoretically, the Stone Lions have a Stone Rhino plant.  Do they keep making them?  Did they convert it to make Blood Asps?  We don't have a level of detail to really say what the industrial capabilities of the homeworlds are in 3090.  Not beyond less than 3060 at least.

[GhostBear]

@Ghostbear, if the Homeworld clans rejected Kerensky's vision, would you say they now follow N'buta's vision?

Never said they rejected Kerensky's vision.

The 'rejection' I was referring to was rejecting the Invader Clans from their safe little universe.