Author Topic: Dragon II preview  (Read 26154 times)

mdauben

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #30 on: 15 May 2014, 09:04:38 »
Definitely need to pick up at least a couple of these.   O0
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Dragon41673

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #31 on: 15 May 2014, 10:06:29 »
You've hit the biggest part of it already. Try to imagine a task where you're expected to:
A) copy something exactly that can't be copied exactly.
B) re-create it exactly when viewed from multiple angles while only having one angle to work from.
C) sometimes use multiple sources that conflict - again, matching them exactly.
D) not copy it exactly where its "bad" in someone else's opinion.
E) Make it in as few pieces as possible while making it as flexible as possible.
F) not make it too stiff, whatever that means.
G) not make it too dynamic, whatever that means.
H) make it to two different scales at the same time to please everyone.
I) include extras to please more people.
J) absolutely don't compromise anything to please more people.
K) do it all down to the millimeter.
L) have it molded and cast, which can mess with proportions even if you've navigated all the previous requirements well.

Sounds easy, right?

Psycho,

I sincerely hope you did not sculpt this, because of the ones I know you've done...have been really near 100% accurate if not completely accurate. Take for instance your work on the No-Dachi NDA-3X from the XTRO set...holy crap is that beautiful & FAITHFUL to the art.

I completely agree with you on your points, you cannot please everyone & there has to be some compromises done, but I really think it should have been closer to the art with MUCH less deviation. I know there are things that go on behind the scenes, either TPTB or IWM tell sculptors that they "must do this" even if it deviates from the art...which is sad because it also puts the sculptor in a bad position of having to complete the work that even they may not agree with.

We have this beautiful art work to look at, then we get a miniature that is far enough "off" from the art, that it becomes severely disappointing. It seems like lately, with the attempts to keep certain sculpts like the Atlas III as close to the MWDA sculpt as possible, it's thrown us for a loop because it seems...at least to us that aren't in the know...short cuts are being made and that is making a lot of people very unhappy, especially at the prices we are paying for these miniature.

While the mini in & of itself, is nice...it's just seems off to me, even more so than the art in the book when you compare the mini to the Dragon II on the cover of the TRO (especially the cockpit & windows of it). Once I get them in stock for my online store, I will take a closer look at it, and maybe it will look different...but I have a feeling I will still be disappointed.

As far as the extra missile box, THANK YOU to whomever sculpted that. I know, from IWM's own words, that extra bits cost more money...but it would be REALLY nice if we could get more parts like that for upcoming minis.

This is a boat that was COMPLETELY missed with the release of the Warwolf. How easy would it have been to make the Heavy Lasers for that variant? Or covers for the ATM boxes? Yeah, sure, I can handle the ATM covers with other parts...but the Heavy Lasers??? Come on!

To whomever reads this, and is a sculptor for IWM...and ESPECIALLY with the upcoming Omni mechs...PLEASE for the love of all Battletech....include more variant parts.
« Last Edit: 15 May 2014, 10:08:56 by Dragon41673 »
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Weirdo

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #32 on: 15 May 2014, 10:19:13 »
*tries to see where the mini deviates from the art*

*tries again*

*tries for a third time*

*gives up after eyes start bleeding*
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Klat

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #33 on: 15 May 2014, 10:24:04 »
*tries to see where the mini deviates from the art*

*tries again*

*tries for a third time*

*gives up after eyes start bleeding*

I can look at the mini and know what it is; that's plenty good to me. Really I don't see how it's that different either. I can tell it's not an exact copy of the art, but it doesn't look as "off" to me as it seems to for others.

Is the pose messing with people? It seems to me that it's somewhat hunched over but that's more about assembly than sculpt.
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #34 on: 15 May 2014, 10:34:00 »
That seems to be the big thing to me too. The mini is leaning forward, but people seems to be judging it as if that were it's parade-upright orientation like the art.
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Dragon41673

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #35 on: 15 May 2014, 10:49:43 »
That seems to be the big thing to me too. The mini is leaning forward, but people seems to be judging it as if that were it's parade-upright orientation like the art.

No, I'm actually trying to take in to account the angle of it. I will wait to have it in my online store before passing any more judgement...but the cockpit & chest braces are definitely off.
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Wikkid

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #36 on: 15 May 2014, 12:13:27 »
How much is this supposed to weigh?

Scrap that just wiki'd it.

65 tonner? So this is 10mm scale?
« Last Edit: 15 May 2014, 12:15:38 by Wikkid »
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #37 on: 15 May 2014, 12:48:04 »
 Jal did a great work painting it and it is a great thing to have this kind of previews. Very cool. 
 
  Hmm.. the miniature has issues. The cockpit and some details near the shoulders are not perfect. However, it is nothing that cannot be solved with a filler and some plasticard. The extra bits and the chance for building a 3025 Dragon are awesome things. I remember the time when I reposed a dragon (not the scaled one, try to use the filler with this one and you will know living hell) and this is an improvement. A big one.  Overall, I'm satisfied. Very satisfied.
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invallid effort

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #38 on: 15 May 2014, 14:23:46 »
You've hit the biggest part of it already. Try to imagine a task where you're expected to:
A) copy something exactly that can't be copied exactly.
B) re-create it exactly when viewed from multiple angles while only having one angle to work from.
C) sometimes use multiple sources that conflict - again, matching them exactly.
D) not copy it exactly where its "bad" in someone else's opinion.
E) Make it in as few pieces as possible while making it as flexible as possible.
F) not make it too stiff, whatever that means.
G) not make it too dynamic, whatever that means.
H) make it to two different scales at the same time to please everyone.
I) include extras to please more people.
J) absolutely don't compromise anything to please more people.
K) do it all down to the millimeter.
L) have it molded and cast, which can mess with proportions even if you've navigated all the previous requirements well.

Sounds easy, right?

 If only this would fit as a signature  ;D ....that being said this is a very cool mini, I may even start a kurita lance now with all the goodness coming out
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SteelWarrior

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #39 on: 15 May 2014, 14:32:44 »
*tries to see where the mini deviates from the art*

*tries again*

*tries for a third time*

*gives up after eyes start bleeding*

^^  Pretty much sums up my first post.

The mech is bent over so you miss a lot of the chest detailing that the art shows.  Also if you look really close to the cockpit you can see the tro art detailing is there (paneling lines, etc), but the wash isnt strong enough there to make it show up better.  The only part that looks off to me is the chest support struts seem larger.
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SteelRaven

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #40 on: 15 May 2014, 15:15:21 »
OK, people are becoming comically overly critical of the mini.

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jimdigris

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #41 on: 15 May 2014, 15:26:03 »
 O0

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #42 on: 15 May 2014, 15:26:50 »
Is this mini 100% accurate to the art?  Probably not?  Does that matter?  Not to me.  It looks fantastic, and on top of that it means I can make a dynamic-looking Dragon without having to break out the knives and putty.
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Psycho

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #43 on: 15 May 2014, 15:35:29 »
If only this would fit as a signature  ;D ....that being said this is a very cool mini, I may even start a kurita lance now with all the goodness coming out

Wait until GenCon...

Psycho,

<snip>

Just pointing out some of the things that can go wrong along the way.

Dragon41673

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #44 on: 15 May 2014, 15:53:02 »
Wait until GenCon...

Just pointing out some of the things that can go wrong along the way.

No problem, I appreciate & respect your insight in to the matters since you sculpt for them.
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Gromik

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #45 on: 15 May 2014, 15:57:16 »
Wait until GenCon...

Wait.  What's coming out?!?  How much money do I need to set aside for awesomeness?  Is it Kurita-centric or all factions?   :D

Dragon41673

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #46 on: 15 May 2014, 16:01:41 »
Wait.  What's coming out?!?  How much money do I need to set aside for awesomeness?  Is it Kurita-centric or all factions?   :D

I believe he's referring to a very LARGE miniature that will be coming out! lol  :D
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IAMCLANWOLF

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #47 on: 15 May 2014, 16:10:11 »
I believe he's referring to a very LARGE miniature that will be coming out! lol  :D

Let's just say...while you are correct, you are also wrong. ^-^

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #48 on: 15 May 2014, 16:10:54 »
Pardon the impending stupid question, but am I understanding Jal's original post correctly? I could use this as a 3145 or as an original primitive like?

Cause, I honestly can't decide where I want to go next. So having one that will look right in either is good for me.  :)

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #49 on: 15 May 2014, 16:42:05 »
What he is saying is that it comes with the parts necessary to make it either the 3145 Dragon II or the original Dragon DRG-1N. It is up to you as to which configuration you want to make it. I will probably buy one to make it into the original DRG-1N since I wasn't a big fan of the original art, but liked the MWO art. However, it's not high on my priority list and before I do so, I would like to see one assembled as the DRG-1N.
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #50 on: 15 May 2014, 17:00:58 »
Laughably huge = Bad.

Proportions/details off = Bad.

Multi-parts/poseablilty = Good.

Extra part for variant = Awesome.



At least the legs are the same size/shape on this one.

You've hit the biggest part of it already. Try to imagine a task where you're expected to:
A) copy something exactly that can't be copied exactly.
B) re-create it exactly when viewed from multiple angles while only having one angle to work from.
C) sometimes use multiple sources that conflict - again, matching them exactly.
D) not copy it exactly where its "bad" in someone else's opinion.
E) Make it in as few pieces as possible while making it as flexible as possible.
F) not make it too stiff, whatever that means.
G) not make it too dynamic, whatever that means.
H) make it to two different scales at the same time to please everyone.
I) include extras to please more people.
J) absolutely don't compromise anything to please more people.
K) do it all down to the millimeter.
L) have it molded and cast, which can mess with proportions even if you've navigated all the previous requirements well.

Sounds easy, right?

Yep, for some sculptors; lots of examples from the past 20+ years for you to consult.  Some of them even did it with artwork that wasn't as clear as the Dragon II.   :o

*tries to see where the mini deviates from the art*

*tries again*

*tries for a third time*

*gives up after eyes start bleeding*

Your trying too hard or doing it wrong.  Obvious where things are off. 

OK, people are becoming comically overly critical of the mini.

Same with those criticizing those who critiqued the mini.  Funny how that works... ;D


Despite the errors (obvious to some) I think it looks pretty cool.  Not accurate, but cool.  Definitely going to be some interesting posts of this mini in the near future.  Look forward to them.


How much is this going to cost?

Jal, nice work on the mini and thank you for taking the time to post the pictures, especially the parts breakout and comparison shot with the original Dragon.  Time consuming and probably a bit of a PITA, but it is very appreciated! 

Do you think there would be a means of using magnets to swith between the two variants?

Any reason for choosing the 7th Ghost? 

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #51 on: 15 May 2014, 17:28:17 »
Also if you look really close to the cockpit you can see the tro art detailing is there (paneling lines, etc), but the wash isnt strong enough there to make it show up better. 

 ???  What wash is that?  If you're wondering about cockpit details, the windows are very deeply recessed. 

Pardon the impending stupid question, but am I understanding Jal's original post correctly? I could use this as a 3145 or as an original primitive like?

That is correct.  You can either place the Arrow IV on the back for the Dragon II, or use the chest "nosecone" with the LRM to make the original.  You can see the LRM piece in my parts breakdown shot, off to the right.  It's not a good pic, but that piece is very long, proving the perfect snout.

Quote
Jal, nice work on the mini and thank you for taking the time to post the pictures, especially the parts breakout and comparison shot with the original Dragon.  Time consuming and probably a bit of a PITA, but it is very appreciated! Do you think there would be a means of using magnets to swith between the two variants?

This, unfortunately, can't be done because of the way the cockpit sits. In the -1N mode, it sits on top of the LRM nosecone and at a slightly different angle, instead of flat on the chest as it is now.  You'd need to be very, very gdod with a drill and your magnet placement.



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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #52 on: 15 May 2014, 18:01:40 »
Let's just say...while you are correct, you are also wrong. ^-^

LOL yeah, I know, I talk to Mike & Melissa at IWM about upcoming stuff since I run an online site for miniatures. Sometimes what they say is not to be released, but other times...when it's closer... >:D
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #53 on: 15 May 2014, 18:16:40 »
I would have preferred to see an upright version of this because it does feel sort of wrong but that really might be the angle. But even if it deviates from the art, it's still a decent looking mech.

And of course your painting is amazing as always, but I guess you already know that  O0

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #54 on: 15 May 2014, 18:55:15 »
I like it a lot, and it is very cool to have the extra parts. I plan on trying to magnetize it so I can use it as either a Grand Dragon or Dragon II. O0
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #55 on: 15 May 2014, 19:49:37 »
Damn. Because I don't have enough Dragons in my inventory...

I'll have to get at least one...
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #56 on: 15 May 2014, 19:52:53 »
I think the kurita surprise will be the Hatamoto's larger, more bad ass older brother that we say renders of recently....

Lol Jal, my bad for assuming you used a wash :)
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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #57 on: 15 May 2014, 23:35:57 »
2 words GIVE ME!  I personally can care less artwork and how the mini came out. I think the artwork looks stupid but the mini looks fine. I will order 2 at least

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #58 on: 16 May 2014, 02:05:07 »
Then you will love the extra bit which allows you to turn this new Dragon II into a Dragon - the snout with the LRM launcher. Add this part, leave off the Arrow launcher and you have a brand new Dragon :)

Oh! Sweet  :))

That's great news. Are there any pics of it floating around?
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Corrinald

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Re: Dragon II preview
« Reply #59 on: 16 May 2014, 13:16:46 »
Very cool idea to include with it parts to build an original Dragon.  I look forward to getting a couple for that very purpose.  O0